Who has the weaker chin - Amir Khan or David Haye?

[dondada]

Stu Jones thinks it's a 'hard call' although he concedes the evidence points towards Khan.

Over the years I've been on here, I've found Stu to be pedantic and bloody minded at times, deliberately taking up causes that have little merit and going on about them for several posts which annoys me greatly.

Apart from that, he's great.

So, I'll leave it to you lot.

I don't think it's a hard call at all. Khan by a mile. He has been rocked to his boots by non-punchers or punchers who have barely touched him. Yes, Prescott would demolish a lot of people - so you can take that out of the equation if you like.

I'm sure someone will come on here and pick Haye apart. His chin is his weakness but there's little comparison with Khan. Haye has been tagged clean by hard punchers and shaken it off. Khan has never done this.

[Twinkle Toes]

Khan, although not by a lot.

[kevo]

Khan by a country mile

[overhand_right]

Crazy thread.

David Haye goes down but gets up to win, via knockout. He also comes back against world class opponents.

Its domestic super-feathers who have decked Khan, and the one world class guy he faced splattered him across the mat for the full count.

Stupid, stupid, stupid thread.

[GlobalBox]

Its not Haye's chin thats the problem its the temple shots that do for him, actually don't think his chin is that bad but catch him on the temple and he is struggling.

I like Amir but I have to say his chin is very poor.

So answer to the question is Khan

Got there in the end

[tonyevs]

I totally agree with you .. on both points

[J]

khan
end.

[gobbles]

Crazy thread.

David Haye goes down but gets up to win, via knockout. He also comes back against world class opponents.

Its domestic super-feathers who have decked Khan, and the one world class guy he faced splattered him across the mat for the full count.

Stupid, stupid, stupid thread.

that's not all quite true is it?

Khan was knocked down by as an amateur by Craig Watson (now a pro welterweight), and as a pro by Drilzane (light-welter, although he actually tripped over the bottom rope), Limond (fair enough), Gomez (fair enough) and Prescott.

Haye was knocked out as an amateur by Jim Twite (a pro super-middleweight/light-heavyweight), and knocked down as a pro by Lolenga Mock (journeyman super-middleweight), Carl Thompson (certainly not world class at that point), Mormeck (fair enough) and Monte Barrett (world class??).

While I would say that Haye has better punch resistance than Khan, the general hatred for Khan on this board and love of Haye means the comments are often very skewed.

Obviously with the exception of Prescott, Khan got up to win. WIth the exception of Thompson and Twite, Haye did the same.

[jayc]

i was genuinely surprised at this thread - although reading it i now realise why it was posted Ian. Khan has a much worse chin than haye, although i do worry about hayes resistance at heavyweight.

[stujones]

Me pedantic - you must be joking

I do though disagree with your little rant about me "delibrated" taking the cause of something that has little or no merit. Perhaps you feel if has little or no merit, but I don't and have never discussed the opposite view point on anyone just to wind them up, which I interpret as "delibrately" taking the cause. Always believed what I have said, sometimes maybe they have been with a HUGE minority - and thats why I feel I need to defend my point, even if it bores you shitless.

I'll be pedantic again and say that I said "hard to say" not "close to call" - there is a difference in those terms. I don't think Haye has been caught clean by as big a puncher P4P as Prescott. Although, at the same time - will Prescott's power be as effective if he caught, say Nate Campbell as cleanly?

[dondada]

Crazy thread.

David Haye goes down but gets up to win, via knockout. He also comes back against world class opponents.

Its domestic super-feathers who have decked Khan, and the one world class guy he faced splattered him across the mat for the full count.

Stupid, stupid, stupid thread.

Have you actually read my message? I agree with you. I hope this thread highlights those who make a case for Khan having a comparable or even better chin are in the vast minority. The thread itself isn't stupid. Well, I don't think so. And if YOU do, what the f*ck are you doing posting on it?

[dondada]

Me pedantic - you must be joking ...

I'll be pedantic again and say that I said "hard to say" not "close to call" - there is a difference in those terms.

Good one, Stu.

'Little rant'? Moi?

You have always been both pedantic AND deliberately contradictory. You do contribute a hell of a lot to this board in a constructive way too, though. My contention is that there is nothing 'hard to say' about it. It's as clear as a crystal chin.

[dondada]

Crazy thread.

David Haye goes down but gets up to win, via knockout. He also comes back against world class opponents.

Its domestic super-feathers who have decked Khan, and the one world class guy he faced splattered him across the mat for the full count.

Stupid, stupid, stupid thread.

that's not all quite true is it?

Khan was knocked down by as an amateur by Craig Watson (now a pro welterweight), and as a pro by Drilzane (light-welter, although he actually tripped over the bottom rope), Limond (fair enough), Gomez (fair enough) and Prescott.

Haye was knocked out as an amateur by Jim Twite (a pro super-middleweight/light-heavyweight), and knocked down as a pro by Lolenga Mock (journeyman super-middleweight), Carl Thompson (certainly not world class at that point), Mormeck (fair enough) and Monte Barrett (world class??).

While I would say that Haye has better punch resistance than Khan, the general hatred for Khan on this board and love of Haye means the comments are often very skewed.

Obviously with the exception of Prescott, Khan got up to win. WIth the exception of Thompson and Twite, Haye did the same.

I can't really comment on Twite - never seen it. OK, look. Just take the ones that you consider to be 'fair enough' for Khan. Limond can't punch. Why he didn't press forward for a stoppage after the knockdown (long count too!) God only knows. Gomez hardly tagged him at all and down he went.

I seem to recall that Mock caught Haye on the temple which can give bother to anyone. He was completely exhausted against Thompson - it had nothing to do with his chin. And Barrett can bang.

As I've said before, my antipathy to Khan is not personal. I find him to be the worst example of what is wrong with the general promotion of British boxing.

And, as far as I'm concerned, I find it hard to believe that a genuine boxing fan could dislike Haye (as a fighter). Will fight anyone, anywhere, crash, bang, wallop. Complete breath of fresh air.

[Stiff right hand]

Khan for me. With Haye the concearn is much about his stamina as his chin.

[tonyevs]

[quote="Ian 'Mr' McNeilly]

As I've said before, my antipathy to Khan is not personal. I find him to be the worst example of what is wrong with the general promotion of British boxing.
And, as far as I'm concerned, I find it hard to believe that a genuine boxing fan could dislike Haye (as a fighter). Will fight anyone, anywhere, crash, bang, wallop. Complete breath of fresh air.[/quote]

Once again .. I totally agree on both points.

[Chambers2]

Khan!

[Autobarn]

Let's see if Khan can come back and cope with things like knockdowns, against someone good. Then maybe there'll be a debate.

Haye's chin does let him down which will probably be catastrophic at heavyweight, but you have to admire him for testing himself.

First, Amir will have to fight a lightweight...roll on...

Almost isn't a fair debate - Haye will be taking shots from world class, up to 6'7, 250-pound heavies, Khan will be fighting 35 yos and super featherweights.

[stujones]

Well, honest - its not a "delibrate" contradictory - in the definition that I said in my post. As this post in not attempting to be "delibrately" contradictory. I'm defending my POV. I'm not sure what posts especially have annoyed you. But my views on Calzaghe etc have remained consistent.... maybe cause they are contraditory - that I feel the need to repeat or something, cause I feel an important point (usually with my old enemy Terrence) has not been taken up in his reply.... I have certainly not said "Oh Terry thinks Tyson is not as good as Lewis, I Know I'll big up Tyson in a reply"... I've bigged up Tyson, cause I think he would have beaten him prime for prime.

My contention with it - is that with only 1 stoppage defeat each against them... its hard to say, although the fact Haye was on his feet would suggest Haye. I would like to see Khan's reaction when faced with a puncher of Mormeck/Thompson level (p4p) first - cause I think Haye's reaction in those fights were worst than Khan's against Limond/Gomez - who are lighter punchers than Thompson/Mormeck. I think Prescott hits harder than anyone Haye has been caught against P4P.

[J]

based on what?

ask seb rothmann in the fight before Haye faced Thompson who he thinks hits harder.
(for the guy saying the cat wasnt world class at thsi stage, rothmann went on to narrowly lose a dispiited verdict against cunningham in his next fight)

you have seen prescott once maybe a u tube vid of him and he destroys a chinny guy and kos a bunch of stiffs in south america and he is a p4p puncher all of sudden vs a proven ko artist whose career spans over ten years.

fornicate me there is some shit spraffed on here.

[stujones]

Let's see if Khan can come back and cope with things like knockdowns, against someone good. Then maybe there'll be a debate.

Haye's chin does let him down which will probably be catastrophic at heavyweight, but you have to admire him for testing himself.

First, Amir will have to fight a lightweight...roll on...

Almost isn't a fair debate - Haye will be taking shots from world class, up to 6'7, 250-pound heavies, Khan will be fighting 35 yos and super featherweights.

Thats kind of my point with it being "hard to say" - I'd like to see Khan's reaction when caught against someone like Graham Earl - whose Power I rate on a similar level to Mormeck/Thompson in a P4P sense. Similarly, had Haye had the "opportunity" (cannot think of a better word, but I am sure you'll know what I mean) to take a clean shot from Enzo... then it would have been interesting (as Enzo has similar power P4P as Prescott IMO).

[J]

greame earl? fuckinell.

when did grame earl ever do this to someone?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUaVTXyj ... =1&index=2

graeme earl was domestic level and yet you are comparing his p4p power with the former undisputed cruiserweight champ

thats how ridiculous you sound Stu.

sorry mate but this is pure nonsense. It may be your point of view but its nonsense pure disney.

[dondada]

My contention with it - is that with only 1 stoppage defeat each against them... its hard to say, although the fact Haye was on his feet would suggest Haye. I would like to see Khan's reaction when faced with a puncher of Mormeck/Thompson level (p4p) first - cause I think Haye's reaction in those fights were worst than Khan's against Limond/Gomez - who are lighter punchers than Thompson/Mormeck. I think Prescott hits harder than anyone Haye has been caught against P4P.

This is what I mean, Stu. You're like a starving dog with a rotten bone. You won't leave it alone even though it's shite.

So...Haye's reactions against Mormeck and Thompson were worse than Khan's against Limond and Gomez...?

It's like saying Arsenal let two in against both Chelsea and Aston Villa; Darlington only let one in against Mansfield and Brentford so they have a case at having a stronger defence. I know you don't like football so that one will have passed you by.

Anyway, the whole point of the poll was so I avoided getting into silly arguments with you. It's impossible to make you see sense because you always justify the unjustifiable to yourself.

[banjo]

Khan by a mile, Haye has his moments but when a 200lb man hits you then it is going to stun you isn't it?

[gobbles]

I can't really comment on Twite - never seen it. OK, look. Just take the ones that you consider to be 'fair enough' for Khan. Limond can't punch. Why he didn't press forward for a stoppage after the knockdown (long count too!) God only knows. Gomez hardly tagged him at all and down he went.

I seem to recall that Mock caught Haye on the temple which can give bother to anyone. He was completely exhausted against Thompson - it had nothing to do with his chin. And Barrett can bang.

As I've said before, my antipathy to Khan is not personal. I find him to be the worst example of what is wrong with the general promotion of British boxing.

And, as far as I'm concerned, I find it hard to believe that a genuine boxing fan could dislike Haye (as a fighter). Will fight anyone, anywhere, crash, bang, wallop. Complete breath of fresh air.

I can't see how any British boxing fan would dislike Khan. It would be an interesting excercise to compare boxing before and after the Athens Olympics. It was Khan's success and huge popularity that got boxing back on terrestrial TV, got boxing on the back pages of the newspapers, got thousands of kids interested in boxing, got millions of lottery money given to our sport.
It seems many people on here just want to spend all their time knocking the popular or just knocking allegedly and would prefer boxing to be a fringe event, because it makes their own role more important. Yet some of the same people are so prepared to give Hennessy a free ride. If "the worst example of what is wrong with the general promotion of British boxing" is Khan (or I suppose the hype around Khan), then what about the empty hype about Tyson Fury, who did not achieve a fraction of what Khan did at a younger age as an amateur, or Froch, who was calling out Calzaghe when he was fighting eight-rounders and Steve Bunce used to call the "greatest prospect in world boxing" - a title Hennessy now gives to Fury?

As for the Gomez fight, Khan was obviously off balance and it was a flash knockdown.

As I said, I don't believe Khan has a better chin than Haye. However, I find it strange that people on here, who are supposedly interested in boxing want him to fail.
He got knocked, he went to American to do something about it and is taking on a huge challenge in Barrera. They might be very different fighters, but someone that compares him to in my mind is Nigel Benn, who was all but out against a nobody called Logan at the Albert Hall and then completely exposed by Michael Watson. He went of to America and came back a completely changed man.

As for the later comment about Graham Earl - while he might have been shot when he fought Khan, he did beat Romanov, who completely slaughtered Jon Thaxton, and also put Katsidis on the floor.

[stujones]

based on what?

ask seb rothmann in the fight before Haye faced Thompson who he thinks hits harder.
(for the guy saying the cat wasnt world class at thsi stage, rothmann went on to narrowly lose a dispiited verdict against cunningham in his next fight)

you have seen prescott once maybe a u tube vid of him and he destroys a chinny guy and kos a bunch of stiffs in south america and he is a p4p puncher all of sudden vs a proven ko artist whose career spans over ten years.

eff me there is some shit spraffed on here.

Thompson was never a proven one punch KO artist (also look at Thomspon fight after Haye!)... alot of his victories happend late in fights when the opponent was fatiguing. The amount of early KO's he had were surprisingly low, and everytime he stepped up to European class the fight would go long. Thompson was a big Cruiser who was VERY strong, and could punch... but he didn't have "bingo" power, untill the opponent fatigued..

Prescott had an impressive resume of EARLY KO's - yes against Bums, yes - we don't know at what level he will carry the power... thats all part of why I said it is HARD TO SAY. Quite amazing, now he has smashed Khan - there seems to be more doubts about his power. I cannot remember any posts questioning the power of Edwin Valero or a early career Acelino Freitas - if Valero signed to fight Khan a couple of years ago... I'm sure there would have been negativity.

I am saying it is hard to say... In Prescott we could have the next Thomas Hearns, or we could have someone who cannot carry his power into World class. We don't know.