Classic American West Coast Boxing

[bennie]

Didn't he fight Charlie Magri in England? Also, I think that he was California Flyweight Champion in the late 1970's.

Little Mike Stewart . . .

Frank, you certainly remember Sammy Saunders slick little flyweight-bantam, Mike Stewart. He was a good kid and I'd see him training for years at the Main St. Gym from the time he was about 9-or-10. He had a pretty mom who would drop him off at the gym, and Sammy looked after him. He would turn pro and do all right, before getting out when the time was right. That makes him a winner, he took more from boxing than it took from him.

Rick Farris

Yes, he fought Charlie, Geoffrey, and sadly underperformed and was slung out for holding in the third round by referee Harrry Gibbs. Magri was too physically strong for him.

[kikibalt]

Didn't he fight Charlie Magri in England? Also, I think that he was California Flyweight Champion in the late 1970's.

Little Mike Stewart . . .

Frank, you certainly remember Sammy Saunders slick little flyweight-bantam, Mike Stewart. He was a good kid and I'd see him training for years at the Main St. Gym from the time he was about 9-or-10. He had a pretty mom who would drop him off at the gym, and Sammy looked after him. He would turn pro and do all right, before getting out when the time was right. That makes him a winner, he took more from boxing than it took from him.

Rick Farris

Mike was in my 1973 National GG team, finals been in Boston.

[geoffreysadao]

I'll ask you guys to comment on another fighter from that time; Victor Abraham. The couple of times that I saw him fight on T.V. (against Rudy Barro and Milton McCrory), he looked very capable. I know he was Sugar Ray Leonard's sparring partner too. What became of this skillful fighter?

Didn't he fight Charlie Magri in England? Also, I think that he was California Flyweight Champion in the late 1970's.

Little Mike Stewart . . .

Frank, you certainly remember Sammy Saunders slick little flyweight-bantam, Mike Stewart. He was a good kid and I'd see him training for years at the Main St. Gym from the time he was about 9-or-10. He had a pretty mom who would drop him off at the gym, and Sammy looked after him. He would turn pro and do all right, before getting out when the time was right. That makes him a winner, he took more from boxing than it took from him.

Rick Farris

Yes, he fought Charlie, Geoffrey, and sadly underperformed and was slung out for holding in the third round by referee Harrry Gibbs. Magri was too physically strong for him.

[kikibalt]

Mike Stuart

Country USA
Global Id 62486
Division Bantamweight


Career Record © www.boxrec.com

Date Opponent Location Result
1981-02-16 Alonzo Gonzalez Bakersfield, USA L KO 4
1980-01-23 Johnny Carter Las Vegas, USA L TKO 9
1979-06-03 Adelaido Galindo Las Vegas, USA L TD 6
1979-02-20 Charlie Magri Kensington, United Kingdo L KO 3
1978-07-18 Rafael Rubio Pico Rivera, USA W SD 12
1978-03-16 Santos Nunez Anchorage, USA W KO 5
1978-01-30 Rafael Rubio Tijuana, Mexico L PTS 10
1978-01-18 Raul Pacheco Anchorage, USA W PTS 12
1977-11-17 Antonio Kiris Los Angeles, USA L PTS 10
1977-10-20 Raul Ochoa Los Angeles, USA W KO 3
1977-09-20 Candy Iglesias Phoenix, USA W TKO 2
1977-05-27 Raul Pacheco San Diego, USA W PTS 10
1977-03-03 Carlos Alcibar Los Angeles, USA W PTS 10
1976-10-02 Matias Marin Los Angeles, USA L PTS 8
1976-08-19 Arnulfo Martinez Los Angeles, USA W PTS 5
1976-07-08 Santiago Hernandez Los Angeles, USA W KO 4
1976-06-10 Alfonso del Gadillo Los Angeles, USA W KO 2
1976-05-13 Alfonso del Gadillo Los Angeles, USA D TD 1
1976-04-02 Shiji Kambara Los Angeles, USA W KO 1
1976-03-19 Jorge Flores Los Angeles, USA W KO 2
1976-03-03 Carlos Alcibar Los Angeles, USA W PTS 10
1974-12-04 John Meza Las Vegas, USA W PTS 4
1974-10-10 Cesar Gomez Los Angeles, USA L KO 1
1974-09-19 Mario Rogelio Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4

Record to Date
Won 15 (KOs 7) Lost 8 Drawn 1 Total 24

[kikibalt]

Mike Stuart, third from right, on Mike's right is Victor Abraham.
1973 Los Angeles National Golden Glove team

[kikibalt]

Front row, third from right Victor Abraham, far left, Mike stuart.
1973 Los Angeles National Golden Glove team

[Rick Farris]

Wayne Kindred

His wife, Vickie, once appeared on an episode of THE HOLLYWOOD SQUARES television show. That episode is often repeated on THE GAME SHOW television network to this day. (Guest celebrities were Tony Randall, Rose Marie, Marty Allen, Sandy Duncan, Jonathan Winters, George Gobel, Connie Stevens, Danny Thomas, and, of course, Paul Lynde in the center square.) They even had a Rocky Graciano question during this episode. By the way, she scored more points than her opponent, Ed Rains (name uncertain, but he apparently had become famous for some ordeal or other event right before he appeared on the show), and thus she won the grand prize of a Pontiac Astre car.


Wayne Kindred

Country USA
Global Id 15776
Division Heavyweight

Manager: Johnny Flores


Career Record © http://www.boxrec.com

Date Opponent Location Result
1970-08-20 Jose Luis Garcia Los Angeles, USA L TKO 2
1969-05-01 Cornell Nolan Los Angeles, USA L KO 2
1969-02-20 Ken Norton Los Angeles, USA L TKO 9
1968-07-23 Ken Norton San Diego, USA L KO 6
1967-09-18 Zora Folley Las Vegas, USA L TKO 8
1967-07-27 Dave Centi Los Angeles, USA W UD 10
1967-06-09 Wendell Newton Los Angeles, USA W UD 6
1967-04-06 Matt Blow Los Angeles, USA W UD 10
1967-02-17 Don Koontz Bakersfield, USA W KO 10
1966-11-21 Cornell Nolan Los Angeles, USA L KO 3
1966-10-20 L J Wheeler Los Angeles, USA W KO 6

Record to Date
Won 5 (KOs 2) Lost 6 Drawn 0 Total 11

Wayne Kindred was one of Canto Robledo's boxers. In his first pro fight, he fought a 6'10" former basletball pro named L.J. Wheeler. In his last pro fight, he was stopped Ken Norton's conquerer, Jose Luis Garcia. I opened the show fighting Benny Rodriguez in my 4th pro fight.

-Rick Farris

[Rick Farris]

Another "one loss" and good-by fighter, from Pug's neck of the woods

Walter Moore

Alias Walter E. Moore, Jr.
Country USA
Global Id 23464
Birthplace Sunflower, MO, USA
Division Heavyweight
Born 1946-02-07


Career Record © http://www.boxrec.com

Date Opponent Location Result
1978-04-28 Jose Roman Chicago, USA W UD 10
1978-02-24 Roy Williams Las Vegas, USA L KO 6
1978-01-23 Fernando Montes Chicago, USA W UD 10
1977-11-22 Terry Daniels Chicago, USA W TKO 6
1977-10-25 Harry Terrell Chicago, USA W KO 3
1977-06-25 Charlie Johnson Chicago, USA W KO 4
1977-05-23 Verbie Garland Chicago, USA W PTS 10
1977-04-25 Jimmy Phillips Chicago, USA W KO 1
1974-11-05 Danny Lee Chicago, USA W PTS 8
1974-11-04 Mel Turnbow W TKO 4
1972-04-22 Harold Carter Akron, USA W KO 3
1972-04-06 Wally Henderson Warren, USA W KO 1
1972-02-15 Frank Evans Beaumont, USA W KO 7
1971-10-16 J D McCauley Akron, USA W KO 3
1971-10-10 Charlie Boston Akron, USA W KO 2
1971-09-14 Johnny Mac Las Vegas, USA W KO 3
1971-02-13 Jimmy Rossette Woodland Hills, USA W KO 5
1970-10-31 Andy Nacosti Woodland Hills, USA W KO 1
1969-12-19 Lee Estes Omaha, USA W TKO 2
1969-10-16 Kenyatta Hockenhull Los Angeles, USA W KO 1

Record to Date
Won 19 (KOs 15) Lost 1 Drawn 0 Total 20

In 1969, I traveled with the L.A. Golden Gloves team to the Nationals in Kansas City. Walter Moore was our heavyweight and the only L.A. team member that won a National Championship. As the Nat'l GG champ. Moore had a free pass to compete in the Nat'l AAU tourney the following montth in San Diego. Walter went to San Diego with us but seemed nervous about fighting heavily favored Jim Elder, of the Navy. Walter said he had stomach problems and backed out of a match with Elder. Earnie Shavers would KO Elder in the finals. Walter Moore had power and I believed was going places. I was right. One loss and he went to Hell.

-Rick Farris

[Rick Farris]

Front row, third from right Victor Abraham, far left, Mike stuart.
1973 Los Angeles National Golden Glove team

That was a great team you had, Frank. Roy Hollis brought home a Nat'll GG title to L.A. and a few others did well in the pros (Art Frias, Frankie Duate and Randy Shields). We had some good GG teams in the 60's and 70's, but I think the best might have been the '67 team which took three Nat'l titles for LA -Clay Hodges, Thurman Durden and Paul Pad Horse. I know Jerry Quarry took the Nat'l GG title in '65 at heavyweight and I believe Frank's pal Dub Huntley took the middleweight crown that year? I'm not sure about Huntley?

-Rick Farris

[Rick Farris]

Ski Goldstein . . .

This Jewish heavyweight was a club fighter back in the 60's, he'd often drive out to Johnny Flores Gym in the San Fernanado Valley to work with my heavyweight stablemate, Al "Kit" Boursse'.

-Rick Farris

[Rick Farris]

"Big" Dave Centi . . .

This heavyweight fought in both prelims and a couple mainevents at the Olympic. Centi became best known as Jerry Quarry's sparring partner and I saw him take some powerful body shots from Jerry over the years.

One of the most painful memories for Centi was the time his "bird cage" (a head guard with a bar that protected the face) caused him serious injury. Quarry landed a beautiful right cross on the headgear's face bar, disloging it from the padding and driving the metal into the boxers forehead. It was the bloodiest face wound I ever saw on a fighter and Dave was sent to a hospital emergency room for repairs.

-Rick Farris

[kikibalt]

A fighter gets up off the mat

John Bray shows kids how to be winners in life

By Connie Llanos, Staff Writer

SAN FERNANDO - Former amateur boxing champion John Bray has landed his share of blows.

The Van Nuys native fought his way to the top of the amateur circuit, boxed alongside Oscar De la Hoya on the U.S. National Team and sparred with Mike Tyson before his first match against Evander Holyfield.

Outside the ring, Bray has been on the receiving end of more knockouts than he's thrown.

After a mediocre professional career, during which he moonlighted as a private investigator, he ended up behind bars on a weapons-possession charge. A few years later, after a failed attempt at a comeback, a stroke left him with no feeling on one side of his body and forced him to bag groceries for a living, at risk of never entering the ring again.

Bray recovered - something he credits to "divine intervention" - and made his way back to the ring as a trainer. Now he's teamed up with the Los Angeles Police Department's Foothill Jeopardy Program for at-risk kids.

He's hosting his second annual boxing clinic Saturday in San Fernando.

"I've seen highs and I've seen lows," Bray said, with a slight slur that lingers from the stroke he had 10 years ago.

"I can tell these kids what they need to stay away from. I can tell them because I've been there."

Taking a break from a training session with one of his students inside the Foothill Jeopardy boxing gym, Bray laughed as he thought of his days as a top fighter.

"Back then I would have never done any of this. ... All I cared about was myself."
The middle child in a family of six, Bray grew up on Delano Street in Van Nuys and was raised by a single mom.

He discovered boxing when he was 9 years old, and by 16 his name was whispered in boxing gyms across the San Fernando Valley as a world heavyweight champion contender.

Ken Greene remembers the first time he saw Bray in the ring inside Frankie Goodman's gym in Van Nuys.

"He looked like Muhammad Ali," Greene said about a 16- year-old Bray.

"Boy, was he fast."

The former head deputy of the Los Angeles County Public Defender's Office befriended Bray. He watched him win 124 of 136 amateur fights and become a seven-time national champion who represented the U.S. in 1987 and 1992. He fought in the 1989 World Championships and in the 1990 Goodwill Games.

Green then looked on as Bray's life fell apart.

"He got involved with bad people who gave him bad advice and took him in the wrong direction."

Bray tried to make a comeback in 1998. After being a longtime professional sparring partner for such heavy hitters as Holyfield and Lennox Lewis, Bray knew his body was battered and weak.

"I remember jogging and feeling my legs buckling underneath myself, but I convinced myself that it was nothing," Bray said.

Months after a fight, Bray had a stroke in the middle of the night that left him with no feeling in the right side of his body and the left side of his face. Simple tasks such as eating and talking became a struggle.

To earn money after his stroke, Bray tried several odd jobs, including recycling cans he picked up on the street. He was also a grocery bagger at a Van Nuys market, steps away from the gyms where he once trained for some of the world's biggest amateur competitions.

"I was humbled," Bray said. But the fighter worked on his rehab and slowly regained his mobility.

Bray's former trainer, Joe Goosen, gave him a job at his gym sweeping floors, and over time Bray made his way back to the ring as a trainer.

Bray's reputation as a top trainer is growing in the boxing world as he continues to work with such ranked fighters as North Hollywood's Miguel Espino. This year he's a coach on the boxing reality show "The Contender."

Former world champion Carlos Palomino remembered how promising Bray's career was in the 1980s.

"He was pegged by some of the top trainers in the world as being the next big heavyweight," he said.

But Palomino, who's been working with troubled kids in the San Fernando Valley for decades, said Bray's struggles could now bring him the success he never saw as a fighter.

"He can tell kids `don't do it my way'... he can show them that they can have success after a mistake."

Bray's straight talk and tough story got the attention of 18-year-old Robert Herrera, who met Bray two years ago when he was getting into trouble hanging out on the streets of North Hollywood.

"I was living day to day and I didn't care about anything," Herrera said.

Now Herrera is being trained at no cost by Bray and this year he's expected to be a top contender at the Los Angeles Golden Gloves competition.

But it's for the life skills that Bray has taught Herrera that the teen is really grateful.

"I have goals now. It was John who helped me see the bigger picture," he said.

Bray hopes to continue his efforts by developing the nonprofit foundation that sports his name and is operated by his brothers and cousins.

Bray wants to introduce kids to the kind of boxing culture he remembers from his youth, when boxing gyms had free clinics for local neighborhood kids. But he said he doesn't want to create a bunch of future boxers.

"I don't even want them to pursue it as a career," Bray said. "It's about the mental fight. It's about introducing them to a new world, ... showing them there's more to life."

[kikibalt]

The John Bray Boxing Foundation

http://www.johnbrayboxingfoundation.org ... ctors.html

[dagosd2000]

Ski Goldstein . . .

This Jewish heavyweight was a club fighter back in the 60's, he'd often drive out to Johnny Flores Gym in the San Fernanado Valley to work with my heavyweight stablemate, Al "Kit" Boursse'.

-Rick Farris

Check on that Rick. Ski wasn't Jewish. He was from Polish extraction or something around there. Very popular fella' in San Diego.

[dagosd2000]

THEY'RE PUTTIN' ON THE SQUEEZE

600,000 layoffs in January. Around that figure each month it looks like. When does this stop? When you're wonderin',that means you don't know. Crime will go up. Always does when the economy is down. I wish they'd catch the billionaire crooks that caused this and throw them in jail.

Maybe boxing gyms will open up. You know the line.
"Fighting is a poor man's out."
It's not nice to put people in a desperate situation,but I look at fighting as a more honorable profession than being a dope dealer.But it's a fact of life now. More and more are feeling the squeeze.

Like the 30's when things were bad in America. Young fellas' went to the gym. Tried their luck being a fighter. Tested their will. Made them,at least,a better person. A good test of their manhood. If they could keep their health,it was a good experience anyway.

Better than being a dope dealer. No if's and but's about that.

[raylawpc]

The "crook" who caused it is named Robert Rubin and he was secretary of the U. S. Treasury Department during the Clinton administration. In 1997, Rubin loosened the regulation of derivatives. Overexposure to credit derivatives of mortgage-backed securities was a key reason for the failure of US financial institutions Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers, Merrill Lynch, American International Group, and Washington Mutual in 2008, which marked the beginning of this whole economic mess.

Rubin was the mentor to Timothy Geithner, the current Treasury Secretary. (You remember him . . . the guy who didn't pay his income taxes but was confirmed as Treasury Secretary anyway and now supervises the IRS.) Maybe its fitting that the underling of the fellow who got us into the mess now has to figure out how to clean it up.

Rubin just resigned as director and senior counselor of Citigroup after having been criticized for his performance. He was paid more than $126 million in cash and stock over his eight years there.

In January 2009, Rubin was named by Marketwatch as one of the "10 most unethical people in business."

[kikibalt]

The "crook" who caused it is named Robert Rubin and he was secretary of the U. S. Treasury Department during the Clinton administration. In 1997, Rubin loosened the regulation of derivatives. Overexposure to credit derivatives of mortgage-backed securities was a key reason for the failure of US financial institutions Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers, Merrill Lynch, American International Group, and Washington Mutual in 2008, which marked the beginning of this whole economic mess.

Rubin was the mentor to Timothy Geithner, the current Treasury Secretary. (You remember him . . . the guy who didn't pay his income taxes but was confirmed as Treasury Secretary anyway and now supervises the IRS.) Maybe its fitting that the underling of the fellow who got us into the mess now has to figure out how to clean it up.

Rubin just resigned as director and senior counselor of Citigroup after having been criticized for his performance. He was paid more than $126 million in cash and stock over his eight years there.

In January 2009, Rubin was named by Marketwatch as one of the "10 most unethical people in business."

Easy there, Tom, you're going to get a heart attack, you have to get over it, your party lost, remember?.... DD


Here's the guy that won....

[raylawpc]

This doesn't have anything to do with President Obama, Frank. Rubin worked in the Clinton administration.

I love America and I want only the best for our nation, so I want President Obama to succeed as chief executive. I'm pulling for him and I pray for him.

Secretary Geithner was a protegy of Robert Rubin, and I sincerely hope that seeing how Rubin screwed things up will be of value of Secretary Geithner as he advises President Obama on how to fix things.

(I will admit that, as a tax professional, I was extremely p.o.ed that a man who failed to pay his taxes was rewarded for that bad behavior by becoming the head of the Treasury Department - the same Department that oversees the IRS. Republican or Democrat, that's just wrong.)

[Rick Farris]

Ski Goldstein . . .

This Jewish heavyweight was a club fighter back in the 60's, he'd often drive out to Johnny Flores Gym in the San Fernanado Valley to work with my heavyweight stablemate, Al "Kit" Boursse'.

-Rick Farris

Check on that Rick. Ski wasn't Jewish. He was from Polish extraction or something around there. Very popular fella' in San Diego.

Thanks, Rog. Ski used to wear a Star of David on his trunks, however, so did Max Baer, and Max was not Jewish as most believe. Baer was German-Irish, and his Jewish handler Ancil Hoffman believed that being perceived Jewish would provide him with more media coverage, and he was right.

I didn't know Ski well, but recall he was well liked by the guys in the gym, and he could box pretty good.

-Rick

[raylawpc]

Maxie's "Jewishness" is an interesting question.

Ray Arcel said of Baer, "I saw him under the shower. Trust me, he isn't Jewish!"

From maxbaer.org:

Question: Was Max Baer Jewish or not ?

Answer: Max was half Jewish from his paternal line. However, because "Jewishness" is traced through the maternal line, Max isn't Jewish at all in the eyes of practicing Jews. Max's grandfather, the 6 foot plus, 200 pound plus Achille or Aschell Baer, was an Alsatian Jew from France. The Baer family home and the synagogue that Achille's mother would have gone to still exist in Alsace-Lorraine. The Jewish section of an area cemetery is full of Baer tombstones. Achille emigrated from France to Wyoming Territory about 1864. According to family history, Achille engaged the services of a marriage broker to find a wife. A photograph of Frances "Fanny" Fischl, a lovely 6 foot plus Jewess from Prague in Bohemia (now the Czech Republic) caught his eye. The two met and were married, on August 7, 1869 in nearby Laramie, which was still part of the Dakota Territory. It is suspected by family members that the only way the couple could communicate would be in Yiddish, since both came from different countries with far different native tongues. Max's father, Jacob was born in 1875 in Michigan. Jacob married Dora Bales, an Iowa girl of Scots-Irish descent on Christmas Eve of 1904 in Nebraska. Jacob and Dora negligently raised their children in the Catholic faith, but allowed the children to practice whatever faith they chose.

Max Baer Jr. states "when I was around 10 years old and living in a Jewish neighborhood in Sacramento, I came across a boy wearing a yarmulke," he recalled. "So I went home and asked my mother why that kid was wearing a beanie without a propeller."

Prior to the Schmeling bout, the fight's promoter, Jack Dempsey, and Max's manager, Ancil Hoffman, thought that wearing the Star of David on his trunks would make Max more popular in New York. The press was soon rampant with "is he or isn't he Jewish ?" questions. Max's mother Dora reportedly snapped one day at the endless queries and stated that "You can tell those people in New York that Maxie has got a Jewish father and if that doesn't make him Jewish enough for them, I don't know what will."

[Robinson]

I had read that too azbout Baer. That he wore the star to help 'get things
done'. More than being seen as supporting jews that may go on to be persecuted
in Germany-Europe.

It was perhaps as much a thing as 'Whoopi Goldberg' adding the Goldberg to her
last name..so as to help here career on.

Except of course, that Max had jewish ancestry in him of course.

[Rick Farris]

George Raft "Scrap Iron" Johnson . . .

This guy is an L.A. legend. He fought some of the best heavyweights in the world and the only guy I ever saw flatten him was a young Jerry Quarry. Jerry had a couple embarrassing draws to blemish his unbeaten record, so he needed something to get L.A. fans excited again. In round two, Quarry backs into the corner and the moment his back touches the turn-buckle, he fired a beautiful right cross that caught the on-coming Scrap-Iron right on the chin. The punch turned him around and he literally spun across the ring before boucing off the ropes and going down for the count. Scarp fought everybody, including Liston, Frazier, and many more. He had a granite chin

Scrap got his nickname as a boy, stacking scrap iron at his fathers auto dismantling business in Oklahoma. His father was a big fan of actor George Raft, thus came his first and middle names.

Scrap is still around. Mando Ramos would cross paths with him occasionally in the Harbor area of L.A.


-Rick Farris

[raylawpc]

I had read that too azbout Baer. That he wore the star to help 'get things
done'. More than being seen as supporting jews that may go on to be persecuted
in Germany-Europe.

It was perhaps as much a thing as 'Whoopi Goldberg' adding the Goldberg to her
last name..so as to help here career on.

Except of course, that Max had jewish ancestry in him of course.

Whoopi Goldberg? Do you mean Caryn Johnson?

[kikibalt]

George Raft "Scrap Iron" Johnson . . .

This guy is an L.A. legend. He fought some of the best heavyweights in the world and the only guy I ever saw flatten him was a young Jerry Quarry. Jerry had a couple embarrassing draws to blemish his unbeaten record, so he needed something to get L.A. fans excited again. In round two, Quarry backs into the corner and the moment his back touches the turn-buckle, he fired a beautiful right cross that caught the on-coming Scrap-Iron right on the chin. The punch turned him around and he literally spun across the ring before boucing off the ropes and going down for the count. Scarp fought everybody, including Liston, Frazier, and many more. He had a granite chin

Scrap got his nickname as a boy, stacking scrap iron at his fathers auto dismantling business in Oklahoma. His father was a big fan of actor George Raft, thus came his first and middle names.

Scrap is still around. Mando Ramos would cross paths with him occasionally in the Harbor area of L.A.


-Rick Farris

[Robinson]

I had read that too azbout Baer. That he wore the star to help 'get things
done'. More than being seen as supporting jews that may go on to be persecuted
in Germany-Europe.

It was perhaps as much a thing as 'Whoopi Goldberg' adding the Goldberg to her
last name..so as to help here career on.

Except of course, that Max had jewish ancestry in him of course.

Whoopi Goldberg? Do you mean Caryn Johnson?

Indeed :_