Who has the weaker chin - Amir Khan or David Haye?

[J]

Come on, we all know Carl Thompson is a puncher. If he has late power, to put away big, hard nasty fighters like Rothmann, Dunstan, Tafer...then surely he hits very effing hard indeed.

No, mate it's obvious, Prescott is the new Tyson, Willie Limond hits harder -- not only pound-for-pound but actually fecking harder punch for punch -- than Jean-Marc Mormeck, getting dropped by a cuffing slap from Michael Gomez proves that one has a cement chin, Carl Thompson's a powder-puff guy who never stopped a decent fighter in his life & Haye must be chinny because it's the consensus that people around here like him, & because people around here don't like Amir Khan then he's infallible, & of course being a contrarian twat able to pontificate & whine about how nasty everyone is being to a major sports star makes you able to assume the self-righteous "Disgusted from Tunbridge Wells" tone that gobbles has perfected for every single fvcking post & reading two pages of this has made me want to kill myself.

Anything else I missed whilst I was away?

genius!

[stujones]

Wrist - when have I ever said I think Khan has a stronger chin?

I agree with Herol's stance (evidence points to Haye having the stronger chin is what I have maintained throughout), what I said in that it is Hard to say, in that we don't know where Prescott can go, power wise (its unproven, doesn't mean worst, doesn't mean harder than Harder than) , and we don't know how Khan will react against someone of the equivalent Thompson/Mormeck.... we don't know where Prescott will lie. There are lots of we don't knows..... hence my view point hard to say - evidence points to Haye.

J, I appologies if my pompus posts bore you - but if people keep misinterpreting me, then I will respond.... you might think they are not, but I've replied to Wrist who obviously has read what I have said as saying "Khan has the stronger chin" - read Wrists post again.... when have I said that.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Stu Jones thinks it's a 'hard call' although he concedes the evidence points towards Khan.

Over the years I've been on here, I've found Stu to be pedantic and bloody minded at times, deliberately taking up causes that have little merit and going on about them for several posts which annoys me greatly.

Apart from that, he's great.

So, I'll leave it to you lot.

I don't think it's a hard call at all. Khan by a mile. He has been rocked to his boots by non-punchers or punchers who have barely touched him. Yes, Prescott would demolish a lot of people - so you can take that out of the equation if you like.

I'm sure someone will come on here and pick Haye apart. His chin is his weakness but there's little comparison with Khan. Haye has been tagged clean by hard punchers and shaken it off. Khan has never done this.

I'm with you here. Khan seems to be hurt any time someone catches him squarely on the beard with a properly delivered shot.

Whilst Haye isn't exactly granite jawed, he has taken many flush shots previously without going down. In fact, against Thompson, he took many hard shots before going down.

More importantly, Haye has better survival skills than Khan.

[Wrists]

Ok - my apologies........................................ if I did not get what you said to the exact letter, syllable, word, sentence etc etc

Potato potato - your still talking bollocks

[gobbles]

How anyone can say that Khan's chin is better than Haye's is beyond me.

Neither has a stellar set of whiskers but as many say Kahn has been wobbled by non punchers like Limond and the first time he was clocked by a REAL lightweight puncher in Prescott is was all over red rover.

At least Haye has gotten up against the likes of Mormeck and Barrett - both very respectable punchers.

He was hit on the temple against Mock and was stopped ON HIS FEET against Thompson so there's your evidence, his chin is better than Khan's.

Stu - your digging yourself into a hole mate big style.

Regards

Wrists (Kev)

PS. Ian Mc - I see you legendary tolerance for 'bla bla rubbish thread' comments has come racing to the surface again!

Haye was knocked down against Thompson in the 4th, Adam Booth threw in the towel as soon as Thompson landed again in the fifth.

[stujones]

Khan having the stronger chin is laughable. Not watched Gobbles's video clip but assume it is a new angle, from the behind shot Gomez took Khan out of the frame.

It this some kind of elaborate practical joke. What next? Who hits harder: Lennox Lewis or Paul Ryan, with Stu and Gobbles arguing Ryan.

Another one who hasn't understood mine and Gobbles posts? Neither of us have ever said Khan. Gobbles has said that Khan wasn't as badly hurt against Gomez as some have suggested, and the Limond shot was a temple shot (which apparently doesn't count when bringing up Mock)... and I have added Prescott is an unkown commodity - he could be a purely domestic level puncher, or he could be the next Valero - we don't know.

If you would have said "who hits harder Lennox Lewis or Prescott" I would have said hard to say at this stage.

"Chins" are funny things at the best of times - does Samil Sam hit harder than Mike Tyson (Danny Williams might argue yes), did Michael Watson hit harder than Gerald McClellan (Nigel Benn might say yes).

[Chambers2]

Have we all agreed that Amir's got the weaker chin yet?

[J]

fornicate there are some tedious caants on here who cant let arguments go .

its like arguing with your senile old gran who keeps repeating herself over and over again until you just nod your head.

[coneye]

Got me stumped why there's even a discusion on this no brainer

[WildWaylon]

Come on, we all know Carl Thompson is a puncher. If he has late power, to put away big, hard nasty fighters like Rothmann, Dunstan, Tafer...then surely he hits very effing hard indeed.

No, mate it's obvious, Prescott is the new Tyson, Willie Limond hits harder -- not only pound-for-pound but actually fecking harder punch for punch -- than Jean-Marc Mormeck, getting dropped by a cuffing slap from Michael Gomez proves that one has a cement chin, Carl Thompson's a powder-puff guy who never stopped a decent fighter in his life & Haye must be chinny because it's the consensus that people around here like him, & because people around here don't like Amir Khan then he's infallible, & of course being a contrarian twat able to pontificate & whine about how nasty everyone is being to a major sports star makes you able to assume the self-righteous "Disgusted from Tunbridge Wells" tone that gobbles has perfected for every single fvcking post & reading two pages of this has made me want to kill myself.

Anything else I missed whilst I was away?

I am confused.com. Tried to make some sense out of your post but I am completely lost.

[gobbles]

Stu, I cannot honestly say I understand what you and Gobbles are arguing for, against, or if you are even arguing at all, or if you are even speaking English, you could be exchanging archaic Welsh poetry for all the sense you are making.

As for Khan-Limond, Willie opened him up with body shots and head shots, I would post a Youtube snippet if it wasn't for that fact that a) the quality would be shit b) I tend to watch full fights. Khan was so discombobulated he arsed up his own count.

It is hard to say who hits harder P4P out of Lewis and Prescott? Eh? Lewis hit at a higher level, so at this stage the answer would be Lewis, resoundingly. Ditto for the chin question. Amir got knocked out by a relative novice, and stayed down; Haye got knocked down by the premier fighter in his division, and got up to win.

This reminds me of when you refused to accept the idea that Tyson is a bully, going all psychological on me in the face of the common perception/evidence that Tyson is, in fact, a bully. Or that Oscar, whatever it was we argued about in regards to Oscar. You are now flying in the face of the fact that Khan was brutally KO'd and Haye, in his sole defeat, was stopped gamely on his feet. Haye has never been in the type of trouble Khan has been in, he has also mixed at a higher class, so his chin must be better, failing that you will have to argue that Haye's defence is far better, another lost cause, another five page thread.

In fact, why not open a 'David Haye's Willie Pep like defence is masking his chin problems' thread?

The problem is on here, that some people feel the endless need to find a consensus - it's a real mob rule forum. Why does it bother some people that others disagree? What is the point of the original question? Why argue who has the better chin, it just seems an exercise in trying to do down Khan....again. You have your opinions, I have mine. My only arguments on here have been trying to go against the perceived wisdom. On here in the last few days, people have written as fact that Khan was "hammered down" by Gomez, on another thread Khan was accused of running away from a car crash. It could be argued that the problem against Prescott wasn't his, it was that, when hurt, he left himself completely open for a huge follow-up punch. I don't think many people could have stood up to the punch that put him down, the point is not to get hit by it.

Haye has undoubtedly achieved vastly more in his career than Khan. However, Khan is 22 and next up is fighting Marco Antonio Barrera. I, for one, would like to give him more respect than he is given on here.

[terminator]

Didn't Pacman get floored by a jab in a fight against Nedal Hussein?

[WildWaylon]

How anyone can say that Khan's chin is better than Haye's is beyond me.

Neither has a stellar set of whiskers but as many say Kahn has been wobbled by non punchers like Limond and the first time he was clocked by a REAL lightweight puncher in Prescott is was all over red rover.

At least Haye has gotten up against the likes of Mormeck and Barrett - both very respectable punchers.

He was hit on the temple against Mock and was stopped ON HIS FEET against Thompson so there's your evidence, his chin is better than Khan's.

Stu - your digging yourself into a hole mate big style.

Regards

Wrists (Kev)

PS. Ian Mc - I see you legendary tolerance for 'bla bla rubbish thread' comments has come racing to the surface again!

Haye was knocked down against Thompson in the 4th, Adam Booth threw in the towel as soon as Thompson landed again in the fifth.

We know that and at that point Haye could have been pushed over. He was exhausted, nothing at all to do with his chin, he had nothing left.

[Captain Hook]

Khan, just.......but we can only guess anyway so there you go.

[Bard of Boxrec]

"Chins" are funny things at the best of times - does Samil Sam hit harder than Mike Tyson (Danny Williams might argue yes), did Michael Watson hit harder than Gerald McClellan (Nigel Benn might say yes).

are you joking? seriously? williams was rocked badly and could have been stopped in rd 1 vs tyson. benn ditto. how does the fact that they survived and came back mean that the other fighters who stopped them hit harder? god, why am i responding to this?

[Asterix]

It obvious Khan is the answer on what we know so far, and I say that as a fan of both boxers.

With Khan, I'm very worried that his legs wobbled after taking a JAB from Prescott. On the flipside, I'm really glad that his new team have made him take weight off his upper body and transfer it to his legs. It will be interesting to see how much of an effect it has. He looked sturdier against Fagan.

[dondada]

Khan, just.......but we can only guess anyway so there you go.

Just? We don't need to guess due to the FACT that Khan has been on queer street against non-punchers and Haye has taken big shots from hard hitters.

Is this a Welsh thing or what? Selective blindness due to all the hardship you've all grown up with? 8)

[Adamj1987]

it has to be khan he gone donw to people like limond who hasnt got an impressive KO record at SF never minde lightweight
haye goes down from shots to the temple not the chin (see hays knock down against mormeck for proof)

[mrbassie]

Khan obviously. I can't see Willie Limmond dropping Haye.

[MecnunK]

I disagree with some of the crap that gets posted like "a non-puncher" wtf is a non punching boxer?... I guess it could mean that boxer A doesnt consistently punch as hard as Boxer B however it doesnt mean that Boxer A cannot punch as hard as boxer B now and then when his timing, speed and weight transfer come together smoothly and he/she connects to the right part of opponent.

Another thing is that a lot of the times it is usually the cumulative effect of punching that knocks a guy down....(like in some martial arts, the idea is not to try to hit really hard..but hit fast and some many times that the opponent is finished) as well as fitness levels/ balance etc...ok, this did not happen with Khan vs Prescott but it did look like Khan got caught cold ..it can happen with boxers...and the follow ups did look like monster punches that put him on queer street and I think would have put alot of boxers in similar weight class in a difficult position..

With Limond, it wasnt one punch , it was a cumulative combination effect.. against Gomez..it was a flash knock down if I recall correctly..

Overall i agree Khan has a weak chin but I do not think you can compare two guys from different weight classes and say one has the weaker chin than the other. Alot depends on circumstances/opponents and positioning..there are just too many variables to determine that sort of thing which cannot be objectively quantified..

On the other hand we can make some general conclusions about people's punch resistance after seeing them in 20+ fights....you know one person gets knocked out 5 times in 20 fights..but I would argue to even make that kind of comparison the two should be in close weight range..

williams was knocked down how many times by Sinan? and he beat Tyson after receiving a ferocious attack.....yeah tyson is finished, his power is gone..whatever,, etc etc.. it just shows that circumstancial factors can determine on a given day someone taking a punch or going down..

blegh rant over../

[THEBUTCH]

Ridiculous post , but even more ridiculous that some one says Khan can take a punch better than Haye .

[stujones]

I disagree with some of the crap that gets posted like "a non-puncher" wtf is a non punching boxer?... I guess it could mean that boxer A doesnt consistently punch as hard as Boxer B however it doesnt mean that Boxer A cannot punch as hard as boxer B now and then when his timing, speed and weight transfer come together smoothly and he/she connects to the right part of opponent.

Another thing is that a lot of the times it is usually the cumulative effect of punching that knocks a guy down....(like in some martial arts, the idea is not to try to hit really hard..but hit fast and some many times that the opponent is finished) as well as fitness levels/ balance etc...ok, this did not happen with Khan vs Prescott but it did look like Khan got caught cold ..it can happen with boxers...and the follow ups did look like monster punches that put him on queer street and I think would have put alot of boxers in similar weight class in a difficult position..

With Limond, it wasnt one punch , it was a cumulative combination effect.. against Gomez..it was a flash knock down if I recall correctly..

Overall i agree Khan has a weak chin but I do not think you can compare two guys from different weight classes and say one has the weaker chin than the other. Alot depends on circumstances/opponents and positioning..there are just too many variables to determine that sort of thing which cannot be objectively quantified..

On the other hand we can make some general conclusions about people's punch resistance after seeing them in 20+ fights....you know one person gets knocked out 5 times in 20 fights..but I would argue to even make that kind of comparison the two should be in close weight range..

williams was knocked down how many times by Sinan? and he beat Tyson after receiving a ferocious attack.....yeah tyson is finished, his power is gone..whatever,, etc etc.. it just shows that circumstancial factors can determine on a given day someone taking a punch or going down..

blegh rant over../

Agree.

How was Khan in queer street against Gomez, this is something I've debated with Terry straight after the fight. The fact that Gomez that Gomez lost the rest of the round says alot. Khan was so badly hurt, then when Gomez went for it he ended up being pushed back to the ropes -Khan's legs were strong and his head was clear.

Limond did have Khan in queer street yes, but also both guys had put on a pace and were tiring and one of the shots in the combination was a temple shot (that might be the reason why Limond didn't go for it - remember he was almost stopped the round after also).... its okay for Haye to be put over by a temple shot, its okay for Haye to go down through fatigue... but Khan no.

Its hard to make assumptions for the reasons MecnunK pointed out. Are we to say that Lolenga Mock punches harder than Enzo Mac? Is Barry Jones now a world class puncher for flooring Freitas? Is Samil Sam's jab stronger than Tyson's power shots? Does Junior Jones hit harder than Naseem. Its a funny old game and lots of pundits have made preditions on fights based on them previously looking "chinny" and ended up well getting it wrong. Barrera, Freitas, Benn etc - all were considered outsiders in fights and expected to get KO'd.

I don't any of the 5 voters who have picked Khan have posted on this thread, Butch. All some have said is, UNTILL we know more about Khan and also about Prescott, it is hard to call. AT THIS STAGE, evidence points to Haye - yes - AT THIS STAGE!

[THEBUTCH]

Who has the weaker chin - Amir Khan or Antonio Margarito ?


It must be Margarito...Mosley only bounced about 40 right hands flush on his chin before Antonio meakley caved in.

[dondada]

UNTILL we know more about Khan and also about Prescott, it is hard to call.

Can I just refer everyone to the very first post I made on this thread:

"Stu Jones thinks it's a 'hard call' although he concedes the evidence points towards Khan.

Over the years I've been on here, I've found Stu to be pedantic and bloody minded at times, deliberately taking up causes that have little merit and going on about them for several posts which annoys me greatly."

Nuff said (though it won't be, will it?)

[stujones]

UNTILL we know more about Khan and also about Prescott, it is hard to call.

Can I just refer everyone to the very first post I made on this thread:

"Stu Jones thinks it's a 'hard call' although he concedes the evidence points towards Khan.

Over the years I've been on here, I've found Stu to be pedantic and bloody minded at times, deliberately taking up causes that have little merit and going on about them for several posts which annoys me greatly."

Nuff said (though it won't be, will it?)

So I am not aloud to agree when other posters make good points? I am not allowed to respond to OTHER posters who clearly have misread me (e.g. apparently a few different posters since your rant about me still reckon I went for Khan). I might be repeating myself, and it might bore you - but I don't want people to think I voted Khan.... seems like lots think I did and started posting about and making comments on my posts after I said I would stop (cause its all dull and hypothetical) - misreading me etc, so am I not to respond?

And you think I am the only one with this "fault"... note how many times Mr Terrence replies to a so called "dead" subject.... including this one. If anyone has to have the "last word" it is him.... even claiming that EPO didn't have any influence on Shane Mosley's performances just to "win" an arguement.