The Chin

[GazMan85]

I've been thinking over the past couple of days and am doing some research about this topic (yeh I know i'm sad) regarding what makes people have a good or bad chin and would like some peoples opinions.

I'm not on about the ability just stand there and be knocked over.

What I want to understand is about when people are dazed or knocked out when hit not just knocked over and why some people seem to be easier dazed or knocked out than others.

I've always believed, and still do, that the way someone is knocked out is by being hit (obviously), this blow then results in the brain being shaken against the inside of the skull, which results in the brain shutting down for a certain period, thus causing the dazed affect or blackout (knockout).

Now my question is why do some people seem more prone to this happen. Is it because of the shape or make-up of their skull. Is there bone structure more prone to passing the impact onto the brain, thus causing the knockout. Are some people's skull and brains just better at taking the impact. Take broken bones as a comparison. Some peoples bones are naturally tougher than others. Is this the same as the the chin and Brain.

Your opinion would be appreciated.

[RJP]

Cracking question. I'd love to hear an informed, sports science answer.

You also have to wonder if there is a scientific/physiological reason, is there a remedy?

[Asterix]

This is a good start: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/610947/th ... _knockout/

[Shirow]

Or here

http://forum.boxrec.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=92319

[rhino222]

im a medical guy...and my findings are as follows:

someones chin is better if they are:

1. not dehydrated

2. physically fit

3. genetically inherent of a good chin

4. not fatigued

decent chins are born and are not 'developed' ..however, you can make the most of a bad chin by not being fatigued/dehydrated/unfit..

[rhino222]

what i will also state is that some fighters respond differently depending on which part of the head they are clouted.

david haye has problems with his temple (semi-circular canals) which affects his balance, i think that hayes chin is actually ok, its just his temple that is questionable (see where the mock punch caught him !!)

[Ted]

sugar in the blood.

The jelly legs effect comes in where sugar (glucose) that normally stimulates the brain is lacking, and doesnt travel to the brian quick enough after a knockdown.

Because boxers diet and trim down to make the weight this is a critical stimulant that needs replemished straight after the weigh-in ends and before the fight.

I believe that some of the granite chin boxers have the natural ability to replemish their glucose source as opposed to having a rock solid chin of some sort.
Thats MHO

[neil hibbert]

This is a good start: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/610947/th ... _knockout/

interesting that 1

[dondada]

im a medical guy...and my findings are as follows:

someones chin is better if they are:

1. not dehydrated

2. physically fit

3. genetically inherent of a good chin

4. not fatigued

decent chins are born and are not 'developed' ..however, you can make the most of a bad chin by not being fatigued/dehydrated/unfit..

Boxers can also help themselves by realising/admitting they are hurt and reacting to it instead of allowing themselves to be pummelled. Bruno learned what to do eventually. Or Tommy Hearns who after one victory in which he was badly rocked said "I hugged him like he was my woman"

[steve689]

When I read the topic headline I thought this was a thread about James Gorman :)

Does thicker neck muscles make any difference to absorbing blows?

[Bomber 1]

Does thicker neck muscles make any difference to absorbing blows?

It helps..I think the main thing is riding shots and a good defence..If we believe what scientists say then we all have the same chin and it only takes 3 pound of square pressure on the chin and no matter who you are then you are going down.. I don't personally believe in this theroy BUT have read about it and also heard it spoken about..I just believe in decent defence and riding the punch, Not that my view counts for much like.

[rhino222]

can one of the mods amalgamate this with the other 'ability to hold a shot' thread.....please

[stujones]

I would love to see some research on faded/shot fighters. How some (e.g. Steve Robinson) look the part, still good offensively but cannot take a shot, whereas others (Holyfield, Michael Ayers) cannot pull the trigger but can still take bombs.

[GazMan85]

Thanks for the info and links guys... It does actually help!!!!!!

[whicker]

I would love to see some research on faded/shot fighters. How some (e.g. Steve Robinson) look the part, still good offensively but cannot take a shot,

Could this be due (in part) to injuries sustained during the boxing career? IE in the long run the more blows a fighter takes, the less he CAN take.

[MightyWarrior]

Yes it's an interesting question alright, but ultimately it's unaswerable I think. Other than to say it's down to genetics. Like one person is naturaly intelligent, and another is naturaly just plain dumb. Or why is Bolt the quickest man that ever lived? Sure training and build helps, but it's more than just that.

Ian is right to say the ability to avoid, or ride, a shot plays a big part - no one hits Mayweather clean. Even Ray Leonard, who had a great chin, was shaken up by Duran badly, but his natural reactions allowed him to ride it out.

But if you take someone like LaMotta, you could hit him with a bat, square on, and he'd just smile at you. It's got to be genetic.

As for the faded fighters, or "shot", who had great chins that suddenly leave them - I'd guess that's down to...hate to say it, but mild brain damage ( same as too much booze I guess ) in that the slower reactions that result - slurred speech, loss of balance, also mean that recovery from a punch is that much slower.

[stujones]

I would love to see some research on faded/shot fighters. How some (e.g. Steve Robinson) look the part, still good offensively but cannot take a shot,

Could this be due (in part) to injuries sustained during the boxing career? IE in the long run the more blows a fighter takes, the less he CAN take.

Could be, but then Wayne McCullough, Arturo Gatti, even Ali (towards the end) took some beatings and their chin remained in tacked.

It has even been suggested that the likes of Benn and Foreman's chin got better with age!

[m1kee50]

When I read the topic headline I thought this was a thread about James Gorman :)

I thought it was Ring Magazines Amir Khan special issue.

[Grilling Machine]

Eubank was always drained, but his genetics never let him down. The chin's always been the focus because it transfers impact to the brain at an angle, leading to 'cleaner' KOs.



The vertebrae above are very possibly a key factor. Having a short neck can lead to compression, which would make the upper (cervical) spinal column less mobile; therefore more resistant to twisting. Likewise, building neck muscles creates a stronger support foundation. Tyson was a good example of both. Holmes was born with a huge - and short - neck.

But then there's the question of force transference and blood supply/contents. Jaguars kill prey with a bite to the occipital bone (lower back of the head), as it's the thinnest large piece of skull. Punching someone there wouldn't cause as much head movement as a shot to the forehead, because the neck is a stabiliser. It would however knock most people out, due to the unimpeded transfer of force.

Everyone has fairly exposed blood vessels in their neck, too. Shots behind the lower ear completely take your balance.

I think Dr Hibbert may have had the best answer: