Spadafora:
He was ranked at Welterweight yesterday - which was correct as he holds no title and last boxed at 140.5 pounds. Today he is set back to Light Welterweight with limit 140 pounds, which is wrong. This is yet better than keeping him at Lightweight, but it doesn't correspond to the rules, boxrec ratings should obey to - does it, Blue?
Montiel:
He was ranked at Super Bantamweight yesterday - which was correct as he holds no title and last boxed at 119 pounds. Today he is set back to Super Flyweight with limit 115 pounds, which is wrong.
Daily switching back and forth is anyway worse. Please define some rules and obey to them.
Spadafora and Montiel - Correct Division?
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computerrank
- Editor
- Posts: 2492
- Joined: 04 Jan 2003, 18:59
I agree with U completely, computerrank. 8)
It’s simple. What did he weigh and what division is it.
OK, I know most fighters fight a couple of pounds above their weight in non important fights.
I use to accept that way of thinking because most rankings do it.
But on BoxRec the weights are there for everyone to see.
If Spadafora weighs 140¼, he’s a Welterweight.
If boxRec wants to keep credibility we-must-not-editorialize.
It’s simple. What did he weigh and what division is it.
OK, I know most fighters fight a couple of pounds above their weight in non important fights.
I use to accept that way of thinking because most rankings do it.
But on BoxRec the weights are there for everyone to see.
If Spadafora weighs 140¼, he’s a Welterweight.
If boxRec wants to keep credibility we-must-not-editorialize.
Last edited by Blue on 03 Jul 2004, 23:00, edited 1 time in total.
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computerrank
- Editor
- Posts: 2492
- Joined: 04 Jan 2003, 18:59
... and again Spadafora is back from Welterweight to Light Welterweight, from where he was moved to Welterweight a day before ...
... and no bout
Please decide, what rules should be obeyed to.
This daily moving is inacceptable.
Can you establish procedures and rules - all editors are commited to, please.
Best regards
Martin
... and no bout
Please decide, what rules should be obeyed to.
This daily moving is inacceptable.
Can you establish procedures and rules - all editors are commited to, please.
Best regards
Martin
Art, I'm afraid I disagree with you here. The only time a lightwelterweight makes 140 when he is fighting for a title. Your reasoning puts all fighters except the champions in the division above the one they should be in. It's a difficult call but I would say a lightwelterweight is from 140 to 146 3/4. I know that's a lot of weight but it's nothing unusual.Blue wrote:But on BoxRec the weights are there for everyone to see.
If Spadafora weighs 140¼, he’s a Welterweight.
If boxRec wants to keep credibility we-must-not-editorialize.
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Eric the Viking
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1354
- Joined: 03 Apr 2003, 21:40
I think that even though it sounds unfair and like unequal treatment on the surface, the rulesfor current titleholders and non-titlists should be different. For title holders, only their weight in their last title bout should count, although there could be some nuance involving what to do if the sanctioning body in question is poor at enforcing mandatory defenses - say if the guy last defended his title at weight X over 12 months ago and fought at some other weight class Y since then in non-title fashion, perhaps he should be automatically listed as Y. Rankings could be done similarly. Another possibility is to allow dual rankings, for ranked fighters who've fought at more than one weight in the recent past. But that opens a potential can of worms there. Here are some examples that illustrate some of the difficulties (this is me thinking aloud more than a desire to be pedantic):
Example 1: In May '93 RJJ beats Hopkins for the vacant IBF Middleweight title. At that point he's a middleweight. His next 3 fights are all non-title bouts basically at supermiddle, so it would make sense to rank him at 168 at that point, as well, but how would you carry his rankings points earned at 160 to 168? You might take the usual ratings points formula but multiply the points from all his fights at 160 by (say)160/168 to generate the ranking at 168, but that seems somewhat arbitrary. Also, Jones goes 370 days post-Hopkins before defending his MW title - after 365 days does he drop out of the MW rankings (and only get ranked at 168) only to be reranked at 160 a week later, or does he stay ranked at 160 because he has a scheduled title defense at the 1-year mark?
Example 2: Ricardo Mayorga. I can't understand why he's still ranked as a welterweight. Yes,he last fought for a title at welter, but he lost, and in his last fight weighed nearly 156 lbs. to his opponent's 155, i.e. fought as a middleweight against a middleweight. His next-scheduled bout is vs. Trinidad, also at middleweight. He's a middleweight.
Example 1: In May '93 RJJ beats Hopkins for the vacant IBF Middleweight title. At that point he's a middleweight. His next 3 fights are all non-title bouts basically at supermiddle, so it would make sense to rank him at 168 at that point, as well, but how would you carry his rankings points earned at 160 to 168? You might take the usual ratings points formula but multiply the points from all his fights at 160 by (say)160/168 to generate the ranking at 168, but that seems somewhat arbitrary. Also, Jones goes 370 days post-Hopkins before defending his MW title - after 365 days does he drop out of the MW rankings (and only get ranked at 168) only to be reranked at 160 a week later, or does he stay ranked at 160 because he has a scheduled title defense at the 1-year mark?
Example 2: Ricardo Mayorga. I can't understand why he's still ranked as a welterweight. Yes,he last fought for a title at welter, but he lost, and in his last fight weighed nearly 156 lbs. to his opponent's 155, i.e. fought as a middleweight against a middleweight. His next-scheduled bout is vs. Trinidad, also at middleweight. He's a middleweight.
John, Art and I agree on the weights. BoxRec has almost 228,000 boxers listed, the majority of which you didn't have the opportunity to rank. "Ranking" a 146 lbs fighter as a lt welter is one thing but 300 years of history "reports" him in the welterweight class. Once a 146 lb fighter retires and someone accesses his record 5, 10 or 20 years from now they will see his last weight at 146 and the division stated as Lt. Welter and they may not understand. I've noticed that there is no field for ranking on older, inactive boxers. This will always be a point of contention with people outside of BoxRec who do not know that you are ranking as opposed to reporting and as fighters retire you will accumalte more and more inconsistances. There is absolutely nothing to explain when I look at an old record and see his last weight at 146 and his division stated as welter.