Writing a boxing book...

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 25 Jun 2004, 09:22

Knockout artist, a talented writer, is considering a book on boxing characters Graham Brett or Ambrose Mendy (or both) and requested a few tips. I had a chat with several journalists - they all agreed the hardest part is getting the door opened in the first place, i.e., finding an agent or publisher (though self-publishing opportunities are available nowadays; I know boxing author Bob Lonkhurst, who wrote a recent book on Terry Spinks, went down that route).
Traditionally, The Writer's Yearbook in any local library has an up-to-date list of all the current agents and publishers. An agent would require an example of your writing, a covering letter (outlining your plans) and, ideally, a CV detailing previous published work.
Publishers would require a few chapters of the book, a covering letter and an impressive CV. So going direct to the publisher is harder. You may wait six months to hear a "no", if you hear anything at all. Publishers, even sports publishers, are arrogant and overloaded.
So agents are the best first port of call. They have contacts in the publishing world and will attempt to secure a publisher for your work.
As for the book itself, obviously you would require a subject with enough 'history' to fill a book. You could write 10 pages on the lives of many people and have nothing more to say.
The market is also vital. Who are you aiming the book at? Boxing fans, sports fans, the public in general? The recent host of "diamond geezer" books caught a niche with the general public (well, mainly middle class family men who longed to be "hard") - but is that market exhausted now? Even mediocre "diamond geezers" like Nosher Powell and Bartley Gorman got in on the act and had their life stories published. Gorman lived in a caravan a few miles down the road from me and was a hedgehog-eating prick.
That leads on to the theme of the book. Someone like Ambrose Mendy could be portrayed as a "diamond geezer" for sure, but also as a victim of circumstances (early poverty, discrimination, etc) who could never shake off his fears of being poor again. Graham Brett is easier: a fine athlete unable to control his addiction to alcholol in the classic George Best mould; allowed it to beat him.
Then comes the real hard work: sitting down and writing the thing. Make no mistake, writing is hard work. Sheer hard work. There's nothing glamorous about writing whatsoever. Like everything in life, what you put into your writing, you get out.

Hope I have been of some help.

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 25 Jun 2004, 09:31

Very helpful, thankyou, Bennie. And very realistic.

My missus is a lady of leisure, I might have a chat with her and see what hours she can put in.

I know that Harry Lansdowne and Alex Spillius wrote a book together on allegedly.

I'm serious about doing it, or shall we say I'm serious about finding out if I can do it.

If anyone wants to do it with me as a joint venture, I have a willing subject in Graham Brett, as I've known him and his family for 20 years. Mendy would be harder, as I dont know him from Adam.

Slapsie Maxie · Post by **Slapsie Maxie** » 25 Jun 2004, 09:41

Although I am new to the board, I have been a book publisher for 20 years and now run my own company

The advice given above is very good.

Ideally, one should work up a synopsis for the idea. This needs to include

1) What the idea is
2) Why it is a good idea ( first book on the subject, recent interest in the person )
3) Who you are
4) Why you are a good person to write the book ( journo background, access to the story etc
5) Sample chapter. Most publishers will need to see a good section of the book to judge style etc

While going via an agent is the best idea, approaching sports specific publishers or those known to publish a wide variety of sporting books ( Mainstream, Robson etc ) is also possible as they have big lists to fill and may be open to submissions of genuine quality. If the idea is not right for them, there is nothing to say that they wont come back to you if another idea crops up once you are on file

Don't worry about suggesting marketing ideas etc. That is the publisher's job

Hope this helps

Slapsie

glittermonkey · Post by **glittermonkey** » 25 Jun 2004, 09:48

If you're serious about going into the business this website is very helpful.

http://www.writersservices.com

You're best bet is to find an agent first, there's a listing of all UK and US agents on the above site. Most agents require the first few chapters or 50 pages or so, just to see your stlye and get a feel for the subject matter. They'll also take up to three months to read your work once you've sent it. So don't expect things to move quickly.

I've just got a little advice, don't expect to make any real money. You'll find that only a very small percentage of writers make decent money early in their careers.

Good luck mate.

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 25 Jun 2004, 09:52

glittermonkey wrote:If you're serious about going into the business this website is very helpful.

http://www.writersservices.com

You're best bet is to find an agent first, there's a listing of all UK and US agents on the above site. Most agents require the first few chapters or 50 pages or so, just to see your stlye and get a feel for the subject matter. They'll also take up to three months to read your work once you've sent it. So don't expect things to move quickly.

I've just got a little advice, don't expect to make any real money. You'll find that only a very small percentage of writers make decent money early in their careers.

Good luck mate.

Thanks for the advice.

I'm not planning on giving up my day business and am doing it out of my interest in both of the characters and my friendship with one of them, together with a mutual love of the sport of Boxing, in Graham's and my case.

In any event it's bound to cost ME money as my interviews with Graham are bound to be in one of the few pubs he is allowed into.

Slapsie Maxie · Post by **Slapsie Maxie** » 25 Jun 2004, 09:58

Most publishers will pay tiny advances ( £5-10k ) unless you are a big name or writing about a big name with serious access to them.

That may sound like a decent amount of money, but it is usually paid in 1/3's on agreement/acceptance of the manuscript and on publication. Also, you wont get any more money until that has "earned out" against your royalties. it is a tough business and many writers often do this for me when they are on staff at papers and magazines or running other businesses.

Do make sure, if you get a deal, to have someone check out the royalty and secondary rights elements in your contract. I try to do good business, but be fair. Some do not.

I am not in sports publishing, but the principle is the same.

Slapsie

glittermonkey · Post by **glittermonkey** » 25 Jun 2004, 09:59

Somehow i didn't think you'd be relaying on it as a primary income. You'd have to be mad to chuck in your job and decide to sit in front of a keyboard for the rest of your natural life.

Hopefully it'll make you a nice little side wage at the least.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 25 Jun 2004, 10:04

Christ, I call publishers arrogant and we've got one on board.
Sorry, mate.

Slapsie Maxie · Post by **Slapsie Maxie** » 25 Jun 2004, 10:08

No worries

I am too stupid to be arrogant

Slapsie

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 25 Jun 2004, 10:19

I'm working on one myself actually, but it's going to be a long time coming. It's going to be a joint effort, as I think it's too much work for one man, even one as talented, brilliant and modest as myself.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 25 Jun 2004, 10:22

You know, Earnie Shavers wanted me to write his life story but I didn't think it would sell in the current boxing climate of multi-world titles and weights.
He goes over to the States, gets it done there and it sells.

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 25 Jun 2004, 10:27

bennie wrote:You know, Earnie Shavers wanted me to write his life story but I didn't think it would sell in the current boxing climate of multi-world titles and weights.
He goes over to the States, gets it done there and it sells.

I went on the mailing list for that. I had to send my details to some gaff in the Wirral. I didnt hear anything after that.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 25 Jun 2004, 10:30

knockout artist wrote:
bennie wrote:You know, Earnie Shavers wanted me to write his life story but I didn't think it would sell in the current boxing climate of multi-world titles and weights.
He goes over to the States, gets it done there and it sells.

I went on the mailing list for that. I had to send my details to some gaff in the Wirral. I didnt hear anything after that.

Yeah, that's where Earnie lives much of the year. Bell him on 0151 606 0677. He's a genuine guy, Earnie...

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 25 Jun 2004, 12:28

Sounds good mate. Just out of interest, what makes you choose Mendy? He was only in the boxing biz 5 minutes as far as I remember.
Though he had some dealings with Duran I recall.
I had to deal with Mendy a few times, trying to sell him space in boxing monthly: nice enough guy, but a nightmare to do business with.
Couldn't get a penny out of him!
He's doing a spot of time now isn't he?

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 25 Jun 2004, 12:40

MightyWarrior wrote:Sounds good mate. Just out of interest, what makes you choose Mendy? He was only in the boxing biz 5 minutes as far as I remember.
Though he had some dealings with Duran I recall.
I had to deal with Mendy a few times, trying to sell him space in boxing monthly: nice enough guy, but a nightmare to do business with.
Couldn't get a penny out of him!
He's doing a spot of time now isn't he?

I chose Mendy because I consider him a remarkable man. (If untrustworthy)

He rose from abject poverty to the top of British Boxing (for a very short while)

He is extemely intelligent and I think he actually likes doing time.

Basically he is a very colurful character whom I would like to find out more about.

So I thought, Why not write a book on him?

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 25 Jun 2004, 12:52

knockout artist wrote: I chose Mendy because I consider him a remarkable man. (If untrustworthy)

He rose from abject poverty to the top of British Boxing (for a very short while)

He is extemely intelligent and I think he actually likes doing time.

Basically he is a very colurful character whom I would like to find out more about.

So I thought, Why not write a book on him?

Look forward to reading it. I get the impression you wont have too much trouble getting him to talk either.