50 years ago today, Henry Cooper......

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

Cooper was a GOOD fighter - the one who overrates Cooper is the man himself - he stated that the reason he lost both fights against Ali was because Ali is black and had 'negro features' but apart from that he was a better fighter than him - in his 1971 autobiography Cooper stated that he won every round in his world title fight - its that kind of crap in which people who have a axe to grind with Cooper seize upon.

Cooper comes across as bitter - his fight vs Bugner (which in my opinion Cooper lost though I will agree it was close) and if we are to bring up families like Bennie has done - the abuse and the hate campaign Harry Gibbs and his family suffered as well as the bullying his kids had to put up in school. (In Harry Gibbs autobiography)

Cooper decided to be bitter and twisted when Bruno beat McCall for the world title. Sour grapes is a big part of this mans personality but people aren't able to see through it enough and that got him a knighthood!

OF Snelling did a brilliant piece about Cooper in his book 'Bedtime book on Boxing' which I think you should read and basically sums up the mans career.

Cooper was comprehensively beat when he came up againt world class operators, ducked Chuvalo
and admitted that he wouldn't fight him because he would have got beat. (Chuvalo is still angry at being denied a shot at the Empire title)

[oliverfennell]

We've been over this before, especially when I did my ill-received "most over-rated fighters" pieces last year.

Over-rated does not mean I do not respect them. I'd be a fool if I didn't respect Cooper. But it's fondness for the man - along with a certain iconic left hook - that has elevated him above the level which he truly was. Of course he was a fine, fine British heavyweight champion - probably the best ever - in a competive era, but that does not make up for the fact he failed repeatedly at world level, often by stoppage.

Assessing someone's abilities and achievements does not equate to a personal insult.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

Henry loved punching up with that left hook, and he loved punching up on the break. Oh my God, he would have sparked Gentleman Wlad!

Cooper admitted himself he weighed 12st 12lbs for his fight vs Ali and he would routinely
put weights in his pockets to 'make' 13st 8lbs.

How he is going to beat Wlad who has height, reach, power and weight (nearly 5 stones) over Cooper?

I'm sure you one of those who insist that Jimmy Wilde would have sparked out Marvin Hagler!

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

We've been over this before, especially when I did my ill-received "most over-rated fighters" pieces last year.

Over-rated does not mean I do not respect them. I'd be a fool if I didn't respect Cooper. But it's fondness for the man - along with a certain iconic left hook - that has elevated him above the level which he truly was. Of course he was a fine, fine British heavyweight champion - probably the best ever - in a competive era, but that does not make up for the fact he failed repeatedly at world level, often by stoppage.

Assessing someone's abilities and achievements does not equate to a personal insult.

You are entitled to your opinion Ollie, because you say Cooper was overrated doesn't mean it is not a legitimate opinion - this is what this forum is about is it not?

I think Cooper is overrated and his claim that Ali only beat him because of his 'negro features' is a joke.

Everytime Cooper fought a world heavyweight champion - he was beaten inside the distance.

And everytime he lost - he had an excuse - if you read his 1971 autobiography - Cooper blamed the sun for Johansson knocking him out!

He was a good fighter - but he wasn't good enough.

[Scrap]

Johansons reply was yes it was the sun Mrs Johasons son

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

Johansons reply was yes it was the sun Mrs Johasons son

[lefthook82]

Thats a very sharp reply from Mr Johanson

[WildWaylon]

Cooper was a GOOD fighter - the one who overrates Cooper is the man himself - he stated that the reason he lost both fights against Ali was because Ali is black and had 'negro features' but apart from that he was a better fighter than him - in his 1971 autobiography Cooper stated that he won every round in his world title fight - its that kind of crap in which people who have a axe to grind with Cooper seize upon.

Cooper comes across as bitter - his fight vs Bugner (which in my opinion Cooper lost though I will agree it was close) and if we are to bring up families like Bennie has done - the abuse and the hate campaign Harry Gibbs and his family suffered as well as the bullying his kids had to put up in school. (In Harry Gibbs autobiography)

Cooper decided to be bitter and twisted when Bruno beat McCall for the world title. Sour grapes is a big part of this mans personality but people aren't able to see through it enough and that got him a knighthood!

OF Snelling did a brilliant piece about Cooper in his book 'Bedtime book on Boxing' which I think you should read and basically sums up the mans career.

Cooper was comprehensively beat when he came up againt world class operators, ducked Chuvalo
and admitted that he wouldn't fight him because he would have got beat. (Chuvalo is still angry at being denied a shot at the Empire title)

I am completely confused, how could Ali have won through his skin tone and appearance, that doesnt make any sense.

[WildWaylon]

Traditionally, black guys are seen as being less suceptible to cuts/bruises. mmmm isnt Jeff Lacy a black guy? Bit like women with big feet have big babies. Black guys do have bigger dicks, fact. We have a "balloon factory" not far from here and they export special size johnnies to Africa. Another fact is Ali was the better fighter and won through ability and no other reason.

[WildWaylon]

Traditionally, black guys are seen as being less suceptible to cuts/bruises. mmmm isnt Jeff Lacy a black guy? Bit like women with big feet have big babies. Black guys do have bigger dicks, fact. We have a "balloon factory" not far from here and they export special size johnnies to Africa. Another fact is Ali was the better fighter and won through ability and no other reason.

Yes, I should have added 'unless they've been slapped a thousand time', but I did get the 'Ali is better' part right

Women with big feet have big knackers. That is a scientific fact.

Where is the 'balloon factory' then? They may have found a new customer.

I hope you meant knockers not knackers The johnnies packed in boxes of 100 are skin coloured ie black. We use the f*cking thing as bin liners.

[metropol]

Henry cooper was around along time before I was born . Ive only seen interviews and clips. What I have seen was that henry was not great on the world stage but a decent british fighter.Looking at his record he has some losses in his early career, now i dont care for unbeaten records but at one stage he had 4 losses in a row which is very bad and nowadays could you imagine what this forum would be like if that happened. He then recoverd to become a decent european level fighter but failed at world level badly.
Could someone tell me was he in with a shout of winning the ali fight? I know he knocked him down but ali came back into the fight but was cooper still competetive?

[Poncey]

Not after the knockdown, but Ali was groggy. The infamous gloves incident helped him. Next round Cooper was battered.

His record can be a little misleading because he had terrible trouble with cuts.

[WildWaylon]

Henry cooper was around along time before I was born . Ive only seen interviews and clips. What I have seen was that henry was not great on the world stage but a decent british fighter.Looking at his record he has some losses in his early career, now i dont care for unbeaten records but at one stage he had 4 losses in a row which is very bad and nowadays could you imagine what this forum would be like if that happened. He then recoverd to become a decent european level fighter but failed at world level badly.
Could someone tell me was he in with a shout of winning the ali fight? I know he knocked him down but ali came back into the fight but was cooper still competetive?

Its a long time ago and I havent seen the fight since but from memory Cooper dropped Ali with a left hook just before the bell to end the round. Many said had this happened earlier in the round Cooper would have won the fight. I think the fight was at Wembley and the crowd went crazy thinking Henry was going to win.

[Asterix]

I hope you meant knockers not knackers The johnnies packed in boxes of 100 are skin coloured ie black. We use the f*cking thing as bin liners.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

Cooper was a GOOD fighter - the one who overrates Cooper is the man himself - he stated that the reason he lost both fights against Ali was because Ali is black and had 'negro features' but apart from that he was a better fighter than him - in his 1971 autobiography Cooper stated that he won every round in his world title fight - its that kind of crap in which people who have a axe to grind with Cooper seize upon.

Cooper comes across as bitter - his fight vs Bugner (which in my opinion Cooper lost though I will agree it was close) and if we are to bring up families like Bennie has done - the abuse and the hate campaign Harry Gibbs and his family suffered as well as the bullying his kids had to put up in school. (In Harry Gibbs autobiography)

Cooper decided to be bitter and twisted when Bruno beat McCall for the world title. Sour grapes is a big part of this mans personality but people aren't able to see through it enough and that got him a knighthood!

OF Snelling did a brilliant piece about Cooper in his book 'Bedtime book on Boxing' which I think you should read and basically sums up the mans career.

Cooper was comprehensively beat when he came up againt world class operators, ducked Chuvalo
and admitted that he wouldn't fight him because he would have got beat. (Chuvalo is still angry at being denied a shot at the Empire title)

I am completely confused, how could Ali have won through his skin tone and appearance, that doesnt make any sense.

Ask Henry Cooper - he was the one who suggested it!

I have no idea how Cooper was as good as Ali save skin tone and suppleness.

[metropol]

Not after the knockdown, but Ali was groggy. The infamous gloves incident helped him. Next round Cooper was battered.

His record can be a little misleading because he had terrible trouble with cuts.

Yes heard him say that he had sharp bones which made him cut easier.The cut he got against ali was suppose to be terrible ,the black and white images don't show it that well. What was the infamous gloves incident ? Was it that there was someting smeared on coopers gloves?

[Poncey]

Not after the knockdown, but Ali was groggy. The infamous gloves incident helped him. Next round Cooper was battered.

His record can be a little misleading because he had terrible trouble with cuts.

Yes heard him say that he had sharp bones which made him cut easier.The cut he got against ali was suppose to be terrible ,the black and white images don't show it that well. What was the infamous gloves incident ? Was it that there was someting smeared on coopers gloves?

Nah, that was the fourth round (I think) against Liston.

The gloves incident was after the knockdown in round 2 (or 3, I forget) Ali survives to the bell, then Dundee spots a tear and, dependent on who you believe, either makes it worse or just brings it to the attention of the referee. Either way Ali had precious seconds to compose himself and tear Cooper apart.

[metropol]

Not after the knockdown, but Ali was groggy. The infamous gloves incident helped him. Next round Cooper was battered.

His record can be a little misleading because he had terrible trouble with cuts.

Yes heard him say that he had sharp bones which made him cut easier.The cut he got against ali was suppose to be terrible ,the black and white images don't show it that well. What was the infamous gloves incident ? Was it that there was someting smeared on coopers gloves?

Nah, that was the fourth round (I think) against Liston.

The gloves incident was after the knockdown in round 2 (or 3, I forget) Ali survives to the bell, then Dundee spots a tear and, dependent on who you believe, either makes it worse or just brings it to the attention of the referee. Either way Ali had precious seconds to compose himself and tear Cooper apart.

Yes now i remember something like that ,just a memory lapse.Ive heard that if cooper won that we would be looking at ali and cooper totally differently but I think there would have been a re match and ali would have won. Cooper wouldnt have been anle to go on and defend imo.

[Bricks]

Posted by Bennie " He licked the likes of Brian London, Dick Richardson, Joe Erskine"

I had to laugh at the above sentence! Licking a dick and erskin!

Great thought provoking post otherwise