Classic American West Coast Boxing

[dagosd2000]

TOSSIN' IN COINS FOR THE WARRIOR

Sometimes you see a great fight between two warriors that have limited skills ,but unlimited courage. Ebb and flow. Just when one guy ,you think has it won,the other draws from deep inside and rallies back. It doesn't matter who wins. The money being thrown into the ring is for both boys.

Sometimes I wish it would end right there. Especially for the winner. Now he moves up in class. It's at that next level where talent prevails and yesterday's hero is crushed. He can dig deep,but that won't pull him through this time.

I think of Arturo Gatti,on the brink of defeat,coming back with every last ounce of heart to pull it off against tough Mickey Ward. Then it was time for Pretty Boy,and it wasn't so pretty for Arturo.But that's boxing's course. You don't step back after winning.

But like the Gatti's and the forementioned Chuy Chavez,even in defeat,they are revered. Sure ,the money won't be thrown into the ring after lopsided losses,but a respect for those guys with the limited skills,who didn't know how to duck,will always hold a place in our hearts.

Hell,I'll throw the money in anyway.

[Rick Farris]

Rick
Ask your friend Chuy Chavez about his first pro bout. It was in Tijuana at the Jai Lai Palace. I was at that fight. The most thrilling 2 rounds of action I've ever seen. I wrote about that fight earlier in the thread. Thanks,Rog

Hey Roger . . . I'll see him again on thursday.
Your memory is going to make a 67-year-old bantamweight smile
I think this is great, you saw him fight.
I'm going to let him know, and I bet it just might make his day a little better.


-Rick

[Expug]

Rick and Randy, thanks for the kind words.
Im looking forward to seeing you guys in April.
I just got back from a good workout at judo tonight.Im training at a great old dojo in downtown Chicago called Jiu-Jitsu Institute.Its a Judo Dolo with that name as it is the oldest dojo in Chicago.1938.
Rick, another old dojo in Chicago the name of which Ive forgotten , was run by a great old Judoka named Johnny Osaka who is now deceased .He was the guy Gene Lebell beat in the 1954 nationals to win the championship.
Johnny was the heavy favorite . One of the best in the world and Gene beat him.It was huge.
The following year Gene won it again . Beating Osako again . That was held at The Olympic .

[Rick Farris]

Rick and Randy, thanks for the kind words.
Im looking forward to seeing you guys in April.
I just got back from a good workout at judo tonight.Im training at a great old dojo in downtown Chicago called Jiu-Jitsu Institute.Its a Judo Dolo with that name as it is the oldest dojo in Chicago.1938.
Rick, another old dojo in Chicago the name of which Ive forgotten , was run by a great old Judoka named Johnny Osaka who is now deceased .He was the guy Gene Lebell beat in the 1954 nationals to win the championship.
Johnny was the heavy favorite . One of the best in the world and Gene beat him.It was huge.
The following year Gene won it again . Beating Osako again . That was held at The Olympic .

Brian . . . Thanks for that bit of Judo history. I remember now reading about that fight in Gene's book. I'm really looking forward to this tournament. Want to see Gokar's team too, if possible. I'd like to see that Chicago Dojo, one day when I'm in town.


-Rick

[dagosd2000]

Rick and Randy, thanks for the kind words.
Im looking forward to seeing you guys in April.
I just got back from a good workout at judo tonight.Im training at a great old dojo in downtown Chicago called Jiu-Jitsu Institute.Its a Judo Dolo with that name as it is the oldest dojo in Chicago.1938.
Rick, another old dojo in Chicago the name of which Ive forgotten , was run by a great old Judoka named Johnny Osaka who is now deceased .He was the guy Gene Lebell beat in the 1954 nationals to win the championship.
Johnny was the heavy favorite . One of the best in the world and Gene beat him.It was huge.
The following year Gene won it again . Beating Osako again . That was held at The Olympic .

Brian
Remember to let me know when you're coming to San Diego. You can have the spare room and the other car. BTW. My grandson Adam has been taking karate for three years. He's no killer.but the discipline has been good for him. Also,I've told my martial arts friends about the tournament. You'll have a fan club in the stands. Rog.

[dagosd2000]

Street in the Macarena. Seville,Spain. Very typical. Very beautifull.

[dagosd2000]

Alberto Pantoja,Guitar Maker. Made guitars for Segovia,Paco De Lucia,and Trio De Los Panchos. With Adam and Amanda in his shop in the Macarena. His guitars go for 5 to 10 thousand dollars. Makes one a month.

Seville,Spain

[Expug]

Thanks Rog.
I will take you up on your generous offer. Your a good pal.

Rick, ,It would be great to one day show you the dojo here.
You would get along great with the instructor there.
He is one of us for sure.
Man, I would really be thrilled to have the guys on the thread here, and of course their spouses, visit Chicago.
Maybe some day!

Dan and I could show you the town.

[bennie]

This was Mamby at 60. His fight caused some outrage but Mamby was always defensively excellent and keeps himself in trim and nobody is moaning now.

When talking the great jaws of boxing I will always include the name Saoul Mamby. The names he fought and no one could put a dent in him or drop him at his peak. I believe the first time he went down he was already well into his 40s. And for some reason I think it was Rene Arredondo that dropped him after surviving the years with Duran, Cervantes and DeJesus.

Scartissue

Mamby went in with some bad dudes. I remember him saying that Duran really hurt him with a body shot but I don't think many others hurt him.

[kikibalt]

Cesar Chuy Chavez

Country Mexico
Global Id 73198
Division Bantamweight


Career Record © www.boxrec.com

Date Opponent Location Result
1971-12-04 Carmelo Enriquez Long Beach, USA W KO 3
1971-11-11 Lorenzo Maldonado Los Angeles, USA L PTS 4
1971-08-05 Rudy Villagonza Stockton, USA L KO 1
1970-04-28 Antonio Garcia Tijuana, Mexico L KO 2
1970-03-17 Rafael Herrera Tijuana, Mexico L TKO 2
1969-07-22 Rene Boy Honolulu, USA L TKO 3
1969-05-19 Billy Brown San Diego, USA W TD 8
1968-11-01 Pablo Vega Monterrey, Mexico L TKO 1
1968-07-22 Isao Miyashita Tijuana, Mexico W KO 1
1967-02-27 Samuel Castillo Tijuana, Mexico W TKO 2

Record to Date
Won 4 (KOs 3) Lost 6 Drawn 0 Total 10

[kikibalt]

This was Mamby at 60. His fight caused some outrage but Mamby was always defensively excellent and keeps himself in trim and nobody is moaning now.

When talking the great jaws of boxing I will always include the name Saoul Mamby. The names he fought and no one could put a dent in him or drop him at his peak. I believe the first time he went down he was already well into his 40s. And for some reason I think it was Rene Arredondo that dropped him after surviving the years with Duran, Cervantes and DeJesus.

Scartissue

Mamby went in with some bad dudes. I remember him saying that Duran really hurt him with a body shot but I don't think many others hurt him.

With all due respect to Mamby, but I couldn't sit through one of his fights, he bored me to death.

[kikibalt]

Rick, Rog, Dan, guys, remember Beto Maldonado?, have gloves, will travel...


Beto Maldonado

Birth Name Humberto Arispuro
Country Mexico
Global Id 22425
Division Featherweight


Career Record © http://www.boxrec.com

Date Opponent Location Result
1970-07-24 Eddie Mazon San Diego, USA L TKO 6
1970-07-08 Angel Mayoral Las Vegas, USA L PTS 10
1970-02-27 Bobby Rodriguez San Diego, USA W PTS 10
1970-01-26 Billy Brown Los Angeles, USA W KO 4
1969-09-02 Roberto Andrade Honolulu, USA L PTS 10
1969-08-29 Al Ford Edmonton, Canada L PTS 10
1969-06-13 Joey Aguilar San Bernardino, USA W PTS 10
1968-12-12 Jimmy Robertson Los Angeles, USA L PTS 10
1968-07-03 Kuniaki Shibata Japan L PTS 10
1968-03-29 Norio Endo Agana, Guam W PTS 10
1968-02-28 Kuwashi Shimizu Agana, Guam W PTS 10
1967-06-29 Sugar Cane Carreon Stockton, USA L PTS 10
1967-05-16 Curley Aguirre Honolulu, USA W PTS 10
1967-04-10 Alex Benitez Stockton, USA L PTS 10
1967-03-20 Marcello Cid Stockton, USA W PTS 10
1967-01-26 Johnny Perez Stockton, USA L PTS 8
1966-10-31 Ray Coleman Las Vegas, USA L PTS 6
1966-07-26 Bobby Valdez San Diego, USA L PTS 10
1966-02-07 Dwight Hawkins Las Vegas, USA L PTS 10
1965-12-06 Jerry Stokes Los Angeles, USA L PTS 10
1965-05-22 Ricardo Moreno San Jose, USA L KO 7
1965-03-17 Willie Ray Santa Monica, USA W UD 10
1965-02-08 Babe Huerta Santa Monica, USA W TKO 7
1964-08-11 Sid Obart San Diego, USA L PTS 10
1964-06-24 Sid Obart Los Angeles, USA W PTS 8
1964-05-19 Chris Trejo North Hollywood, USA W PTS 6
1964-05-07 Bennie Lira Los Angeles, USA W SD 6
1964-04-28 Mercer Smith North Hollywood, USA L PTS 6
1964-04-10 Lucio Gomez Los Angeles, USA W PTS 6
1964-03-04 Manny Ramirez San Jose, USA L PTS 10
1964-02-13 Lucio Gomez Los Angeles, USA W PTS 5
1963-04-29 Ray Echevarria Hollywood, USA L PTS 6
1963-03-19 Sid Obart San Diego, USA L KO 3
1963-03-04 Ray Lewis Hollywood, USA W PTS 6
1963-02-19 Tony Vasquez San Diego, USA W PTS 6
1963-01-18 Larry Flores Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1963-01-14 Bennie Lira Hollywood, USA L PTS 4
1962-12-28 Miguel Ibarra Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1962-11-19 Gino Hernandez Bakersfield, USA W TKO 4
1962-11-05 Jerry Stokes Hollywood, USA L PTS 6
1962-10-15 Al Miranda Hollywood, USA W PTS 6
1962-10-08 Gino Hernandez Bakersfield, USA W PTS 6
1961-12-18 Eddie Alvarado San Diego, USA W KO 6
1961-11-19 Gino Hernandez Bakersfield, USA W KO 4
1961-10-08 Gino Hernandez Bakersfield, USA W PTS 6
1961-07-04 Danny Brown Honolulu, USA L KO 1
1961-04-06 Quan James Los Angeles, USA D PTS 6
1961-02-23 Alfonso Miranda Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1961-02-09 Johnny Glasgow Los Angeles, USA D PTS 4
1960-12-13 Solly Klein Los Angeles, USA L PTS 4
1960-12-06 Solly Klein Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-11-28 Pantera Cardenas Long Beach, USA W KO 5
1960-11-08 Bernie Montano Los Angeles, USA D PTS 6
1960-10-28 Jimmy Brown Los Angeles, USA W KO 2
1960-09-22 Pancho Loera Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-08-11 Joey Mazon Los Angeles, USA W SD 6
1960-06-30 Frankie Sedillo Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-05-10 Tony Herrera Los Angeles, USA L KO 4
1960-04-07 Maurice Morales Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-04-05 Solly Klein Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-03-08 Pepino Pedro Morales Los Angeles, USA L PTS 4
1960-02-25 Charlie Marshall Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-02-09 Joey Clements Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-01-28 Solly Klein Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-01-21 Charley Driver Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-01-19 Charley Driver Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-01-05 Billy Ware Los Angeles, USA W KO 4
1959-12-17 Tony Herrera Los Angeles, USA L PTS 4
1959-12-01 Walter Read Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1959-11-07 Juan Estopier Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1959-10-24 Sandy Garcia Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1959-09-26 Julan Rivera Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1959-09-03 Sandy Garcia Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1959-08-01 Johnny Ladnier Hollywood, USA L KO 4

Record to Date
Won 44 (Eight KOs) Lost 27 Drawn 3 Total 74

[kikibalt]

With 'Toonder and Lightning,' Ingemar Johansson weathered Floyd Patterson bouts


TOBIAS ROSTLUND / AFP/Getty Images
Former heavyweight world champion Ingemar Johansson, photographed outside his home in April 2001, died in Sweden last weekend at 76.

Former heavyweight world champion, who died in Sweden at 76, knocked down Patterson seven times in their first fight for win, but lost the next two against him. They remained friends.

By Bill Dwyre

There was a time, long past, when the heavyweight boxing champion of the world was among the more famous and celebrated people on Earth.

Even if he came out of nowhere, or Sweden, as was the case with "Toonder and Lightning" Ingemar Johansson, he became a household name. Now, we don't know who they are, much less where they have households.

When Johansson died in Sweden last weekend at 76, apparently another victim of boxing's inevitable ravishes of dementia, it stirred the memories of the fight trilogy that made him famous. Or, more specifically to Johansson, his moment when Toonder became Lightning.

That took place in the first of his three fights with then-heavyweight champion Floyd Patterson. It was June 26, 1959, in Yankee Stadium, with Patterson a shocking 5-1 favorite -- in boxing that's a sell-your-house-and-find-a-bookie spread. The underdog has to be a cadaver.

Johansson was the European champion, but a reputed soft trainer who was more accessible to the media in after-hour nightclubs with an attractive female on his arm than in boxing gyms. He had gotten his shot at the celebrated Patterson by knocking out the previously indestructible Eddie Machen in the first round of a fight in Sweden. The smart money called that a hometown fluke and saw Patterson's defense of his title as another yawner until a real challenger came along.

Still, any heavyweight title fight was a huge deal back then.

"Those were the days of closed-circuit TV for the fights," said John Hall, former Times sports columnist. "I watched at Hollywood Legion Stadium. I'd say there were 5,000 people there."

The first two rounds were routine. But in the third, Johansson threw a big left hook that Patterson blocked, but left himself open in the process. In that opening, Johansson threw the right hand he had lovingly labeled "Toonder and Lightning" and a shocked boxing world watched and listened as Patterson hit the canvas. He got up, but Johansson chased him relentlessly, knocked him down six more times and finally was given the victory when referee Ruby Goldstein stopped the fight.

Unbelievably, there was still nearly a minute left in the round. If the fight had taken place today and the referee had allowed seven knockdowns in 2:03, they would have taken the referee off in handcuffs.

They fought again just six days shy of one year later, this time in New York's Polo Grounds. In the fifth round, Patterson caught Johansson with a leaping left hook that put the Swede down and so out that he gave everybody watching, including Patterson, a scare by twitching while unconscious on his back and not regaining consciousness for several minutes.

Many of those in boxing were surprised that there was a third fight.

"Maybe with better management, he wouldn't have had to go through that again," said Don Fraser, longtime Los Angeles fight promoter. "I could never figure out why his handlers took that third fight."

It was March 13, 1961, in Miami Beach, and while it wasn't as lopsided as many expected -- Johansson actually knocked Patterson down twice -- Patterson knocked Johansson out in the sixth.

Interestingly, before that match, Johansson had sought a younger and fast fighter as a sparring partner, and the ideal place to find that was at Angelo Dundee's gym in Miami.

"He asked and I said I had this young guy," Dundee said. "I was a little worried about putting this tall, skinny kid in there with Ingo. But the kid was always after me to let him spar and let him do this and that. So I took a chance and they went about three rounds and Ingo still hasn't hit my kid."

Johansson fought only four more times after that third Patterson fight, retired with a 26-2 record and probably made a good decision because, had he stayed around a bit longer, he might have had to face, in a real fight, that same tall, skinny kid named Cassius Clay.

In retirement, Johansson lived what local sports promoter Al Franken termed "an idyllic life."

Johansson stayed close to Patterson -- they made a point to visit each other at least once a year -- and he even took up distance running. That's what prompted Franken to begin a friendship.

"I heard that he and Patterson had run a marathon together," Franken recalled, "and years later, I remembered that when I had this terrible promotion I had to handle. The client was Foot Locker, but the idea they had was awful. They wanted me to promote an 8K race in Griffith Park and it was a partners race -- you and your wife, brother and sister, father and son, etc.

"So I got Ingo and Patterson to come to L.A. -- partners, get it? -- and they were great. In those days, you didn't have to pay an arm and a leg to get an athlete to appear, and so the client ended up loving it. They had dinner with two former heavyweight champions, and these guys who everybody had forgotten were getting paid to do something."

Franken said that Patterson finished the 8K in such good shape that he placed high in his age division. Johansson was a different story.

"This was maybe 20 years ago," Franken said, "and by then, Ingo weighed about 300 pounds. But he finished the race. It took him forever, but he finished."

Johansson weighed 196, 194 3/4 and 206 1/2 for his three fights with Patterson.

"We had a round of golf, and he hit the ball a ton," Franken said, "but always about 150 yards off line. He laughed and joked, and afterward we had a few drinks, and I'm sure, dinner. We know he didn't pass up food."

Franken said he did a few other events with Johansson and they stayed friends, even when they didn't see each other for long periods of time.

Patterson also was struck by dementia late in life, and he died in 2006. Franken said that he knew that Johansson was ill and feared the worst.

About seven or eight years ago, he said, "the Christmas cards stopped coming."

[email protected].

[kikibalt]

Back in the late 1950's and into the 60's Connie and I would take the kids to Clifton's in downtown at least once a month.

Clifton's cafeteria: The place where L.A. finds itself


Anne Cusack / Los Angeles Times

Local historian Charles Phoenix calls Clifton's the "world's greatest place to eat."
With its long history and family tradition, Clifton's Brookdale still draws diners of all stripes. 'It's like coming home,' one patron says.

By Mary MacVean, Times Staff Writer

On Broadway downtown -- amid a jumble of shops selling gold necklaces and sports socks and electric guitars, amid exhaust and noise and has-been theaters, amid hipsters, the down and out and the just plain out of it -- an authentic piece of history goes about the business it began during the Great Depression, feeding everyone who walks through the glass doors.

Wander into Clifton’s Brookdale, the cafeteria on Broadway at 7th Street, and it might seem obvious what makes it unique. Perhaps the waterfall that cascades over several ledges. Or the huge moose head hanging on a wall overlooking one of the dining rooms and the bear holding a fishing pole. Maybe the tiny -- and popular -- tree trunk chapel with its neon cross and inspirational recorded message. But it's more than these.

Walk the winding cafeteria line and choose tiny red and green cubes of Jell-O (or three or four other kinds), liver (beef or chicken) and onions. Or stuffed peppers, pot roast, deviled salmon or Vienna loaf. Coleslaw, corn bread. Or, all of the above.

Dessert greets diners with their trays at the start of the line, and it's the last food on the stainless steel racks leading to the quick-fingered cashiers: tapioca and rice puddings, raisin pie. And the cakes: chocolate banana cream, red velvet, carrot, German chocolate, strawberry cream -- all made on the fourth floor under the direction of Margareto Sanchez, the 64-year-old baker who has worked at Clifton's since 1968.

At lunch one day recently, local historian Charles Phoenix called Clifton's the "world's greatest place to eat." He conducts downtown tours and has brought thousands of people over the years to Clifton's to experience the collision of down-home and theatricality. "But when you get down to the nitty-gritty of what's so special, it's the people," Phoenix says.

Clifton's, with more than 600 seats on three floors, is the last remaining of eight cafeterias around Los Angeles that the Clinton family has owned since 1931. It must be one of the most diverse spots in the city -- ethnically, economically, just about any way you cut it. It's like home is supposed to be, a place where they take you in no matter what, where you're respected even if you don't fit in perfectly elsewhere.

A woman whose close-cropped hair is dyed in a leopard pattern carries her tray through one morning at Christmastime. At lunch another day, a family of five pauses to say grace, the two little boys join hands in prayer before eating fried chicken legs. Another table has the unlikely trio of a young black woman whose face is obscured by a hoodie, a middle-aged Middle Eastern man in a yarmulke and a conservatively dressed balding white man.

The average check is about $8; Thanksgiving dinner was $6.89, $4.99 for kids. Clifton's sells the comfort of rice pudding or stuffed cabbage, neither fancy nor fabulous. The goal is affordable standards, homemade, not haute. Today's leftovers make tomorrow's soups.

The place is "kind of an equalizer," says Robert Clinton, who today owns the cafeteria with his father, Donald. "Some of our prejudices may be lessened."

It's also a place full of regulars, people who have come to Clifton's for decades, as children after church, perhaps, or while shopping with their parents.

"I can't change any condiment or spice -- they would know," Armando Orta, a food manager, says in amazement.

On the first floor, tables are often shared, and though there are no rules, people who wish to eat alone usually head up the stairs. ("Busboys," often women, will carry diners' trays for them if desired.)

Many mornings around 7:30 on Clifton's second floor, a group of regulars gathers, spreading out over four or five tables. They don't come in together and they don't actually sit together, preferring to talk across the tables. They talk sports and politics, work on crosswords, read newspapers or use a laptop.

Van Jones says some of them have been coming off and on for 30 years, originally sitting in the smoking section.

"We don't have anything else in common other than that we come here," Jones says. "But let me tell you something. If you get this whole group together, I don't think there's a topic that's sacred."

They like being left alone and sometimes keep the chairs warm until 10 or so.

"You come here and it's like coming home," says Jones, 63, a widower and father of two grown daughters.

Owner's philosophy

The cafeteria's founder, Clifford Clinton, made the Golden Rule a pillar of his business philosophy: How would you like to be treated?

"When things happened that required a difficult decision, he would ask that question, and answer it honestly. Sometimes it cost money, and it was painful," says Robert Clinton, Clifford's grandson. "We try to do that."

And these days it is painful.

In the restaurant's busiest period, the 1940s, lines would form down Broadway, with as many as 10,000 customers coming through the door on a good day. Today, Clifton's serves 1,800 to 2,000 people a day; Sundays are busiest.

Clifford Clinton sought a half-cent profit per customer. "That doesn't pay the utilities today," says Donald Clinton, a lean and graceful 82-year-old sitting in his small, third-floor office full of photographs he's taken around the world. For a time, Clinton ran the company with his brother and sister. His brother eventually left to become a lawyer. His sister, Jean Clinton Roeschlaub, stayed until her death in 2005, when she was killed at her Glendale home by an unknown assailant. (The county last month authorized a $20,000 reward for information in the case.)

In 2006, the Clintons bought the building that houses the cafeteria, shielding it from the vagaries of leasing. But business has been down 30% in the last six months, Donald Clinton says. "We are trying to survive during difficult times."

Not for the first time.

Feeding the poor

Clifford Clinton was born in 1900 and, as a child, accompanied his parents, who owned cafeterias in San Francisco, on a missionary trip to China, where he encountered the extreme poverty that forever infused his approach to work and to life.

In 1931, he and his wife, Nelda, opened the first Clifton's (a merging of his first and last names) on Olive Street. Clifton's Brookdale opened in 1935 at a time when there were plenty of cafeterias and with a motto that practically courted failure: "Dine Free Unless Delighted."

Clifton's never lacked for customers then -- even if those customers sometimes lacked money.

As a boy, Donald recalls helping out on weekends filling water glasses. He also recalls that Clifton's handed out thousands of cardboard containers of free food, with wooden spoons, out the back door.

According to the company, 10,000 people ate free in one 90-day period. To cope, Clinton's opened an emergency "Penny Caveteria" in a basement on Hill Street and over the next two years fed 2 million people. Some paid the penny for a dish; those who couldn't afford it instead paid with meal tickets that donors had bought and distributed.

"He could have gone bankrupt honoring his childhood promise were it not for faithful suppliers, generous vendors and the grace of God, who saw him through those difficult days," a company brochure said.

By the end of World War II, Clifford Clinton saw that postwar hunger would be a problem in many parts of the world.

He and his wife funded work by Henry Borsook, a Caltech biochemist, that led to the development of a soy-based high-protein supplement called MultiPurpose Food that cost less than 5 cents a portion. The Clintons in 1946 founded Meals for Millions, now the Davis, Calif.-based Freedom From Hunger Foundation, which used MultiPurpose Food to feed people in many countries.

As a prominent family with strong beliefs, they also were involved in politics. Clifford and his son Edmond were part of a 1938 recall movement that ousted Los Angeles Mayor Frank Shaw over charges that Shaw and other officials ignored gambling and prostitution problems in the city, The Times wrote in Edmond's 1992 obituary.

The family's activism prompted a backlash: Health inspectors suddenly required expensive repairs, Robert says. Smoke bombs were set off in bathrooms in both downtown cafeterias. Someone went to Central Avenue, filled a bus with black people and drove them to Clifton's, thinking that "would be a great way to scare off the white customers," he says.

The plan backfired. "A lot of our customers were churchgoing people. What it did was bring in all these new customers," he says.

Almost theatrical

If the Clintons know how to treat "guests" with respect, they also clearly know how to put on a show.


Clifton's Brookdale was inspired by a lodge in the Santa Cruz Mountains, intended to give diners "the feeling you get sitting by a stream" or deep in a redwood forest, Robert says.

At one point, when people dropped a coin in the wishing well, a thank-you light came on. When people put a hand into the sherbet cave, a free bowl of sherbet was sent up a conveyor. (The sugar rations of World War II ended that.) Until the health department stepped in, live canaries joined the sounds of the waterfall. An entertainment tax prompted an end to the organist; these days taped music runs from Brahms to Frank Sinatra to Mick Jagger.

And there's a tiny chapel in a tree trunk. Inside there's a diorama of the redwoods; a taped speech praises the value of perseverance.

Clifford Clinton intended to provide food for the soul as well as for the body, and the business has always had a spiritual component. That was served in part through the 2,338 issues of "Food for Thot," a pamphlet of poems, stories and announcements that was published for 63 years, until 1995. Diners can still find old ones displayed at Clifton's, with the Clifford Clinton quote at the top: " 'We pray our humble service be measured not by gold, but by the Golden Rule.' Suggestions and criticisms appreciated."

A new generation

Robert Clinton wasn't always sure he wanted to spend his life in the family business. After high school, he considered other careers before coming to work with his father. Later, he left briefly to work as a salesman. But for most of the last four decades, he has carried on. He knows many of his customers by name, and occasionally they see one another on the train downtown.

Twenty-nine years after meeting his wife at the Clifton's in Century City, he says, "we're still together; we still love each other."

Clifton's, open every day, aims to be as steadfast.

"Our concept hasn't changed. Our food hasn't changed much," Robert says.

Robert, who turns 55 this month, may be the last generation of his family to operate Clifton's. His daughters, young adults, are not interested. But he says, "Dad's 82. I figure I've got at least another 30 years."

And downtown is changing, with some theaters reviving and new galleries, new residents. With ads and fliers promoting "an after-dark adventure," the resolutely un-hip Clifton's hopes to add downtown's hipsters to its guest list. The bakery at the front is staying open until 10 p.m. Fridays, Saturdays and during the monthly downtown art walk held on Thursdays.

"It won't cost much to try it," Robert said. "Maybe we'll make some new friends."

Heather Desurvire, who ventured in on a Thursday night with a friend, could be one of them.

"This is the best gallery I've seen all night," she said. "There are some spirits here for sure."

[email protected]

[bennie]

With 'Toonder and Lightning,' Ingemar Johansson weathered Floyd Patterson bouts


TOBIAS ROSTLUND / AFP/Getty Images
Former heavyweight world champion Ingemar Johansson, photographed outside his home in April 2001, died in Sweden last weekend at 76.

Former heavyweight world champion, who died in Sweden at 76, knocked down Patterson seven times in their first fight for win, but lost the next two against him. They remained friends.

By Bill Dwyre

There was a time, long past, when the heavyweight boxing champion of the world was among the more famous and celebrated people on Earth.

Even if he came out of nowhere, or Sweden, as was the case with "Toonder and Lightning" Ingemar Johansson, he became a household name. Now, we don't know who they are, much less where they have households.

When Johansson died in Sweden last weekend at 76, apparently another victim of boxing's inevitable ravishes of dementia, it stirred the memories of the fight trilogy that made him famous. Or, more specifically to Johansson, his moment when Toonder became Lightning.

That took place in the first of his three fights with then-heavyweight champion Floyd Patterson. It was June 26, 1959, in Yankee Stadium, with Patterson a shocking 5-1 favorite -- in boxing that's a sell-your-house-and-find-a-bookie spread. The underdog has to be a cadaver.

Johansson was the European champion, but a reputed soft trainer who was more accessible to the media in after-hour nightclubs with an attractive female on his arm than in boxing gyms. He had gotten his shot at the celebrated Patterson by knocking out the previously indestructible Eddie Machen in the first round of a fight in Sweden. The smart money called that a hometown fluke and saw Patterson's defense of his title as another yawner until a real challenger came along.

Still, any heavyweight title fight was a huge deal back then.

"Those were the days of closed-circuit TV for the fights," said John Hall, former Times sports columnist. "I watched at Hollywood Legion Stadium. I'd say there were 5,000 people there."

The first two rounds were routine. But in the third, Johansson threw a big left hook that Patterson blocked, but left himself open in the process. In that opening, Johansson threw the right hand he had lovingly labeled "Toonder and Lightning" and a shocked boxing world watched and listened as Patterson hit the canvas. He got up, but Johansson chased him relentlessly, knocked him down six more times and finally was given the victory when referee Ruby Goldstein stopped the fight.

Unbelievably, there was still nearly a minute left in the round. If the fight had taken place today and the referee had allowed seven knockdowns in 2:03, they would have taken the referee off in handcuffs.

They fought again just six days shy of one year later, this time in New York's Polo Grounds. In the fifth round, Patterson caught Johansson with a leaping left hook that put the Swede down and so out that he gave everybody watching, including Patterson, a scare by twitching while unconscious on his back and not regaining consciousness for several minutes.

Many of those in boxing were surprised that there was a third fight.

"Maybe with better management, he wouldn't have had to go through that again," said Don Fraser, longtime Los Angeles fight promoter. "I could never figure out why his handlers took that third fight."

It was March 13, 1961, in Miami Beach, and while it wasn't as lopsided as many expected -- Johansson actually knocked Patterson down twice -- Patterson knocked Johansson out in the sixth.

Interestingly, before that match, Johansson had sought a younger and fast fighter as a sparring partner, and the ideal place to find that was at Angelo Dundee's gym in Miami.

"He asked and I said I had this young guy," Dundee said. "I was a little worried about putting this tall, skinny kid in there with Ingo. But the kid was always after me to let him spar and let him do this and that. So I took a chance and they went about three rounds and Ingo still hasn't hit my kid."

Johansson fought only four more times after that third Patterson fight, retired with a 26-2 record and probably made a good decision because, had he stayed around a bit longer, he might have had to face, in a real fight, that same tall, skinny kid named Cassius Clay.

In retirement, Johansson lived what local sports promoter Al Franken termed "an idyllic life."

Johansson stayed close to Patterson -- they made a point to visit each other at least once a year -- and he even took up distance running. That's what prompted Franken to begin a friendship.

"I heard that he and Patterson had run a marathon together," Franken recalled, "and years later, I remembered that when I had this terrible promotion I had to handle. The client was Foot Locker, but the idea they had was awful. They wanted me to promote an 8K race in Griffith Park and it was a partners race -- you and your wife, brother and sister, father and son, etc.

"So I got Ingo and Patterson to come to L.A. -- partners, get it? -- and they were great. In those days, you didn't have to pay an arm and a leg to get an athlete to appear, and so the client ended up loving it. They had dinner with two former heavyweight champions, and these guys who everybody had forgotten were getting paid to do something."

Franken said that Patterson finished the 8K in such good shape that he placed high in his age division. Johansson was a different story.

"This was maybe 20 years ago," Franken said, "and by then, Ingo weighed about 300 pounds. But he finished the race. It took him forever, but he finished."

Johansson weighed 196, 194 3/4 and 206 1/2 for his three fights with Patterson.

"We had a round of golf, and he hit the ball a ton," Franken said, "but always about 150 yards off line. He laughed and joked, and afterward we had a few drinks, and I'm sure, dinner. We know he didn't pass up food."

Franken said he did a few other events with Johansson and they stayed friends, even when they didn't see each other for long periods of time.

Patterson also was struck by dementia late in life, and he died in 2006. Franken said that he knew that Johansson was ill and feared the worst.

About seven or eight years ago, he said, "the Christmas cards stopped coming."

[email protected].

Ingo certainly seemed to enjoy his post-boxing years. He was never hard up for cash, that's for sure. This guy had a fleet of everything.

[dagosd2000]

Rick, Rog, Dan, guys, remember Beto Maldonado?, have gloves, will travel...


Beto Maldonado

Birth Name Humberto Arispuro
Country Mexico
Global Id 22425
Division Featherweight


Career Record © http://www.boxrec.com

Date Opponent Location Result
1970-07-24 Eddie Mazon San Diego, USA L TKO 6
1970-07-08 Angel Mayoral Las Vegas, USA L PTS 10
1970-02-27 Bobby Rodriguez San Diego, USA W PTS 10
1970-01-26 Billy Brown Los Angeles, USA W KO 4
1969-09-02 Roberto Andrade Honolulu, USA L PTS 10
1969-08-29 Al Ford Edmonton, Canada L PTS 10
1969-06-13 Joey Aguilar San Bernardino, USA W PTS 10
1968-12-12 Jimmy Robertson Los Angeles, USA L PTS 10
1968-07-03 Kuniaki Shibata Japan L PTS 10
1968-03-29 Norio Endo Agana, Guam W PTS 10
1968-02-28 Kuwashi Shimizu Agana, Guam W PTS 10
1967-06-29 Sugar Cane Carreon Stockton, USA L PTS 10
1967-05-16 Curley Aguirre Honolulu, USA W PTS 10
1967-04-10 Alex Benitez Stockton, USA L PTS 10
1967-03-20 Marcello Cid Stockton, USA W PTS 10
1967-01-26 Johnny Perez Stockton, USA L PTS 8
1966-10-31 Ray Coleman Las Vegas, USA L PTS 6
1966-07-26 Bobby Valdez San Diego, USA L PTS 10
1966-02-07 Dwight Hawkins Las Vegas, USA L PTS 10
1965-12-06 Jerry Stokes Los Angeles, USA L PTS 10
1965-05-22 Ricardo Moreno San Jose, USA L KO 7
1965-03-17 Willie Ray Santa Monica, USA W UD 10
1965-02-08 Babe Huerta Santa Monica, USA W TKO 7
1964-08-11 Sid Obart San Diego, USA L PTS 10
1964-06-24 Sid Obart Los Angeles, USA W PTS 8
1964-05-19 Chris Trejo North Hollywood, USA W PTS 6
1964-05-07 Bennie Lira Los Angeles, USA W SD 6
1964-04-28 Mercer Smith North Hollywood, USA L PTS 6
1964-04-10 Lucio Gomez Los Angeles, USA W PTS 6
1964-03-04 Manny Ramirez San Jose, USA L PTS 10
1964-02-13 Lucio Gomez Los Angeles, USA W PTS 5
1963-04-29 Ray Echevarria Hollywood, USA L PTS 6
1963-03-19 Sid Obart San Diego, USA L KO 3
1963-03-04 Ray Lewis Hollywood, USA W PTS 6
1963-02-19 Tony Vasquez San Diego, USA W PTS 6
1963-01-18 Larry Flores Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1963-01-14 Bennie Lira Hollywood, USA L PTS 4
1962-12-28 Miguel Ibarra Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1962-11-19 Gino Hernandez Bakersfield, USA W TKO 4
1962-11-05 Jerry Stokes Hollywood, USA L PTS 6
1962-10-15 Al Miranda Hollywood, USA W PTS 6
1962-10-08 Gino Hernandez Bakersfield, USA W PTS 6
1961-12-18 Eddie Alvarado San Diego, USA W KO 6
1961-11-19 Gino Hernandez Bakersfield, USA W KO 4
1961-10-08 Gino Hernandez Bakersfield, USA W PTS 6
1961-07-04 Danny Brown Honolulu, USA L KO 1
1961-04-06 Quan James Los Angeles, USA D PTS 6
1961-02-23 Alfonso Miranda Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1961-02-09 Johnny Glasgow Los Angeles, USA D PTS 4
1960-12-13 Solly Klein Los Angeles, USA L PTS 4
1960-12-06 Solly Klein Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-11-28 Pantera Cardenas Long Beach, USA W KO 5
1960-11-08 Bernie Montano Los Angeles, USA D PTS 6
1960-10-28 Jimmy Brown Los Angeles, USA W KO 2
1960-09-22 Pancho Loera Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-08-11 Joey Mazon Los Angeles, USA W SD 6
1960-06-30 Frankie Sedillo Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-05-10 Tony Herrera Los Angeles, USA L KO 4
1960-04-07 Maurice Morales Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-04-05 Solly Klein Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-03-08 Pepino Pedro Morales Los Angeles, USA L PTS 4
1960-02-25 Charlie Marshall Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-02-09 Joey Clements Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-01-28 Solly Klein Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-01-21 Charley Driver Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-01-19 Charley Driver Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-01-05 Billy Ware Los Angeles, USA W KO 4
1959-12-17 Tony Herrera Los Angeles, USA L PTS 4
1959-12-01 Walter Read Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1959-11-07 Juan Estopier Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1959-10-24 Sandy Garcia Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1959-09-26 Julan Rivera Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1959-09-03 Sandy Garcia Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1959-08-01 Johnny Ladnier Hollywood, USA L KO 4

Record to Date
Won 44 (Eight KOs) Lost 27 Drawn 3 Total 74

Sure do Frank
He could have played the opponent for Stacey Keach in Fat City. Have Gloves Will Travel

[Rick Farris]

Rick, Rog, Dan, guys, remember Beto Maldonado?, have gloves, will travel...


Beto Maldonado

Birth Name Humberto Arispuro
Country Mexico
Global Id 22425
Division Featherweight


Career Record © http://www.boxrec.com

Date Opponent Location Result
1970-07-24 Eddie Mazon San Diego, USA L TKO 6
1970-07-08 Angel Mayoral Las Vegas, USA L PTS 10
1970-02-27 Bobby Rodriguez San Diego, USA W PTS 10
1970-01-26 Billy Brown Los Angeles, USA W KO 4
1969-09-02 Roberto Andrade Honolulu, USA L PTS 10
1969-08-29 Al Ford Edmonton, Canada L PTS 10
1969-06-13 Joey Aguilar San Bernardino, USA W PTS 10
1968-12-12 Jimmy Robertson Los Angeles, USA L PTS 10
1968-07-03 Kuniaki Shibata Japan L PTS 10
1968-03-29 Norio Endo Agana, Guam W PTS 10
1968-02-28 Kuwashi Shimizu Agana, Guam W PTS 10
1967-06-29 Sugar Cane Carreon Stockton, USA L PTS 10
1967-05-16 Curley Aguirre Honolulu, USA W PTS 10
1967-04-10 Alex Benitez Stockton, USA L PTS 10
1967-03-20 Marcello Cid Stockton, USA W PTS 10
1967-01-26 Johnny Perez Stockton, USA L PTS 8
1966-10-31 Ray Coleman Las Vegas, USA L PTS 6
1966-07-26 Bobby Valdez San Diego, USA L PTS 10
1966-02-07 Dwight Hawkins Las Vegas, USA L PTS 10
1965-12-06 Jerry Stokes Los Angeles, USA L PTS 10
1965-05-22 Ricardo Moreno San Jose, USA L KO 7
1965-03-17 Willie Ray Santa Monica, USA W UD 10
1965-02-08 Babe Huerta Santa Monica, USA W TKO 7
1964-08-11 Sid Obart San Diego, USA L PTS 10
1964-06-24 Sid Obart Los Angeles, USA W PTS 8
1964-05-19 Chris Trejo North Hollywood, USA W PTS 6
1964-05-07 Bennie Lira Los Angeles, USA W SD 6
1964-04-28 Mercer Smith North Hollywood, USA L PTS 6
1964-04-10 Lucio Gomez Los Angeles, USA W PTS 6
1964-03-04 Manny Ramirez San Jose, USA L PTS 10
1964-02-13 Lucio Gomez Los Angeles, USA W PTS 5
1963-04-29 Ray Echevarria Hollywood, USA L PTS 6
1963-03-19 Sid Obart San Diego, USA L KO 3
1963-03-04 Ray Lewis Hollywood, USA W PTS 6
1963-02-19 Tony Vasquez San Diego, USA W PTS 6
1963-01-18 Larry Flores Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1963-01-14 Bennie Lira Hollywood, USA L PTS 4
1962-12-28 Miguel Ibarra Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1962-11-19 Gino Hernandez Bakersfield, USA W TKO 4
1962-11-05 Jerry Stokes Hollywood, USA L PTS 6
1962-10-15 Al Miranda Hollywood, USA W PTS 6
1962-10-08 Gino Hernandez Bakersfield, USA W PTS 6
1961-12-18 Eddie Alvarado San Diego, USA W KO 6
1961-11-19 Gino Hernandez Bakersfield, USA W KO 4
1961-10-08 Gino Hernandez Bakersfield, USA W PTS 6
1961-07-04 Danny Brown Honolulu, USA L KO 1
1961-04-06 Quan James Los Angeles, USA D PTS 6
1961-02-23 Alfonso Miranda Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1961-02-09 Johnny Glasgow Los Angeles, USA D PTS 4
1960-12-13 Solly Klein Los Angeles, USA L PTS 4
1960-12-06 Solly Klein Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-11-28 Pantera Cardenas Long Beach, USA W KO 5
1960-11-08 Bernie Montano Los Angeles, USA D PTS 6
1960-10-28 Jimmy Brown Los Angeles, USA W KO 2
1960-09-22 Pancho Loera Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-08-11 Joey Mazon Los Angeles, USA W SD 6
1960-06-30 Frankie Sedillo Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-05-10 Tony Herrera Los Angeles, USA L KO 4
1960-04-07 Maurice Morales Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-04-05 Solly Klein Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-03-08 Pepino Pedro Morales Los Angeles, USA L PTS 4
1960-02-25 Charlie Marshall Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-02-09 Joey Clements Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-01-28 Solly Klein Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-01-21 Charley Driver Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-01-19 Charley Driver Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-01-05 Billy Ware Los Angeles, USA W KO 4
1959-12-17 Tony Herrera Los Angeles, USA L PTS 4
1959-12-01 Walter Read Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1959-11-07 Juan Estopier Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1959-10-24 Sandy Garcia Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1959-09-26 Julan Rivera Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1959-09-03 Sandy Garcia Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1959-08-01 Johnny Ladnier Hollywood, USA L KO 4

Record to Date
Won 44 (Eight KOs) Lost 27 Drawn 3 Total 74

Frank . . . I saw Beto Maldonado at the Main Street Gym for years. I can picture him right now, warming up in front of the big mirror by the door of the gym. I also saw him box dozens of rounds at the gym, however, I only saw him fight live once, when he lost to a young Jimmy Robertson. Beto was always on the road, taking fights around the world. A true veteran in every sense of the word.

-Rick Farris

[Rick Farris]

Clifton's . . .

Frank, I used to eat at Clifton's at least once a week with my old trainer, Mel Epstein. I loved the place, but then Mel saw somebody he considered less than savory working in the back, maybe a dishwasher. The guy had long hair, and would tie it up and tuck it under a hair net, as per health dept. rules. They guy never said a word to Mel, or did anything offensive, but Mel didn't like the guy having long hair and when he saw the kid wearing a "Led Zepplin" t-shirt, Mel jumped up from his half eaten plate of food and said, "Let's get out of this place. They got that filthy degenerate working in the back, he's probably full of screw worms!"

I told Mel to sit down and wait for me to finish, since I was driving, but Mel wouldn't spend another moment in the place. He stood up and walked out, warning me that I should probably get a shot of Pennicillin after eating the food on a plate washed by "that god damn hippie."

Just another day in the life of a Mel Epstein boxer. Randy knows.


-Rick Farris

[kikibalt]

Clifton's . . .

Frank, I used to eat at Clifton's at least once a week with my old trainer, Mel Epstein. I loved the place, but then Mel saw somebody he considered less than savory working in the back, maybe a dishwasher. The guy had long hair, and would tie it up and tuck it under a hair net, as per health dept. rules. They guy never said a word to Mel, or did anything offensive, but Mel didn't like the guy having long hair and when he saw the kid wearing a "Led Zepplin" t-shirt, Mel jumped up from his half eaten plate of food and said, "Let's get out of this place. They got that filthy degenerate working in the back, he's probably full of screw worms!"

I told Mel to sit down and wait for me to finish, since I was driving, but Mel wouldn't spend another moment in the place. He stood up and walked out, warning me that I should probably get a shot of Pennicillin after eating the food on a plate washed by "that god damn hippie."

Just another day in the life of a Mel Epstein boxer. Randy knows.


-Rick Farris

I wish I would have known Mel Epstein better, I just knew him from the SoCal Coaches & Managers Assoctation meetings, and I would see him at the the fights/gyms, but never had much to do with him.

[kikibalt]

Here's another guy that hung up the gloves after losing just one fight, Rick, you might remember Wicho, he always showed up with a early 1960's Chevy. Suburban full of kids at the Jr. shows. Sparring with him one time at the Teamsters Gym, he hit me with a left hook liver shot, man, I couldn't move for what seem like hours after that shot

Wicho Morales

Global Id 145251
Division Super Featherweight


Career Record © http://www.boxrec.com

Date Opponent Location Result
1962-05-28 Jerry Stokes Los Angeles, USA L PTS 8
1962-04-16 Tony Herrera Bakersfield, USA W PTS 8
1962-03-09 Victor Lopez Los Angeles, USA W KO 2
1961-08-09 Willie Lucero Long Beach, USA W PTS 6
1961-04-06 Kid Velvet Los Angeles, USA W KO 3
1960-06-30 Norm Kuda Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-06-16 Frankie Sedillo Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-05-17 Frankie Sedillo Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-01-21 Jose Valdives Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4

Record to Date
Won 8 (KOs 2) Lost 1 Drawn 0 Total 9

[Randyman]

Clifton's . . .

Frank, I used to eat at Clifton's at least once a week with my old trainer, Mel Epstein. I loved the place, but then Mel saw somebody he considered less than savory working in the back, maybe a dishwasher. The guy had long hair, and would tie it up and tuck it under a hair net, as per health dept. rules. They guy never said a word to Mel, or did anything offensive, but Mel didn't like the guy having long hair and when he saw the kid wearing a "Led Zepplin" t-shirt, Mel jumped up from his half eaten plate of food and said, "Let's get out of this place. They got that filthy degenerate working in the back, he's probably full of screw worms!"

I told Mel to sit down and wait for me to finish, since I was driving, but Mel wouldn't spend another moment in the place. He stood up and walked out, warning me that I should probably get a shot of Pennicillin after eating the food on a plate washed by "that god damn hippie."

Just another day in the life of a Mel Epstein boxer. Randy knows.


-Rick Farris

I wish I would have known Mel Epstein better, I just knew him from the SoCal Coaches & Managers Assoctation meetings, and I would see him at the the fights/gyms, but never had much to do with him.

Rick and Frank, Clifton was a hangout for Mel and I. Everything you say is true Rick. Mel was the hardest guy in the world to eat at a restaurant with. Anything would and could set him off. The toast being a little too dark or not dark enough, the eggs overcooked or undercooked. The waitress, the cook, the busboy, anything and anyone. You knew it was coming too when he started tapping the table and his eyes were darting from side to side, "let's get the hell out of here!" "Huh? Why what's wrong?" One of Mel's standard reply to any such question was "What are you, fornicating blind?" "I don't think that bitch washes her hands!" then he would just get up and walk out. Mel had no qualms about leaving anyone at the table. He didn't try to hide his anger either. He would be mumbling about for the rest of the day. If you were the one that happened to pick the restaurant you were on his shit list for the day. It was always an adventure having dinner with Mel.

Randy

[Rick Farris]

Clifton's . . .

Frank, I used to eat at Clifton's at least once a week with my old trainer, Mel Epstein. I loved the place, but then Mel saw somebody he considered less than savory working in the back, maybe a dishwasher. The guy had long hair, and would tie it up and tuck it under a hair net, as per health dept. rules. They guy never said a word to Mel, or did anything offensive, but Mel didn't like the guy having long hair and when he saw the kid wearing a "Led Zepplin" t-shirt, Mel jumped up from his half eaten plate of food and said, "Let's get out of this place. They got that filthy degenerate working in the back, he's probably full of screw worms!"

I told Mel to sit down and wait for me to finish, since I was driving, but Mel wouldn't spend another moment in the place. He stood up and walked out, warning me that I should probably get a shot of Pennicillin after eating the food on a plate washed by "that god damn hippie."

Just another day in the life of a Mel Epstein boxer. Randy knows.


-Rick Farris

I wish I would have known Mel Epstein better, I just knew him from the SoCal Coaches & Managers Assoctation meetings, and I would see him at the the fights/gyms, but never had much to do with him.

Me & Mel . . .

That's probably a good thing, Frank, he could really get under people's skin, however, they all liked him too, because he was a truly good guy and there was no dirt on him. You can't take that away from a guy, people know people for their straight forward honesty, that's how everybody knew Mel. He was a gentleman. And he was smart, and very experienced, a great teacher. I probably learned more useful tricks from Mel than anybody else. Sadly, the Rick Farris that Mel inherited was not the most gym concious prizefighter in L.A. at the time. Hell, I was in love, boxing became something I'd do just for a few extra bucks and to get attention. I would miss days, stay out late, come to the gym hung over. All I cared about was spending time with the ladies. That's a painful reality, a fine line seperates a good fighter from a bad one. A fighter must give himself all the edges. That's what made me win fights, and when I took short cuts, I lost. I wasn't a great fighter, so I needed every possible edge, in fact, so do great fighters.

Mel drove Don Fraser nuts. I had a match at the Forum that Don told me was the most exciting six-round fight of the year. The following week, he called me and asked me to come to the Forum's monday night card, and he'd have me introduced in the ring. Mel went with me and told me I didn't deserve all the attention because I looked shitty the week before and fought dead even with a guy I should have beaten easily.

I didn't tell Mel that I was going to be introduced in the ring. Fraser saw us and approached me. He asked me to walk with him upstairs to his Forum office. When we stepped inside he pulled out a box and inside was a real nice Seiko watch. He handed me the watch and said he wanted to reward me for putting on such a great fight with a tough opponent the week before. We walk back down and Mel is really suspicious, "What the Hell did he want?"

I told Mel Fraser loved the fight and gave me a watch, and I was going to be introduced in the ring before the main event, along with my pal, Frankie Crawford, who was also in attendance. Mel blew a gasket. "What the Hell, he's rewarding you for screwing broads, missing sparring sessions with Little Red, and those Saturday night specials you do, out all night drinking with broads, or whatever you do. She's no good for you, and neither are those up the ass friends of hers" You get a reward for coming out of a fight with a busted nose, left eye swollen shut, cut over the right eye, you pissed blood for two days. Yes, you deserve an award for "the most dramatic performance by a dog." If you get up in that ring and take an introduction after last week's embarrassing performance, WE ARE THRU!".

I looked Mel right in the eyes, knowing he was serious. I told him, "Good- we're done!" I was introduced on TV, Mel pouted, and the next day we were back in the gym together. On Friday, I missed a sparring session with Art Hafey, returned to the gym saturday with red eyes. On Sunday sparred with David Sotelo hung over (not a wise thing to do, Sotelo works hard and I had a cut healing) and listened to Mel bitch at me. I was scheduled to fight Jewell Chappell in two weeks, Forum again, pending Commission release of my eye cut suspension.

It was all kinda like a sick soap opera, my last couple years boxing. But I learned things. I know better than to put too much faith in any boxer. We're crazy.


-Rick Farris

[Rick Farris]

Here's another guy that hung up the gloves after losing just one fight, Rick, you might remember Wicho, he always showed up with a early 1960's Chevy. Suburban full of kids at the Jr. shows. Sparring with him one time at the Teamsters Gym, he hit me with a left hook liver shot, man, I couldn't move for what seem like hours after that shot

Wicho Morales

Global Id 145251
Division Super Featherweight


Career Record © http://www.boxrec.com

Date Opponent Location Result
1962-05-28 Jerry Stokes Los Angeles, USA L PTS 8
1962-04-16 Tony Herrera Bakersfield, USA W PTS 8
1962-03-09 Victor Lopez Los Angeles, USA W KO 2
1961-08-09 Willie Lucero Long Beach, USA W PTS 6
1961-04-06 Kid Velvet Los Angeles, USA W KO 3
1960-06-30 Norm Kuda Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-06-16 Frankie Sedillo Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-05-17 Frankie Sedillo Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1960-01-21 Jose Valdives Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4

Record to Date
Won 8 (KOs 2) Lost 1 Drawn 0 Total 9

Strange, Frank. I didn't know the guy, but he beat a couple good fighters. Remember the Sedillo brothers? I think there were two or three, from out in the Indio area? They fought a lot at the Olympic in the later sixties.

-Rick Farris

[Randyman]

Clifton's . . .

Frank, I used to eat at Clifton's at least once a week with my old trainer, Mel Epstein. I loved the place, but then Mel saw somebody he considered less than savory working in the back, maybe a dishwasher. The guy had long hair, and would tie it up and tuck it under a hair net, as per health dept. rules. They guy never said a word to Mel, or did anything offensive, but Mel didn't like the guy having long hair and when he saw the kid wearing a "Led Zepplin" t-shirt, Mel jumped up from his half eaten plate of food and said, "Let's get out of this place. They got that filthy degenerate working in the back, he's probably full of screw worms!"

I told Mel to sit down and wait for me to finish, since I was driving, but Mel wouldn't spend another moment in the place. He stood up and walked out, warning me that I should probably get a shot of Pennicillin after eating the food on a plate washed by "that god damn hippie."

Just another day in the life of a Mel Epstein boxer. Randy knows.


-Rick Farris

I wish I would have known Mel Epstein better, I just knew him from the SoCal Coaches & Managers Assoctation meetings, and I would see him at the the fights/gyms, but never had much to do with him.

Me & Mel . . .

That's probably a good thing, Frank, he could really get under people's skin, however, they all liked him too, because he was a truly good guy and there was no dirt on him. You can't take that away from a guy, people know people for their straight forward honesty, that's how everybody knew Mel. He was a gentleman. And he was smart, and very experienced, a great teacher. I probably learned more useful tricks from Mel than anybody else. Sadly, the Rick Farris that Mel inherited was not the most gym concious prizefighter in L.A. at the time. Hell, I was in love, boxing became something I'd do just for a few extra bucks and to get attention. I would miss days, stay out late, come to the gym hung over. All I cared about was spending time with the ladies. That's a painful reality, a fine line seperates a good fighter from a bad one. A fighter must give himself all the edges. That's what made me win fights, and when I took short cuts, I lost. I wasn't a great fighter, so I needed every possible edge, in fact, so do great fighters.

Mel drove Don Fraser nuts. I had a match at the Forum that Don told me was the most exciting six-round fight of the year. The following week, he called me and asked me to come to the Forum's monday night card, and he'd have me introduced in the ring. Mel went with me and told me I didn't deserve all the attention because I looked shitty the week before and fought dead even with a guy I should have beaten easily.

I didn't tell Mel that I was going to be introduced in the ring. Fraser saw us and approached me. He asked me to walk with him upstairs to his Forum office. When we stepped inside he pulled out a box and inside was a real nice Seiko watch. He handed me the watch and said he wanted to reward me for putting on such a great fight with a tough opponent the week before. We walk back down and Mel is really suspicious, "What the Hell did he want?"

I told Mel Fraser loved the fight and gave me a watch, and I was going to be introduced in the ring before the main event, along with my pal, Frankie Crawford, who was also in attendance. Mel blew a gasket. "What the Hell, he's rewarding you for screwing broads, missing sparring sessions with Little Red, and those Saturday night specials you do, out all night drinking with broads, or whatever you do. She's no good for you, and neither are those up the ass friends of hers" You get a reward for coming out of a fight with a busted nose, left eye swollen shut, cut over the right eye, you pissed blood for two days. Yes, you deserve an award for "the most dramatic performance by a dog." If you get up in that ring and take an introduction after last week's embarrassing performance, WE ARE THRU!".

I looked Mel right in the eyes, knowing he was serious. I told him, "Good- we're done!" I was introduced on TV, Mel pouted, and the next day we were back in the gym together. On Friday, I missed a sparring session with Art Hafey, returned to the gym saturday with red eyes. On Sunday sparred with David Sotelo hung over (not a wise thing to do, Sotelo works hard and I had a cut healing) and listened to Mel bitch at me. I was scheduled to fight Jewell Chappell in two weeks, Forum again, pending Commission release of my eye cut suspension.

It was all kinda like a sick soap opera, my last couple years boxing. But I learned things. I know better than to put too much faith in any boxer. We're crazy.


-Rick Farris

Frank, with Mel it was always anyone's guess whether he was going to like someone or not. I will say this, when it came to those that he liked, he was as loyal as a boy scout. You wouldn't find a better friend. Sometimes he would give me a rash of shit about something, and just when I was about to get mad he would pop me with an uppercut, then he would give just a hint of a smile just to let you know everything was cool. Then he would start in about letting myself get caught on the chin by an old man.

I think Mel really enjoyed getting under people's skin. Everyday he went through the same old argument at the gym. He wanted the windows open and everyone else wanted them closed. As soon as someone would close them, he would walk over to the windows and open them, then walk back muttering something about "you f#cking bastids". Still as Rick said. They all like Mel. He was a straight shooter. There was no bullshitting around, no pretenses. What you see is what you get. He was a man of his word.

For all his flaws and eccentric behavior, I loved that man like a grandfather. He wanted me to move in with him but I knew that would never work out. He would have drove me nuts. There was a time when I wasn't getting along with my father and he didn't want me around the house. So I slept in the San Gabriel Riverbed, at Marano Beach, with the hobos. It was no big deal really and I mention it just to make a point. As much as I loved that old curmudgeon I would rather have slept in the riverbed with the hobos than move in with him. I never told him about that.

Randy

[Rick Farris]

Davey Contreras . . .

Hey Frank, remember this guy? Here's another that had a winning record and just quit after one loss.

I think Davey Contreras fought out of Teamsters Gym, and so did his brother Victor, or "Butch" as he was known. I was scheduled to fight Butch at the Olympic, but he never showed for the morning weigh-in. Louie was there, said his fighter was sick.

Davey was looking pretty good, unbeaten in nine fights (not all listed by Boxrec). Then they matched him with Frankie Crawford in a ten rounder, a big mistake. Crawford ate his heart. Frankie dropped him twice, and stopped him in the ninth round. One loss- ADIOS!

We should start a seperate classification for these guys, call it - "One Loss Wonders". A loss can be a great learning experience for a boxer, depending on what it teaches them. Take losing to heart, but don't let it take your heart. If you can look down between your legs and still see a pair hanging, your still in the game. Fighters tend to defeat themselves, often before a match takes place.

A guy like Frankie Crawford could intimidate an insecure fighter, just looking at them across the room. Believe it or not, some 43 or 44 years later, I still remember the Davey Contreras-Crawford fight. I liked the Contreras brothers, and Davey was the better boxer of the two, I thought.

You knew them better than I did, Frank. They were Teamsters Gym fighters.


-Rick Farris