P4P Understanding....

[DG.]

Also IMO the Miguel Cotto who was buzzed repeatedly in his last few fights at 140lbs would have lost to Hatton

If Hatton took the risk he would jhave found out.


As for PBF, it was all about the money and I do not blame him for that, but I know he deal. Hatton is NOT A P4P Top Ten fighter.

[stujones]

So Hagler was never P4P number #1. Sugar Ray Robinson wasn't for years..... no true heavyweight can ever become P4P number #1.

That is the whole purpose of the P4P is to be the best P4P.... a mythical idea on who the best would be if everyone was the same weight. Yes sometimes, when someone moves up from Flyweight and beats a top ten P4Per who is a light middle, then yes he should be considered #1 - especially as he has beaten lots of great fighters in the interim period. However, it is not the ONLY criteria.

The top 3 P4P fighters of 1986 were Chavez, Hagler, Curry - champion in one weight only at the time (I believe).

Holyfield and Tyson were P4P Number 1 because of the manner in which they torw uo the opposition.

As someome mentioned - if you are dominant then you can become Number 1, Hatton never faces the toughest in his own division, Pacman is not even a proven lt welter.

KT was old and inactive.

Castillo SHOT

Laxcano?

Urango?

Wake up, Hatton gets these biog fioghts because he is POPULAR!!


He is not even P4P Top Ten.

Since when was Holyfield ever P4P #1? I have seen your list of recent number #1's and I disagree, there hasn't been many. Roy was P4P #1 from about 1995-2003.... so not sure where you get all these P4Pers. I'm not even convinced Tyson was ever #1, top three yes, but not number #1..... Chavez.

Oscar was never P4P number #1.... and contary to belief, Oscar has never declared himself P4P number #1.

As for this Hatton dodging fighters - I find it really funny.... when will people realise that if he would have fought Corley or Pinto (Cotto was never even on the table - it was Pinto for the WBO title) that Hatton wouldn't have got Tszyu, he would have been out of the IBF rankings.

Urkal for the EBU title? Yes, not a bad fight at the time - but get over it. I'm sure we can forgive Oscar for never fighting Gary Jacobs, we can forgive Barrera for not fighting Andy Morris.

edit: And I will repeat, Cotto vs Hatton was NEVER discussed. Hatton was gunning for the #1 in the devision.

[DG.]

So Hagler was never P4P number #1. Sugar Ray Robinson wasn't for years..... no true heavyweight can ever become P4P number #1.

That is the whole purpose of the P4P is to be the best P4P.... a mythical idea on who the best would be if everyone was the same weight. Yes sometimes, when someone moves up from Flyweight and beats a top ten P4Per who is a light middle, then yes he should be considered #1 - especially as he has beaten lots of great fighters in the interim period. However, it is not the ONLY criteria.

The top 3 P4P fighters of 1986 were Chavez, Hagler, Curry - champion in one weight only at the time (I believe).

Holyfield and Tyson were P4P Number 1 because of the manner in which they torw uo the opposition.

As someome mentioned - if you are dominant then you can become Number 1, Hatton never faces the toughest in his own division, Pacman is not even a proven lt welter.

KT was old and inactive.

Castillo SHOT

Laxcano?

Urango?

Wake up, Hatton gets these biog fioghts because he is POPULAR!!


He is not even P4P Top Ten.

Since when was Holyfield ever P4P #1? I have seen your list of recent number #1's and I disagree, there hasn't been many. Roy was P4P #1 from about 1995-2003.... so not sure where you get all these P4Pers. I'm not even convinced Tyson was ever #1, top three yes, but not number #1..... Chavez.

Oscar was never P4P number #1.... and contary to belief, Oscar has never declared himself P4P number #1.

As for this Hatton dodging fighters - I find it really funny.... when will people realise that if he would have fought Corley or Pinto (Cotto was never even on the table - it was Pinto for the WBO title) that Hatton wouldn't have got Tszyu, he would have been out of the IBF rankings.

Urkal for the EBU title? Yes, not a bad fight at the time - but get over it. I'm sure we can forgive Oscar for never fighting Gary Jacobs, we can forgive Barrera for not fighting Andy Morris.

edit: And I will repeat, Cotto vs Hatton was NEVER discussed. Hatton was gunning for the #1 in the devision.

You are in denial!

[Cannibal]

I find it funny that people always accuse Hatton of ducking, when after Pac, he will have fought the 2 best fighters of his generation... and yes, there is big money in him doing that, but money usually always comes to those good enough to fight with the best.

If you watch the 24/7 in the build up to the Mayweather fight, he definitely wasn't just there for the pay cheque. He really wanted it.

And I believe he actually turned down a DLH fight before the Mayweather fight.

[Captain Hook]

I find it funny that people always accuse Hatton of ducking, when after Pac, he will have fought the 2 best fighters of his generation... and yes, there is big money in him doing that, but money usually always comes to those good enough to fight with the best.

If you watch the 24/7 in the build up to the Mayweather fight, he definitely wasn't just there for the pay cheque. He really wanted it.

And I believe he actually turned down a DLH fight before the Mayweather fight.

ABOUT TIME, someone with a brain (besides me :) posting about Hatton.....the reality.

Pacquaio and Mayweather.....or Junior fecking Witter..........he's not ducking the best, he's ducking the overrated.

[Captain Hook]

PS I would still have Pacquaio to beat him....

[stujones]

I find it funny that people always accuse Hatton of ducking, when after Pac, he will have fought the 2 best fighters of his generation... and yes, there is big money in him doing that, but money usually always comes to those good enough to fight with the best.

If you watch the 24/7 in the build up to the Mayweather fight, he definitely wasn't just there for the pay cheque. He really wanted it.

And I believe he actually turned down a DLH fight before the Mayweather fight.

ABOUT TIME, someone with a brain (besides me :) posting about Hatton.....the reality.

Pacquaio and Mayweather.....or Junior fecking Witter..........he's not ducking the best, he's ducking the overrated.

Yes, Tszyu, Castillo, Mayweather, Pacquiao - and people moan about Witter, Corley!, and Urkal.

Rediculous.Imagine if Calzaghe fought Woods and Froch and not Kessler, Lacy - would people be happier?

[DG.]

Cherry Picking does not a great fighter make.

Hatton beating Pacman makes him No 1 P4P?

Margarito
Bradley
Mosley
Judah
Clottey

Would all beat him., so how the hell is he P4P even top 10?

Oh yes,e beat legends in Urango - Collaza - Maussa and a shot Castillo.

Big effin wow!

[DG.]

I find it funny that people always accuse Hatton of ducking, when after Pac, he will have fought the 2 best fighters of his generation... and yes, there is big money in him doing that, but money usually always comes to those good enough to fight with the best.

If you watch the 24/7 in the build up to the Mayweather fight, he definitely wasn't just there for the pay cheque. He really wanted it.

And I believe he actually turned down a DLH fight before the Mayweather fight.

He was battered against PBF - he hardly laid a glove on him.

Pacman is overrated also.

[DG.]

Hatton out training.





Cherry picking!

At least IF he gets beaten he can say ' I lost to the best P4P fighter in the world, likkle Wricky done good, man of the people, tickling contest!!

I am sure Hatton is a great giuy, but as a fighter he is just another Fwank Warren clone.

Protected and beaten when he steps up.

[Hounddawg]

I think that would have made him #1, I mean Pacman is only #1 because PBF retired, but another big win for Pac and he claims it by right, you know?

Honestly, I think Pac has a better record than Floyd. He has been beaten, but his best wins are better than Floyd's best wins. The reason that Floyd was #1 was he was perceived to be unbeatable with his skills, despite probably having the most intelligently selected opponents in recent history.

He started getting P4P traction after stepping up to 140. He beat Corley and Bruseles. No one that anyone else in the top 10 P4P wouldn't beat. If I remember right, Corley even rocked him in that fight.

Then he fought Gatti in a one sided fight. Gatti shouldn't have even been in the same ring with someone like Floyd. Gatti was one of the bigger over achievers in recent boxing history and was pretty much on his way out when this fight was made. It just turned into a showcase for Floyd to tee off on a brave fighter who could barely land. Very similar to the performance Pac gave against DLH but I would give Pac far more credit for his. Never the less, Floyd got more plaudits and praise for this.

Then he jumped up in weight before even fighting ANY of the top guys at 140, and took on a shot Sharmba Mitchell and then struggled a bit against Zab Judah who was coming off the back of a loss to Baldomir, then Baldomir himself who was little more than a journeyman who got hold of an inconsistent Judah.

Then he took the pension fund fight with DLH, who didn't have enough gas to last the pace of a full 12 but still pushed Mayweather pretty close. DLH had lost 2 out of 5 in the build up to this, and arguably lost 3 out of 5 depending on how you scored the Sturm fight.

Then he fought Hatton, who was probably the only top fighter he really fought in his prime during his perceived P4P #1 status, but only after Hatton had come out of his comfort zone weight and had a ref that wouldn't let him fight his style. Hatton, also, was probably made for Floyd.

Then Floyd retired without fighting ANY of the best at 147 at the time. His best win was probably over a prime Castillo at Lightweight. But for the period of 140 up, I think he gets FAR too much creidt for the guys he beat. I do think that he is one of the most naturally gifted fighters around, but his CV doesn't show it.

Well said.

[Cannibal]

I find it funny that people always accuse Hatton of ducking, when after Pac, he will have fought the 2 best fighters of his generation... and yes, there is big money in him doing that, but money usually always comes to those good enough to fight with the best.

If you watch the 24/7 in the build up to the Mayweather fight, he definitely wasn't just there for the pay cheque. He really wanted it.

And I believe he actually turned down a DLH fight before the Mayweather fight.

He was battered against PBF - he hardly laid a glove on him.

Pacman is overrated also.

How the fight went really has nothing to do with it. He took on a prime P4P #1 and he gave it his best. He got into really impressive shape and put so much into training that many worried about him peaking too early. If Hatton had retired without fighting Mayweather, he would have gotten far more stick for that than with Witter. Witter isn't even a household name in his own household, but the whole world was urging a fight between Hatton and Mayweather.

Now with Pac, he will be fighting another P4P #1, and again in his prime. Not like Calzaghe who fought the P4P #1's of yesterday at the end of their careers.

For you to say Pac is over rated really is shocking. The guy never ducks a fight. He beat Barrera when Barrera was on top, he made Morales old, and although debated, he holds a win over JMM. All three of those guys are future Hall of Fame Mexicans. Had some very respectable wins in between those mega fights and then jumped up 3 weight divisions to embarrass the much bigger DLH in a picture perfect performance. He used to be a slugger with limited imagination, but I think he will probably be recognised as one of the most improved fighters in a long time. He always had world class speed and power, and now Freddie Roach has expanded his toolset to make him a dominant force for a few years yet. He even mentally seems to go about things better. There are many over rated fighters, but Pac isn't one of them

[DG.]

I find it funny that people always accuse Hatton of ducking, when after Pac, he will have fought the 2 best fighters of his generation... and yes, there is big money in him doing that, but money usually always comes to those good enough to fight with the best.

If you watch the 24/7 in the build up to the Mayweather fight, he definitely wasn't just there for the pay cheque. He really wanted it.

And I believe he actually turned down a DLH fight before the Mayweather fight.

He was battered against PBF - he hardly laid a glove on him.

Pacman is overrated also.

How the fight went really has nothing to do with it.

He took on a prime P4P #1 and he gave it his best.

He got into really impressive shape and put so much into training that many worried about him peaking too early.

For you to say Pac is over rated really is shocking. The guy never ducks a fight. He beat Barrera when Barrera was on top, he made Morales old, and although debated, he holds a win over JMM. All three of those guys are future Hall of Fame Mexicans. Had some very respectable wins in between those mega fights and then jumped up 3 weight divisions to embarrass the much bigger DLH in a picture perfect performance. He used to be a slugger with limited imagination, but I think he will probably be recognised as one of the most improved fighters in a long time. He always had world class speed and power, and now Freddie Roach has expanded his toolset to make him a dominant force for a few years yet. He even mentally seems to go about things better. There are many over rated fighters, but Pac isn't one of them

You are reaching with Hatton. Corley was more effective against PBF than Hatton.

Hatton was owned. Peter Buckley could step unto the ting woith PBF and so what?

Hatton fought him and no one in the world wold have turned down that money to fight PBF.

Pacman is not a good all round fighter, he is way too open in my opinion and not as great as made out to be.

Morales beat him once?
Barrera was beaten but Junior Jones holds 2 wins over a PRIME MAB.
JMM beat him TWICE in my book.

[Cannibal]

I also never understood the demand for a Hatton Vs Witter fight other than the fact both guys were British and in the same division. If Witter was Australian, would anyone have given a toss?

I even blame Witter more for the fight not happening.

Let's say they fought right after Hatton fought Thaxton in 2000, which is when Witter butted himself into the post fight interview and directly challenged Hatton.

Witter had stunk out the joint against Zab Judah only 4 months previous and wasn't viewed as an attractive fighter.

Hatton would have been 22-0-0 and Witter 16-1-2, with Hatton being about 22 years old at the time. Witter was trying to force himself back into a good light on the back of Hatton's name. You could see why Hatton took a pass on it. The five fights Witter had before Judah were records of 7-31, 0-1, 2-23, 13-8, 23-8. Not exactly setting the world on fire. Why would Hatton be interested in a fight with him at all? So he was snubbed.

How did Witter then go about forcing that fight that Hatton was "ducking"? By going on a streak of beating guys with records of 8-3, 9-29, 8-2, 12-13, 10-2, 15-10, 13-2, 14-2. This streak of bums wasted 2 YEARS!!! of Witter's career. He embarrassed himself in his only top level showing against Judah, and then went about picking on bums, yet people were insisting that Hatton was ducking him, when he was probably more along the lines of thinking "What's the point?"

Hatton during this same period stayed really busy and notched up some impressive wins with Eamonn Magee among them. 2 or 3 of them probably better than anything Witter had done in his career despite being 4 years Hatton's senior.

Witter then finally AT LAST stepped it up in 2005, by beating N'Dou, Kotelnik and Lynes. His best ever year as a pro, but by then it was too late because 2005 was the year of the Tszyu fight and the Hatton train had left the station after that win. Witter would have been small fry with the fights now on the table for Hatton. Had Witter made that step up at any time during to 00-04 period, he might have been able to force that fight, but he decided to piss about and waste time.

I'd argue that Hatton beat guys with better on paper records than Witter during the 00-04 period.

So again I say, if it was an Australian with Witter's record, would anyone have given a toss about that fight? Witters procrastination was what cost him that fight. He kept fighting C and D level fighters when he should have been fighting B level at least. The guy just didn't know how to market himself.

[Dioufy]

I also never understood the demand for a Hatton Vs Witter fight other than the fact both guys were British and in the same division. If Witter was Australian, would anyone have given a toss?

Of course it's more meaningful because he's English, but there's also some other overriding factors that contributed to the the demand of Junior and Ricky to fight. Junior and Hatton were bitter rivals for years, even when they were making their way through the domestic scene. Even with that, Junior then become a world champion, and the fight made more sense, especially when Hatton didn't have a belt and was coming off a defeat off Mayweather. If people think that Hatton would've beat Junior then, then why didn't the fight happen then? He would've been a tricky opponent, who I think Hatton would've beat closely, but the risk/reward scenario wasn't big enough for Hatton, so he plumped for Lazcano instead. But I really did want the fight to happen.

[Cannibal]

Morales beat him once?
Barrera was beaten but Junior Jones holds 2 wins over a PRIME MAB.
JMM beat him TWICE in my book.

Morales beat him once yes, but that was the fight I think sparked a major improvement in Pac and he was a different fighter when he came back and avenged the loss. I think how you come back from a loss can be more important than the loss itself sometimes.

What has Junior Jones got to do with anything? Pac can only fight who's available, and Barrera was again a fighter who reinvented himself after Jones. He boxed more instead of brawling and had a string of impressive wins going into the fight. You can't really go and discredit major wins like that when they lost to a guy years before but have been more than solid since. Barrera would have been top 3 P4P at the time easy with wins over Hamed and Morales.

The JMM one is up for debate.

[hitman_hatton1]

Cherry Picking does not a great fighter make.

Hatton beating Pacman makes him No 1 P4P?

Margarito
Bradley
Mosley
Judah
Clottey

Would all beat him., so how the hell is he P4P even top 10?

Oh yes,e beat legends in Urango - Collaza - Maussa and a shot Castillo.

Big effin wow!

did u seriously watch his last few fights.

[Dioufy]

Margarito - Big effing welterweight, mate, so he would beat Hatton
Bradley - I think Hatton gets to him late on
Mosley - Fought at 147lbs recently and would beat Hatton
Judah - Yeah, sure he beats Hatton - he beats himself half the time
Clottey - Big fecking 147lb'er, so again, no shame in losing to him

Next you'll be saying that Hatton doesn't deserve P4P#1 because he wouldn't beat Vitali or Valuev.

[DG.]

Morales beat him once?
Barrera was beaten but Junior Jones holds 2 wins over a PRIME MAB.
JMM beat him TWICE in my book.

What has Junior Jones got to do with anything? Pac can only fight who's available, and Barrera was again a fighter who reinvented himself after Jones.
The JMM one is up for debate.

The point is JJ is not an all time great but he had Barrera's number and that was a PEAK MAB.

No one is saying JJ and Pacman shold fight.

JMM also beat MAB.

Pacman is good - but not that good - PBF would toy with him, imo.

[DG.]

Cherry Picking does not a great fighter make.

Hatton beating Pacman makes him No 1 P4P?

Margarito
Bradley
Mosley
Judah
Clottey

Would all beat him., so how the hell is he P4P even top 10?

Oh yes,e beat legends in Urango - Collaza - Maussa and a shot Castillo.

Big effin wow!

did u seriously watch his last few fights.

Styles - styles!

Fast and powerful for 6 rounds should see off Hatton. The Judah that fought Cotto for the 1st 6 rounds would have destroyed Hatton, imo.

Poof!

[DG.]

Margarito - Big effing welterweight, mate, so he would beat Hatton
Bradley - I think Hatton gets to him late on
Mosley - Fought at 147lbs recently and would beat Hatton
Judah - Yeah, sure he beats Hatton - he beats himself half the time
Clottey - Big fecking 147lb'er, so again, no shame in losing to him

Next you'll be saying that Hatton doesn't deserve P4P#1 because he wouldn't beat Vitali or Valuev.

Bow you are being silly!

P4P fighters should be able to climb up 1 weoght division!

PBF
Pacman
Hopkins
Jones
Leonard
Anna Kournikova( DLH)
Holyfield
Barrera
Morales
Whittaker etc historically have.

Even JUDAH!

Before you say it - I know Hagler did not - but he is HAGLER!!!!

P4P today is a load oif shit.

[Dioufy]

I don't think fighters have to climb through the weights to gain P4P#1 if they have achieved enough to be considered number one, and if Hatton beats Pacman, then for me, he'll be number one. And just for clarification, Hatton's a two-weight world champion.

[DG.]

I don't think fighters have to climb through the weights to gain P4P#1 if they have achieved enough to be considered number one, and if Hatton beats Pacman, then for me, he'll be number one. And just for clarification, Hatton's a two-weight world champion.

By

By your reckoning every number 1 in each division should be in the P4P list?

Hatton did not prove he was number 1 in his own division imo - PBF would have beaten that version of KT. Hatton beat KT 100 years ago and has not beaten the 'best' in the division since..

Two weight champion by beating the weakest Champion means nothing - who disagrees?

Just like beating Urango and Maussa for belts meant nothing.

Also.... Urango - Maussa - Collazo - Lazcano and Maligannagggi were not in the P4P list - Hatton is only in there because he beat KT 100 years ago.

Or maybe getting tumped down by PBF means he should be?

[Dioufy]

Hatton did not prove he was number 1 in his own division imo

There's simply no use in arguing with you if you're coming out with tripe like that.

Hatton isn't just the 1# 140lb'er now, he has been for years and years.

100 of them since he beat Zoo, you say?

[DG.]

Hatton did not prove he was number 1 in his own division imo

There's simply no use in arguing with you if you're coming out with tripe like that.

Tell us the reason why Hatton was number 1?

KT?

If that fight were anywhere in the world apart from in Hattons house he would have been thrown out! Wrestling - head butts and head work plus all the punching in the balls stuff.

KT was ripe for the picking and since then Hatton has picked the weakest champs and non champs to fight until he got crushed by PBF.


P4P? no - no no!