allegedly: 'Calzaghe was the biggest disappointment......

[the patriot]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/gene ... 08091.html

allegedly: 'Calzaghe was the biggest disappointment. Total disloyalty...'

After nearly 30 years of matchmaking, the promoter reflects on the ups and downs of a life in boxing – and explains why there will be more champions to come

The gun used to shoot John Lennon was still smoking when allegedly promoted his first licensed boxing show, at the Bloomsbury Crest Hotel in central London back in December 1980. And in November it will be 20 years since another gun was turned on Warren himself, by a mystery assailant, the former world light-welterweight champion Terry Marsh having been cleared of attempted murder. But then scarcely a year goes by in Warren's tumultuous life without this anniversary, that milestone, some worthy of celebration and some not.


Meanwhile, the show goes on, literally so in the case of Warren's new protégés, the young Olympians James DeGale, Frankie Gavin and Billy Joe Saunders. In Birmingham on 28 February, Warren's 57th birthday, they all make their professional debuts, the start of what their backer believes could, should, be the road to global fame and fabulous fortune.

"If James DeGale ends up winning the world title he will be the first [British] Olympic gold medallist to do so, at least in my memory," Warren says. "If he stays focused he can do it. Frankie Gavin the same. He's a bit of a playboy but a great little fighter. And Billy Joe's a natural, a Romany kid, and none of them have ever won world titles. We'll see whether he's got the discipline, because you can get by on talent but only so far. Hard work and dedication get you over the line."

Nobody ever accused Warren of a lack of dedication, or a lack of judgement. Rarely does he overestimate a boxer, which is where dozens of other managers and promoters have slipped up down the years. It was a surprise, therefore, to hear him suggesting in December that he could yet guide Audley Harrison to a world title, having for years been one of the big man's most outspoken critics. But the rapprochement didn't survive Harrison's latest dispiriting defeat, to the Irish journeyman Martin Rogan.

"I've let him go. We spoke after he got knocked out by Michael Sprott on one of my shows and he felt he still had it in him. I decided I would try to get it going. It didn't work. Audley's career's been like Pop Idol in reverse. A blaze of glory fizzling out to nothing. His problem is that he's not got the devil in him."

Which, as we sit back in the grand atrium of London's Landmark Hotel, begs a question. Is the devil still in Warren himself, now that he is wealthy beyond any dreams he could have entertained as a teenager taking home, to the family's council flat in Islington, the £8 weekly pay packet he earned as a trainee solicitor's clerk with J Tickle & Co on Southampton Row?

He smiles. "There are times I think 'screw this, it's a pain in the arse'. I get fed up with some of the people I deal with. But if you don't get disappointments in life, you don't appreciate the good things."

It is an admirable philosophy, but there is still a disappointment he wants to get off his chest, in the form of Joe Calzaghe, who split abruptly from Warren claiming that he was owed money. It is the Noble Art's perennial lament. And while Warren holds no great warmth towards Mickey Duff, one of the cartel of promoters who didn't exactly welcome him on to the scene with open arms all those years ago, he is fond of quoting what Duff once said about relationships in boxing: if you want loyalty, get a dog.

"The Calzaghe thing was the biggest disappointment I've ever had," he says, as softly spoken as ever but now leaning forward, eyes shining. "Total disloyalty."

The words hang in the air, while I dare to suggest that the now retired champ seems like a bright and decent fellow. "In some ways he is, but he's also small-minded, with a little bit of that green eye. He used to moan years ago that he didn't get the same publicity as Ricky Hatton and Prince Naseem. Well, Ricky went out and promoted himself. He got off his arse, doing after-dinner speaking and all that, though the downside of that was that he became a boozer. And Naz captured a whole generation of young boxing fans. I did deals with TV for Joe on the back of him. I said, 'We've got Naz, we've got [Frank] Bruno, and we've got Calzaghe ... if you want them you've got to take him as well'. That's how we got him going."

As for Naseem and Hatton, they too eventually divorced themselves from Warren. If he'd bought loyalty every time he lost a fighter, his Hertfordshire mansion would look like Battersea Dogs' Home.

"Well," he says, "with Ricky I expected it deep down. There wasn't huge closeness there. But I did a good job with him. He'd banked seven million quid even before he beat Kosta Tszyu, so if Kosta had beaten him he'd have been set up. That's my philosophy. Get 'em to the stage where they're OK even if it goes tits up." A heavy sigh. "Calzaghe banked £18m with me, and sure, I made money too. That's the business I'm in. If I don't make money they're not going to make money. On his own he did some stupid deals. The 50-50 deal with [Bernard] Hopkins was ridiculous, and not learning from it, doing another 50-50 with [Roy] Jones..."

Warren shakes his head at what might have been. "It's like Arsenal signing Arshavin. It all went to the wire because everyone was playing their cards. Whatever sport you're in, you go in to negotiate with your best cards. But Roy Jones couldn't get arrested before the Calzaghe fight. Why give him half the promotion? Crazy."

I ask him whether he has seen Calzaghe since. "I've had one meeting with him, at a hotel in Paddington. It got very heated. His father never wanted it [the split], you know. He kept sending me texts saying I was the best fella in the world. Of course, I appreciated his position. Blood's thicker than water. But like I said to him, if my kids do something wrong, I'm there for them, I'll love and support them, but I will also tell them that they've done wrong."

Needless to add, Warren is well aware that one, two or all three of the young boxers he has fighting in Birmingham later this month might, somewhere down the line, do a Calzaghe. For boxing people, there are almost as many occupational hazards outside the ring as there are inside. But while they are with him, they will get the benefit of decades of astute matchmaking in a sport that Warren believes is healthier than ever. "People talk about the good old days but even Wembley back then only held 10,000. We do shows now where we get 20,000, in the O2 Arena or up at the MEN."

And what about the astute matchmaking? What does he consider to have been his greatest triumphs?

"Oh, sending Danny Williams over and seeing him knock out [Mike] Tyson, that was a good bit of matchmaking. Calzaghe beating [Jeff] Lacy, Hatton beating Tszyu. The knockout punch is about perfect timing, and so is matchmaking, picking the right guy at the right time. I think I've been good at it. I've managed more British, European and world champions than anyone. But you never know. At the moment I've got Amir Khan fighting [Marco Antonio] Barrera, and I'm hoping I've got it right but I might not have. It's a responsibility, looking after somebody's kid. That's why I like to meet the parents. The other week I met [Tony] Jeffries, the kid from Sunderland. I made him my offer and his dad wanted to take it, but the lad said he'd been offered huge money elsewhere. I said, 'Great, but it's undeliverable.' He said, 'Well, I'm going with it.' Sure enough, the guy couldn't deliver. So Jeffries came back to me and asked for the deal I'd offered. I said, 'I'm sorry, that bus has gone, I've spent the money elsewhere.' And that was that. A great shame, really."

Warren smiles. He should worry. At almost 57 he has his health [despite losing half a lung on the operating table following the shooting], his hair [immaculately blow-dried], his fortune and all his old muckers from boyhood. "Yeah, we still meet once a month, seven or eight of us. One's a cab driver, another's an architect, there are a couple of rascals. We turn back the clock and have a laugh."

They must all laugh their socks off at his story of the one that got away, one that has nothing to do with boxing. "A pal of mine, Jay Larkin, rang one day while the Don King case was going on [Warren sued King, unsuccessfully, over a contractual dispute]. He invited me to meet this girl who had a musical she wanted to put on, and was looking for investors. We met at Langan's, had a nice lunch, and she told me about it. I said, 'I'm in, I'll put the money up next week.' But then the judge froze all my assets." A pause, perfectly timed. "The show was Mamma Mia. It's made billions." Has he been to see it? "You're joking." He grins. "That's how I met my Waterloo."

The Olympic gold medal winner James DeGale, and fellow Olympians Frankie Gavin and Billy Joe Saunders, make their professional boxing debuts at the NIA in Birmingham on 28 February. For tickets, call 0844 338 8000 or visit http://www.theticketfactory.co.uk

[banjo]

"Audley's career's been like Pop Idol in reverse. A blaze of glory fizzling out to nothing."

[DG.]

Fwank is in it for himself.

It it suits him he will keep you on if you lose - if it does not - adios!

The Promoter should mever make more money than the fighter and that is what haened with Naz.most likely Calzaghe and Hatton also.

Warren always comes aross as decent - h is being interviewed so he would, wouldn't he?

[black panther]

One think that irks me about promoters is that IMO they think they own boxers, that boxers owe them something. Promoters work for boxers, not the other way round. And if a fighter feels his promoter isn't doing his job properly, he's got every right to go elsewhere without calls of disloyalty. There ain't no friends in business, I tell ya!

[stujones]

Warren still claiming he was heavily involved in the Williams vs Tyson promotion.

[lefthook82]

Tony Jeffries isn't the sharpest chap in the world is he

If Warren is telling you money is undeliverable you should damn well listen. That being said seems a bit petty to show him up like that

[SticknMove]

Warren broke into the cartel of Lawless/Duff/Astaire (an influentional big name that lurked in the background). As I recall, and it’s only my instinctual controversial notion, the former pincipals built their fighters into a position, at the right time, where they would fight for the biggest prize in the sport – being a world champion in the days when there were WBC/WBA and then IBF. When they fulfilled their promise they defended once or twice and pretty much disappeared.

Warren, over a ever changing period of time and with the proliferation of titles on offer, learned how to earn him and his fighters money whilst, perhaps, not maintaining the integrity of the sport.

You have to remember he was the foremost promoter at a time when Benn/Eubank/Watson’s substance sold the game domestically and the cynical edge in me says he lucked out a bit especially with Naz waiting in the wings.

[whicker]

What annoys me about articles like that is the way they describe Martin Rogans as a "Journeyman." Clearly the author isn't familar with what terms like that mean.

[Coco]

I actually agree with most of what FW has said, he is a fantastic manager and promoter, and all his fighters get well looked after, financially and matching wise.
We often complain about him putting on poorly matched shows, but his fighters get paid well and it moves them along to other things.
If you are in his cleak you are in a great position, he also manages other fighters who aren't important to him and they do get left out untill it suits him, but as I said if you are in his cleak you are made.
You rarely hear his fighters complaining about him, and the ones that do, do it because thay want to keep all the money for themselves while not appreciating the work he has done

[gobbles]

What annoys me about articles like that is the way they describe Martin Rogans as a "Journeyman." Clearly the author isn't familar with what terms like that mean.

The term journeyman has changed in Britain so much over the years. These days people call people like Peter Buckley, David Kehoe and Ojah Abrahams journeymen. But a journeyman is someone who takes fights away from home but wins his share and always gives value, not just someone who makes up the numbers.
In Four Kings, George Kimball describes Kirkland Laing as a "Jamaican-born journeyman", which is obviously ridiculous, but it shows how some people see journeymen as just below contender status.

[stujones]

It is annoying that in 30 years in the business one of his, self proclaimed, best pieces of business he did - he actually had next to nothing to do. Tyson vs Williams was not a Sports Network show.

He couldn't even be arsed to go to the states and support his fighter - thats how confident he was.

[hitman_hatton1]

same old same old.

calzaghe leaves him for 1 fight after 11 yrs loyal service.

ludicrous comment from warren.

hatton became a boozer cos of his after dinner speaking was another load of bull.

[SticknMove]

I actually agree with most of what FW has said, he is a fantastic manager and promoter, and all his fighters get well looked after, financially and matching wise.
We often complain about him putting on poorly matched shows, but his fighters get paid well and it moves them along to other things.
If you are in his cleak you are in a great position, he also manages other fighters who aren't important to him and they do get left out untill it suits him, but as I said if you are in his cleak you are made.
You rarely hear his fighters complaining about him, and the ones that do, do it because thay want to keep all the money for themselves while not appreciating the work he has done

I wouldn't disagree with that pal.

There is so much in between that he has had to deal with. Boxers, at any level can be on the edge of will they or wont they whilst he rubberstamps the bill. Years ago bills were filled with attractive 50/50 60/40 matchups. That was the bread and butter of the game. But overprotecting fighters is plain wrong. Lower down the undercard yes. But there has to be 3/4 fights on abill that have a sense of anticipation.

[observer1]

What does he expect from Calzaghe? The guy is a fraud, sooner or later he was going to leave him at the end of his career, and make the most of what is left.

Fact is, unlike Naseem and Hatton, Calzaghe needed Warren.

Naseem and Hatton were/are proper champions in tough weight classes. With Nas reigning undisputed for a good while. Their entertaining.

Calzaghe on the other hand has had a very very engineered career, no real tough challenges, and as in a a very poor weight class. Just one weight class below and above there were big names like Hopkins, Winky, RJJ, Tarver, Toney, Johnon, Tarver etc.

I mean Calzaghe was/is unknown compared to those guys, and he had the opportunity to have some huge bouts with these guys at a catch weight. Instead, he chose to spend 10 years in arguably the worst Division in Boxing. Which, imo, i pretty pathetic, and Joe's own undoing. It makes it worse that Joe is actually a talented Boxer.

[banjo]

observer makes me giggle

Is Calzaghe the legend people make him out to be? Absolutely not, but neither are the likes of Hopkins, Jones or Mayweather.

Hopkins spent 10 years fighting in arguarbly the worst division in boxing with his biggest wins coming against welterweights and he the only time he put it on the line was against Tarver when he went up to light heavy(but lets face it, Tarver was never really that good was he?)

Jones beat some absolute garbage in his career, other than Toney and a green Hopkins who did he beat?(McCallum doesn't count because he was 100 years old) Ricky Frazier? Come on, that guy was worse than Pudwill

Mayweather? Well if you want an engineered career then look no further than Floyd. Biggest win on his slate was over an old Oscar who had fought less than 6 rounds in nearly 3 years, yup, really outstanding that isn't it? One big win and then all of a sudden he's King Shit Of The Caca Tribe and then he beats the overmatched Hatton, calls himself the greatest of all-time and then quits without fighting his closest challengers.

I'd love to be in Calzaghes shoes and if somebody came up to me and called me a fraud then my reply would be "yeah but I'm a rich one"

Anyway back to Warren whinging about loyalty, as another poster said - There are no friends, no loyalty when it comes to business - and Frank should know this.

[dondada]

It is annoying that in 30 years in the business one of his, self proclaimed, best pieces of business he did - he actually had next to nothing to do. Tyson vs Williams was not a Sports Network show.

He couldn't even be arsed to go to the states and support his fighter - thats how confident he was.

Aye. Yet another wholly uncritical puff piece.

Where's the entirely relevant mention then of Calzaghe suing Warren for allegedly withholding a big old lump of money? Or has that been resolved?

[coneye]

qUITE SIMPLE IN HIS WORLD REALLY-----If a fighter cannot produce and make him money he goes , Thats Buisness, --- If a fighter decides he can make more elswhere and goes , THATS DISLOYAL .

[DG.]

qUITE SIMPLE IN HIS WORLD REALLY-----If a fighter cannot produce and make him money he goes , Thats Buisness, --- If a fighter decides he can make more elswhere and goes , THATS DISLOYAL .

Fwanks such a tosser!

[Autobarn]

What does he expect from Calzaghe? The guy is a fraud, sooner or later he was going to leave him at the end of his career, and make the most of what is left.

Fact is, unlike Naseem and Hatton, Calzaghe needed Warren.

Naseem and Hatton were/are proper champions in tough weight classes. With Nas reigning undisputed for a good while. Their entertaining.

Calzaghe on the other hand has had a very very engineered career, no real tough challenges, and as in a a very poor weight class. Just one weight class below and above there were big names like Hopkins, Winky, RJJ, Tarver, Toney, Johnon, Tarver etc.

I mean Calzaghe was/is unknown compared to those guys, and he had the opportunity to have some huge bouts with these guys at a catch weight. Instead, he chose to spend 10 years in arguably the worst Division in Boxing. Which, imo, i pretty pathetic, and Joe's own undoing. It makes it worse that Joe is actually a talented Boxer.

Calzaghe did seem to have an engineered career, but he went and bloody ruined the script by beating Kessler and Lacy, champions of so called more authentic titles - particularly Kessler, a two belt champ. In very convincing performances. It was a happy surprise, sort of, but it was disappointing that the light heavy bore fests didn't lead to something exciting again.

You have to give him credit for beating the former world title holders on his record, and for longevity. It took me a long tiem to be convinced, then the fights at the end were a bit of a letdown. But sadly that's where the money was, Jones and Hopkins.

Not sure super middle is the worst. Jones and Hopkins' divisions were mostly poor as well. All were in their own lil' comfort zones. Economics didn't dictate that they had to fight each other when it mattered. I think there's a fundamental difference between 160-175, and say 112-122. In the lower divisions, they all have to fight each other, and they do it again and again having the hardest fights. It's just that the little guys have to put in epic efforts for their bread, whereas the likes of Calzaghe, Hopkins, Jones, were able to be in events less risky but more lucrative (Calzaghe-Lacy, Hopkins-Tito). It's just how it is, and when you factor in Calzaghe fighting about 95% of his career at home as well.

[observer1]

observer makes me giggle

Is Calzaghe the legend people make him out to be? Absolutely not, but neither are the likes of Hopkins, Jones or Mayweather.

Hopkins spent 10 years fighting in arguarbly the worst division in boxing with his biggest wins coming against welterweights and he the only time he put it on the line was against Tarver when he went up to light heavy(but lets face it, Tarver was never really that good was he?)

Jones beat some absolute garbage in his career, other than Toney and a green Hopkins who did he beat?(McCallum doesn't count because he was 100 years old) Ricky Frazier? Come on, that guy was worse than Pudwill

Mayweather? Well if you want an engineered career then look no further than Floyd. Biggest win on his slate was over an old Oscar who had fought less than 6 rounds in nearly 3 years, yup, really outstanding that isn't it? One big win and then all of a sudden he's King Shit Of The Caca Tribe and then he beats the overmatched Hatton, calls himself the greatest of all-time and then quits without fighting his closest challengers.

I'd love to be in Calzaghes shoes and if somebody came up to me and called me a fraud then my reply would be "yeah but I'm a rich one"

Anyway back to Warren whinging about loyalty, as another poster said - There are no friends, no loyalty when it comes to business - and Frank should know this.

lol... Middleweight division is the worst in boxing?

I really should have stopped reading then, but i needed a laugh so i continued.

Fact is, RJJ and Hopkins beat everyone there was to beat, in MORE than one division

Calzaghe didn't, spent a decade in SMW, the Worst Division in Boxing, with todays HW division a close contendor. Not only that, he only unified it after 10 long years, and then ran. What was stoppig him facing other opponents? Oh i forgot, it was his "Fear of Flying" right?

End of discussion

[banjo]

lol... Middleweight division is the worst in boxing?

It was one of the worst during Hopkins reign not of all time obviously, he spent years bottom feeding before he tried to unify.

Whenever I read the word "legend" associated with those 4 fighters mentioned a little part of me dies.

[DG.]

lol... Middleweight division is the worst in boxing?

It was one of the worst during Hopkins reign not of all time obviously, he spent years bottom feeding before he tried to unify.

Whenever I read the word "legend" associated with those 4 fighters mentioned a little part of me dies.

I doubt anyone can dispute that until recently Hopkins had fought weak opposition.

His best wins on paper are against Welters De La Hoya ( Anna Kournikove Chicken Tikka) and Felix 'loaded hands - pone dimensional'Trinidad.

Tarver always was bollocks and Winky was never a SuperMiddle/light heavy.

Pavlik is a good win, but Pavlik is basic.

Tell de man dem, Banjo!