making the weight

dandantheweatherman · Post by **dandantheweatherman** » 29 Jun 2004, 10:07

Something I've always been curious about is how boxers go about making the weight. I presume that watching their diet and training is the main thing, but presumably there are legal products that could be used to facilitate making the weight? There was a piece in this month's Boxing Monthly about Paul Ingle which suggested this which set me thinking about this. Anyone know what sort of products would be used?

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 29 Jun 2004, 10:16

Laxatives, diuretic tablets and other herbal remedies. I also believe that kelp tablets are good for stimulating the thyroid and increasing the metabolism of fat.

However, there is no substitute for correct diet and training, and fighters (like Bernard Hopkins) who fight at or near their natural weight will generally have longer careers.

I was talking to someone at a show who had worked with lots of fighters about this, and he remarked how rare it was for anyone to fight at their natural weight.

Thinking about it, could this explain why the old timers were able to have much longer and more active careers? Ray Robinson for instance fought at his natural weight, wheras today he would probably have fought at lightweight or even Jr Welter, before moving on up through the weights.

The detrimental effects of 'boiling down' to make weight are well known, but more and more fighters are trying to gain advantages by fighting below their natural weight so they outweight their opponents come fight night.

Ricky Hatton and Scott Harrison are perfect examples of this, Hatton has remarked in an interview that he weights 11 stone 2, (156lbs) come fight night, a full 16 lbs over the weight limit. Harrison must weight in over the lightweight limit come fight night too. Over the course of a career this must surely mean a lot of the time in the early part of training camp is about losing weight.

steve richards · Post by **steve richards** » 29 Jun 2004, 11:04

Most boxers walk around a stone or so above their natural weight, there are a few exeptions to the rule, Hatton is the major one and also Harrison and Calzaghe, who when out of the gym are 2 maybe 3 stone above fight weight ( a report said calzaghe was 14 stone ish) Wankw fwerren was slagging Tyson off in the papers saying he's 2 stone above fighting weight and he's not seen a gym for 12 months and then you've got hatton 2.5 stone above fight weight (which is normal for him) and he's fighting 4 times a year, the people who heep trim dont boil themselves down to much will have a far longer career ( and life) in some cases.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 29 Jun 2004, 11:08

How do fighters like Ricky Hatton put on over a stone in weight in 24 hours? Is it liquid replacement?

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 29 Jun 2004, 11:11

I cannot see how it could be anything else, there's no way you're going to regain muscle or fat in that period of time, so he must be severely dehydrated beforehand. If it weren't for the fact that Hatton himself stated he came in at 11st 2, I wouldn't have believed it myself.

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 29 Jun 2004, 11:15

gotta be liquid replacement and a bit of food...

remember a litre of water weighs 1kg.....

a hard workout you can lose about 4kg which is pure fluid...

dangerous game and people react differently.

Scott Dixon and Wayne Alexander put on very little weight between the weigh in and the fight (2-3lbs) another friend of mine Karim Bouali was like Hatton, he used to put on 12-14lbs.....

Diuretics etc are all illegal and you will be banned if the board find them in your Urine!!! Natural laxatives could help flush out the stomach and intestines.......

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 29 Jun 2004, 11:16

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I cannot see how it could be anything else, there's no way you're going to regain muscle or fat in that period of time, so he must be severely dehydrated beforehand. If it weren't for the fact that Hatton himself stated he came in at 11st 2, I wouldn't have believed it myself.

James you only need to look at a photo of Hatton at a weigh in and a photo on the night of the fight to see how dehydrated he really is.....

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 29 Jun 2004, 11:27

Yeah last time out, he looked very very good at the weight in, really cut and taut, and looked noticably softer during the fight. His listlessness cannot all have been psychological, and he threw noticably less punches during the Vilches fight, and spent a lot of time resting in the clinches.

I saw a Hatton interview somewhere where he said that the first few of weeks of his training camp were spent losing weight, and then after that he gets to the serious work. This means he generally had a 10 week training camp, and it was obvious that his preparation for Vilches wasn't right.

I actually have a copy of a book which outlines Hatton's training methods, quite unorthodox actually, a lot of jumping exercises combined with bagwork.

Got it from a book called 'Boxing's greatest workouts' which I'm reviewing for Max, by Gary Todd, interesting stuff in there.....

Gary, there's the plug, where's my money? nudge nudge...

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 29 Jun 2004, 11:30

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
I actually have a copy of a book which outlines Hatton's training methods, quite unorthodox actually, a lot of jumping exercises combined with bagwork.

yeah they showed him jumping over beams on Ringside I think!!!!
boxers are slowly moving away from endless roadwork to more explosive specific training

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 29 Jun 2004, 11:43

I used to be in contact with a conditioning coach called Stephen Sherry, who worked with a variety of professional atheletes. He said that out of all the people he worked with, boxers by far had the worst training regimes, and that generally the workouts they did really were not suited to the sports.

His opinion (and bear in mind he worked with many high profile atheletes, including baseball, basketball and American football teams), was that roadwork was largely a waste of energy, and that whilst it might benefit overall cardiovascular fitness, that sprint work and timed runs were much better.

He had some very interesting things to say about the lack of basic conditioning knowledge that high profile boxing trainers had, and overall he believed boxing training in the main to be anachronistic and very backward.

He said the fighter who he thought had the best training regime that he worked for was Holyfield, and Holyfield had by far the most scientific training methods, using circuit training and modern conditioning equipment. Holyfield was known to hate roadwork, and often did very little, but in his prime how often was his stamina suspect?

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 29 Jun 2004, 11:45

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I used to be in contact with a conditioning coach called Stephen Sherry, who worked with a variety of professional atheletes. He said that out of all the people he worked with, boxers by far had the worst training regimes, and that generally the workouts they did really were not suited to the sports.

His opinion (and bear in mind he worked with many high profile atheletes, including baseball, basketball and American football teams), was that roadwork was largely a waste of energy, and that whilst it might benefit overall cardiovascular fitness, that sprint work and timed runs were much better.

He had some very interesting things to say about the lack of basic conditioning knowledge that high profile boxing trainers had, and overall he believed boxing training in the main to be anachronistic and very backward.

He said the fighter who he thought had the best training regime that he worked for was Holyfield, and Holyfield had by far the most scientific training methods, using circuit training and modern conditioning equipment. Holyfield was known to hate roadwork, and often did very little, but in his prime how often was his stamina suspect?

definately agree with you there......
I think circuit training and spring/track sessions are much more beneficial for fitness purposes... people however need to put in the miles to get the weight off IMO

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 29 Jun 2004, 11:47

Yes, however, if they weren't so out of shape between fights, they wouldn't need it though, and you could lose the weight doing gym rowing just as easily, and it's more explosive.

Another thing that strikes me as madness is the practice of running in heavy boots, it totally shot the fornicate out of Michael Spinks' knees, and yet you still get fighters who do it to this day. Hello, ever heard of trainers and ankle weights?

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 29 Jun 2004, 12:06

Micky Ward used to run up hills didn't he? I'm sure he said he used to run for 2:30 and then sprint for 30 secs, alternately. This allowed him to put bursts of punches together repeatedly over the course of a fight.

Thinking about it, at my gym when I'm not looking around for a nice piece of ass I often notice that I'm the only one who puts their treadmill on an incline (it gradually gets steeper and steeper and I consider it a killer of a run). I see lots of others running away for a measley half hour on a flat, probably thinking they're quite fit. But I bet if you whack that incline up a bit they'll drop after 5 minutes.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 29 Jun 2004, 12:09

Incline running is far better for burning fat and general fitness.

Having said all this, I do little exercise apart from an hour and a half cyling to work and back every day, so who am I to talk.

It does seem stupid though that boxers run 4-10 miles a day, and that somehow that is supposed to give them the right sort of stamina for a fight where they fight in 30 second bursts most of the time. Explosive sprint work combined with hill running surely would be the most beneficial.

Nice piece of ass? I hope it's a mixed gym.

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 29 Jun 2004, 12:12

Kilburn wrote:Micky Ward used to run up hills didn't he? I'm sure he said he used to run for 2:30 and then sprint for 30 secs, alternately. This allowed him to put bursts of punches together repeatedly over the course of a fight.

Thinking about it, at my gym when I'm not looking around for a nice piece of ass I often notice that I'm the only one who puts their treadmill on an incline (it gradually gets steeper and steeper and I consider it a killer of a run). I see lots of others running away for a measley half hour on a flat, probably thinking they're quite fit. But I bet if you whack that incline up a bit they'll drop after 5 minutes.

i can run 30 minutes easy but did some hill sprints with one of my friends a week or two ago, we are only talking 5 x 100m, and i thought i was going to die.....

Coconut · Post by **Coconut** » 29 Jun 2004, 12:20

The club I did most of my work at, the trainer said we should never do steady road work unless we were looking for weight loss, and even then sparingly. Hill work, interval sprints, all kinds of fartlek running, but training was basically geared to working in bursts all the time. At the time I was there, we weren't great boxers (and I brought the average down...) but we won plenty of bouts in the last round over guys who could run 6 miles really well.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 29 Jun 2004, 12:20

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Nice piece of ass? I hope it's a mixed gym.

A gym with no women would be like a Ferrari with no engine in it. Looks promising from outside but once you get in there you realise it's pointless.