Better career - Lewis or Calzaghe?

[gobbles]

Threads like this bore the sh*t out of me quite frankly.

Literally what is the fcking purpose?????????? It's a bit late to do anything about it now!!!

Better career - Lewis or Calzaghe?...........Our survey said: if you don't like Calzaghe get on here and tell others, for the umpteenth time, why not!

I think Lennox Lewis gets revered in some quarters too much. He got his clock cleaned twice, not once, twice...that's a lot for an all time great in my book. Plus he was getting beat by Klitschko wasn't he? And as for Tyson....well fair do's beat the man in front of you but give me a prime Lewis and a prime Tyson and Tyson would do a Berbick on him in my book.

Speaking of a prime Tyson, that is exactly what Jeff Lacy was gettin billed as a smaller version of when he came over here. Mikkel Kessler, younger, harder hitter..JC did a great job. Chin?? Watch the Charles the hatchett Brewer(I think that one) fight, that was a HUGE knockdown in the first or second round, Joe's head looked like it was going to fly off. Could have pulled a Lennox Lewis, did he? No did he bollox, KO's the guy in the next round. Fantastic. I also thought that Sakio Bika win was a fantastic win considerin he was dirty and Joe had one good hand. Granted it all seemed to get a bit "hyped" at the end...but to be fair I don't think you can say that Hopkins' style has really changed all that much plus he virtually lives in the gym so age wasn't an issue. Plus he tried like fck to cheat. Granted Jones was a bit of a shell of the fighter he once was, that was a bit like beating up an old man even though Calzaghe goes on about it like he beat a legend.

Conclusion....pound for pound, prime for prime, Joe Calzaghe was a superior boxer to Lennox Lewis by quite some distance IMO. And before you say it I know that wasn't the answer to the question asked. I'd still say Calzaghe though.

It's not a case of knocking Calzaghe. He's being called the 'Greatest British Fighter Ever' (tm BBC), so it's only fair to compare him with a fighter who retired less than a decade ago, and had a career that, at worst, matches that of Joe's. I don't think anyone would say that Calzaghe is anything less than a very, very good fighter, just that he could have achieved more. Lewis took out the best, bar Bowe. Calzaghe's C.V. is missing Ottke and Beyer, both champions when Joe held the WBO strap, not to mention other 168lb'ers like Mundine or Larsson. Then there's the missed opportunities against Johnson. And this is before we get to the fact that Calzaghe expressed no desire to step up to 175lb's and fight Jones Jnr when he was at the top of his game. Never mind Lewis, or fighters like Buchanan and Wilde before him, the much maligned Ricky Hatton was prepared to take the risk, step up in weight and take on the best p4p fighter in the world. Calzaghe had that chance and never took it. As such, it's a little galling to hear him described as the best this country has ever produced. Joe was a very good fighter, probably the best Supermiddleweight ever. But he left the game with some doubts hanging over him.

name one fighter that hasn't ended their career with "doubts" hanging over them? Lewis certainly had loads of them, notably Klitschko

[states]

Every fighter has doubts hanging over them, as you say. But in Lewis's case, it's 'could he beat the all time greats', or 'should an old Lewis give Klitschko a rematch?' With Joe it's 'What could he have done if he'd really pushed himself in his prime?' A fairly major difference, I think you'd agree.

[fist]

Calzaghe. He was more entertaining and generally more talented IMO - unified SMW and proved he was the best over many years. As for Lewis...never enjoyed any of his fights...jab, jab, jab. Sparked out twice and just not my cup of tea. For me Calzaghe had the better career and is the best British fighter in modern times. That said, putting career aside and looking simply at talent and entertainment, I put Prince Naseem above the lot!

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

Calzaghe isn't fit to carry Lewis's nutsack, or should that read has too brittle hands to carry Lennox's sack?

Joe was in a piss poor division and didn't fight the best fighters in said piss poor division and then feasted on shot past prime champions. Lennox fought top 5 fighter after top 5 fighter. Look at how many top 10 contenders each fought, look at how many champions each fought. Calzaghe went for a period of 5 years where he only faced two top10 opponents, both of which were coming off loses.

Plus Joe isn't undefeated he has 1-2 unofficial losses

[whicker]

Firstly, Lewis twice came back from heavy defeats, which in itself is an achievement. This is something Naseem never managed to do, for example. For sure, Calzaghe never had "the option" but his ability to comeback was never tested.

I'm not saying this makes Lewis better, of course, just perhaps more notable, in an odd way.

An undefeated record always leaves the open question- "How would he have coped with defeat?"

Its hard to say- Calzaghe worked his way as cahmpion though a series of fighters with decent records, who never the less were not well know.

Lewis fought a lot more famous names (which is par for the course as a heavyweight) but pound for pound where they better than the guys Joe faced?

David Tua? Andrew Golota? Oliver McCall? Frank Bruno? Hasim Rahman?

[gobbles]

Calzaghe isn't fit to carry Lewis's nutsack, or should that read has too brittle hands to carry Lennox's sack?

Joe was in a piss poor division and didn't fight the best fighters in said piss poor division and then feasted on shot past prime champions. Lennox fought top 5 fighter after top 5 fighter. Look at how many top 10 contenders each fought, look at how many champions each fought. Calzaghe went for a period of 5 years where he only faced two top10 opponents, both of which were coming off loses.

Plus Joe isn't undefeated he has 1-2 unofficial losses

Which five-year period was that?

I would assume that anyone would consider Eubank, Reid, Woodhall, Sheika, Veit, Brewer, Mitchell, Lacy, Kessler and Hopkins would be considered top 5 in anyone's book.

By unofficial losses, I assume you mean wins. Like Lewis's unoffical loss to Mercer and the second fight with Holyfield (plus the draw)

Rather odd and some might say homosexual imagery too (who talks about holding other men's sacks?)

[Autobarn]

I really don't think lewis lost the Holy rematch or the Mercer fight.

Lewis is the better career. he went out there and fought loads of top ten fighters. Despite the 2 KO losses, when let's face it, he had little skill til Steward came along, and was poorly conditioned in Rahman 1. He avenged these, and had a dramatic slugging match with Vitali, which he won by stoppage, in hindsight one of his major wins.

With Joe, there are the fights he had. The fights he didn't have. Then you have to divide the fights he didn't have between a) not his fault, b) fighters he was kept away from c) safe matchmaking (easy to hit with right hands, little power = reason to match safely), d) all the fights Joe pulled out of through injury. Signiifcantly, this is what ppl normally discuss, on and on and on...

If Joe had fought a peak Mitchell, in perhaps hostile environs, who's to say that he wouldn't have been stopped? You never know.

Recent troubles of Froch, Macca and so on do show how hard it is for a top Brit to get the big fights. Lewis was frozen out of big fights for a couple of years, the system wasn't exactly in his favour, but his resume is the riskier and from the risks he went to bigger heights. If you choose to fight just in the UK, you aren't going to get the fights and you aren't getting the US TV money that is required for anything like a unification or a big fight.

[observer1]

Lewis.

[pasty_spud]

lewis..without a doubt


in fact calzaghe is'nt fit to lace lewis' gloves imo

[yiddo14]

Lewis had the better career.
Lewis also had more talent and was a better boxer(notice I say BOXER. Joe could thrown more punches, had faster hands and had better stamina, but Lewis had more talent and certainly threw better shots)

Calzaghe is given big kudos for beating Lacy(Ruddock, Bruno, Briggs, Grant, Tua Tucker...hell even Akinwande! were on his level)and Kessler(see Golota, the new Heavyweight star after the Bowe fights, Klitschko and Mercer. All of a similar standard, maybe higher standard)
He also get's props for Hopkins(see Holyfield)and Jones(Tyson was arguably a bigger danger given he had only been beat in recent years by the warrior that was Holyfield and Jones had spent some of his past few bouts out cold on the canvas)

In my eyes it's not even much of an argument.
Super Middleweight(as harsh as this may sound) for the most part of Joe's reign, was seen as no more than a stepping stone for great fighters who couldn't fight at Middle or a place where guys who didn't have the talent to make a mark at Middle or Light Heavye could earn a few bob and maybe win a strap.
Heavyweight by comparison was and still is, and always will be the marquee division of the sport we love. To the extent that light heavyweights and cruiserweights will pack on as much weight as they can just to try and compete with the big boys.

Both quality fighters, Lewis is a challenger for all time best Brit. Joe is top 10-12 all time Brit.

[gobbles]

Lewis had the better career.
Lewis also had more talent and was a better boxer(notice I say BOXER. Joe could thrown more punches, had faster hands and had better stamina, but Lewis had more talent and certainly threw better shots)

Calzaghe is given big kudos for beating Lacy(Ruddock, Bruno, Briggs, Grant, Tua Tucker...hell even Akinwande! were on his level)and Kessler(see Golota, the new Heavyweight star after the Bowe fights, Klitschko and Mercer. All of a similar standard, maybe higher standard)
He also get's props for Hopkins(see Holyfield)and Jones(Tyson was arguably a bigger danger given he had only been beat in recent years by the warrior that was Holyfield and Jones had spent some of his past few bouts out cold on the canvas)

In my eyes it's not even much of an argument.
Super Middleweight(as harsh as this may sound) for the most part of Joe's reign, was seen as no more than a stepping stone for great fighters who couldn't fight at Middle or a place where guys who didn't have the talent to make a mark at Middle or Light Heavye could earn a few bob and maybe win a strap.
Heavyweight by comparison was and still is, and always will be the marquee division of the sport we love. To the extent that light heavyweights and cruiserweights will pack on as much weight as they can just to try and compete with the big boys.

Both quality fighters, Lewis is a challenger for all time best Brit. Joe is top 10-12 all time Brit.

Golota?! He had talent but would cave in or burst into tears the first time someone pulled a face at him. Akinwande wasn't even a real fight, that's like giving Lewis huge props for his second fight with McCall when the guy was high on drugs and having a mental breakdown.

[jamesmcdonnell]

The final opponent of each fighter speaks volumes IMO

What an utterly bollocks remark!

Lewis got lucky against Klitschko and was behind on the scorecards when Klitschko got stopped on cuts. Prior to that he fought Tyson, who could barely move his arms he was so gone.

Who was more shot, Tyson or Jones? Tyson obviously.

Yet he took stepaside money to avoid Tyson, wouldn't take the short end of the purse to face Bowe when Bowe was champion and didn't face Holyfield until he was well on the slide and, many would say, got lucky in the second fight. The genuine top fighters Lewis faced at their peak are few and far between and he was dull too.

Calzaghe had the better career. he had fewer opportunities and finished with a flawless record.

what a load of shite.

Lewis was dull? Jesus, most of calzaghe's fight were a cure for insomnia. Calzaghe had plenty of opportunities, he just didn't want to travel anywhere and take them. He actually had the temerity to say he didn't travel abroad because he was scared of flying, and then was shown sitting at ringside for a fight in Vegas!

Lewis took stepaside money, because Tyson wasn't going to fight him no matter what happened, he would have just vacated the belt if Lewis didn't.

You must be Joe's nephew mate.

[Coco]

Fighting in the heavyweight division always carries more kudos and Lewis also avenged his two losses conclusively.
Furthermore Lewis fought everyone other than Bowe who ducked him and he took a payday against the shot Tyson.

JC just doesn't have the same resume, despite having a similar longevity and being unbeaten

[sendo]

Lewis. Fought the best out there from 1992 - 2003. Calzaghe fought the best out there in 2007.

Agreed

Hatton and Haye both pushing Calzaghe, wins against Pacman and Wladimir and I would put them both above him.

[hitman_hatton1]

calzaghe.

if joe had been knocked out twice we wouldn't even be discussing this.

lewis was knocked out by a lacy type in mccall.

then humbled by an omar sheika level fighter in hasim rahman.

[Autobarn]

How many top 10 world class opponents did Lewis fight? (Ruddock, Bruno, Morrison, Mercer, McCall, Rahman, Briggs, Tua, Grant, Golota, Holyfield, Tyson, Botha, Klitschko, Akinwande)

How many top 10 opponents did Calzaghe fight? (Reid, Woodhall, Sheika, Brewer, Mitchell, Lacy, Kessler, Hopkins, Jones)

Lewis had about 19 fights in world class whereas Joe had about 9.

How many crushing KOs did Lewis scor,e and how many flap happy premature stoppages has Joe got?

Lewis operated at a higher level for longer. Still Joe's done very well and been one of the UK's major names, which many of us would never believed possible in 2004 and 2005.

[hitman_hatton1]

Lewis. Fought the best out there from 1992 - 2003. Calzaghe fought the best out there in 2007.

rubbish.

for a start he never got a holyfield fight until 99.

a little like joe he was kept waiting to unify the belts.

guys like ruddock, tucker and briggs were not a great deal better than the solid contenders that calzaghe were beating like brewer, mitchell and reid.

and he blew the 1st holyfield fight by being too cautious.

[banjo]

Lewis. Fought the best out there from 1992 - 2003. Calzaghe fought the best out there in 2007.

rubbish.

for a start he never got a holyfield fight until 99.

a little like joe he was kept waiting to unify the belts.

guys like ruddock, tucker and briggs were not a great deal better than the solid contenders that calzaghe were beating like brewer, mitchell and reid.

and he blew the 1st holyfield fight by being too cautious.

You'll find "he blew the first fight" because he didn't protest against a woman being allowed to judge a boxing match

[hitman_hatton1]

i'll emphasise the point again.

in case u never got it first time.

if calzaghe had been sparked out twice we would never be having this discussion.

i do rate lewis by the way.

fabulous fighter.

[Poncey]

Lewis also was unable to transcend weight divisions, thus reducing the available opponents.

Lennox Lewis had the better career

[Quixall]

Let the debate begin...

Lewis!

Ruddock
Holyfield
Tyson
Briggs
Weaver
Biggs
Botha
Akinwande
Klitschko


No contest.

Don't forget Bruno DG........

So this is where you are hiding these days

[Asterix]

The final opponent of each fighter speaks volumes IMO

What an utterly bollocks remark!

Lewis got lucky against Klitschko and was behind on the scorecards when Klitschko got stopped on cuts.

I don't think Lewis was lucky. After all, it was his punches that tore Vitali's face to shreds. Lewis would have just beaten him up worse if it had continued.

[Mooresy]

Lewis. Without a doubt.

[Quixall]

I think that they both had good career wins.......

But only Lewis what you could call a career defining fight, that could be recognised by most people. Lewis fought some good opponents in his time, Ruddock, Tua, Mercer, Golota, etc etc, but only had three major fights and that was Tyson and the two Holyfield fights. Tyson was pretty shot by the time that Lewis fought him, so it could be said that Lewis' only one true defining fight was his second against Holyfield....

Calzaghe also fought some good opponents in Eubank, Lacy and Kessler, but he had no truely recognised defining fight, because as we all know, Hopkins and Jones were both way past their individual primes when Calzaghe foght them, in particular Jones, who was a shadow of the fighter that beat the likes of Toney and Griffin. Hopkins was less past his best than was the case with Jones, but he was still 43 years of age and in all honesty, i think that Hopkins won the fight by a round......

Defining fight for Leweis would be Holyfield II and for Calzaghe a less recognised defining fight in Kessler, which is acknowledged by Calzaghe himself. Bith were very good fighters, but Lewis edges it for me, because he was active in America a lot sooner and was mixing with the big names for a lot longer than was the case with Calzaghe who only rose to prominence and gained some reputation in the last 18 months to two years of his career.....

So it's Lewis for me.....

[gobbles]

The final opponent of each fighter speaks volumes IMO

What an utterly bollocks remark!

Lewis got lucky against Klitschko and was behind on the scorecards when Klitschko got stopped on cuts. Prior to that he fought Tyson, who could barely move his arms he was so gone.

Who was more shot, Tyson or Jones? Tyson obviously.

Yet he took stepaside money to avoid Tyson, wouldn't take the short end of the purse to face Bowe when Bowe was champion and didn't face Holyfield until he was well on the slide and, many would say, got lucky in the second fight. The genuine top fighters Lewis faced at their peak are few and far between and he was dull too.

Calzaghe had the better career. he had fewer opportunities and finished with a flawless record.

what a load of shite.

Lewis was dull? Jesus, most of calzaghe's fight were a cure for insomnia. Calzaghe had plenty of opportunities, he just didn't want to travel anywhere and take them. He actually had the temerity to say he didn't travel abroad because he was scared of flying, and then was shown sitting at ringside for a fight in Vegas!

Lewis took stepaside money, because Tyson wasn't going to fight him no matter what happened, he would have just vacated the belt if Lewis didn't.

You must be Joe's nephew mate.

The key of this debate is whether Calzaghe really did have opportunities to fight the likes of Jones/Hopkins "in their prime". I believe he didn't. Lewis got his chances because he was a heavyweight, and Olympic champion. Because of this was showcased in the US from early in his career. It's different for heavyweights, even Herbie Hide boxed in Vegas. But the freedom to move up and down weight classes works both ways. It also means other fighters have the freedom to move up and down weight classes to avoid you. We know that Hopkins agreed and then backed out of a Calzaghe fight, I don't think anyone really believes there was an offer for a Jones-Calzaghe, or Ottke-Calzaghe fight ever made by the other side. So who? The Johnson fight ended in a mess because of injuries and Joe's messy divorce, while Calzaghe picked Kessler ahead of Woods.

Yes, Lewis was dull. After he got sparked by McCall, Steward had him develop the same negative style he has given to Wladimir and how many exciting fights were there? Holyfield I was tense, Grant he did a job, even if he finished Grant off with a blatant foul, Briggs was exciting, against Golota he did a good job, but McCall 2, Akinwande, Mavrovic, Holyfield 2 and Tua were among the dullest heavyweight fights in history. Botha and Rahman were mismatches and Tyson was beaten before he got in the ring.

And, why is it all the anti-Calzaghe brigade on here, try to make things personal? Can't handle a debate without insults? Pathetic.