Classic American West Coast Boxing

scartissue
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by scartissue »

Rick Farris wrote:A quick scan of Hernandez' career gleans some amazing results. He knocked out world champ Davey Moore (breaking his jaw), Paolo Rosi (not on cuts, laying him out 3 times in the 1st round), Bunny Grant (stopped only twice in his career, by Clyde Gray at the end of his career and in 2 rounds by hernandez), Teo Cruz (only stopped twice, on cuts in 11 rounds to mando Ramos and in 3 rounds I believe by Hernandez), Kenny Lane, Alfredo Urbina and Joe Brown. Also, in losing efforts he had Jose Napoles, Eddie Perkins and Nicolino Loche on the canvas. This dude wielded some serious power.

Scartissue
____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Scar . . . I forget the publication and the exact words, however, in an article published in a top boxing magazine, during the great Roberto Duran's lightweight title reign, Duran expressed the highest respect for the punching power and skill of Carlos Hernandez. Duran never showed respect for any fighter, not in those days.

I'm curious about your thoughts on Carlos Hernandez being on this years WBHOF ballot? A bit over due, I'd say.

-Rick
Rick, I would say that would be an outstanding nomination. Overdue is right. Hernandez fought in an incredible era and let me give you an example what the lightweights were like. Carlos Ortiz, Ismael Laguna, Flash Elorde, Paolo Rosi, Len Matthews, Carlos Hernandez, Kenny Lane, Bunny Grant, Doug Vaillant, Alfredo Urbina, Dave Charnley and Paul Armstead. And get this, they were all fighting each other. What a great concept. Hernandez was a tough fighter from a tough era in boxing.

Scartissue
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Rick Farris »

scartissue wrote:
Rick Farris wrote:A quick scan of Hernandez' career gleans some amazing results. He knocked out world champ Davey Moore (breaking his jaw), Paolo Rosi (not on cuts, laying him out 3 times in the 1st round), Bunny Grant (stopped only twice in his career, by Clyde Gray at the end of his career and in 2 rounds by hernandez), Teo Cruz (only stopped twice, on cuts in 11 rounds to mando Ramos and in 3 rounds I believe by Hernandez), Kenny Lane, Alfredo Urbina and Joe Brown. Also, in losing efforts he had Jose Napoles, Eddie Perkins and Nicolino Loche on the canvas. This dude wielded some serious power.

Scartissue
____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Scar . . . I forget the publication and the exact words, however, in an article published in a top boxing magazine, during the great Roberto Duran's lightweight title reign, Duran expressed the highest respect for the punching power and skill of Carlos Hernandez. Duran never showed respect for any fighter, not in those days.

I'm curious about your thoughts on Carlos Hernandez being on this years WBHOF ballot? A bit over due, I'd say.

-Rick
Rick, I would say that would be an outstanding nomination. Overdue is right. Hernandez fought in an incredible era and let me give you an example what the lightweights were like. Carlos Ortiz, Ismael Laguna, Flash Elorde, Paolo Rosi, Len Matthews, Carlos Hernandez, Kenny Lane, Bunny Grant, Doug Vaillant, Alfredo Urbina, Dave Charnley and Paul Armstead. And get this, they were all fighting each other. What a great concept. Hernandez was a tough fighter from a tough era in boxing.

Scartissue

Scar . . . In addition to the greats that Hernandez fought and beat, add a forgotten Cuban, Angel Robinson Garcia. Hernandez whipped him three times. I'm very familiar with Hernandez. Today, there are a number of boxers in the WBHOF who haven't a hint of the resume Carlos Hernandez brings.

-Rick Farris
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by El Gato »

Scar...

You asked me if there was ever any mention of a fight between me and Alfredo "Canelo" Urbina. Yes, there was----However:

In the middle of 1962 I was at the gym in Guadalajara and my manager, Angel Casillas asked me who I would like to fight next---"Canelo" Urbina or "Raton" Macias. Before I had a chance to think about it, one of the fighters overheard the question and came running over to me to tell me not to fight Urbina. He told me that he was a brutal fighter. This fighter had sparred with him one time and Urbina had put him on the canvas. He said it would be better to fight with Macias, a much easier fight.

However, I did not want to fight either of them at that time. Only because there was a featherweight fighter at the same gym that was always putting me down, telling me that he was my daddy and that he could beat me anytime. This guy was 30 years old and I was only 16. So I told my manager I would rather fight this guy. I knew I could beat him and I wanted to shut him up. The fighter's name was Alfredo Sanchez and he was sometimes a lightweight and sometimes would fight as a featherweight and come down to 126 lbs. So a fight was arranged for August 3 of 1962. I weighed in at 118 lbs. I beat him by unanimous decision after 10 rounds, but I had the pleasure of putting him on the canvas two times. He ended up apologizing to me and was very respectful to me from then on.

After this fight, my manager was trying to match me up with "Raton" Macias but it never happened. "Baby" Lopez from Mexico City wanted to fight me so I fought him instead. In the first fight with Lopez on August 23, I knocked him out in the 8th round. He was not fully convinced that I could beat him and asked for rematch. So nine days later on Sept.1, we were in the ring again trading punches. But this fight really conviced him. I knocked him out in one minute of the first round.

That was my last fight in my hometown of Guadalajara and I left for good and came to the United States for the rest of my boxing career.

El Gato
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Randyman »

Image

I just saw this movie today for the first time. The movie is intended for a Korean audience but with subtitles it comes across fairly well, though I do think a few things are lost in the translation.

The movie follows the life of Duk Koo Kim (Kim Deuk-Gu) and the events leading up to his fight with and his death at the hands of Lightweght Champion Ray "Boom Boom" Mancini. I don't know if this movie is typical of the quality of movies being produced in Korea but it was a better movie than I had anticipated.

The movie gives an insight into the minds of Korean boxers and training, as well as a peek at Korean culture. It gives a fairly honest view of Kim's life, warts and all, including his relationship with his coach, his fiancee and his team mates.

This movie is poignant reminder that despite the gloves and rules that are designed to protect a boxer. The threat of death is always hovering over a boxing match. The fight between Mancini and Kim was directly responsible for championship rounds being changed from 15 rounds to 12 rounds.

The movie is directed by Kwak Kyong -Taek and stars Yu Oh Seong as Kim. Worth a watch, even if you're not a boxing fan.

Randy :TU:
Last edited by Randyman on 15 Feb 2009, 22:59, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Randyman »

Rick Farris wrote:"Classic American West Coast Boxing" Year-1 on Disc . . .

Our Friend John Bardelli is doing the regulars on this thread a big favor by putting our first year on a disc. John will send me several copies which I will then forward on to: Frank, Roger, Brian, Dan, Bennie, Randy, Tom, Bruce & Rob. The first year will be saved on disc, no chance of losing now. Maybe next year we can update it with a "second year" version.

It will take John a couple of weeks to finish, he's attempting to get the entire year on one disc. As soon as I have them, I will contact everybody for mailing addresses, etc.

Thank you, John!

-Rick Farris
Thanks John and Rick, these pages are far too valuable to risk losing. Much appreciated!!

Randy :TU: :box:
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Randyman »

Rick Farris wrote:Where's Randy?
Happy Birthday to our thread.
Where's "Indian Red" Lopez? I have a feeling he's doing OK.
Thanks for kicking it off, Pug.
I value my friendships here, you guys are the best.

-Rick
Happy Birthday to Classic American West Coast Boxing and Kudos to Brian for getting the ball rolling!

I agree with you Rick, you guys are the best!!

Randy :TU:
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Randyman »

:box:
kikibalt wrote:One Year Anniversary

In honor of the thread's one year anniversary, I want to honor the two guys that started this thread, that been Pug and Ernie "Red" Lopez, by posting these pictures again


Image
Ernie "Red" Lopez and Danny "Little Red" Lopez

Image
Ernie "Red" Lopez, Howie Steindler and Danny "Little Red" Lopez

Image
Ernie "Red" Lopez and Hedgemon Lewis

Happy Birthday to you Classic American West Coast thread
Great, great photos Frank. They really cut to the core of what this thread is all about. Thanks :TU:
ans again Happy Birthday to our great thread. I do believe the boxing world is slowly but surely taking notice of our love of the greatest sport.

Randy
Last edited by Randyman on 15 Feb 2009, 23:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Rick Farris »

Carlos Hernandez will turn 70 next month.

-Rick
Last edited by Rick Farris on 15 Feb 2009, 23:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Randyman »

kikibalt wrote:Got some old family picture I want to share with you guys

Image
Thats me on the left with my late uncle Max, we are at the
Long Beach Pike jail. some time in the early 1950's
Orale Frank, cool threads!! :TU:
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Rick Farris »

Classic L.A. Brother Acts (1960's-70's). . .

Everybody knows about Frankie Jr. & Tony Baltazar, but aside from an amateur career, few know about Bobby because he cut his unbeaten pro boxing career short. After amassing an impressive KO record, Bobby chose a career beyond the ropes.

Same is true with the Lopez brothers. We all know about Ernie & Danny, but what about their older brother, Leonard? Leonard campaigned around L.A. in the mid 60's, and I used to see him in the gym daily. He came up in the same group as Ruben Navarro, Rodolfo Gonzalez, Mando Ramos, etc. However, unlike his two younger brothers, Lenny had a pretty average career. In his last bout, broadcast on TV from the Olympic, Leonard Lopez suffered a freak injury. He reeled back after a combination, lost his footing and as he tried to get his balance, slipped to the floor, breaking his ankle.

That was the end of his career. He retired and would occasionally work for one of his old gym buddies, lightweight Billy Coleman (who fought Mando Ramos and Navarro, himself). I used to live in Monterey Park, directly across the street from Billy Coleman, who had become an building contractor and had a successful business. Billy would put both Leonard and Ernie to work as laborers after they retired from boxing.

The Quarry Brothers . . . Oldest Brother Jimmy didn't have the talent, and neither did the youngest, Bobby. Jerry & Mike would get all the glory. Jimmy died not too long ago, and Bobby today suffers from the same condition that cost his older brothers their lives.

The Sandovals . . . Youngest brother Richie was the only Sandoval to win a world title, but middle bro Albert "Super Fly" would come close, gaining top ten bantamweight ranking during an exciting career. However, oldest brother Joey (whom I beat by decsion in my last amateur bout) would go unheard of. If he ever turned pro, I don't know.


-Rick Farris
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Randyman »

Rick Farris wrote:Classic L.A. Brother Acts (1960's-70's). . .

Everybody knows about Frankie Jr. & Tony Baltazar, but aside from an amateur career, few know about Bobby because he cut his unbeaten pro boxing career short. After amassing an impressive KO record, Bobby chose a career beyond the ropes.

Same is true with the Lopez brothers. We all know about Ernie & Danny, but what about their older brother, Leonard? Leonard campaigned around L.A. in the mid 60's, and I used to see him in the gym daily. He came up in the same group as Ruben Navarro, Rodolfo Gonzalez, Mando Ramos, etc. However, unlike his two younger brothers, Lenny had a pretty average career. In his last bout, broadcast on TV from the Olympic, Leonard Lopez suffered a freak injury. He reeled back after a combination, lost his footing and as he tried to get his balance, slipped to the floor, breaking his ankle.

That was the end of his career. He retired and would occasionally work for one of his old gym buddies, lightweight Billy Coleman (who fought Mando Ramos and Navarro, himself). I used to live in Monterey Park, directly across the street from Billy Coleman, who had become an building contractor and had a successful business. Billy would put both Leonard and Ernie to work as laborers after they retired from boxing.

The Quarry Brothers . . . Oldest Brother Jimmy didn't have the talent, and neither did the youngest, Bobby. Jerry & Mike would get all the glory. Jimmy died not too long ago, and Bobby today suffers from the same condition that cost his older brothers their lives.

The Sandovals . . . Youngest brother Richie was the only Sandoval to win a world title, but middle bro Albert "Super Fly" would come close, gaining top ten bantamweight ranking during an exciting career. However, oldest brother Joey (whom I beat by decsion in my last amateur bout) would go unheard of. If he ever turned pro, I don't know.


-Rick Farris
Great writing Rick, you have been on a roll with your writing about local boxing history!! Mind if I post this on my site?

Randy :bow:
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Rick Farris »

dagosd2000 wrote:
Rick Farris wrote:
dagosd2000 wrote:Image

A great and unusual artist,Frida Kahlo
Roger . . . Last night, I was showing Monica one of your paintings.
She said, "Tell Roger my favorite artist is Frida". I forgot to mention it.
Monica has several things with Frida's image on it. Now you post this.
It's almost telepathic.

-Rick
Image

It may be of interest that Frida, as a young girl, participated in boxing.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Rick Farris »

Randyman wrote:
Rick Farris wrote:Classic L.A. Brother Acts (1960's-70's). . .

Everybody knows about Frankie Jr. & Tony Baltazar, but aside from an amateur career, few know about Bobby because he cut his unbeaten pro boxing career short. After amassing an impressive KO record, Bobby chose a career beyond the ropes.

Same is true with the Lopez brothers. We all know about Ernie & Danny, but what about their older brother, Leonard? Leonard campaigned around L.A. in the mid 60's, and I used to see him in the gym daily. He came up in the same group as Ruben Navarro, Rodolfo Gonzalez, Mando Ramos, etc. However, unlike his two younger brothers, Lenny had a pretty average career. In his last bout, broadcast on TV from the Olympic, Leonard Lopez suffered a freak injury. He reeled back after a combination, lost his footing and as he tried to get his balance, slipped to the floor, breaking his ankle.

That was the end of his career. He retired and would occasionally work for one of his old gym buddies, lightweight Billy Coleman (who fought Mando Ramos and Navarro, himself). I used to live in Monterey Park, directly across the street from Billy Coleman, who had become an building contractor and had a successful business. Billy would put both Leonard and Ernie to work as laborers after they retired from boxing.

The Quarry Brothers . . . Oldest Brother Jimmy didn't have the talent, and neither did the youngest, Bobby. Jerry & Mike would get all the glory. Jimmy died not too long ago, and Bobby today suffers from the same condition that cost his older brothers their lives.

The Sandovals . . . Youngest brother Richie was the only Sandoval to win a world title, but middle bro Albert "Super Fly" would come close, gaining top ten bantamweight ranking during an exciting career. However, oldest brother Joey (whom I beat by decsion in my last amateur bout) would go unheard of. If he ever turned pro, I don't know.


-Rick Farris
Great writing Rick, you have been on a roll with your writing about local boxing history!! Mind if I post this on my site?

Randy :bow:
I would be honored.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by kikibalt »

Carlos Palomino, Armando Muniz took boxing rivalry to higher degree

Image
Jay L. Clendenin / Los Angeles Times
Carlos Palomino, left, and Armando Muniz joke around in the ring at the Bell Gardens Boxing Club.
Palomino and Muniz became the first -- and only -- fighters to battle for a world title while being college graduates.

Jerry Crowe
February 16, 2009

As young fighters trying to make their way in a brutal, demanding discipline, Carlos Palomino and Armando Muniz often were given the same advice:

If you're serious about boxing, forget about college. And if you're serious about college, forget about boxing.

Neither paid it any mind.

"It was a dream of mine as a kid to be a boxer," Muniz says, "but I also knew that I was going to go to school."

Palomino stayed in school, he says, "because I figured that even if I got lucky and won a world title, athletic careers are pretty short and I'd still have a whole life ahead of me."

So, even while they continued trading punches, the Southern California-bred fighters never stopped hitting the books.

And when they twice met for the World Boxing Council welterweight championship in the 1970s, they made history: never before had college graduates fought for a world title.

Nor have they since, boxing historians believe.

As longtime boxing writer Bert Sugar notes, "You're not getting your recruits for boxing from the graduating line at Harvard."

That's why, before the first Palomino-Muniz fight, at the Olympic Auditorium on Jan. 21, 1977, Times columnist Jim Murray called the matchup "boxing's finest intellectual hour since George Bernard Shaw wrote to Gene Tunney" and noted with tongue in cheek, "If the fight is close, maybe they can decide it by debate."

Palomino, the champion, had only recently earned a degree in recreation administration from Long Beach State.

Muniz, taking his third title shot, had graduated from Cal State Los Angeles, where he majored in Spanish and minored in math, and was working toward a graduate degree in administration.

Neither, however, was a bookworm.

Their first fight, won dramatically by Palomino when he stopped the challenger late in the 15th round, is considered one of the most memorable bouts of 1977.

After 14 rounds, it was even.

In the 15th, "I went out and just threw everything I had for 2 1/2 minutes," says Palomino, who also won the rematch -- by unanimous decision -- in May 1978. "Finally, he went down."

Muniz wept when the bout was stopped, believing he'd squandered his last title shot, and rues its ending still.

"I was tired, but I was totally aware," he says. "I knew Carlos was on top of me and I knew he was trying to knock me down, but I was waiting for one more punch myself. I knew if I threw one more punch straight at him, he was going to go down."

He never got the chance and less than two years later, after tendinitis in his left arm forced him to quit against Sugar Ray Leonard, Muniz retired with a record of 44-14-1.

Later, after his plan to buy a beer distributorship fell through and he discovered he wasn't cut out for selling real estate or insurance, he used his degree and turned to teaching.

Last June, the former boxer retired after 21 years of teaching Spanish and math at Riverside Rubidoux High.

"I never thought I'd be a teacher," says Muniz, who helps run a youth boxing program in Riverside. "I thought, teachers are paid too little. I'll win the world title and go from there."

Like Palomino, Muniz was born in Mexico. Both are from big families -- Palomino was the third of 11 children, Muniz the second of eight -- and both fought in the Army at Ft. Bragg, N.C., before going to college. Muniz boxed for the U.S. in the 1968 Olympics. Both fighters say their fathers' hard-knock lives as laborers motivated their pursuit of higher education.

Today, both are grandfathers.

Muniz is 62, Palomino 59.

"I don't think going to school affected my fighting at all," says Muniz, echoing his longtime friend and former rival. "All I needed to be a fighter was time in the morning to jog, time in the afternoon to go to the gym and the dedication to take care of myself."

He laughs, noting, "I don't know how in the world I did it."

Says Palomino, "A lot of people had doubts. My manager told me, 'You're not going to be able to do it.' I said, 'Just give me a year to see where we're at.' In a year, I was 8-0 and carrying 18 units a semester. He said, 'OK, you're doing it,' but I didn't have much of a life. I trained and went to school."

Unlike Muniz, Palomino never had to rely on his degree to find work. He successfully defended his title seven times before losing a split decision to Wilfred Benitez in 1979, then launched a career as an actor and pitchman. Including a brief comeback in the late 1990s, he ended his career with a 31-4-3 record.

These days, Palomino owns a credit-card processing company and works with at-risk teens, pushing education.

It's a subject he and Muniz know well.

"I'm proud to say that Carlos and I were in that fight," says Muniz, who supplements his pension income as a bail bondsman. "I think the Latino community took it as, 'Wow, two of our guys are doing this.' I just wish it would have translated into more kids going into college and getting out of gangs."

Who's to say it didn't?

[email protected]
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by kikibalt »

Randyman wrote:
kikibalt wrote:Got some old family picture I want to share with you guys

Image
Thats me on the left with my late uncle Max, we are at the
Long Beach Pike jail. some time in the early 1950's
Orale Frank, cool threads!! :TU:
Orale! Randy....great to see you back.... :TU:
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by kikibalt »

Image
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by kikibalt »

Image
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by scartissue »

El Gato wrote:Scar...

You asked me if there was ever any mention of a fight between me and Alfredo "Canelo" Urbina. Yes, there was----However:

In the middle of 1962 I was at the gym in Guadalajara and my manager, Angel Casillas asked me who I would like to fight next---"Canelo" Urbina or "Raton" Macias. Before I had a chance to think about it, one of the fighters overheard the question and came running over to me to tell me not to fight Urbina. He told me that he was a brutal fighter. This fighter had sparred with him one time and Urbina had put him on the canvas. He said it would be better to fight with Macias, a much easier fight.

However, I did not want to fight either of them at that time. Only because there was a featherweight fighter at the same gym that was always putting me down, telling me that he was my daddy and that he could beat me anytime. This guy was 30 years old and I was only 16. So I told my manager I would rather fight this guy. I knew I could beat him and I wanted to shut him up. The fighter's name was Alfredo Sanchez and he was sometimes a lightweight and sometimes would fight as a featherweight and come down to 126 lbs. So a fight was arranged for August 3 of 1962. I weighed in at 118 lbs. I beat him by unanimous decision after 10 rounds, but I had the pleasure of putting him on the canvas two times. He ended up apologizing to me and was very respectful to me from then on.

After this fight, my manager was trying to match me up with "Raton" Macias but it never happened. "Baby" Lopez from Mexico City wanted to fight me so I fought him instead. In the first fight with Lopez on August 23, I knocked him out in the 8th round. He was not fully convinced that I could beat him and asked for rematch. So nine days later on Sept.1, we were in the ring again trading punches. But this fight really conviced him. I knocked him out in one minute of the first round.

That was my last fight in my hometown of Guadalajara and I left for good and came to the United States for the rest of my boxing career.

El Gato
Rodolfo, that is a great story. Interesting side story to the Alfredo Sanchez fight. Six months after your win over him he beat Manuel Ochoa over 10 rounds and Ochoa had been in the ring with everyone. So the Sanchez fight was a helluva scalp for a 16 year old. What can you tell us about your fight with Diablito Campos? I think he had been around since '51 I believe.

Scartissue
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Randyman »

kikibalt wrote:Carlos Palomino, Armando Muniz took boxing rivalry to higher degree

Image
Jay L. Clendenin / Los Angeles Times
Carlos Palomino, left, and Armando Muniz joke around in the ring at the Bell Gardens Boxing Club.
Palomino and Muniz became the first -- and only -- fighters to battle for a world title while being college graduates.

Jerry Crowe
February 16, 2009

As young fighters trying to make their way in a brutal, demanding discipline, Carlos Palomino and Armando Muniz often were given the same advice:

If you're serious about boxing, forget about college. And if you're serious about college, forget about boxing.

Neither paid it any mind.

"It was a dream of mine as a kid to be a boxer," Muniz says, "but I also knew that I was going to go to school."

Palomino stayed in school, he says, "because I figured that even if I got lucky and won a world title, athletic careers are pretty short and I'd still have a whole life ahead of me."

So, even while they continued trading punches, the Southern California-bred fighters never stopped hitting the books.

And when they twice met for the World Boxing Council welterweight championship in the 1970s, they made history: never before had college graduates fought for a world title.

Nor have they since, boxing historians believe.

As longtime boxing writer Bert Sugar notes, "You're not getting your recruits for boxing from the graduating line at Harvard."

That's why, before the first Palomino-Muniz fight, at the Olympic Auditorium on Jan. 21, 1977, Times columnist Jim Murray called the matchup "boxing's finest intellectual hour since George Bernard Shaw wrote to Gene Tunney" and noted with tongue in cheek, "If the fight is close, maybe they can decide it by debate."

Palomino, the champion, had only recently earned a degree in recreation administration from Long Beach State.

Muniz, taking his third title shot, had graduated from Cal State Los Angeles, where he majored in Spanish and minored in math, and was working toward a graduate degree in administration.

Neither, however, was a bookworm.

Their first fight, won dramatically by Palomino when he stopped the challenger late in the 15th round, is considered one of the most memorable bouts of 1977.

After 14 rounds, it was even.

In the 15th, "I went out and just threw everything I had for 2 1/2 minutes," says Palomino, who also won the rematch -- by unanimous decision -- in May 1978. "Finally, he went down."

Muniz wept when the bout was stopped, believing he'd squandered his last title shot, and rues its ending still.

"I was tired, but I was totally aware," he says. "I knew Carlos was on top of me and I knew he was trying to knock me down, but I was waiting for one more punch myself. I knew if I threw one more punch straight at him, he was going to go down."

He never got the chance and less than two years later, after tendinitis in his left arm forced him to quit against Sugar Ray Leonard, Muniz retired with a record of 44-14-1.

Later, after his plan to buy a beer distributorship fell through and he discovered he wasn't cut out for selling real estate or insurance, he used his degree and turned to teaching.

Last June, the former boxer retired after 21 years of teaching Spanish and math at Riverside Rubidoux High.

"I never thought I'd be a teacher," says Muniz, who helps run a youth boxing program in Riverside. "I thought, teachers are paid too little. I'll win the world title and go from there."

Like Palomino, Muniz was born in Mexico. Both are from big families -- Palomino was the third of 11 children, Muniz the second of eight -- and both fought in the Army at Ft. Bragg, N.C., before going to college. Muniz boxed for the U.S. in the 1968 Olympics. Both fighters say their fathers' hard-knock lives as laborers motivated their pursuit of higher education.

Today, both are grandfathers.

Muniz is 62, Palomino 59.

"I don't think going to school affected my fighting at all," says Muniz, echoing his longtime friend and former rival. "All I needed to be a fighter was time in the morning to jog, time in the afternoon to go to the gym and the dedication to take care of myself."

He laughs, noting, "I don't know how in the world I did it."

Says Palomino, "A lot of people had doubts. My manager told me, 'You're not going to be able to do it.' I said, 'Just give me a year to see where we're at.' In a year, I was 8-0 and carrying 18 units a semester. He said, 'OK, you're doing it,' but I didn't have much of a life. I trained and went to school."

Unlike Muniz, Palomino never had to rely on his degree to find work. He successfully defended his title seven times before losing a split decision to Wilfred Benitez in 1979, then launched a career as an actor and pitchman. Including a brief comeback in the late 1990s, he ended his career with a 31-4-3 record.

These days, Palomino owns a credit-card processing company and works with at-risk teens, pushing education.

It's a subject he and Muniz know well.

"I'm proud to say that Carlos and I were in that fight," says Muniz, who supplements his pension income as a bail bondsman. "I think the Latino community took it as, 'Wow, two of our guys are doing this.' I just wish it would have translated into more kids going into college and getting out of gangs."

Who's to say it didn't?

[email protected]
Two great class act fighters. They gave us lots of thrills in the ring, each in their own way, but together in the ring, they brought out the best in each other. Oh how I wish they were fighting today. Warriors.

Regarding the last sentence in the article. I was very aware of the sinificance of their fight. The first and only time two college grads fought in the ring together. As a Chicano I took great pride in that. Still do. They may never really know how many lives they touched or who but I'm sure there are many. For whatever reasons, Chicanos (Mexican Americans) have the highest drop out rate in the nation, that being said, since the mid 1970's, Chicanos have been entering College and higher education in unprecedented numbers. I would like to think that Carlos and Mando did their part to make that happen. Kudos to two great fighters :TU:

Randy :box:
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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Image

Max Schmeling
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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Its raining.... :bow:
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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Randyman wrote:
kikibalt wrote:Carlos Palomino, Armando Muniz took boxing rivalry to higher degree

Image
Jay L. Clendenin / Los Angeles Times
Carlos Palomino, left, and Armando Muniz joke around in the ring at the Bell Gardens Boxing Club.
Palomino and Muniz became the first -- and only -- fighters to battle for a world title while being college graduates.

Jerry Crowe
February 16, 2009

As young fighters trying to make their way in a brutal, demanding discipline, Carlos Palomino and Armando Muniz often were given the same advice:

If you're serious about boxing, forget about college. And if you're serious about college, forget about boxing.

Neither paid it any mind.

"It was a dream of mine as a kid to be a boxer," Muniz says, "but I also knew that I was going to go to school."

Palomino stayed in school, he says, "because I figured that even if I got lucky and won a world title, athletic careers are pretty short and I'd still have a whole life ahead of me."

So, even while they continued trading punches, the Southern California-bred fighters never stopped hitting the books.

And when they twice met for the World Boxing Council welterweight championship in the 1970s, they made history: never before had college graduates fought for a world title.

Nor have they since, boxing historians believe.

As longtime boxing writer Bert Sugar notes, "You're not getting your recruits for boxing from the graduating line at Harvard."

That's why, before the first Palomino-Muniz fight, at the Olympic Auditorium on Jan. 21, 1977, Times columnist Jim Murray called the matchup "boxing's finest intellectual hour since George Bernard Shaw wrote to Gene Tunney" and noted with tongue in cheek, "If the fight is close, maybe they can decide it by debate."

Palomino, the champion, had only recently earned a degree in recreation administration from Long Beach State.

Muniz, taking his third title shot, had graduated from Cal State Los Angeles, where he majored in Spanish and minored in math, and was working toward a graduate degree in administration.

Neither, however, was a bookworm.

Their first fight, won dramatically by Palomino when he stopped the challenger late in the 15th round, is considered one of the most memorable bouts of 1977.

After 14 rounds, it was even.

In the 15th, "I went out and just threw everything I had for 2 1/2 minutes," says Palomino, who also won the rematch -- by unanimous decision -- in May 1978. "Finally, he went down."

Muniz wept when the bout was stopped, believing he'd squandered his last title shot, and rues its ending still.

"I was tired, but I was totally aware," he says. "I knew Carlos was on top of me and I knew he was trying to knock me down, but I was waiting for one more punch myself. I knew if I threw one more punch straight at him, he was going to go down."

He never got the chance and less than two years later, after tendinitis in his left arm forced him to quit against Sugar Ray Leonard, Muniz retired with a record of 44-14-1.

Later, after his plan to buy a beer distributorship fell through and he discovered he wasn't cut out for selling real estate or insurance, he used his degree and turned to teaching.

Last June, the former boxer retired after 21 years of teaching Spanish and math at Riverside Rubidoux High.

"I never thought I'd be a teacher," says Muniz, who helps run a youth boxing program in Riverside. "I thought, teachers are paid too little. I'll win the world title and go from there."

Like Palomino, Muniz was born in Mexico. Both are from big families -- Palomino was the third of 11 children, Muniz the second of eight -- and both fought in the Army at Ft. Bragg, N.C., before going to college. Muniz boxed for the U.S. in the 1968 Olympics. Both fighters say their fathers' hard-knock lives as laborers motivated their pursuit of higher education.

Today, both are grandfathers.

Muniz is 62, Palomino 59.

"I don't think going to school affected my fighting at all," says Muniz, echoing his longtime friend and former rival. "All I needed to be a fighter was time in the morning to jog, time in the afternoon to go to the gym and the dedication to take care of myself."

He laughs, noting, "I don't know how in the world I did it."

Says Palomino, "A lot of people had doubts. My manager told me, 'You're not going to be able to do it.' I said, 'Just give me a year to see where we're at.' In a year, I was 8-0 and carrying 18 units a semester. He said, 'OK, you're doing it,' but I didn't have much of a life. I trained and went to school."

Unlike Muniz, Palomino never had to rely on his degree to find work. He successfully defended his title seven times before losing a split decision to Wilfred Benitez in 1979, then launched a career as an actor and pitchman. Including a brief comeback in the late 1990s, he ended his career with a 31-4-3 record.

These days, Palomino owns a credit-card processing company and works with at-risk teens, pushing education.

It's a subject he and Muniz know well.

"I'm proud to say that Carlos and I were in that fight," says Muniz, who supplements his pension income as a bail bondsman. "I think the Latino community took it as, 'Wow, two of our guys are doing this.' I just wish it would have translated into more kids going into college and getting out of gangs."

Who's to say it didn't?

[email protected]
Two great class act fighters. They gave us lots of thrills in the ring, each in their own way, but together in the ring, they brought out the best in each other. Oh how I wish they were fighting today. Warriors.

Regarding the last sentence in the article. I was very aware of the sinificance of their fight. The first and only time two college grads fought in the ring together. As a Chicano I took great pride in that. Still do. They may never really know how many lives they touched or who but I'm sure there are many. For whatever reasons, Chicanos (Mexican Americans) have the highest drop out rate in the nation, that being said, since the mid 1970's, Chicanos have been entering College and higher education in unprecedented numbers. I would like to think that Carlos and Mando did their part to make that happen. Kudos to two great fighters :TU:

Randy :box:
The Man . . .

Both guys are class acts. I've known Armando since I was in the Junior Gloves and today we are lucky to have him as President of the WBHOF. Armando is an "idea" man. He is willing to listen to and act upon anything that will benefit boxers with relation to the Hall of Fame.. It says a lot for a person to dedicate themselves and follow thru with the pursuit of education, just as it does to work themselves into position to challenge for a world title. However, the thing that impresses me most about Armando Muniz is his fairness, willingness to listen to everybody's ideas, and in the end make a strong, solid decision. Some people are all about themselves, Muniz is about everybody. His wife of more than forty years, Yolanda, is always at his side and currently is our new WBHOF secretary.

While living in Arizona a few years ago, I reconnected with my past in boxing. I was encouraged on a forum very much like this to write about the boxers I knew, those we discuss today. One of the first stories I wrote for the Cyber Boxing Zone was on Armando Muniz. He was one of those special people you never forget. He certainly made a big impression on me.

Without question, Armando Muniz is "The Man".

-Rick Farris
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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kikibalt wrote:Its raining.... :bow:
It was pouring here all night.
It's kind of nice, as long as I don't have to work in it.


-Rick
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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CONVERSATION UNWANTED

My father knew this big shot Hollywood producer who he had known in Chicago. His name was Mark Lipsky. How he gat into producing movies is anyone's guess,but that's not the point of the story.

My father would meet him once in a while either when he came down to San Diego or when my father would go to Los Angeles. Lipsky was all business.I know he produced those 48 Hour movies with Eddie Murphy. I remember one time Lipsky was putting on something at the Carlsbad Inn north of San Diego. Lipsky invited my dad for lunch and he took me along.

There was a fashion show outside on the patio overlooking the ocean. I remember Lipsky's wife was there. I think she must have had some sort of nervous breakdown because she was talking to herself and complaining to her husband that no one was eating anything. She was a little embarrasing,but her husband didn't seem annoyed with her. She must have been like that for a while.

I sat with my father and Lipsky at his table. Lipsky's wife was off to the side talking to herself. My dad and Lipsky were taliking about the old days in Chicago. Lipsky brought up the subject of Jack Ruby. My father knew Ruby when he was trying to rub elbows with the Outfit guys.
"He was always either around the "made" guys or hanging around fighters,"said my father.
"Mushuga,"laughed Lipsky.
"Yeh,he was nuts."
"He was friends with Barney Ross,"pointed out Lipsky.
"He wanted to be a big shot,but no one took him serious."

I was watching the fashion show while listening to their conversation. There were a lot of old ladies watching these young models wearing clothes that wouldn't have helped much with these old gals' appearances,but they were spending their huisbands money anyway. I figure their husbands were banging broads like these models on the side. So let their wives spend their dough on the fancy dresses.

"Joe,what do you make of Ruby shooting Oswald?"asked Lipsky.
"If I'd stayed in Chicago I might have been a part of that. I don't know nothin'. Besides ,nobody would talk to me about that."
"I know Jack was still talking to the Outfit then."
"Like I said Mark, I don't know and don't want to know."
"It don't add up Joe."
My father asked me if I wanted something for dessert.
"Joe ,Ruby knew Oswald."
My father was looking at Lipsky's wife. She was talking to a waiter.
"You know Mark,you're wife is right. Why don't these people eat something?"
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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Rick Farris wrote:Classic L.A. Brother Acts (1960's-70's). . .

Everybody knows about Frankie Jr. & Tony Baltazar, but aside from an amateur career, few know about Bobby because he cut his unbeaten pro boxing career short. After amassing an impressive KO record, Bobby chose a career beyond the ropes.

Same is true with the Lopez brothers. We all know about Ernie & Danny, but what about their older brother, Leonard? Leonard campaigned around L.A. in the mid 60's, and I used to see him in the gym daily. He came up in the same group as Ruben Navarro, Rodolfo Gonzalez, Mando Ramos, etc. However, unlike his two younger brothers, Lenny had a pretty average career. In his last bout, broadcast on TV from the Olympic, Leonard Lopez suffered a freak injury. He reeled back after a combination, lost his footing and as he tried to get his balance, slipped to the floor, breaking his ankle.

That was the end of his career. He retired and would occasionally work for one of his old gym buddies, lightweight Billy Coleman (who fought Mando Ramos and Navarro, himself). I used to live in Monterey Park, directly across the street from Billy Coleman, who had become an building contractor and had a successful business. Billy would put both Leonard and Ernie to work as laborers after they retired from boxing.

The Quarry Brothers . . . Oldest Brother Jimmy didn't have the talent, and neither did the youngest, Bobby. Jerry & Mike would get all the glory. Jimmy died not too long ago, and Bobby today suffers from the same condition that cost his older brothers their lives.

The Sandovals . . . Youngest brother Richie was the only Sandoval to win a world title, but middle bro Albert "Super Fly" would come close, gaining top ten bantamweight ranking during an exciting career. However, oldest brother Joey (whom I beat by decsion in my last amateur bout) would go unheard of. If he ever turned pro, I don't know.


-Rick Farris
SoCal has a long history of boxing brothers, 3 set of brothers right of the top of my head, the Campos brothers, early 1950's, Frankie Campos and Juan Luis Campos, mid-50's, Andy and Alfredo Escobar, in the 1960's and Escobar brother, Herman fought a few fights, 1940's, Carlos and Alfredo Chavez, the Chavez's fought into the early 1950's.

Its an honor to have our name mentioned with some of the local boxing stars of years gone by, my boys and I are very humble by it. Thanks Rick
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