Froch/Taylor - Offer From America!!!

[Autobarn]

So Taylor has the Showtime date.

Showtime want Johnson or Froch.

Johnson looks like he's out (if he ever was in the running).

So now it's Froch, or Andre Ward/Andre Dirrell. Ward already has a fight.

Froch potentially loses big recognition fight. Taylor potentially loses Showtime date and title shot. Get your heads together, DiBella and Hennessy!

[Chambers2]

If this is the case about ITV then I wonder if the Froch camp will take what Taylor is offering - At the moment it looks as though it is unlikely, but would that be a mistake on the part of Froch?

I think so.

Yeah (as a fan) I'd like to see them take the Taylor fight, but I do think that DiBella and Taylor will be trying to take the piss in the negotiations after being spoilt with HBO money for the last half a decade.

I hope the Hennessey camp aren't relying on something coming from the purse bids, because that's not looking likely.

It's not the end of the world if nothing comes of the Taylor fight though as there are plenty of other quality fighters in the division to choose from, especially if Froch fancies a trundle over to Germany

[Twinkle Toes]

I don't think it is right that Froch should be getting the piss taken out of him with the purse either, but sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture - A convincing win over Taylor, and all of a sudden it's him that can have the weight of a US network behind him.

Miranda is throwing his hat into the ring now, so the Hennessey camp need to make sure they get this decision right, and that is to take the fight.

[Autobarn]

One of DiBella's terms is it has to be in Taylor's home state, I think.

[Chambers2]

I don't think it is right that Froch should be getting the piss taken out of him with the purse either, but sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture - A convincing win over Taylor, and all of a sudden it's him that can have the weight of a US network behind him.

Miranda is throwing his hat into the ring now, so the Hennessey camp need to make sure they get this decision right, and that is to take the fight.

I agree about 'the bigger picture', Froch should be willing to to sacrifice some purse for the greater good of his career, but I can totally understand why Mick and Carl don't want to be walked over in the negotiations especially when Carls the one with the belt and he's the one who's willing to travel

Miranda would be a very good alternative to Taylor though as he's also well known stateside and that fight should be able to go out in Nottingham, maybe Showtime would pick up the fight on a delayed basis as with the Pascal fight.

[CheckHook]

Froch needs to take this fight regardless of the purse split. If he gets a chance to get Taylor in the ring then he has to take it. The fact is Taylor doesn't need Froch or his world title. Froch needs Taylor, he needs the exposure and name value that Taylor brings. Taylor has plenty of options other than Carl. He proved that by taking the Lacy fight in a none title bout rather than fighting Froch. I really hope this fight comes off otherwise I can see Froch defending his belt against a string of no name mandatories for the next few years while the other names at 168 fight it out for the #1 spot.

[Chambers2]

Yeah, Miranda will be desperate to get out here won't he?

Stu, British boxing needs to do a bit of a Copernicus turn and recognise that this is not the centre of the universe. Sure we have had some success but our two biggest exports had to have their biggest fights outside of these shores (aside from Lacy running head first into defeat and Tszyu thinking he could get an easy cheque). Why would Miranda or Taylor come to Nottingham to fight Froch? They could just fight each other and wait for WBC machinations, or a Froch injury, to ensure that they would be fighting for some form of WBC strap.

I will take Spud's claims with a pinch of salt, it is sad if true but it could be one of those Internet claims that never comes in fruition. If it does it will be sad to see Mick without a TV backer, but it also means that it leaves Froch with no alternative, he will have to go to Taylor, the US and Showtime, and take what is given.

Carl cannot really go Showtime and say "I'll fight Miranda, but you have to drag your arses over to Nottingham" to cover the bout, they will just put Taylor-Miranda together instead, and more Americans will watch it.

Froch could end up another inactive Hennessey promoted WBC title holder, who we only hear about when other title holders are fighting. I hope this is not the case, he may just have to go abroad in order to smoke some cowboy boots.

I didn't for 1 second think that that Maggot Taylor would travel to Nottingham, but Miranda has done some travelling in his career and maybe, just maybe, he may want to fight for a World title. It's all obviously dependent on Hennessey being able to raise the wonga to get him over here.

It's way too early to be righting Froch off as another inactive Hennessey promoted WBC title holder, give the bloke a chance he only won the title 6 weeks ago and Froch is alot easier to promote than Junior is

[Chambers2]

I thought that Froch could still get UK air time with ITV, it's just that they won't be shelling out much money for it, but it's a very grey area at the moment.

The 'cross-eyed Maggie' scenario ( ) is a possible scenario and it's a concern to me as well, but it's way too early to be making such assumptions with any accuracy IMO.

Taylor and probably more so DiBella are Maggots as I get the impression that they're taking the piss in the negotiations (I'd love to know what % of the dollar is going to each fighter). This may be me being biassed and/or naive, but from the comments Mick and Carl have been making over the past month or so I get the impression that they really want the fight as they like the rest of us know that it's a good career move.

I wonder if the whole Hennessey camp (Froch in particular) are exclusively contracted to ITV camp or whether they could approach Setanta to see if they have the funds and the willingness to back Froch.

One thing that Froch and Mick have got going for them is that the division has plenty of quality fighters in it, so that must increase their chance of avoiding the Maggie-Cyclops. I think there are a fair few boxers that could face troubling times over the next couple of years and pay demands are going to have to alter across the board if we're going to get decent fights on (HBO moving away from PPV's, TV stations feeling the squeeze, less punters with wonga for live boxing matches etc.).

Like plumbers, sparkies, brickies and chippies, boxers have been spoilt over the past few years and now they're going to have to feel the pinch like the rest of us

[Autobarn]

Hopefully Froch and Taylor can find some middle ground after negotiations.

Miranda calling out taylor - Miranda brutally KO'd by Arthur Abraham already. Decent name though, and a fight a year/year and a half out of date.

If none of those happen, I can't see things being TOO bad. There are lots of decent WBC ranked contenders. Just a matter of finding one who is hungry enough to take the shot. I'm thinking Dirrell or Marcus Johnson. Karo Murat's out of the picture as he's rematching Sanavia for the EBU title. Tsypko is down to fight Bute, I think, so perhaps Stieglitz - not too bad for a 1st defence.

A good replacement for Inkin was found eventually (Pascal) so here's hoping that if Taylor doesn't happen, someone interesting is brought in.

[THEBUTCH]

If Froch does end up fighting Taylor next it's bound to end up in America, and the good news is Froch has gone on record as saying he's prepared to travel there. The "bigger picture" phrase being used by a few posters is spot on. Sometimes you have to risk to gain and IMO that's what Froch could be looking at.

If Carl gets a voluntary first defence granted, I can't see ITV having any problem screening that. It's when it comes to Taylor where the problems begin.

I feel for Hennessy Sports. They did a grand job on the BBC first time round, but the Beeb spunked most of their dosh on Audley Harrison, and now it seems Hennessy could pay the price for arriving at ITV after SN have probably overcharged ITV for the shite they were putting on before sodding off to Sky.

Hennessy, however, is resillient and adaptable and despite the constant cold water pouring, he has delivered well, often under very challenging circumstance. I'm optimistic for Froch and several others in the camp. As long as they keep dedicated and live up to their promise, Hennessy will come through for them.

[leforge]

I think itv are showing the 28th and 14 march shows of hennessy.

[fatton]

I think itv are showing the 28th and 14 march shows of hennessy.

Yes I don't think there is any question here regarding ITV's commitment to boxing. When Froch is in the big fights and they have to start in the small hours of the morning (either because their in the US or they start times are adapted to suit US tv) then ITV will always have a problem as they can't generate advertising revenue in the small hours. This is why Calzaghe ended up on Setanta. Sure ITV will be cutting back like most firms in the current climate but I don't see any danger of them pulling the plug.

I think Spud's just scare mongering after Dennis Hobson had the door closed in his face by ITV. Dennis had previously said he had a deal with ITV to cover Woods and Tony Jeffries debut. Then again this is the same guy that said he had a 6 fight deal with Setanta previously.

[Chambers2]

Mick Hennessy has dismissed Lou DiBella's claim that he has yet to reply to an offer made to him by the American promoter regarding the proposed super-middleweight showdown between Carl Froch and Jermain Taylor.

Froch claimed the vacant WBC title with a thrilling points win over the previously undefeated Jean Pascal in December and his mandatory challenger is Taylor, who became the organisation's number one contender by defeating Jeff Lacy the month before.

Nottingham native Froch has long expressed his willingness to take on former middleweight king Taylor and had hoped to fight 'Bad Intentions' for the WBC title before being paired with Pascal instead.

The fight appeares to be edging ever closer to materialising but Hennessy has become increasingly frustrated by DiBella.

Indeed, Hennessy was left particularly incensed by the insinuation that he has been ignoring DiBella's offers.

”It's rubbish. There have been offers going backwards and forwards. I’ve made offers to them but they’re not even acknowledging them so for them to say that they’ve not even heard from me is ridiculous," he told setanta.com.

"I only spoke to him a couple of days ago and told him where I was at.

"But the problem here is that there’s a date in America for March 28 and while we are interested in going to the US, right now we’ve got to make sure that date tallies up with the UK rights for the fight because it’s short notice and broadcasters make their schedules well in advance. So that’s what we are working on at the moment.

"I’m talking to all of the broadcasters and if we sort that issue out, and the deal works out, then we are prepared to go and fight in the US on March 28."

However, Hennessy believes it would make more financial sense for everyone concerned to stage the bout in England.

"They’re saying they’ve made a good offer but we’ve made an offer to them which is probably close to two and a half times what they’ve offered us. And bear in mind here that we’ve got the champion," he reasoned.

"My offer is for him to come over Nottingham, probably in April.

"But, in saying that, there's no problem with the dates or the venue really as we're also prepared to go to the US if the deal is right. We told them what we wanted to come to the US and they turned it down.

"Still, we'll have to try to sort out the UK rights to make the fight happen in The States and if we're happy with that we'll go out on the 28th.

"But look, this is what purse bids are for. If negotiations aren't working and someone's being unreasonable, well, that's where purse bids come in: they're the fairest way of sorting situations out.

"And if they have any respect for the WBC they will honour the purse bids process. I mean, they're talking about fighting someone else; what sort of rubbish is that?

"This is the WBC title we're talking about here."

Indeed, Hennessy is baffled by DiBella's tactics and is unsure of whether his rival actually wants to agree terms on the bout.

"It's my personal opinion but I don't think they want the fight," he confessed.

"But they're in a position now where they know that this is the best fight out there. This is the main fight that American TV wants, they prefer it above all others.

"So, they're in a real predicament now. They have to make this fight happen.

"However, they can't say to us, 'It's going to be where we want and you have to accept the money that we want.' We have the champion here."

In spite of the ongoing war of words, Hennessy remains upbeat that the match will be made. But if it does not, he will call on the WBC to take action against Taylor and DiBella.

"The fight should still happen," he mused. "But, at the end of the day, Jermain Taylor had the chance to fight Carl Froch on a 50-50 split and he reneged on his position. He pulled out and took a way easier fight against Jeff Lacy.

"So now, if he pulls out of this purse bid process I don't think the WBC should ever entertain him or his promotional outfit ever again because, as far as I'm concerned, that would be showing a serious disrespect for the title."

Looks like DiBella was talking shit about Hennessey not responding to him. If Mick is offering Taylor 2 and a half times what DiBella is offering Froch, then I can totally understand where the problems have come from


The below is from that Michael Marley bell end

Riverboat gambler Lou DiBella has declared Jermain Taylor-Carl Froch for the WBC super middleweight title to be a dead hand.

According to DiBella, Froch promoter Mick Hennessy overplayed his financial hand and had mainly jokers in his deck.

So you can now mark down Taylor-Froch as the second important international boxing match to wind up in the trash bin this week.

“I don’t think Hennessy and Forch want to be champion of the world,” DiBella said late Wednesday, “what they want is to be the sheriff of Nottingham. I made it clear to Mick over a week ago that we were not going to England to fight and that we would not fight off American TV (Showtime).

“This $1.6 million offer they made today was not even followed up by a phone call. It’s a mirror offer of what I offered Froch over a week ago to come to the US. My offer was $650,000 plus they could keep their British TV money (about $800,000 from terrestrial network ITV). And I was letting Hennessy take a few sponsorhip slots.

“In America, there is no difference between Taylor-Froch or Taylor against Bozo The Clown. There is no gold mine involved here. Showtime would only do the fight if it was live and not delayed from the UK.”

DiBella said the Friday WBC purse bid is not an empty exercise and that Froch will stay at home with an optional defense. Taylor, he said, may fight DBE-promoted Allan Green or someone similar.

“It’s not happening but maybe Jermain will fight Froch after they both fight someone else.”

Same old story of one camp saying one thing and the other camp saying another

[Pugilist-specialist]

I think itv are showing the 28th and 14 march shows of hennessy.

Yes I don't think there is any question here regarding ITV's commitment to boxing. When Froch is in the big fights and they have to start in the small hours of the morning (either because their in the US or they start times are adapted to suit US tv) then ITV will always have a problem as they can't generate advertising revenue in the small hours. This is why Calzaghe ended up on Setanta. Sure ITV will be cutting back like most firms in the current climate but I don't see any danger of them pulling the plug.

I think Spud's just scare mongering after Dennis Hobson had the door closed in his face by ITV. Dennis had previously said he had a deal with ITV to cover Woods and Tony Jeffries debut. Then again this is the same guy that said he had a 6 fight deal with Setanta previously.

Hennessey did announce a 2 year deal covering 26 shows.
Surely the problem is for promoters now trying to get a deal.

[Autobarn]

Well it looks like they won't fight on March 28.

Taylor v Allan Green? Ugh...& it looks like neither Taylor nor Froch will gett he Showtime time.

If Froch has an optional, hopefully it's against someone good. No Antwun Echols, Rubin Williams. Hopefully someone in the WBC rankings OR someone hungry, exciting.

Bika might not be bad. Many see him as a bad fight. I don't necessarily. This guy is a slim (if strong) former middle and Froch could make an impression if he could stop him. Zuniga also - had Kelly Pavlik down, jolted Inkin numerous times, feels he was robbed...

Time for Froch to build up his profile, by knocking out someone interesting. Then the Taylor fight will happen eventually.

Froch does need a win over someone like Taylor, so that he can get the rival champs in the ring.

[boxingchat]

Isn't it about time ther Promotors themselves put their hands in their pockets ?
Many of the calculations I've seen for boxing promotions over the years always seem to exclude any front end investment from the Promotor.
The maths all seem to be based upon the TV revenue - ie what can we get from TV rights ? - ok that's what we have to spend.
Aside from this I expect there are a few boxers seriously having to consider their allegiance.
If the ITV rumours are true, then sadly Fight Academy really has its back against the wall.
Where does that leave Clinton Woods ?
Likewise, Carl Froch (probably the most loyal UK boxer) has a dliemma.
The wrong side of 30, secured a prestigious belt, and a Promotor seemingly with no TV deal.
Then there's Junior Witter - hardly marketable with a TV deal, so without one. who knows.
I echo Spud's views.
Boxing and a lack of TV investment is like being a Championship football team without a home ground.

The opening line of this post is probably the most ridiculous and ignorant line I've ever seen on here. Find me a Promoter who hasn't put his hand in his pocket and I'll show you a Jesus's autograph!

Once again, a discussion taking place between people who really know nothing about the business they pretend to be experts in. Spud especially deals in rumour-mongering and not hard facts and knows less than nothing. I bet that every Promoter last year when all shows were considered lost considerable amounts of money. I'm talking proper Promoters here not HAtton and Calzaghe who invest nothing and just take. When there are losses, where do you think the money comes from? You lot really have a lot to learn.

[banjo]

ignorant line I've ever seen on here.

Speaking of which

I'm talking proper Promoters here not HAtton and Calzaghe who invest nothing and just take.

Invest nothing?

I think investing your health is a much riskier investment than a few million pounds don't you?

[THEBUTCH]

The form so far shows, IMO, that Taylor's people thinks the world revolves around them and are keen to take as easier option as possible. Taylor opts for a burnt out Lacy, Froch gets a fit and fired up Pascal !

The true test will come down to purse bids. Hennessy seems fine with this, let's see what DiBella does if it does comes to purse bids.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Isn't it about time ther Promotors themselves put their hands in their pockets ?
Many of the calculations I've seen for boxing promotions over the years always seem to exclude any front end investment from the Promotor.
The maths all seem to be based upon the TV revenue - ie what can we get from TV rights ? - ok that's what we have to spend.
Aside from this I expect there are a few boxers seriously having to consider their allegiance.
If the ITV rumours are true, then sadly Fight Academy really has its back against the wall.
Where does that leave Clinton Woods ?
Likewise, Carl Froch (probably the most loyal UK boxer) has a dliemma.
The wrong side of 30, secured a prestigious belt, and a Promotor seemingly with no TV deal.
Then there's Junior Witter - hardly marketable with a TV deal, so without one. who knows.
I echo Spud's views.
Boxing and a lack of TV investment is like being a Championship football team without a home ground.

The opening line of this post is probably the most ridiculous and ignorant line I've ever seen on here. Find me a Promoter who hasn't put his hand in his pocket and I'll show you a Jesus's autograph!

Once again, a discussion taking place between people who really know nothing about the business they pretend to be experts in. Spud especially deals in rumour-mongering and not hard facts and knows less than nothing. I bet that every Promoter last year when all shows were considered lost considerable amounts of money. I'm talking proper Promoters here not HAtton and Calzaghe who invest nothing and just take. When there are losses, where do you think the money comes from? You lot really have a lot to learn.

Whilst I know it's true that promotions is a really tough business, and that it's bloody hard to make a living from - I am sure that the top promoters aren't losing money year on year, they simply wouldn't be able to sustain it. I'm sure Mr Warren isn't in the business of pissing his money down the drain.

Fighters have certainly become the power brokers in boxing however, these days the sums trading hands to fighters are pretty insane, and I'm sure that the promoter doesn't always recoup the outlay. Fighters as promoters as well, often seems to be merely a means to pay themselves well at the end of their careers, rather than giving a cut to a promoter.

I'm not sure for instance that the money exists to pay Hatton and Pacman what they think they're worth. I mean, even with casino money, is the fight going to be big enough on PPV to warrant 40 million? A lot of the purse will be made up of viewing figure revenue of course, but their basic wage bill is going to be astronomical.

[Spud]

Spud especially deals in rumour-mongering and not hard facts and knows less than nothing. I bet that every Promoter last year when all shows were considered lost considerable amounts of money. I'm talking proper Promoters here not HAtton and Calzaghe who invest nothing and just take. When there are losses, where do you think the money comes from? You lot really have a lot to learn.

Boxing Tw*t,

Your post of course deserves reply!!!

I actually do know SOME of what is going on with ITV & Boxing - a little more than you give me credit for but naturally I would not embarass the poor chaps who I and others have quotes from!!!

I do not want to get in with a "p*ssing" contest with you on the issues I have dealt with in this thread - there are parts of your post indeed contain some very good points - especially the ones about promoters losing money on the shows they continually showcase their fighters in - there is certainly no intent of "scaremongering" in my post or spreading malicious rumours - my intent is to magnify the very real seriousness of the credit crunch and the impact its clearly going to have on boxing - especially when promoters consider what possible income they have coming from TV income when considering "purse bid" situations or indeed enticing "big name" fighters to the UK.

Its a simple fact "Boxing Tw*t" that TV are no longer willing to pay the high sums which promoters previously received for showcasing their fights unless it is a "marquee" name - the problem terrestrial TV have is that they simply do not have a pot to p*ss in - if this point is one you and others think I am completely wrong in - lets see the big names that box on our main terrestrial screens in world title fights in 2009.

Seen as this thread is about Carl Froch - lets see what big names ITV are willing to dip their hands into their pockets to pay to fight Carl Froch.

I am certainly not gloating or mocking any promoter who loses his contract or is affected by the loss of TV revenue as the BIG loser is boxing - so please do not twist this thread into some b*llocks against me.

I would love to see Carl Froch box in major fights on our terrestrial channels - but fear him and others who want to fight in major world leading fights may have to travel to get that exposure - or as you have put in another way the promoter is going to have to dig very deep into his pockets for what will be large and I mean large sums of money.

Boxing Tw*t - for a change I completely concur with what you are stating concerning promoters dipping their hands into their pockets - but unfortunately due to the loss in revenue from advertising and serious cutbacks on the terrestrial channels - boxing on the terrestrial network is going to be cut back!!! - lets unfortunately see who is right or wrong!!!

[DavidPayne]

Boxing is a competitive industry. Television is a ultra-competitive industry in a state of transition. Look at the pressure on CH4 to merge with Five or BBC Worldwide. Its an ebbing pot of money as advertisers stretch shrinking budgets across more media formats.

If Taylor v Froch isn't worth what both are asking, they'll take short money elsewhere away from TV against weaker opponents no doubt.

Perhaps if they took short money from TV they'd still be on it.

They take the risks I know.

But being a world-champion is especially meaningless if you cant get fights.

You're worth what someone will pay today, not six months ago.

[Poncey]

Keep the thread civil or there will be reprocussions.

This is a boxing forum, not a playground.

[Chambers2]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/others ... Froch.html

There's not much substance in this article, but the headline is 'Calzaghe eyes Cardiff farewell fight with Froch'

[Bard of Boxrec]

They need to get Edison Miranda in there PRONTISSIMO!