Autobarn wrote:Could he have gunned for the p4p #1 spot? Could he have gone that extra mile - I reckon so.
This is what disgusts me about him retiring now the most. Calzaghe becoming the P4P No.1 by the end of the year was a realistic possibility, yet he doesn't have the balls to risk defeat and go for it, very disappointing.
he risked defeat 46 times - sometimes people talk complete shit on here
All of them had a chance, this is boxing. Granted some had more ability than others but i cant name any fighters who dont have lesser calibre 'names' on their records. Calzaghe has a former undisputed middle champ, former multi weight (granted very faded)champ, plus has beaten the two most dangerous guys in his division, as well as a decent number of former champs and challengers and unbeaten guys. Hes far and away from having a completely 'padded' record. Some guys on here need to understand the basic premise of boxing more and just how amazing it is for anyone to achieve what Calzaghe has. Its easy to pick fault but lets be honest, it will be some time before Britain produces a talent like Calzaghe. Names like Sheika, Reid, Brewer, Woodhall, Eubank, Starrie etc are far from dreadful. The only name missing is Ottke but that fight was never going to happen and Joe has achieved more.
Dioufy wrote:I hate the fact that he only had two unifaction fights in his whole career. I think that's poor for "our best British boxer ever."
Which British boxer had more?
Calzaghe a real great. Whatever anyone says, staying unbeaten so long is very special. Look at Pavlik, Paul Williams, big new names who came through, but couldn't even go through a year as champion unbeaten. Better matches earlier would have left a greater legacy, but the matches were just not there. A very, very special talent.
gobbles wrote:Look at Pavlik, Paul Williams, big new names who came through, but couldn't even go through a year as champion unbeaten. Better matches earlier would have left a greater legacy, but the matches were just not there. A very, very special talent.
Pavlik took a big risk and it didn't pay off. Did Calzaghe fight anyone like Hopkins early in his reign?
It is not fair to put down Pavlik as if he failed to do what Calzaghe did, because he simply did not go down the same path, instead he took risks.
How is Pavlik fighting Hopkins and bigger risk than Calzaghe fighting Hopkins? Thats just plain silly. Seriously mate.
For the record Im a huge Pavlik fan as well and i hope he can come back from that loss.
gobbles wrote:Look at Pavlik, Paul Williams, big new names who came through, but couldn't even go through a year as champion unbeaten. Better matches earlier would have left a greater legacy, but the matches were just not there. A very, very special talent.
Pavlik took a big risk and it didn't pay off. Did Calzaghe fight anyone like Hopkins early in his reign?
It is not fair to put down Pavlik as if he failed to do what Calzaghe did, because he simply did not go down the same path, instead he took risks.
Pavlik's not as good as Calzaghe. I'm a fan of Pavlik but he's one dimensional.
There will always be a `new kid on the block` that some people will scream out for the established champion to defend against .. wasn`t lacy that? .. then kessler??
Froch still has alot to prove .. even more than what lacy did previous to Joe fighting him.
In Carls last fight it showed there is alot of hype attached to him .. and if Joe was to do a number on Froch then the `experts` would soon be pointing out the pascal fight had showed these faults prior to Joe beating him .. and Froch wasn`t that good after all
Joe did frustrate alot of people with his injuries and choice of opponents .. but there is no reason not to judge him as one of the best British boxers ever ..
I wish him all the best, and a long and happy retirement from the ring.
It certainly did prove to be a bigger risk, mainly because Pavlik isn't as good as Calzaghe. If JC had beaten Pavlik then he would only get written off in the same way Lacy does. As it is JC beat Hopkins and then capped his career with the rather enjoyable show against Jones.
jayc wrote:If JC had beaten Pavlik then he would only get written off in the same way Lacy does.
People still have great respect for that win as they would if Calzaghe had fought Pavlik.
jayc wrote:As it is JC beat Hopkins and then capped his career with the rather enjoyable show against Jones.
Calzaghe only started fighting top fighters in the last few years of his career. He fights a few of them, beats them easily enough and then decides to quit. Why should I respect his decision?
He claims "I've been world champion for 11 years. I've got no other goals to go for", when there is still the P4P No.1 crown on offer if he chased it. I don't respect his attitude on this issue and I felt the need to respond as such.
Calzaghe is retiring after having a fantastic career, winning all of his professional bouts & with his faculties intact, which is very important indeed.
However, the flip-side of the coin is that there are no shortage of challenges out there. First name that springs to mind is Chad Dawson. People can say Joe has been at the top for so long, how this is the right time to retire, how there is always someone new to face, etc.
However, I do not think Calzaghe fancied putting himself through the gruelling training once again that comes with boxing at the highest level. I mean, the man himself has even said his motivation to train has waned greatly over the last couple of years.
Joe was a great fighter, one of the best british fighters of all time. I wish all the very best in retirement. I have a feeling that Calzaghe, will be one of the few fighters to stay retired. Once Joe gets out of shape & used to living how he wants, eating what he wants, there will be zero motivation to get back into shape!
Calzaghe may miss the sport from time-to-time, but the training & discipline required - I think he'll be happy to see the back of that side of things!
jayc wrote:As it is JC beat Hopkins and then capped his career with the rather enjoyable show against Jones.
Calzaghe only started fighting top fighters in the last few years of his career. He fights a few of them, beats them easily enough and then decides to quit. Why should I respect his decision?
He has been on the slide, imo, in recent fights and his hands are liable to go at any point. He said one of them went in the Jones Jr fight. He's risking too much to continue.
jayc wrote:If JC had beaten Pavlik then he would only get written off in the same way Lacy does.
People still have great respect for that win as they would if Calzaghe had fought Pavlik.
jayc wrote:As it is JC beat Hopkins and then capped his career with the rather enjoyable show against Jones.
Calzaghe only started fighting top fighters in the last few years of his career. He fights a few of them, beats them easily enough and then decides to quit. Why should I respect his decision?
He claims "I've been world champion for 11 years. I've got no other goals to go for", when there is still the P4P No.1 crown on offer if he chased it. I don't respect his attitude on this issue and I felt the need to respond as such.
Horse, you know as well as me that far too many people knock the Lacy victory in hindsight, especially on web forums. As for not pushing on for the P4P No1? It's a mythical belt mate and I could argue that he already is. The p4p status seeking genuinely annoys me sometimes - its totally worthless and completely subjective. I also think that his punch resistence is going and he has always suffered from fragile hands. For me he has already done enough to retire as a British boxing great, i will cherish his achievements rather than crowing about what might have been.
Calzaghe is one of the best Britain has ever produced, but I don't think we've produced many that were all that special. I can't say i'm gonna miss him really, because of all the bulls**t that went on with his career. There were so many frustrating nights against opponants no one wanted to see him in against, not to mention the pull out's and the reluctance to travel. The majority of first 9 or so years of his title reign was a very disappointing. All in all, I think he's made the best decision in retiring.
Dioufy wrote:I hate the fact that he only had two unifaction fights in his whole career. I think that's poor for "our best British boxer ever."
Which British boxer had more?
I didn't say that anyone had any more. But how many British boxers hold a version of the world title for eleven years. The mitigating circumstances around Joe's lack of risky fights, even when he was champion is disappointing. He never took that "massive" risk.
jayc wrote:Horse, you know as well as me that far too many people knock the Lacy victory in hindsight, especially on web forums. As for not pushing on for the P4P No1? It's a mythical belt mate and I could argue that he already is.
Almost no one thinks Calzaghe is the P4P number one. So what if it is mythical? Does that mean it has no significance?
jayc wrote:The p4p status seeking genuinely annoys me sometimes - its totally worthless and completely subjective.
"Totally Worthless"? In what way is seeking glory "totally worthless"? What is worthwhile in boxing? Making money?
jayc wrote:I also think that his punch resistence is going and he has always suffered from fragile hands. For me he has already done enough to retire as a British boxing great, i will cherish his achievements rather than crowing about what might have been.
Who cares if he retires as a British boxing great? Isn't that a totally worthless idea?
jayc wrote:Horse, you know as well as me that far too many people knock the Lacy victory in hindsight, especially on web forums. As for not pushing on for the P4P No1? It's a mythical belt mate and I could argue that he already is.
Almost no one thinks Calzaghe is the P4P number one. So what if it is mythical? Does that mean it has no significance?
jayc wrote:The p4p status seeking genuinely annoys me sometimes - its totally worthless and completely subjective.
"Totally Worthless"? In what way is seeking glory "totally worthless"? What is worthwhile in boxing? Making money?
jayc wrote:I also think that his punch resistence is going and he has always suffered from fragile hands. For me he has already done enough to retire as a British boxing great, i will cherish his achievements rather than crowing about what might have been.
Who cares if he retires as a British boxing great? Isn't that a totally worthless idea?
I do, and could name at least 3 others (hardly an army but you get the point). Do you propose that Calzaghe has not sought glory by challenging the likes of Kessler/Hopkins and Lacy? Or did he do it for some other reason. And as mercenary as it may sound, yes, making money is important, or else all fighters would stay amateur. I care that he has retired as a British Boxing Great. Winning a world title is glorious, unifying a division is glorious, winning a title at a second weight is aslo...glorious. Being named P4P by a magazine is slightly less glorious in my opinion. I respect yours off course, but as i said it's subjective - not everyone agrees and it is also unproveable. You strike me as unable to consider that you are fallible mate. Lets just agree to disagree. I respect JC for what he has already done, you resent what never happened. My glass is half full, yours is half empty etc etc.
What always makes me laugh on these forums is the mention of fighters just being in it for the money, well I'm sorry but that is the whole point of professional boxing, it's a business as much as it is a sport. If you want to see people fighting solely for glory then I suggest you watch two blokes fighting bareknuckle on the street and waking up the next morning with nothing but cuts, bruises and respect.
Yes JC could have fought fighters earlier than he did and yes he should of taken risks and fought abroad more often but it's not as simple as that, nothing is easy in life especially when money is involved. Anyway I wish him a healthy life outside of the ring and many happy times with his family.
Calzaghe was a bit special, but amongst folk like us there will always be question marks, especially with some of the dross on his record. However, i'm a big fan of his, always have been.
He was a stellar Uk amateur and has had an outstanding professional career.
But I agree with what someone else posted, he needed Otke on his record
He did need Ottke, although probably not as much as Sven needed Joe on his record!!! The two best SM's of their generation and there is no doubt who achieved more.
