"Sometimes, Great Old Fighters Who Appear To Be Shot...

[Goodnight, Irene]

...can pull together one last, great performance," as D'Amato once said. Instances through history?

Leonard against Hagler

Ali against Spinks (borderline call, as Spinks was complete rubbish)

Holyfield against Tyson, & again against Lewis in their second-go around

Foreman against Holyfield (more competitive throughout than against Moorer)

Holmes against Mercer

Frazier against Ali

Morales against Diaz

Hopkins against Pavlik

[Flump]

Holmes - Mercer

Charles - Marciano

Nelson - Leija III

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

...can pull together one last, great performance," as D'Amato once said. Instances through history?

Leonard against Hagler

Ali against Spinks (borderline call, as Spinks was complete rubbish)

Holyfield against Tyson, & again against Lewis in their second-go around

Foreman against Holyfield (more competitive throughout than against Moorer)

Holmes against Mercer

Frazier against Ali

Morales against Diaz

Hopkins against Pavlik

--- Only great old guy performances listed are Foreman/Evan Field and Hopkins/Pavlik which was a true unexpected masterclass performance if we strike the usual Popkins fan club insisting he's unbeaten and beaten the 7 Sundays out of every fighter he's ever faced.

Leonard ran in the largest ring in boxing history against a clearly overtrained overanxious Hagler who gave away too many concessions to make a credible fight of it. NOT a great performance.

Ali was only notable because he got into decent shape, but it was against Leon. Crimony, just about everyone looks Godzilla against Leon and Ali could only just keep up. Not great.

Evan Field had just turned 34 with only 17 heavy fights to his credit ain't no old guy against Tyson, c'mon! He was never really competitive from a boxing standpoint against Lewis, he just represented a threat to the much misrepresented glass chin of Lewis. Lewis only looked bad because of conservative tactics didn't play into fan's desire to see a slugfest.

Holmes only won a political decision against Mercer who almost popped Larry's chicken neck in half that fight. Mercer a bad boy of boxing did himself few favors winning over fans and boxing establishment in his career, sort of a post prison Tyson lite. Holmes looked much better against Evan Field who had his punch and confidence shattered by Foreman and could barely crack a peanut open by then.

Frazier was a few years younger than Ali and ages and experience were well matched all through that series.

Morales got beat up Rocky style by Diaz who has the misfortune of being easy to cut and swell because of his come forward with poor defense brawling style.

It's an injustice to list these other bouts with the superlative performance by Foreman and and in particular Hopkins whom I'm a huge critic of normally.[/quote]

[dempseyfire]

...can pull together one last, great performance," as D'Amato once said. Instances through history?

Leonard against Hagler

Ali against Spinks (borderline call, as Spinks was complete rubbish)

Holyfield against Tyson, & again against Lewis in their second-go around

Foreman against Holyfield (more competitive throughout than against Moorer)

Holmes against Mercer

Frazier against Ali

Morales against Diaz

Hopkins against Pavlik

--- Only great old guy performances listed are Foreman/Evan Field and Hopkins/Pavlik which was a true unexpected masterclass performance if we strike the usual Popkins fan club insisting he's unbeaten and beaten the 7 Sundays out of every fighter he's ever faced.

Leonard ran in the largest ring in boxing history against a clearly overtrained overanxious Hagler who gave away too many concessions to make a credible fight of it. NOT a great performance.

Ali was only notable because he got into decent shape, but it was against Leon. Crimony, just about everyone looks Godzilla against Leon and Ali could only just keep up. Not great.

Evan Field had just turned 34 with only 17 heavy fights to his credit ain't no old guy against Tyson, c'mon! He was never really competitive from a boxing standpoint against Lewis, he just represented a threat to the much misrepresented glass chin of Lewis. Lewis only looked bad because of conservative tactics didn't play into fan's desire to see a slugfest.

Holmes only won a political decision against Mercer who almost popped Larry's chicken neck in half that fight. Mercer a bad boy of boxing did himself few favors winning over fans and boxing establishment in his career, sort of a post prison Tyson lite. Holmes looked much better against Evan Field who had his punch and confidence shattered by Foreman and could barely crack a peanut open by then.

Frazier was a few years younger than Ali and ages and experience were well matched all through that series.

Morales got beat up Rocky style by Diaz who has the misfortune of being easy to cut and swell because of his come forward with poor defense brawling style.

It's an injustice to list these other bouts with the superlative performance by Foreman and and in particular Hopkins whom I'm a huge critic of normally.

[/quote]

Holmes won a 'political decision' vs Mercer . . .

Now I have heard them all.

[Flump]

...can pull together one last, great performance," as D'Amato once said. Instances through history?

Leonard against Hagler

Ali against Spinks (borderline call, as Spinks was complete rubbish)

Holyfield against Tyson, & again against Lewis in their second-go around

Foreman against Holyfield (more competitive throughout than against Moorer)

Holmes against Mercer

Frazier against Ali

Morales against Diaz

Hopkins against Pavlik

--- Only great old guy performances listed are Foreman/Evan Field and Hopkins/Pavlik which was a true unexpected masterclass performance if we strike the usual Popkins fan club insisting he's unbeaten and beaten the 7 Sundays out of every fighter he's ever faced.

Leonard ran in the largest ring in boxing history against a clearly overtrained overanxious Hagler who gave away too many concessions to make a credible fight of it. NOT a great performance.

Ali was only notable because he got into decent shape, but it was against Leon. Crimony, just about everyone looks Godzilla against Leon and Ali could only just keep up. Not great.

Evan Field had just turned 34 with only 17 heavy fights to his credit ain't no old guy against Tyson, c'mon! He was never really competitive from a boxing standpoint against Lewis, he just represented a threat to the much misrepresented glass chin of Lewis. Lewis only looked bad because of conservative tactics didn't play into fan's desire to see a slugfest.

Holmes only won a political decision against Mercer who almost popped Larry's chicken neck in half that fight. Mercer a bad boy of boxing did himself few favors winning over fans and boxing establishment in his career, sort of a post prison Tyson lite. Holmes looked much better against Evan Field who had his punch and confidence shattered by Foreman and could barely crack a peanut open by then.

Frazier was a few years younger than Ali and ages and experience were well matched all through that series.

Morales got beat up Rocky style by Diaz who has the misfortune of being easy to cut and swell because of his come forward with poor defense brawling style.

It's an injustice to list these other bouts with the superlative performance by Foreman and and in particular Hopkins whom I'm a huge critic of normally.

[/quote]

I dunno what fight you were watching mate, but I'd venture you're on your own.

[observer1]

Hopkins v Pavlik comes to mind.

Hopkins is nowhere near what he was during his MW era, and to see him school somon like Pavlik so clinically was insane

[Goodnight, Irene]

"--- Only great old guy performances listed are Foreman/Evan Field and Hopkins/Pavlik which was a true unexpected masterclass performance if we strike the usual Popkins fan club insisting he's unbeaten and beaten the 7 Sundays out of every fighter he's ever faced.

Leonard ran in the largest ring in boxing history against a clearly overtrained overanxious Hagler who gave away too many concessions to make a credible fight of it. NOT a great performance.

Ali was only notable because he got into decent shape, but it was against Leon. Crimony, just about everyone looks Godzilla against Leon and Ali could only just keep up. Not great.

Evan Field had just turned 34 with only 17 heavy fights to his credit ain't no old guy against Tyson, c'mon! He was never really competitive from a boxing standpoint against Lewis, he just represented a threat to the much misrepresented glass chin of Lewis. Lewis only looked bad because of conservative tactics didn't play into fan's desire to see a slugfest.

Holmes only won a political decision against Mercer who almost popped Larry's chicken neck in half that fight. Mercer a bad boy of boxing did himself few favors winning over fans and boxing establishment in his career, sort of a post prison Tyson lite. Holmes looked much better against Evan Field who had his punch and confidence shattered by Foreman and could barely crack a peanut open by then.

Frazier was a few years younger than Ali and ages and experience were well matched all through that series.

Morales got beat up Rocky style by Diaz who has the misfortune of being easy to cut and swell because of his come forward with poor defense brawling style.

It's an injustice to list these other bouts with the superlative performance by Foreman and and in particular Hopkins whom I'm a huge critic of normally." - BRR

You're wrong on every count, & glib about it.

[allworld80]

I personally didn't consider Hopkins shot. He looked bad in the 2nd part of the Calzaghe fight, but his domination of Pavlik certainly wasn't expected.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Keep in mind, the wording is, "...fighters who appear to be shot..." ala Holyfield when he first beat Tyson. They don't necessarily have to be so. Prior to Pavlik, almost everyone agreed Hopkins was reduced to spoiler-level, & was not the same man who decimated Trinidad in a career-defining performance.

[jaclem2]

....okay.."appear to be"....max schemling wasn't a shot fighter but he was considered past his prime and just one more kayo victim on louis' march to the heavyweight title...and max fooled the experts....not his last fight.....but i think it bears mention on this thread.

[My2Sense]

I think we just saw one tonight.

[harrygreb]

yessir

[giacomino]

Duran vs Moore, Duran vs Barkely

[allworld80]

Prior to Pavlik, almost everyone agreed Hopkins was reduced to spoiler-level, & was not the same man who decimated Trinidad in a career-defining performance.

Really? I thought he actually he actually turned heads with the wins over Wright and Tarver, both of whom he was underdogs against. And then with the way he started against JC, I thought he was still in the mix. The boxing community has a way of trying to get rid of someone or dismiss them on a whim.

[My2Sense]

Prior to Pavlik, almost everyone agreed Hopkins was reduced to spoiler-level, & was not the same man who decimated Trinidad in a career-defining performance.

Really? I thought he actually he actually turned heads with the wins over Wright and Tarver, both of whom he was underdogs against. And then with the way he started against JC, I thought he was still in the mix. The boxing community has a way of trying to get rid of someone or dismiss them on a whim.

Agreed 100%.

I've never seen any basis at all for dismissing him as "shot". Past his prime maybe, but never "shot".

[p4p1]

I think we just saw one tonight.

was it that mosley was "shot" or the way marg beat cotto that made him such the underdog