..the smartest thing hagler did in his career was to stay at middleweight. obviously he was at his best at this weight where his best was very good indeed. he was not one of ther stronger middleweights....such as lamotta and frank klaus (from an earlier era) but he was a good boxer puncher with a granite chin.
this idea of fighters moving up is mostly nonsense..with the halfstrep divisions, multiple titles and day before the fight weigh ins. in the past when a fighter moved to a higher division is was almost always because he couldn't make the weight any more. willie pep, sandy saddler....two all-time greats stayed with their featherweight titles...and fought over-the-weight matches but still fought as featherweights in title fights. tony zale was a middleweight throughout his career and no one suggest he would be more hjighly regarded if he moved up to light heavy. sugar ray robinson moved up because he couldn't make 147 any more. ike williams is regarded as an all-time great at lightweight. the fact that he could no longer make the weight and lost to welters in his post-title days doesn't diminish his lightweight status.
these are just a few guys that come to mind as i am writing.....there are many many more examples.
many rate hagler among the all time great middleweights.....no reason to think less of him because he didn't step to a higher division....and he quit when he still had some good fights left in him at 160.
Dwight Muhammad Qawi
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I Feel Fine
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 2097
- Joined: 10 Apr 2007, 16:48
Jaclem, what were you thinking?I Feel Fine wrote:You sure read a hell of a lot into my post... none of which I intended. I didn't even hint at a criticism of Hagler for not moving up, I just said Hagler vs. Qawi would have been a great fight. Jeez.
I can only hope that "I feel Fine" still feels fine after such an imposition of assumption and implication that very nearly is the equivalant of a one man pandemic. Otherwise known as Jaclem.
..gentlemen...gentlemen..please (to quote harry reasoner when gore vidal and wm. buckley went at it years ago during a political convention)..i was not taking issue with mr feel fine's comment at all. i just started musing about hagler and how was more in line with the fighters of an earlier day who tended to settle for titles in one weight division...and then got into some free writing on the subject.
but....i do not think a fight between qawi would have been a competitive one....at his peak qawi would have been too strong for him...although i think hagler was the better fighter pound for pound..
box buzz, of course, will appear on any thread that mentions hagler without a reference to the superiority of monzon and of any light heavyweight with out a a reference to archie moore. this would have been difficult to squeeze in here, so he just had to come on and say SOMETHING.
but....i do not think a fight between qawi would have been a competitive one....at his peak qawi would have been too strong for him...although i think hagler was the better fighter pound for pound..
box buzz, of course, will appear on any thread that mentions hagler without a reference to the superiority of monzon and of any light heavyweight with out a a reference to archie moore. this would have been difficult to squeeze in here, so he just had to come on and say SOMETHING.
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I Feel Fine
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 2097
- Joined: 10 Apr 2007, 16:48
Re: Dwight Muhammad Qawi
I can not think of too many Qawi fights that were not entertaining.
I found the Foreman-Qawi fight entertaining, with Qawi putting up
a good fight and taking it too Foreman. Sure both guys were not
100% but it still made for a game Qawi taking the fight to a hard hitting
Fortress Foreman.
I found the Foreman-Qawi fight entertaining, with Qawi putting up
a good fight and taking it too Foreman. Sure both guys were not
100% but it still made for a game Qawi taking the fight to a hard hitting
Fortress Foreman.
Re: Dwight Muhammad Qawi
Look at Dwight's fighting weight when he was 25 yrs 166!
What a P-4-P monster heda been had he been developed from turning pro at 18!
What a P-4-P monster heda been had he been developed from turning pro at 18!
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overhand_right
- Heavyweight
Re:
dempseyfire wrote:Jaclem, in Senya's mind Qawi-Foreman is some sort of closet-classic.Jaclem wrote:..senya..thanks for wiping away a few cobwebs from my memory. apparently you have a tape of that fight which is more reliable. i do think i am right though about the ending being "unsatifactory" in the minds of the crowd. the announcers too, but the hell with them.
going back to my own memory again...i think at the time i agreed with the crowd.
The fight stunk . . both guys were in bad condition and fought sloppily. Qawi flat out quit.
It was an entertaining fight, Senya is right. Qawi tee'd off on Foreman and landed repeatedly. Foreman was not in horrible shape -- he came in at 235 and looked very trim. Foreman missed repeatedly. It was a fun fight.
Qawi took some big digs and walked away in the 7th -- he was a light-heavy fighting arguably the hardest hitter ever. I'm not going to criticise.
As Qawi told Roy Foreman later "I saw death. I wasn't gonna die in that ring"
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overhand_right
- Heavyweight
Re:
Correct. Eddie Futch and Spinks devised a strategy that wouldn't allow Qawi to do much.Ezzard wrote:As I saw it Spinks' right hand tamed Dwight and stopped him from rushing in. Once Dwight started thinking twice he was never going to win.
But we're both replying to a troll poster anyway.
Re: Dwight Muhammad Qawi
Great fighter Qawi, very underrated.
Great inside technician, quick hands, big power in both hands, and an iron chin. He's very underrated as it was his bad luck that he ran into two of the very best ever, Spinks and Holyfield, on the rise, and cut both his title reigns short.
IMO he was the 2nd best light-heavyweight there's been since Foster, the 1st one of course being Spinks. It was Qawi's bad luck that he happened to be in the same era with arguably the only one that was better.
I'd favor him over anyone in the light-heavy division today - Tarver, Hopkins, Calzaghe, Jones, Dawson, etc.
Great inside technician, quick hands, big power in both hands, and an iron chin. He's very underrated as it was his bad luck that he ran into two of the very best ever, Spinks and Holyfield, on the rise, and cut both his title reigns short.
IMO he was the 2nd best light-heavyweight there's been since Foster, the 1st one of course being Spinks. It was Qawi's bad luck that he happened to be in the same era with arguably the only one that was better.
I'd favor him over anyone in the light-heavy division today - Tarver, Hopkins, Calzaghe, Jones, Dawson, etc.
Re: Dwight Muhammad Qawi
I'd agree with that.My2Sense wrote:Great fighter Qawi, very underrated.
Great inside technician, quick hands, big power in both hands, and an iron chin. He's very underrated as it was his bad luck that he ran into two of the very best ever, Spinks and Holyfield, on the rise, and cut both his title reigns short.
IMO he was the 2nd best light-heavyweight there's been since Foster, the 1st one of course being Spinks. It was Qawi's bad luck that he happened to be in the same era with arguably the only one that was better.
I'd favor him over anyone in the light-heavy division today - Tarver, Hopkins, Calzaghe, Jones, Dawson, etc.
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overhand_right
- Heavyweight
Re: Dwight Muhammad Qawi
Qawi has a good shot over Bob Foster, surely?
Think i'd pick Spinks to ice Foster in a tough fight. Ooh controversial!
Think i'd pick Spinks to ice Foster in a tough fight. Ooh controversial!