Here is a story on Roy Harris, who served as a county clerk and attorney after retiring from boxing:
http://www.hcnonline.com/articles/2008/ ... harris.txt
Classic American West Coast Boxing
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Thanks Tom, for posting that link to the story on ol' Cut & shoot Harris.
Btw I seen that fight live, was about 10 rows back from the ring
Btw I seen that fight live, was about 10 rows back from the ring
Last edited by kikibalt on 19 Jan 2009, 20:31, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Btw, the ref is Dynamite Jacksonkikibalt wrote:
A 4 round preliminary fight between Manuel Maldonado and John Malloy,
won by Maldonado on the Art Aragon vs Teddy "Red Top" Davis card
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Rick Farris
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
One of many things I liked about Floyd Patterson was the way he'd always get up off the canvas, if he could. Think back at the times he hit the floor early, only to come back and win. The Liston fights didn't alter my opinion of Patterson, hell, it was Sonny Liston. Floyd's success was a product of his heart, not his chin. May he rest in peace.kikibalt wrote:The End For "Cut & Shoot"
-Rick Farris
Last edited by Rick Farris on 19 Jan 2009, 16:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Rick Farris
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
I remember the late Dynamite Jackson was honored by the California Boxing HOF in 2007, I believe. I think he was the first black ref in California? Gwen Adair accepted the award for him.kikibalt wrote:Btw, the ref is Dynamite Jacksonkikibalt wrote:
A 4 round preliminary fight between Manuel Maldonado and John Malloy,
won by Maldonado on the Art Aragon vs Teddy "Red Top" Davis card
-Rick Farris
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Rick Farris
- Heavyweight
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
CORRECTION: I stated that Jose Torres fought Cal Brad the night Patterson fought Harris. It was Bennie Doyle who Torres whipped. The mistake was a product of another Karl Nelson story, his telling me of seeing Floyd Patterson in his L.A. debut long before he won the title. In that bout, Patterson was impressive in KOing Cal Brad at the the Olympic.Rick Farris wrote:A Jose Torres memory . . .
One of my closest friends, the late Karl Nelson told me the time Floyd Patterson came to L.A. to defend his heavyweight title at our Wrigley Field against Roy Harris of Cut & Shoot, Texas. In a prelim, Cus D'Amato introduced to Southern Cal fans his newest light-heavy prospect, Jose Torres. That night, Torres whipped Cal Brad and really was impressive.
A couple weeks before the bout, Karl and a few of his buddies played hookie from work for a few hours to catch a public sparring session between Patterson and Torres. Karl said that he saw Torres floor Patterson during the workout. The incident caused a rift in the relationship between the two boxers, nothing major, but a little resentment based on the publicity it would generate.
-Rick Farris
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
Frank, would you or Hap remember when a young Floyd Patterson came to L.A. in the fifties? I remember my friend was excited about what he saw in Patterson. He was fast, could bang and exciting to watch. And with Floyd Patterson, there was always an element of drama, something that added an edge to his fights.
In the late 60's, I'd have a chance to watch Floyd Patterson train for his two bouts with my former stablemate, Jerry Quarry. I remember one of the training sessions took place in a beachfront hotel in Santa Monica called, "The Surfrider".
My Grandfather drove me down to watch Floyd workout. I'd read his book, "Victory Over Myself", the previous year, so I was well read on the former heavyweight champ, plus I'd watched on TV since my early childhood. Patterson was serious when he worked and I never approached him, as I had other champs. When his workout ended, he relaxed and spoke with reporters, signed a few autographs, posed for pictures. My Grandfather said to go over and he'd snap a picture of me with him. I declined, but don't know why. Maybe because a few days later I was going to be rooting for my stablemate to KO him, something felt disingenous, so I passed.
Floyd Patterson was somebody I truly wanted to say hello to, but I just didn't have it in me that day. I felt shy, too shy to introduce myself to somebody who would understand shyness better than anybody. A few months earlier, it was easier for me to stare Sonny Liston in the eyes at the Main Street Gym, than it was to approach a smiling Floyd Patterson.
Stupid kid. Go figure?
-Rick Farris
Last edited by Rick Farris on 19 Jan 2009, 18:00, edited 2 times in total.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
CRACKED RIB
When I got the word that Jose Torres passed away,I took a spin over to Burke Emery's place to see if he'd have a comment. His bar,Champs,had been torched a couple of months ago. Burke was with the carpenters who were piecing things back together. Burke saw me walk towards the entrance. He raised his eyes.
"What have you been up to?",he said with a smile.
Burke had fought Torres in Madison Square Garden. Torres was moving up fast and was very popular in New york City. Burke had lost his Canadian Light Heavy Title and was nearing the end of his career. Torres stopped him in five rounds.
"How's the construction going?"I answered back.
"Slow. The insurance companies are dragging their feet."
Just then his long time girlfriend Shirley came from the back. She'd been supervising things since the fire.
"Haven't seen you in a while,"she said.
"When do you think things will open up again?"
"Maybe April. They say the 15th. More likely we'll open up the doors again in May."
I figured I could open up with my question to Burke.
"Burke,you'll never guess who died?"
His eyebrows raised up again.
"Jose Torres ."
"You don't say."
"Just got word of it from some of the guys at the World Boxing Hall Of Fame."
Burke looked up to the side. He stared at the wall.
"Got a story on Torres?,"I asked.
The question ,I think, startled him for an instant.
"No.No I don't have any stories."
I knew that was my queue not to push it further. Burke didn't talk boxing very much anymore. Only if he was in the mood. All the fights and all the shots he took were making him more distant. I think a little afraid too. Afraid of what I don't know. Shirley knew Burke was put on a spot so she switched gears.
"Because it's an arson,the insurance companies are slow,"she said.
I looked at Burke . He had settled down. He got closer to Shirley's side.
"Well I'll be back for the opening."I said.
"Good seeing you again,"said Burke.
Shirley had excused herself to talk to one of the workmen.
I turned to walk back outside.
"Cracked one of my ribs,"I heard Burke say.
I didn't stop. That's how Burke wanted to talk to me about Jose Torres. No confrontation. No eye contact. Then i heard Shirley call Burke to the back.
Over my shoulder I saw him squint his eyes to the back of the bar.
"Where are you? ",he asked.
I looked at his face. His scarred eyes and broken nose. His face sagged kind of sad like.
"Shirley.Where are you?",he asked again.
When I got the word that Jose Torres passed away,I took a spin over to Burke Emery's place to see if he'd have a comment. His bar,Champs,had been torched a couple of months ago. Burke was with the carpenters who were piecing things back together. Burke saw me walk towards the entrance. He raised his eyes.
"What have you been up to?",he said with a smile.
Burke had fought Torres in Madison Square Garden. Torres was moving up fast and was very popular in New york City. Burke had lost his Canadian Light Heavy Title and was nearing the end of his career. Torres stopped him in five rounds.
"How's the construction going?"I answered back.
"Slow. The insurance companies are dragging their feet."
Just then his long time girlfriend Shirley came from the back. She'd been supervising things since the fire.
"Haven't seen you in a while,"she said.
"When do you think things will open up again?"
"Maybe April. They say the 15th. More likely we'll open up the doors again in May."
I figured I could open up with my question to Burke.
"Burke,you'll never guess who died?"
His eyebrows raised up again.
"Jose Torres ."
"You don't say."
"Just got word of it from some of the guys at the World Boxing Hall Of Fame."
Burke looked up to the side. He stared at the wall.
"Got a story on Torres?,"I asked.
The question ,I think, startled him for an instant.
"No.No I don't have any stories."
I knew that was my queue not to push it further. Burke didn't talk boxing very much anymore. Only if he was in the mood. All the fights and all the shots he took were making him more distant. I think a little afraid too. Afraid of what I don't know. Shirley knew Burke was put on a spot so she switched gears.
"Because it's an arson,the insurance companies are slow,"she said.
I looked at Burke . He had settled down. He got closer to Shirley's side.
"Well I'll be back for the opening."I said.
"Good seeing you again,"said Burke.
Shirley had excused herself to talk to one of the workmen.
I turned to walk back outside.
"Cracked one of my ribs,"I heard Burke say.
I didn't stop. That's how Burke wanted to talk to me about Jose Torres. No confrontation. No eye contact. Then i heard Shirley call Burke to the back.
Over my shoulder I saw him squint his eyes to the back of the bar.
"Where are you? ",he asked.
I looked at his face. His scarred eyes and broken nose. His face sagged kind of sad like.
"Shirley.Where are you?",he asked again.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
An Interview with 1997 International Boxing Hall of Fame Inductee: Jose Torres
By: David Iamele
Jose Torres was born May 3, 1936 in Playa-Ponce, Puerto Rico. Jose began boxing in the U.S. Army at the age of 18. In the 1956 Olympics, he won the light middleweight Silver medal, losing a split decision to three-time champion Laszlo Papp of Hungary.
Jose turned pro in 1957 under the tutelage of Hall of Fame trainer, Cus D'Amato, and was undefeated in his first 27 bouts. Torres' pro debut was on May 24, 1958, which he won by first round KO. Between 1958 and 1963, the only blemishes on Jose's record were a 10 round draw with future welterweight champion Benny Paret (Sept. 26, 1959) and a KO 5 loss to Florentino Fernandez (May 26, 1963). Winning all of his next eight fights, including a first round KO of Bobo Olson, landed him a title shot against light heavyweight champ Willie Pastrano on March 30, 1965.
At NY's Madison Square Garden, Jose Torres became champion of the world by battering on Pastrano for 9 rounds, until he could not answer the bell for the 10th round.
Jose successfully defended the title three times before losing it on December 16, 1966 to 37 year old Dick Tiger on a close decision after 15 rounds. Jose lost the rematch, won two more bouts and retired from the ring with a record of 41 - 3 - 1 with 29 KO's in 1969. After his career in the ring ended, Jose stayed in the fight game as an author and writer. He has written two boxing biographies, "Sting Like a Bee", about Muhammad Ali, and "Fire & Fear", about Mike Tyson. Torres was also chairman of the New York State Athletic Commission (1983 - 1988) and President of the WBO (1993-1995).
Jose Torres became the fourth Puerto Rican fighter elected into the Hall of Fame in the modern category. Preceding him were: Carlos Ortiz, Wilfredo Gomez and Wilfred Benitez. These are the known facts about Jose Torres. They can be found in any boxing book. What follows you will not find in any book as we had the opportunity to have a lengthy in-depth discussion with Jose on many topics on the eve of his induction into the International Boxing Hall of Fame in beautiful Canastota, NY on June 14, 1997. Assisting me in the interview is my esteemed editor of the Cyberboxing Journal, Mike DeLisa.
DI: "First of all Jose, congratulations once again on your induction into the Hall of Fame."
JT: "Thank you very much."
DI: "Did you come from a large family?"
JT: "I was one of seven children, I was the second oldest. My youngest brother drowned in Puerto Rico about 7 years ago."
DI: "Did your whole family come to the US?"
JT: "My father developed Parkinson's disease around the time I became champion. He was one of the first people with Parkinson's in the world, one of the first 15, to get the experimental drug eldopa, which I saw Ali take years later. That's why I knew before anyone else that Ali had Parkinson's because they were taking the same medication."
MD: "What kind of a fighter was Laszlo Papp?"
JT: "He was a very experienced fighter. He had won a gold medal in 1948 and a gold medal in 1952. I never knew that when I boxed him, I was never told. He was a left handed fighter, a little shorter than me. I remember having an easy fight with him when the fight began and then in the middle of the second round, he hit me with a right hook, and I got mad. I won the first round, and I was winning the second when he hit me with that right. I got mad. It didn't hurt me but the people jumped up, and I got mad, and I started chasing him trying to get him back, and then he began, very calmly, to jab and move, jab and move, and I could not catch him. That made the fight very close, to the extent that when they announced that I had lost by one point. I thought that he had beaten me. It was just a matter of experience. That fight was my 28th fight."
DI: "What got you into boxing?"
JT: "Strangely, the Army. I wanted to be in the Army because I wanted to look important and sophisticated, you know, with the uniform. Two weeks into the Army, I realized that it was the worst thing in the world (laughing). I did not like the Army. Dummies were telling me what to do. I got sick and then, to be more specific, I got depressed,, and they took me to a hospital to check me out. In the hospital, I was shadow boxing, I was being the court jester for the other patients. I used to walk on my hands up and down stairs, shadow box and do exercises. Someone who was very keen of boxing and sports saw me and told me I should go to special services. I went to special services, and I wanted to be a track and field athlete and they told me the season was over. I wanted to be a basketball player, the season was over. Baseball, same thing. So I said, `what season is it?' Well, boxing's going to be starting in a couple of weeks. So I told the guy, `can I take the application with me and think about it?' So I thought, geez, I'm not a boxer but I used to love to fist fight, so I filled out the application and began boxing. I knocked the first guy out, because I was a natural puncher. Then I knocked the second guy out and then all of my friends said, `oh man, you're the future champion of the world', they believed that. I said, `oh, yeah'. The third fight, I knocked that guy out. Then I fought for the Antilia's in the Caribbean, the welterweight championship, and I knocked the guy out to become champion of the Antilia's. So they said they were sending me to fight in Panama to fight for the Caribbean championship. So I went to Panama, and I got real scared with this opponent. I thought I could not beat this guy, he looked too strong to me, and too smart. And I came out and boom, he hurt me with the first punch. The first time in my life that I was shaken up by a punch, and I said that's to be expected, the guy's much better than me any ways. At the end of the second round, I decided I'm not gonna give up, I'm not gonna make it easy for the guy, I'm gonna try to knock him out. I don't think there's anything wrong with getting knocked out when you're trying to knock the other guy out. So I start hitting and hitting the guy and the guy would not punch back. Unconsciously, I had intimidated the guy. I came back to the corner and my trainer was very excited. In the third round, I came out punching, and I hurt him to the body, and I hurt him in the head, and he was not punching back, and I said, `wait a minute, maybe this guys not as good as I thought', and I went all out and I won. I beat the guy. That taught me that I should not have an opinion. I could not assume things just looking at the guy."
DI: "At this point in time, are you telling yourself, `I got to get out of the Army and do something with this boxing career'?"
JT: "No. But after that, I began to realize that maybe I was good enough to beat guys. I remained in the service. They shipped me back to Fort Dix in New York then to Fort Mead in Maryland where I met a guy who really took interest in me. His name was Pat Nappy from Syracuse, and he was the best coach. He was an Olympic coach and then he started concentrating on me, and I won a second Army championship. In my ninth fight, I beat the Pan American champion, Paul Wright. We became friends after. Then in the all Army championship, I fought a guy named Ed Crook. I knocked Crook out in a sensational fight. I loved that fight because he was the first guy who made me think in the ring. I mean I was not afraid of him, I knew he was good, but I knew he had some faults, and I knew I could knock him out.
So I knocked the guy out in the third round, and I could have knocked him out in the second or even in the first round. When I came back to the corner, Nappy says, `You just knocked out the best pound-for-pound fighter the Army has had in the last five years.' The guy had won the All Army championship for the past four years. This was in 1956, they were waiting for the Olympics. In the trials, I was knocking everyone out, then in the finals, I fought Crook and won an easy three round decision because he was scared of me and he won't fight me. Then I went to the Olympic games and that's when I fought Laszlo Papp in the final. I fought John "Cowboy" McCormick from London in a very tough fight. He was left handed. Then I knocked out the Italian guy, then the Australian guy, then I fought Papp. Then they all predicted me to win, but I didn't know Laszlo's background. After the third round, I walked back to the corner, I was sad because I figured I've lost the fight. If Nappy had been there, I would have beaten Papp. After that, I was discharged from the Army and came to New York after Cus D'Amato sent me a letter telling me he wanted to train me . . ."
DI: "Cus searched you out?"
JT: "Yeah. Then the main thing that brought me to New York was her (indicating his wife). My brother married her sister, and I was offered a lot of money by Clay's (Ali's) people, $15,000, which was a lot of money then, 1956. Then when Cus sent me the letter, I thought she's in New York, I'm gonna come to New York for no money. (laughs) So I came to NY mainly cause of her. I was 20 then. My father loved Cus. I loved Cus. There were never any papers signed, it was a verbal agreement. He said, "whenever you feel that you don't like me, you can walk away!' Cus had the heavyweight champion at the time, Floyd Patterson, and he used Floyd to advance me. When Floyd fought, I fought on the undercard. I used to box with Floyd, and I learned so much from Floyd. Luckily, Floyd was a small heavyweight. (laughs) He was such a great fighter."
DI: "Now when you started out with Cus, you were a middleweight but you couldn't get any big fights at that weight and moved up to light heavyweight?"
JT: "No. Not because I couldn't get any fights. I was a heavy middleweight, I was only 20, I was growing."
MD: "Didn't you have some sort of dispute with Paul Pender at that time where you were supposed to fight him?"
JT: "It was not a dispute. Now I'm going to tell you something that few people know, but you asked the question, and I'm going to answer. After Floyd had fought Ingemar Johansson (second fight) and there was some trouble with the monies and the government kept the money from Floyd. Floyd owed Cus something like $225,000 at the time and Cus wanted to use $100,000 of the $225,000 to guarantee Pender a fight with me. Floyd had a lot of money in the bank so Cus went to Floyd and said, `Floyd, you owe me $225.000 so can I get $100,000 to guarantee Pender?' Floyd said, `no'. So, that was Floyd's money, and I lost the chance to fight for the middleweight championship and then a year later, I fought Pastrano for the light heavy title. I had made friends at the time with a black real estate man from Brooklyn, and he put up the $100,000 for Pastrano so I could fight for the championship. When we gave him the money, he brought $100,000 to the Garden (MSG) in a paper bag and that's how I got the opportunity to fight Pastrano. And I became champion."
MD: "Did you ever talk to Floyd about the money at that time?"
JT: "No. Never. I was not happy with Floyd but I knew he had the right to not give Cus the money for me, I mean it was his money. But if the situation was reversed, I would've done it for him. I was never really mad at Floyd for that. I was more pissed off at Floyd because when I was sparring with him, when he was going to fight Roy Harris, there was a press conference and the media was there, and there was and exchange, and I hit Floyd, and he went down. He got up and we kept boxing, he had gone down on one knee, that's all. At the press conference, they asked me what I hit him with when he went down. I said, `I didn't knock him down, he slipped.' The guy says, `yeah?' I say; `yeah, I just happened to be throwing a punch, and he slipped, so it looked like I knocked him down, but he just slipped!' I was lying, protecting his position as heavyweight champion of the world. Then a book called `Victory Over Myself' came out six or seven months after that. Milton Gross wrote the book with Floyd, and in the book he said I was boxing with him and that he went down and at the press conference I said that he slipped but I winked my eyes to the press. Floyd said that. I got so mad that I called him up and said, `Floyd, can I see you?' He said, `I know what you want me for, Jose, I know.' I said, `why did you say that?' I said to him, `look Floyd, you know I knocked you down, I know I knocked you down, but I told the press I did not knock you down. And I did not wink my eye. So why, why did you say that?' Floyd didn't say anything. But boy I was mad, cause I know he said that. I didn't like the fact that he wouldn't give Cus the $100,000 but I wasn't mad. I was mad at this thing because it was a lie."
DI: "Now, when you were fighting as a middleweight, you had won about 27 fights in a row before you first loss . . ."
JT: "Yes, something like that. My first loss was against Florentino Fernandez in Puerto Rico."
DI: "Was that loss a big shock to you?"
JT: "No. Because I was a kid then. Actually, I had a draw before that with a Cuban fighter by the name of Benny "Kid" Paret. The guy who died fighting Emile Griffith. I drew with him in a fight I thought I won. But they expected me to knock him out and because I didn't, they punished me by giving me the draw. That was my assumption at the time. In the Fernandez fight, I never hit a guy more than I hit him. Clean punches. Combination punches. He just refused to budge. I hit him and hit him and in other fights, the guys would go, you know? Him? He just came back mad. He knocked me down in the first round, and then I got up and that's when I hit him and hit him but he refused to go down. Then I think in the sixth round, he hit me with a jab in the eye, and I got dizzy and they stopped the fight because the referee was very good and he didn't want me to get hurt. No complaint. (Actually, it was the fifth round) He didn't hit me with clean shots, but the one when he knocked me down, otherwise, I'd have been knocked out. But I hit him so much and he didn't care that night."
DI: "So then after just one loss and a draw, you put together another string of victories and then went and fought Bobo Olson. It that right?"
JT: "Bobo Olson as a light heavyweight."
DI: "That's what set you up for the Pastrano fight?"
JT: "Yes. After that, I got the Pastrano fight."
DI: "You KO'd Olson in the first round, didn't you?"
JT: "Yes. Bobo Olson was one of my idols. He used to fight beautifully. I loved his style of fighting. In fact, I think I imitated Olson when I first started fighting, and then Cus perfected my peek-a-boo style. Joey Fariello was my trainer, who was a student of Cus, one of his trainers. I always forget to mention Joey, who taught me mechanically. Cus spoke to me a lot, helped me psychologically."
DI: "Cus was very good with the mental part of training."
JT: "Yeah, Cus and Joey coordinated their work together. That's when I really grew up. I was lucky because all my trainers - Nappy, Cus, Joey all helped me and knew that the mental aspect was so important. But Cus had that perfected."
DI: "Now the Pastrano fight at the Garden, you won in the ninth round, took place in March of `65. Now I wasn't born until October of `65 . . ."
JT: "Oh, shit." (laughs)
DI: " . . . but in the films and pictures I've seen of the fight of the crowd carrying you out and they seemed so elated, there was a big Puerto Rican following there . . ."
JT: "Yes, that's true. There was a lack of a Puerto Rican hero at the time, and I became their hero. I understood, intellectually, at the time, what was going on, even though I hated to be treated like a hero by the Puerto Rican's. Because I said, `I'm not a better human being than you are, you know? But I couldn't communicate that to them. They loved me as a hero. I became champion because of them. They were my inspiration, not the money. The Nationalism, the patriotism, the Puerto Rican thing, the Latino thing. You know some Cubans that were friends of mine got pissed off because I said Puerto Rican people and they said no man the Hispanic people! We were there too." DI: "Was that the most exhilarating moment of your career? Having won the championship, having the crowd carry you out like that?"
JT: "See I was 28 then, when I was 19, I went to the Olympics. The march in the Olympics, that was exhilarating. I thought I was going to pass out from the experience. Even though I was marching with the US team, I was hanging out with the Puerto Rican team. Because I was in the Army and because Puerto Rico gave permission to the U.S. for me to represent them, there has to be a negotiation, you know. I'm not the first one, tennis players will do that a lot. The Army asked Puerto Rico and they said, `we have our champion'. But everyone says I was the first Puerto Rican to win a silver medal, and I want to clarify that I was on the U.S. team. I would've loved to represent Puerto Rico but I was in the United States, but I feel as proud."
DI: "I saw in a boxing book a picture of you with the Dundee's and it was referring to a $25,000 contract. What was that in reference to?"
JT: "What happened with the Dundee's was that before I got the Pastrano fight, I had to give the Dundee's $10,000 not $25,000 to guarantee that if Willie lost, I would give him a rematch or forfeit the 10 grand. But the money was paid back because he didn't want a rematch. (laughs) It could have been $25,000 but I think it was $10,000.
DI: "Now in the same book, and I have to ask you about this, there is a picture of Jose Torres singing on the Ed Sullivan show. Tell me a little about this?"
JT: "Yes, that's true - that's true. (laughing) I was the first Latino to sing on the Ed Sullivan show. I forget the name of the agent, he's a big time agent, who told me I can get you a couple of thousand bucks for singing on the show. So I went on the show with a famous trio from Puerto Rico and it went beautifully. But I was shaking, because I had no control over that. Then my agent calls me two days later and says he has a contract for me to sing at the opening of the New Paramount theater on Broadway (in NYC). So I sang for a week with the top Latino singers in the world. Charo's first trip to the US in 1965. I made good money for my singing. A few thousand dollars, which was good money back then. Two weeks before I won the title, the Puerto Rican government, wanted me to go to Puerto Rico but I could not go because I was singing on the Ed Sullivan Show Sunday night. Back then, t.v. was live, so I left for Puerto Rico Monday morning. There was 150,000 people at the airport to see me, and I spent the whole day walking in the streets of Puerto Rico. For the first time in history, they took the camera out on to the streets and followed me."
DI: "You must have been some singer?"
JT: "(laughing quite a lot) No. No. They knew me as a fighter, period."
MD: "When did you start to think seriously about writing?"
JT: "Even before I became champion. Pete Hamil, who is the editor of the Daily News now, is the one from the beginning who told me boxing is a short thing. In writing, you can be 90 years old and still write. He gave me a lot of confidence. He gave me a beautiful new typewriter as a gift. I began writing while I was still fighting. I wrote a piece and won a prize and no one believed I wrote it. They all thought it was Pete, even though he didn't do shit. (laughing) When they thought it was him, and I wrote the whole thing, that's when I knew I could do a good job (as a writer). Then I just wrote every once in a while. I didn't care if they paid me or not."
MD: "How did you get introduced to Norman Mailer?"
JT: "Peter Hamil. He introduced me to Norman in around 1962. He gave me books, Hemingway. For the first time in my life, I began to read books, novels, that were not text books from school. I was 20. I was really taken by Hemingway and Norman. More by Norman because Hemingway compared to Norman was very simple. Pete always said when you write you write to the masses. So you have to write for all of them to understand. Mailer was not that way except I understood him so fornicating clearly. I said to Pete maybe Mailer is as clear as Hemingway except on a different level. Mailer stimulated me more than Hemingway. Norman and I still have lunch together. He's terrific."
DI: "When you lost the title in 1966 to Dick Tiger, was that a very devastating thing for you?"
JT: "It was not devastating to me. You know why? Because when I became champion, I lost interest. I was writing. I was having arguments with Cus. He was telling me `your friends are ruining your career' meaning Pete and Norman and Bud Schaumburg. He says, `you don't want to be a fighter anymore'. I said `Cus, I've become champion of the World, what else do you want me to do?' `Beat Muhammad Ali', he says. I said, `yeah, that's a good challenge.' But then I fought Tom McNeeley in Puerto Rico (Peter McNeeley's father), and I wound up in the hospital with an inflamed pancreas. I almost died. So Cus gave up the idea of fighting Ali after that. He saw that I was losing interest. I was not the same fighter after I became champion."
DI: "You were already thinking about retiring?"
JT: "I just lost interest. I remember I used to run 10 miles a day, I'd drop it to three miles. You know stuff like that. So even though you get in shape, it shows your losing interest."
DI: "We've both been coming to Canastota for a number of years now, and I want to ask you a question that I ask only out of real curiosity, because you're both a boxer and an articulate man. How do you explain the difference between say, a lot of the old timers here: Archie Moore, Willie Pep, Carmen, etc. . . . they're sharp, witty, great with the fans, good memories - Then the tragedies of these younger guys . . ."
JT: "Amazing"
DI: ". . . like Jerry Quarry. Some of these guys are in bad shape. How can one person show so much marked deterioration and another not be effected nearly so much."
JT: "And also to add to that, when people see Muhammad Ali and say, look, he's punchy, whatever. Remember, he got hit less than all of his contemporaries. Everyone of the heavyweights in the era of Ali got hit 60 times more than he did. He got hit only at the end of his career. But Norton, Frazier, those guys, they got hit 3, 4, 5 times more than Ali, Jesus. How come they don't have Parkinson's disease?!?! My father, who passed away six years ago, had Parkinson's disease for 27 years and the reason why they don't blame boxing is only because he never boxed. If he had been a boxer, they would've said it was the boxing (laughs). When I first came here, two things happened to me and Cus used to use them as examples all the time. We went to a funeral of this very old guy and Cus says `this guy was never a great fighter, he was a `banger' and he got knocked down 35 times in one fight and he got knocked out eight times in a row in two weeks!' You know this was in the 1920's and 1930's. When he died, he was 105 years old! He died of old age. I couldn't believe it -- this guy gets beat to shit in the ring and dies of old age. Amazing.
Then one time, I'm talking to a friend of Rocky Graziano's, and I said, `Rocky talks funny'.' He says to me, `you know, we grew up together (Rocky and him) and if you listened to him before he started fighting, you wouldn't have been able to understand him. Since he's been boxing, he talks a little better.' (laughs)
So as a result of those experiences, I'll tell you what I did. When Ali went to Africa to fight Foreman, I went to the Bowery in NY to interview bums. I talked to 35 or 40 bums. By the way, I would say 80% to 85% of these bums knew me. They'd see me and say, `hey - Jose Torres'. I told them I wanted to talk to them abut the fight and they knew about it. Everyone knew. I talked to them and 50% of them picked Ali! Fifty percent of them picked Foreman. So the last line of the article I wrote for the NY Post said, `the funny thing about this is that 50% of the bums in the Bowery are going to be right' (laughs) and then you have guys like Pacheco and Albert who are supposed to be experts if they say who will win. So half of the bums are right. So the point I was making is that, what, only one guy picked Ali to win (journalist) but half the bums were right! I thought Foreman was going to win. In the first round, I knew that Ali would beat Foreman, and I'll never forget that. I was very happy. I wanted Ali to win because he was my favorite but I thought he would get knocked out. That fight taught me, I used to think Ali was unbeatable. He's so fornicating smart. He's an artist, a magician. He does everything wrong! He used to pull back from punches. That is equal to you being on train tracks with the train coming and you don't want to be hit so you move to one side to get off the tracks. Ali moved back. And the train never caught him. He's a fornicating magician, that's the way I explain it. So when this fight happened, I forget this whole philosophy. Then after about two minutes into the first round, I said to myself, Ali cannot lose this fight."
DI: "What if Foreman had the mental make-up that he has now?"
JT: "I wrote a piece on that for a magazine. I claimed that Foreman is a better fighter now than when he was young."
DI: "He's so relaxed now in the ring. Before he was so stiff and tight."
JT: "That's right. Exactly. Well, now at this point in time, he's not the best fighter. He has too much money and he's not a kid anymore. The reason all those old fighters are coming back is George. This question of these guys being allowed to fight is real conflict to me. I believe that Robert Duran could still beat 60% to 65% of the fighters available today. (laughs) I would have trouble as a commissioner turning down anyone for a boxing license because we are superseded by our constitutional rights. We cannot discriminate."
DI: "What is your feelings on all the controversy and hoopla about Don getting inducted to the Hall of Fame?"
JT: "Don King is the premiere promoter of the last 20 years. You cannot ignore that. In those 20 years fighters, some fighters, have suffered because of Don King and it is not King per say. Let me give you an example: Cus D'Amato was being interviewed one time, and he was asked what he thought of Bob Arum. Cus says, `Bob Arum is the worst human being in the sport of boxing.' They said, `Cus, what do you mean?', `what about Don King?' He says, `I have not dealt with Don King but God cannot make the same mistake twice.' Now taking that into consideration, Cus was such a decent guy with his fighters . . . by the way, let me add here, Cus never . . . I made close to a million bucks as a fighter in 11 years with Cus and he never took a penny of any of my purses. Never. Because he was making money with Floyd. He used to say, `if I took your money, I'd have to give it to the IRS anyhow.' When he died, I was there. He said that about Arum because of a deal Cus had with him involving Tyson and Arum backed out. Cus said, `you have a contract, you can't back out.' So Arum says, `sue me!' Lou Duva, one of my favorite boxing guys, Arum and King, and any other boxing promoter, they are there because of business, not because they love fighters. They function based on boxing not boxers. Boxing is what makes money for them. Champions come and go, but boxing remains. The only thing is with Don King, he brags about it. The other guys, they keep quiet about it. They have been sued by fighters also, not just Don King. But it's not fair for a promoter to make more on a fight than a fighter. That's absurd. But I am going to let you know that I am working on something now. I'm working on organizing boxing. I'm getting so much help. There's a man from Minnesota, Paul Johnson, who works for the ALF CIO and he has been working for the past several years on unionizing boxing. To give the fighters a voice, power, autonomy, independence and I say, `oh, I hope before I die, I can see that.' I'm thinking very seriously about talking about that in my speech tomorrow. (He did) I believe that the promoters, t.v., the boxing organizations - they should not mind that. Because it gives a voice to the fighters who have always just been manipulated."
DI: "That sounds a lot better than the Federal regulation that is being talked about now. How could involving the government help clear anything up?"
JT: "The Federal regulation never even mentioned promoters. It only stated that commissioners being part of an international organization is a conflict of interest. The WBO, of which I was president, is working on getting rid of all these guys."
DI: "Now, speaking of promoters, Don King's has got his golden egg coming up - Tyson/Holyfield II. Do you think there's any way Tyson can pull himself together and win that fight?"
JT: "Yeah. I'm sure that's gonna happen. I love Evander Holyfield. I probably have some feeling in my heart for Mike Tyson, who I met when he was 12 years old. I was the first champion he met besides Muhammad Ali, who he met when he was in jail. He used to love my wife's cooking, he used to come to my house and stay with us before he was champion, while he was champion, after he was champion. I don't know if I am still attached to him."
DI: "What do you think Cus D'Amato would think about Mike Tyson now?"
JT: "I don't talk to Tyson because I think he betrayed Cus, not because of anything else. To me it is inconceivable that any fighter who was trained by Cus could betray him."
DI: "If Tyson loses this rematch and he just ended up on a downhill spiral and retired or just ended up not being able to compete at the level he once did, can you think of a greater waste of talent?"
JT: "Oh my God. He had the potential to be incredible. He had the potential to be even as great as Muhammad Ali."
DI: "Many people believed before his incarceration that he was right up there with the all time greats. But if he loses this fight . . ."
JT: "Oh no, that's it, he's a bum. Absolutely, absolutely."
DI: "Jose, again, congratulations and thank you so much for your time."
JT: "You're very welcome."
I want to again thank Jose Torres for his generosity and also my boxing goomba, Mike "Mad dog" DeLisa for assisting me in this interview.
By: David Iamele
Jose Torres was born May 3, 1936 in Playa-Ponce, Puerto Rico. Jose began boxing in the U.S. Army at the age of 18. In the 1956 Olympics, he won the light middleweight Silver medal, losing a split decision to three-time champion Laszlo Papp of Hungary.
Jose turned pro in 1957 under the tutelage of Hall of Fame trainer, Cus D'Amato, and was undefeated in his first 27 bouts. Torres' pro debut was on May 24, 1958, which he won by first round KO. Between 1958 and 1963, the only blemishes on Jose's record were a 10 round draw with future welterweight champion Benny Paret (Sept. 26, 1959) and a KO 5 loss to Florentino Fernandez (May 26, 1963). Winning all of his next eight fights, including a first round KO of Bobo Olson, landed him a title shot against light heavyweight champ Willie Pastrano on March 30, 1965.
At NY's Madison Square Garden, Jose Torres became champion of the world by battering on Pastrano for 9 rounds, until he could not answer the bell for the 10th round.
Jose successfully defended the title three times before losing it on December 16, 1966 to 37 year old Dick Tiger on a close decision after 15 rounds. Jose lost the rematch, won two more bouts and retired from the ring with a record of 41 - 3 - 1 with 29 KO's in 1969. After his career in the ring ended, Jose stayed in the fight game as an author and writer. He has written two boxing biographies, "Sting Like a Bee", about Muhammad Ali, and "Fire & Fear", about Mike Tyson. Torres was also chairman of the New York State Athletic Commission (1983 - 1988) and President of the WBO (1993-1995).
Jose Torres became the fourth Puerto Rican fighter elected into the Hall of Fame in the modern category. Preceding him were: Carlos Ortiz, Wilfredo Gomez and Wilfred Benitez. These are the known facts about Jose Torres. They can be found in any boxing book. What follows you will not find in any book as we had the opportunity to have a lengthy in-depth discussion with Jose on many topics on the eve of his induction into the International Boxing Hall of Fame in beautiful Canastota, NY on June 14, 1997. Assisting me in the interview is my esteemed editor of the Cyberboxing Journal, Mike DeLisa.
DI: "First of all Jose, congratulations once again on your induction into the Hall of Fame."
JT: "Thank you very much."
DI: "Did you come from a large family?"
JT: "I was one of seven children, I was the second oldest. My youngest brother drowned in Puerto Rico about 7 years ago."
DI: "Did your whole family come to the US?"
JT: "My father developed Parkinson's disease around the time I became champion. He was one of the first people with Parkinson's in the world, one of the first 15, to get the experimental drug eldopa, which I saw Ali take years later. That's why I knew before anyone else that Ali had Parkinson's because they were taking the same medication."
MD: "What kind of a fighter was Laszlo Papp?"
JT: "He was a very experienced fighter. He had won a gold medal in 1948 and a gold medal in 1952. I never knew that when I boxed him, I was never told. He was a left handed fighter, a little shorter than me. I remember having an easy fight with him when the fight began and then in the middle of the second round, he hit me with a right hook, and I got mad. I won the first round, and I was winning the second when he hit me with that right. I got mad. It didn't hurt me but the people jumped up, and I got mad, and I started chasing him trying to get him back, and then he began, very calmly, to jab and move, jab and move, and I could not catch him. That made the fight very close, to the extent that when they announced that I had lost by one point. I thought that he had beaten me. It was just a matter of experience. That fight was my 28th fight."
DI: "What got you into boxing?"
JT: "Strangely, the Army. I wanted to be in the Army because I wanted to look important and sophisticated, you know, with the uniform. Two weeks into the Army, I realized that it was the worst thing in the world (laughing). I did not like the Army. Dummies were telling me what to do. I got sick and then, to be more specific, I got depressed,, and they took me to a hospital to check me out. In the hospital, I was shadow boxing, I was being the court jester for the other patients. I used to walk on my hands up and down stairs, shadow box and do exercises. Someone who was very keen of boxing and sports saw me and told me I should go to special services. I went to special services, and I wanted to be a track and field athlete and they told me the season was over. I wanted to be a basketball player, the season was over. Baseball, same thing. So I said, `what season is it?' Well, boxing's going to be starting in a couple of weeks. So I told the guy, `can I take the application with me and think about it?' So I thought, geez, I'm not a boxer but I used to love to fist fight, so I filled out the application and began boxing. I knocked the first guy out, because I was a natural puncher. Then I knocked the second guy out and then all of my friends said, `oh man, you're the future champion of the world', they believed that. I said, `oh, yeah'. The third fight, I knocked that guy out. Then I fought for the Antilia's in the Caribbean, the welterweight championship, and I knocked the guy out to become champion of the Antilia's. So they said they were sending me to fight in Panama to fight for the Caribbean championship. So I went to Panama, and I got real scared with this opponent. I thought I could not beat this guy, he looked too strong to me, and too smart. And I came out and boom, he hurt me with the first punch. The first time in my life that I was shaken up by a punch, and I said that's to be expected, the guy's much better than me any ways. At the end of the second round, I decided I'm not gonna give up, I'm not gonna make it easy for the guy, I'm gonna try to knock him out. I don't think there's anything wrong with getting knocked out when you're trying to knock the other guy out. So I start hitting and hitting the guy and the guy would not punch back. Unconsciously, I had intimidated the guy. I came back to the corner and my trainer was very excited. In the third round, I came out punching, and I hurt him to the body, and I hurt him in the head, and he was not punching back, and I said, `wait a minute, maybe this guys not as good as I thought', and I went all out and I won. I beat the guy. That taught me that I should not have an opinion. I could not assume things just looking at the guy."
DI: "At this point in time, are you telling yourself, `I got to get out of the Army and do something with this boxing career'?"
JT: "No. But after that, I began to realize that maybe I was good enough to beat guys. I remained in the service. They shipped me back to Fort Dix in New York then to Fort Mead in Maryland where I met a guy who really took interest in me. His name was Pat Nappy from Syracuse, and he was the best coach. He was an Olympic coach and then he started concentrating on me, and I won a second Army championship. In my ninth fight, I beat the Pan American champion, Paul Wright. We became friends after. Then in the all Army championship, I fought a guy named Ed Crook. I knocked Crook out in a sensational fight. I loved that fight because he was the first guy who made me think in the ring. I mean I was not afraid of him, I knew he was good, but I knew he had some faults, and I knew I could knock him out.
So I knocked the guy out in the third round, and I could have knocked him out in the second or even in the first round. When I came back to the corner, Nappy says, `You just knocked out the best pound-for-pound fighter the Army has had in the last five years.' The guy had won the All Army championship for the past four years. This was in 1956, they were waiting for the Olympics. In the trials, I was knocking everyone out, then in the finals, I fought Crook and won an easy three round decision because he was scared of me and he won't fight me. Then I went to the Olympic games and that's when I fought Laszlo Papp in the final. I fought John "Cowboy" McCormick from London in a very tough fight. He was left handed. Then I knocked out the Italian guy, then the Australian guy, then I fought Papp. Then they all predicted me to win, but I didn't know Laszlo's background. After the third round, I walked back to the corner, I was sad because I figured I've lost the fight. If Nappy had been there, I would have beaten Papp. After that, I was discharged from the Army and came to New York after Cus D'Amato sent me a letter telling me he wanted to train me . . ."
DI: "Cus searched you out?"
JT: "Yeah. Then the main thing that brought me to New York was her (indicating his wife). My brother married her sister, and I was offered a lot of money by Clay's (Ali's) people, $15,000, which was a lot of money then, 1956. Then when Cus sent me the letter, I thought she's in New York, I'm gonna come to New York for no money. (laughs) So I came to NY mainly cause of her. I was 20 then. My father loved Cus. I loved Cus. There were never any papers signed, it was a verbal agreement. He said, "whenever you feel that you don't like me, you can walk away!' Cus had the heavyweight champion at the time, Floyd Patterson, and he used Floyd to advance me. When Floyd fought, I fought on the undercard. I used to box with Floyd, and I learned so much from Floyd. Luckily, Floyd was a small heavyweight. (laughs) He was such a great fighter."
DI: "Now when you started out with Cus, you were a middleweight but you couldn't get any big fights at that weight and moved up to light heavyweight?"
JT: "No. Not because I couldn't get any fights. I was a heavy middleweight, I was only 20, I was growing."
MD: "Didn't you have some sort of dispute with Paul Pender at that time where you were supposed to fight him?"
JT: "It was not a dispute. Now I'm going to tell you something that few people know, but you asked the question, and I'm going to answer. After Floyd had fought Ingemar Johansson (second fight) and there was some trouble with the monies and the government kept the money from Floyd. Floyd owed Cus something like $225,000 at the time and Cus wanted to use $100,000 of the $225,000 to guarantee Pender a fight with me. Floyd had a lot of money in the bank so Cus went to Floyd and said, `Floyd, you owe me $225.000 so can I get $100,000 to guarantee Pender?' Floyd said, `no'. So, that was Floyd's money, and I lost the chance to fight for the middleweight championship and then a year later, I fought Pastrano for the light heavy title. I had made friends at the time with a black real estate man from Brooklyn, and he put up the $100,000 for Pastrano so I could fight for the championship. When we gave him the money, he brought $100,000 to the Garden (MSG) in a paper bag and that's how I got the opportunity to fight Pastrano. And I became champion."
MD: "Did you ever talk to Floyd about the money at that time?"
JT: "No. Never. I was not happy with Floyd but I knew he had the right to not give Cus the money for me, I mean it was his money. But if the situation was reversed, I would've done it for him. I was never really mad at Floyd for that. I was more pissed off at Floyd because when I was sparring with him, when he was going to fight Roy Harris, there was a press conference and the media was there, and there was and exchange, and I hit Floyd, and he went down. He got up and we kept boxing, he had gone down on one knee, that's all. At the press conference, they asked me what I hit him with when he went down. I said, `I didn't knock him down, he slipped.' The guy says, `yeah?' I say; `yeah, I just happened to be throwing a punch, and he slipped, so it looked like I knocked him down, but he just slipped!' I was lying, protecting his position as heavyweight champion of the world. Then a book called `Victory Over Myself' came out six or seven months after that. Milton Gross wrote the book with Floyd, and in the book he said I was boxing with him and that he went down and at the press conference I said that he slipped but I winked my eyes to the press. Floyd said that. I got so mad that I called him up and said, `Floyd, can I see you?' He said, `I know what you want me for, Jose, I know.' I said, `why did you say that?' I said to him, `look Floyd, you know I knocked you down, I know I knocked you down, but I told the press I did not knock you down. And I did not wink my eye. So why, why did you say that?' Floyd didn't say anything. But boy I was mad, cause I know he said that. I didn't like the fact that he wouldn't give Cus the $100,000 but I wasn't mad. I was mad at this thing because it was a lie."
DI: "Now, when you were fighting as a middleweight, you had won about 27 fights in a row before you first loss . . ."
JT: "Yes, something like that. My first loss was against Florentino Fernandez in Puerto Rico."
DI: "Was that loss a big shock to you?"
JT: "No. Because I was a kid then. Actually, I had a draw before that with a Cuban fighter by the name of Benny "Kid" Paret. The guy who died fighting Emile Griffith. I drew with him in a fight I thought I won. But they expected me to knock him out and because I didn't, they punished me by giving me the draw. That was my assumption at the time. In the Fernandez fight, I never hit a guy more than I hit him. Clean punches. Combination punches. He just refused to budge. I hit him and hit him and in other fights, the guys would go, you know? Him? He just came back mad. He knocked me down in the first round, and then I got up and that's when I hit him and hit him but he refused to go down. Then I think in the sixth round, he hit me with a jab in the eye, and I got dizzy and they stopped the fight because the referee was very good and he didn't want me to get hurt. No complaint. (Actually, it was the fifth round) He didn't hit me with clean shots, but the one when he knocked me down, otherwise, I'd have been knocked out. But I hit him so much and he didn't care that night."
DI: "So then after just one loss and a draw, you put together another string of victories and then went and fought Bobo Olson. It that right?"
JT: "Bobo Olson as a light heavyweight."
DI: "That's what set you up for the Pastrano fight?"
JT: "Yes. After that, I got the Pastrano fight."
DI: "You KO'd Olson in the first round, didn't you?"
JT: "Yes. Bobo Olson was one of my idols. He used to fight beautifully. I loved his style of fighting. In fact, I think I imitated Olson when I first started fighting, and then Cus perfected my peek-a-boo style. Joey Fariello was my trainer, who was a student of Cus, one of his trainers. I always forget to mention Joey, who taught me mechanically. Cus spoke to me a lot, helped me psychologically."
DI: "Cus was very good with the mental part of training."
JT: "Yeah, Cus and Joey coordinated their work together. That's when I really grew up. I was lucky because all my trainers - Nappy, Cus, Joey all helped me and knew that the mental aspect was so important. But Cus had that perfected."
DI: "Now the Pastrano fight at the Garden, you won in the ninth round, took place in March of `65. Now I wasn't born until October of `65 . . ."
JT: "Oh, shit." (laughs)
DI: " . . . but in the films and pictures I've seen of the fight of the crowd carrying you out and they seemed so elated, there was a big Puerto Rican following there . . ."
JT: "Yes, that's true. There was a lack of a Puerto Rican hero at the time, and I became their hero. I understood, intellectually, at the time, what was going on, even though I hated to be treated like a hero by the Puerto Rican's. Because I said, `I'm not a better human being than you are, you know? But I couldn't communicate that to them. They loved me as a hero. I became champion because of them. They were my inspiration, not the money. The Nationalism, the patriotism, the Puerto Rican thing, the Latino thing. You know some Cubans that were friends of mine got pissed off because I said Puerto Rican people and they said no man the Hispanic people! We were there too." DI: "Was that the most exhilarating moment of your career? Having won the championship, having the crowd carry you out like that?"
JT: "See I was 28 then, when I was 19, I went to the Olympics. The march in the Olympics, that was exhilarating. I thought I was going to pass out from the experience. Even though I was marching with the US team, I was hanging out with the Puerto Rican team. Because I was in the Army and because Puerto Rico gave permission to the U.S. for me to represent them, there has to be a negotiation, you know. I'm not the first one, tennis players will do that a lot. The Army asked Puerto Rico and they said, `we have our champion'. But everyone says I was the first Puerto Rican to win a silver medal, and I want to clarify that I was on the U.S. team. I would've loved to represent Puerto Rico but I was in the United States, but I feel as proud."
DI: "I saw in a boxing book a picture of you with the Dundee's and it was referring to a $25,000 contract. What was that in reference to?"
JT: "What happened with the Dundee's was that before I got the Pastrano fight, I had to give the Dundee's $10,000 not $25,000 to guarantee that if Willie lost, I would give him a rematch or forfeit the 10 grand. But the money was paid back because he didn't want a rematch. (laughs) It could have been $25,000 but I think it was $10,000.
DI: "Now in the same book, and I have to ask you about this, there is a picture of Jose Torres singing on the Ed Sullivan show. Tell me a little about this?"
JT: "Yes, that's true - that's true. (laughing) I was the first Latino to sing on the Ed Sullivan show. I forget the name of the agent, he's a big time agent, who told me I can get you a couple of thousand bucks for singing on the show. So I went on the show with a famous trio from Puerto Rico and it went beautifully. But I was shaking, because I had no control over that. Then my agent calls me two days later and says he has a contract for me to sing at the opening of the New Paramount theater on Broadway (in NYC). So I sang for a week with the top Latino singers in the world. Charo's first trip to the US in 1965. I made good money for my singing. A few thousand dollars, which was good money back then. Two weeks before I won the title, the Puerto Rican government, wanted me to go to Puerto Rico but I could not go because I was singing on the Ed Sullivan Show Sunday night. Back then, t.v. was live, so I left for Puerto Rico Monday morning. There was 150,000 people at the airport to see me, and I spent the whole day walking in the streets of Puerto Rico. For the first time in history, they took the camera out on to the streets and followed me."
DI: "You must have been some singer?"
JT: "(laughing quite a lot) No. No. They knew me as a fighter, period."
MD: "When did you start to think seriously about writing?"
JT: "Even before I became champion. Pete Hamil, who is the editor of the Daily News now, is the one from the beginning who told me boxing is a short thing. In writing, you can be 90 years old and still write. He gave me a lot of confidence. He gave me a beautiful new typewriter as a gift. I began writing while I was still fighting. I wrote a piece and won a prize and no one believed I wrote it. They all thought it was Pete, even though he didn't do shit. (laughing) When they thought it was him, and I wrote the whole thing, that's when I knew I could do a good job (as a writer). Then I just wrote every once in a while. I didn't care if they paid me or not."
MD: "How did you get introduced to Norman Mailer?"
JT: "Peter Hamil. He introduced me to Norman in around 1962. He gave me books, Hemingway. For the first time in my life, I began to read books, novels, that were not text books from school. I was 20. I was really taken by Hemingway and Norman. More by Norman because Hemingway compared to Norman was very simple. Pete always said when you write you write to the masses. So you have to write for all of them to understand. Mailer was not that way except I understood him so fornicating clearly. I said to Pete maybe Mailer is as clear as Hemingway except on a different level. Mailer stimulated me more than Hemingway. Norman and I still have lunch together. He's terrific."
DI: "When you lost the title in 1966 to Dick Tiger, was that a very devastating thing for you?"
JT: "It was not devastating to me. You know why? Because when I became champion, I lost interest. I was writing. I was having arguments with Cus. He was telling me `your friends are ruining your career' meaning Pete and Norman and Bud Schaumburg. He says, `you don't want to be a fighter anymore'. I said `Cus, I've become champion of the World, what else do you want me to do?' `Beat Muhammad Ali', he says. I said, `yeah, that's a good challenge.' But then I fought Tom McNeeley in Puerto Rico (Peter McNeeley's father), and I wound up in the hospital with an inflamed pancreas. I almost died. So Cus gave up the idea of fighting Ali after that. He saw that I was losing interest. I was not the same fighter after I became champion."
DI: "You were already thinking about retiring?"
JT: "I just lost interest. I remember I used to run 10 miles a day, I'd drop it to three miles. You know stuff like that. So even though you get in shape, it shows your losing interest."
DI: "We've both been coming to Canastota for a number of years now, and I want to ask you a question that I ask only out of real curiosity, because you're both a boxer and an articulate man. How do you explain the difference between say, a lot of the old timers here: Archie Moore, Willie Pep, Carmen, etc. . . . they're sharp, witty, great with the fans, good memories - Then the tragedies of these younger guys . . ."
JT: "Amazing"
DI: ". . . like Jerry Quarry. Some of these guys are in bad shape. How can one person show so much marked deterioration and another not be effected nearly so much."
JT: "And also to add to that, when people see Muhammad Ali and say, look, he's punchy, whatever. Remember, he got hit less than all of his contemporaries. Everyone of the heavyweights in the era of Ali got hit 60 times more than he did. He got hit only at the end of his career. But Norton, Frazier, those guys, they got hit 3, 4, 5 times more than Ali, Jesus. How come they don't have Parkinson's disease?!?! My father, who passed away six years ago, had Parkinson's disease for 27 years and the reason why they don't blame boxing is only because he never boxed. If he had been a boxer, they would've said it was the boxing (laughs). When I first came here, two things happened to me and Cus used to use them as examples all the time. We went to a funeral of this very old guy and Cus says `this guy was never a great fighter, he was a `banger' and he got knocked down 35 times in one fight and he got knocked out eight times in a row in two weeks!' You know this was in the 1920's and 1930's. When he died, he was 105 years old! He died of old age. I couldn't believe it -- this guy gets beat to shit in the ring and dies of old age. Amazing.
Then one time, I'm talking to a friend of Rocky Graziano's, and I said, `Rocky talks funny'.' He says to me, `you know, we grew up together (Rocky and him) and if you listened to him before he started fighting, you wouldn't have been able to understand him. Since he's been boxing, he talks a little better.' (laughs)
So as a result of those experiences, I'll tell you what I did. When Ali went to Africa to fight Foreman, I went to the Bowery in NY to interview bums. I talked to 35 or 40 bums. By the way, I would say 80% to 85% of these bums knew me. They'd see me and say, `hey - Jose Torres'. I told them I wanted to talk to them abut the fight and they knew about it. Everyone knew. I talked to them and 50% of them picked Ali! Fifty percent of them picked Foreman. So the last line of the article I wrote for the NY Post said, `the funny thing about this is that 50% of the bums in the Bowery are going to be right' (laughs) and then you have guys like Pacheco and Albert who are supposed to be experts if they say who will win. So half of the bums are right. So the point I was making is that, what, only one guy picked Ali to win (journalist) but half the bums were right! I thought Foreman was going to win. In the first round, I knew that Ali would beat Foreman, and I'll never forget that. I was very happy. I wanted Ali to win because he was my favorite but I thought he would get knocked out. That fight taught me, I used to think Ali was unbeatable. He's so fornicating smart. He's an artist, a magician. He does everything wrong! He used to pull back from punches. That is equal to you being on train tracks with the train coming and you don't want to be hit so you move to one side to get off the tracks. Ali moved back. And the train never caught him. He's a fornicating magician, that's the way I explain it. So when this fight happened, I forget this whole philosophy. Then after about two minutes into the first round, I said to myself, Ali cannot lose this fight."
DI: "What if Foreman had the mental make-up that he has now?"
JT: "I wrote a piece on that for a magazine. I claimed that Foreman is a better fighter now than when he was young."
DI: "He's so relaxed now in the ring. Before he was so stiff and tight."
JT: "That's right. Exactly. Well, now at this point in time, he's not the best fighter. He has too much money and he's not a kid anymore. The reason all those old fighters are coming back is George. This question of these guys being allowed to fight is real conflict to me. I believe that Robert Duran could still beat 60% to 65% of the fighters available today. (laughs) I would have trouble as a commissioner turning down anyone for a boxing license because we are superseded by our constitutional rights. We cannot discriminate."
DI: "What is your feelings on all the controversy and hoopla about Don getting inducted to the Hall of Fame?"
JT: "Don King is the premiere promoter of the last 20 years. You cannot ignore that. In those 20 years fighters, some fighters, have suffered because of Don King and it is not King per say. Let me give you an example: Cus D'Amato was being interviewed one time, and he was asked what he thought of Bob Arum. Cus says, `Bob Arum is the worst human being in the sport of boxing.' They said, `Cus, what do you mean?', `what about Don King?' He says, `I have not dealt with Don King but God cannot make the same mistake twice.' Now taking that into consideration, Cus was such a decent guy with his fighters . . . by the way, let me add here, Cus never . . . I made close to a million bucks as a fighter in 11 years with Cus and he never took a penny of any of my purses. Never. Because he was making money with Floyd. He used to say, `if I took your money, I'd have to give it to the IRS anyhow.' When he died, I was there. He said that about Arum because of a deal Cus had with him involving Tyson and Arum backed out. Cus said, `you have a contract, you can't back out.' So Arum says, `sue me!' Lou Duva, one of my favorite boxing guys, Arum and King, and any other boxing promoter, they are there because of business, not because they love fighters. They function based on boxing not boxers. Boxing is what makes money for them. Champions come and go, but boxing remains. The only thing is with Don King, he brags about it. The other guys, they keep quiet about it. They have been sued by fighters also, not just Don King. But it's not fair for a promoter to make more on a fight than a fighter. That's absurd. But I am going to let you know that I am working on something now. I'm working on organizing boxing. I'm getting so much help. There's a man from Minnesota, Paul Johnson, who works for the ALF CIO and he has been working for the past several years on unionizing boxing. To give the fighters a voice, power, autonomy, independence and I say, `oh, I hope before I die, I can see that.' I'm thinking very seriously about talking about that in my speech tomorrow. (He did) I believe that the promoters, t.v., the boxing organizations - they should not mind that. Because it gives a voice to the fighters who have always just been manipulated."
DI: "That sounds a lot better than the Federal regulation that is being talked about now. How could involving the government help clear anything up?"
JT: "The Federal regulation never even mentioned promoters. It only stated that commissioners being part of an international organization is a conflict of interest. The WBO, of which I was president, is working on getting rid of all these guys."
DI: "Now, speaking of promoters, Don King's has got his golden egg coming up - Tyson/Holyfield II. Do you think there's any way Tyson can pull himself together and win that fight?"
JT: "Yeah. I'm sure that's gonna happen. I love Evander Holyfield. I probably have some feeling in my heart for Mike Tyson, who I met when he was 12 years old. I was the first champion he met besides Muhammad Ali, who he met when he was in jail. He used to love my wife's cooking, he used to come to my house and stay with us before he was champion, while he was champion, after he was champion. I don't know if I am still attached to him."
DI: "What do you think Cus D'Amato would think about Mike Tyson now?"
JT: "I don't talk to Tyson because I think he betrayed Cus, not because of anything else. To me it is inconceivable that any fighter who was trained by Cus could betray him."
DI: "If Tyson loses this rematch and he just ended up on a downhill spiral and retired or just ended up not being able to compete at the level he once did, can you think of a greater waste of talent?"
JT: "Oh my God. He had the potential to be incredible. He had the potential to be even as great as Muhammad Ali."
DI: "Many people believed before his incarceration that he was right up there with the all time greats. But if he loses this fight . . ."
JT: "Oh no, that's it, he's a bum. Absolutely, absolutely."
DI: "Jose, again, congratulations and thank you so much for your time."
JT: "You're very welcome."
I want to again thank Jose Torres for his generosity and also my boxing goomba, Mike "Mad dog" DeLisa for assisting me in this interview.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Lester Young
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Rick Farris
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 7200
- Joined: 15 Feb 2008, 16:04
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Thanks. Good reading, a positive boxing reality.kikibalt wrote:Thanks Tom, for posting that lick to the story on ol' Cut & shoot Harris.
Btw I seen that fight live, was about 10 rows back from the ring
-Rick Farris
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mM4Xm4NwN7U
"Goin' To The River"
"The Fat Man" Fats Domino
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ0Q8383FFU
"One Night"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDctGVDpHY4
"So Long"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmFEwdr4e1I
"Three Nights A Week"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdjLINBYEPc
"Valley Of Tears
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4JeTUEDQTg
"I Got A Right To Cry"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3041kBbxGM
"Blue Monday"
"Goin' To The River"
"The Fat Man" Fats Domino
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ0Q8383FFU
"One Night"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDctGVDpHY4
"So Long"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmFEwdr4e1I
"Three Nights A Week"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdjLINBYEPc
"Valley Of Tears
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4JeTUEDQTg
"I Got A Right To Cry"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3041kBbxGM
"Blue Monday"
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Jose Torres dies at 72; former light heavyweight world champion
By Associated Press
Reporting from Ponce, Puerto Rico -- Jose Torres, a former light heavyweight world champion and Olympic silver medalist, died Monday of a heart attack at his home in Ponce, Puerto Rico, according to his wife, Ramonita. He was 72.
Torres won the light heavyweight title in 1965 by stopping Willie Pastrano at Madison Square Garden in New York. He made three title defenses before losing a close decision to Dick Tiger in 1966. He finished with a record of 41-3-1, with 29 knockouts.
The mayor of Ponce, on the island's southern coast, declared three days of mourning and ordered flags be flown at half-staff.
"Puerto Rico has lost a great Puerto Rican, a very valiant person who aside from being a great athlete, was a great human being," David Bernier, president of the U.S. territory's Olympic committee, told radio station WKAQ.
A native of Ponce, Torres was born May 3, 1936. He began fighting when he joined the U.S. Army boxing team as a teenager to avoid KP duty. He won a silver medal as a light middleweight at the 1956 Melbourne Olympics while competing for the United States. He lost the title bout to Hungary's Laszlo Papp.
He debuted in 1958 with a first round knockout of George Hamilton in New York. He won his next 12 fights, 10 by knockout.
After retiring in 1969, he worked for several years as an aide to Paul O'Dwyer, who was then president of the New York City Council. He later worked for Andrew Stein, the borough president of Manhattan. He also was Puerto Rico's official representative in New York City.
Torres chaired the New York State Athletic Commission in the 1980s and served as supervisor for the World Boxing Organization.
In the 1990s, he fueled controversy while an aide to Mayor David N. Dinkins when he said that then-mayoral candidate Rudolph Giuliani appealed to the Ku Klux Klan.
Early in his career, he became friendly with several well-known writers, including Pete Hamill, who at the time wrote for the New York Post. With Hamill's help, Torres got a column in the Post that mostly dealt with Latino community affairs. Years later, Norman Mailer helped Torres write a book on Muhammad Ali, called "Sting Like a Bee." For several years, Torres would spar three rounds with the older Mailer.
Torres later wrote "Fire and Fear," a book on Mike Tyson, and for a time was a regular columnist for El Diario La Prensa, a Spanish-language newspaper in New York.
He was inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame in 1997.
Torres will be buried Thursday in Ponce.
[email protected]
By Associated Press
Reporting from Ponce, Puerto Rico -- Jose Torres, a former light heavyweight world champion and Olympic silver medalist, died Monday of a heart attack at his home in Ponce, Puerto Rico, according to his wife, Ramonita. He was 72.
Torres won the light heavyweight title in 1965 by stopping Willie Pastrano at Madison Square Garden in New York. He made three title defenses before losing a close decision to Dick Tiger in 1966. He finished with a record of 41-3-1, with 29 knockouts.
The mayor of Ponce, on the island's southern coast, declared three days of mourning and ordered flags be flown at half-staff.
"Puerto Rico has lost a great Puerto Rican, a very valiant person who aside from being a great athlete, was a great human being," David Bernier, president of the U.S. territory's Olympic committee, told radio station WKAQ.
A native of Ponce, Torres was born May 3, 1936. He began fighting when he joined the U.S. Army boxing team as a teenager to avoid KP duty. He won a silver medal as a light middleweight at the 1956 Melbourne Olympics while competing for the United States. He lost the title bout to Hungary's Laszlo Papp.
He debuted in 1958 with a first round knockout of George Hamilton in New York. He won his next 12 fights, 10 by knockout.
After retiring in 1969, he worked for several years as an aide to Paul O'Dwyer, who was then president of the New York City Council. He later worked for Andrew Stein, the borough president of Manhattan. He also was Puerto Rico's official representative in New York City.
Torres chaired the New York State Athletic Commission in the 1980s and served as supervisor for the World Boxing Organization.
In the 1990s, he fueled controversy while an aide to Mayor David N. Dinkins when he said that then-mayoral candidate Rudolph Giuliani appealed to the Ku Klux Klan.
Early in his career, he became friendly with several well-known writers, including Pete Hamill, who at the time wrote for the New York Post. With Hamill's help, Torres got a column in the Post that mostly dealt with Latino community affairs. Years later, Norman Mailer helped Torres write a book on Muhammad Ali, called "Sting Like a Bee." For several years, Torres would spar three rounds with the older Mailer.
Torres later wrote "Fire and Fear," a book on Mike Tyson, and for a time was a regular columnist for El Diario La Prensa, a Spanish-language newspaper in New York.
He was inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame in 1997.
Torres will be buried Thursday in Ponce.
[email protected]
-
dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
-
dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ENf4VEhI40kikibalt wrote:Jose Torres dies at 72; former light heavyweight world champion
By Associated Press
Reporting from Ponce, Puerto Rico -- Jose Torres, a former light heavyweight world champion and Olympic silver medalist, died Monday of a heart attack at his home in Ponce, Puerto Rico, according to his wife, Ramonita. He was 72.
Torres won the light heavyweight title in 1965 by stopping Willie Pastrano at Madison Square Garden in New York. He made three title defenses before losing a close decision to Dick Tiger in 1966. He finished with a record of 41-3-1, with 29 knockouts.
The mayor of Ponce, on the island's southern coast, declared three days of mourning and ordered flags be flown at half-staff.
"Puerto Rico has lost a great Puerto Rican, a very valiant person who aside from being a great athlete, was a great human being," David Bernier, president of the U.S. territory's Olympic committee, told radio station WKAQ.
A native of Ponce, Torres was born May 3, 1936. He began fighting when he joined the U.S. Army boxing team as a teenager to avoid KP duty. He won a silver medal as a light middleweight at the 1956 Melbourne Olympics while competing for the United States. He lost the title bout to Hungary's Laszlo Papp.
He debuted in 1958 with a first round knockout of George Hamilton in New York. He won his next 12 fights, 10 by knockout.
After retiring in 1969, he worked for several years as an aide to Paul O'Dwyer, who was then president of the New York City Council. He later worked for Andrew Stein, the borough president of Manhattan. He also was Puerto Rico's official representative in New York City.
Torres chaired the New York State Athletic Commission in the 1980s and served as supervisor for the World Boxing Organization.
In the 1990s, he fueled controversy while an aide to Mayor David N. Dinkins when he said that then-mayoral candidate Rudolph Giuliani appealed to the Ku Klux Klan.
Early in his career, he became friendly with several well-known writers, including Pete Hamill, who at the time wrote for the New York Post. With Hamill's help, Torres got a column in the Post that mostly dealt with Latino community affairs. Years later, Norman Mailer helped Torres write a book on Muhammad Ali, called "Sting Like a Bee." For several years, Torres would spar three rounds with the older Mailer.
Torres later wrote "Fire and Fear," a book on Mike Tyson, and for a time was a regular columnist for El Diario La Prensa, a Spanish-language newspaper in New York.
He was inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame in 1997.
Torres will be buried Thursday in Ponce.
[email protected]
Going Home
Dvorak
Last edited by dagosd2000 on 19 Jan 2009, 23:02, edited 2 times in total.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
A beautifull song,a beautifull voicekikibalt wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6BzfL8GPzk
"A Change Is Gonna Come"
The late great Sam Cook
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
dagosd2000 wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ENf4VEhI40kikibalt wrote:Jose Torres dies at 72; former light heavyweight world champion
By Associated Press
Reporting from Ponce, Puerto Rico -- Jose Torres, a former light heavyweight world champion and Olympic silver medalist, died Monday of a heart attack at his home in Ponce, Puerto Rico, according to his wife, Ramonita. He was 72.
Torres won the light heavyweight title in 1965 by stopping Willie Pastrano at Madison Square Garden in New York. He made three title defenses before losing a close decision to Dick Tiger in 1966. He finished with a record of 41-3-1, with 29 knockouts.
The mayor of Ponce, on the island's southern coast, declared three days of mourning and ordered flags be flown at half-staff.
"Puerto Rico has lost a great Puerto Rican, a very valiant person who aside from being a great athlete, was a great human being," David Bernier, president of the U.S. territory's Olympic committee, told radio station WKAQ.
A native of Ponce, Torres was born May 3, 1936. He began fighting when he joined the U.S. Army boxing team as a teenager to avoid KP duty. He won a silver medal as a light middleweight at the 1956 Melbourne Olympics while competing for the United States. He lost the title bout to Hungary's Laszlo Papp.
He debuted in 1958 with a first round knockout of George Hamilton in New York. He won his next 12 fights, 10 by knockout.
After retiring in 1969, he worked for several years as an aide to Paul O'Dwyer, who was then president of the New York City Council. He later worked for Andrew Stein, the borough president of Manhattan. He also was Puerto Rico's official representative in New York City.
Torres chaired the New York State Athletic Commission in the 1980s and served as supervisor for the World Boxing Organization.
In the 1990s, he fueled controversy while an aide to Mayor David N. Dinkins when he said that then-mayoral candidate Rudolph Giuliani appealed to the Ku Klux Klan.
Early in his career, he became friendly with several well-known writers, including Pete Hamill, who at the time wrote for the New York Post. With Hamill's help, Torres got a column in the Post that mostly dealt with Latino community affairs. Years later, Norman Mailer helped Torres write a book on Muhammad Ali, called "Sting Like a Bee." For several years, Torres would spar three rounds with the older Mailer.
Torres later wrote "Fire and Fear," a book on Mike Tyson, and for a time was a regular columnist for El Diario La Prensa, a Spanish-language newspaper in New York.
He was inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame in 1997.
Torres will be buried Thursday in Ponce.
[email protected]
Going Home
Dvorak
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Heavyweight boxing contender Jerry Quarry jumping rope under the watchful eye of his brother Jimmy (2R) & co-mgr. Johnny Flores (R) at the side of sparring ring as guests watch from folding chairs placed around the perimeter during his training at Caesar's Palace, L.V. Nv.
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Rick Farris
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 7200
- Joined: 15 Feb 2008, 16:04
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
And directly behind Jerry, sitting on the edge of the ring, is Quarry's sparring partner, "Big Dave" Centi.kikibalt wrote:
Heavyweight boxing contender Jerry Quarry jumping rope under the watchful eye of his brother Jimmy (2R) & co-mgr. Johnny Flores (R) at the side of sparring ring as guests watch from folding chairs placed around the perimeter during his training at Caesar's Palace, L.V. Nv.
As a kid, the great thing for me being part of the Johnny Flores stable, was getting souvenirs from places where Jerry Quarry would train. Johnny would bring back t-shirts from "Ceasars Palace" and "Grossingers" resort in the Catskills, where Jerry would set up training camp for his big ones. I'd see photos of the world's best wearing these t-shirts in major boxing magazines, etc. I appreciated Johnny doing that for me.
At this time in boxing history, Johnny Flores managed one of the world's best heavyweights, in one of the divisions greatest eras. Viet Nam was raging, the Beatles were into their "acid" years, Ali's career was on hiatus, Emile Griffith ruled the middleweights, Mando Ramos owned Los Angeles and had his sights set on the world, I was still in the juniors, Frank was running the Jr. GG's.
Things were good . . . hot fun in the summertime.
-Rick Farris