David Haye in need of a Plan B

Asterix
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David Haye in need of a Plan B

Post by Asterix »

David Haye in need of a Plan B

David Haye's arrival on the heavyweight scene did seem a bit too good to be true and so it has proved as the Londoner's hopes of a summer shot at the world heavyweight title seem to have been smothered at birth. First he was to face Vitali Klitschko, the WBC heavyweight champion, pictured right, then it was Wladimir, the WBO and IBF champion, left, now Haye looks like he will be getting no one just now.

The negotiations had just seemed a bit too easy, everyone had just seemed a bit too nice, but Bernd Boente, the brothers' manager, chose the weekend to lay down the law about just who was the boss in these talks, when speaking to top US columnist Dan Rafael of espn.com.

Boente said that plans to stage the bout at Stamford Bridge on June 20 were off, and if it wasn't going to be there, they just were not that interested. "They backed out of the stadium because of the economy and now we have to negotiate everything new," Boente said. "That [stadium] was a huge portion of the deal. Otherwise, Haye is not bringing much to the table.

"We are absolutely willing to do the fight, but we have to start all over again to bring them down from their high horse. Adam is very inexperienced. He may be a good coach, but he's definitely not a good manager. If he's not taking this chance, do you know how long it will be before Haye is in a mandatory position? It will take a long time. This is a unique chance for Haye and they are being so greedy. If Haye had a name like Lennox Lewis or Evander Holyfield in their best days, we would have additional money from international sales. But that is not the case."

A press statement on Monday saying that Haye was willing to go to Germany to face Wladimir was just a sign that it was all over, despite reports in some rival newspapers that claimed the deal was virtually done (perhaps the same that claimed that Joe Calzaghe was planning a summer farewell fight in Cardiff).

"David will fight Wladimir anywhere they choose, and give them the two rematch options they have requested," Booth said. "In regards to the rematches clause, I am baffled as to why Boente seems to have forgotten our last conversation about this. We said they could have the two rematches they wanted, which effectively means David’s next three fights could be in Germany against either Wladimir or Vitali Klitschko.

"What they’re also demanding is that if David were to win against Wladimir and then have a mandatory challenger obligation (non-Klitschko) he would have to immediately vacate the title he won from Wladimir. This would mean David could win three fights against the Klitschko brothers and still not be in a position to officially call himself heavyweight champion of the world at the end of it.

"They (the Klitschkos) would make exactly the same money in Germany as they would in England because we have dropped our figure to go to Germany. If they take a proposed fight with Chris Arreola, they will make substantially less. So people can now work this out for themselves.

"The original deal to co-promote the event would never work because of unacceptable terms. However, we're willing to sacrifice a little on our side just to get this fight made. David doesn't want to dodge Wladimir and just pick and choose his way through boring, fringe contenders. He wants to fight the best and restore some excitement to the heavyweight division. We only hope Wladimir feels the same way."

The bottom line is that Haye needs the Klitschkos more than they need him... and they know it. A family virtual monopoly of the titles goes a long way in this business. Boente's interview could merely be a negotiating tactic, but it now seems more likely that Wladimir will be facing Chris Arreola in Los Angeles in May. After that he has Alexander Povetkin to take care of. Vitali, providing he beats Juan Carlos Gomez next month, could be available in September.

Another problem Haye faces is that the Klitschkos are much bigger stars in Europe than Haye is in Britain. They might not be the most respected heavyweight champions in history, but they can sell out a huge arena in Germany any time they like. On top of that, they have a huge TV deal in Germany from RTL, have a good relationship in the US with HBO and British TV is always more likely than not going to take the bout too. There is also no other route to go, with Nikolay Valuev, the WBA champion, likely to have a rematch with Evander Holyfield and due to face former champion Ruslan Chagaev.

So what now? Certainly Haye will do best to get back into action and forget about the Klitschkos for a while. After his thrilling performance against Monte Barrett in November, it is important not to lose momentum. The original plan was for at least two bouts before a world-title challenge and if Haye goes back to the O2 Arena against a top 20 heavyweight, he will most likely get a big crowd this time. The other option just seems to play the poor cards the Klitschkos have dealt him.
http://timesonline.typepad.com/boxing/2 ... -in-n.html

Ron Lewis, the author of the blog post, is a member here. Nice article, Ron.
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Re: David Haye in need of a Plan B

Post by Coco »

I don't see how a fight with one of the Klits is out of the picture, seems more like his management team are playing hardball to gain all the advantages
Ron has never read this business very well, or maybe he will later claim that he barely wrote the article and his editor rewrote it for him!!
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Re: David Haye in need of a Plan B

Post by Asterix »

Coco wrote:I don't see how a fight with one of the Klits is out of the picture, seems more like his management team are playing hardball to gain all the advantages
Ron has never read this business very well, or maybe he will later claim that he barely wrote the article and his editor rewrote it for him!!
Of course, we don't know what's going on behind the scenes. It doesn't look good on the outside though.
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Re: David Haye in need of a Plan B

Post by whicker »

I'd say that now Haye's next fight being against a Klit looks very unlikley.

As suggested- fairly directly- in that article Haye is not a major household name as yet- it does seem logical for him to build up a bit more of a reputation with some more fights.
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Re: David Haye in need of a Plan B

Post by Coco »

Which is exactly the reason Klits managers are playing hardball, Haye doesn't generate huge money on his own, the Klits are the big attraction so they are only willing to take the fight if they get home advantage, options and most of the money
They wouldn't have started negotiations just for the fun of it.
It all depends how much Haye is willing to concede to get the shot
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Re: David Haye in need of a Plan B

Post by Gray-Fox »

I was amazed to learn that Wlad is 55 fights deep going 52-3...that's some record.

Similarly I was amazed to learn that Haye had only had 22 fights or something like that.
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Re: David Haye in need of a Plan B

Post by Twinkle Toes »

Ron has a point, the Haye camp don't appear to have a plan B and seem to have thrown all their eggs into one basket in trying to get one of the Klitschko's in the ring.
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Re: David Haye in need of a Plan B

Post by Autobarn »

Coco wrote:I don't see how a fight with one of the Klits is out of the picture, seems more like his management team are playing hardball to gain all the advantages
Ron has never read this business very well, or maybe he will later claim that he barely wrote the article and his editor rewrote it for him!!
Klits want a rematch clause for both brothers, so if haye wins he can't defend his title cos either Wlad would want revenge or Vitali would (or both). It looks like he's being messed about by them - Vitali was coming to te UK, then Wlad was, then Haye says he'll go to Germany... - and the terms seem all wrong.

Could be a blessing in disguise if it doesn't happen. Klits won't be around forever and if Haye takes learning fights he can ready himself for a much easier title.
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Re: David Haye in need of a Plan B

Post by Asterix »

Terence wrote:
Gray-Fox wrote:I was amazed to learn that Wlad is 55 fights deep going 52-3...that's some record.

Similarly I was amazed to learn that Haye had only had 22 fights or something like that.
Some padding as well. Areola is exciting, sure, but he is not very good. It will be a case of Klit pounding another fat pudding, which does sound like fun.
Yeah, when Wlad fought for his first World title his record was 34-1-0.
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Re: David Haye in need of a Plan B

Post by gobbles »

I don't understand why Haye is in such a rush. As said, have another fight
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Re: David Haye in need of a Plan B

Post by black panther »

gobbles wrote:I don't understand why Haye is in such a rush. As said, have another fight
Don't quote me on this but I vaguely remember reading an article about Haye in which he said he wants to retire by thirty. Which would explain his rush. I get the feeling Haye is not to fussed about his place in boxing history or a legacy, he just wants to make as much money as possible and then get out. Which is fair enough. I would have liked him to stay at Crusierweight for another three/four fights and really clean it out against Cunningham, Adamek, Jones and Wlodarck rather than immediately chase the big money fights at heavy but I'm not the one getting hit! :lol:
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Re: David Haye in need of a Plan B

Post by gobbles »

Klitschko-Haye talks suspended!
According to the Ukrainian language section of klitschko.com, Wladimir Klitschko has decided to stop negotiations with David Haye. He says the main problem has been a lack of professionalism on the part of Haye and his representatives. Wlad says Haye can’t decide on his demands. “If Haye continues in the same spirit, it will be two more years before he get a chance to reach a championship fight.” In the event the fight with Haye is not resurrected, Wlad plans “to face Chris Arreola or find someone else. This will be determined later.”

http://www.fightnews.com/?p=4130
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Re: David Haye in need of a Plan B

Post by hitman_hatton1 »

gutted about this.

next to hatton-pac it's the fight i'm most looking forward to. :cry:
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Re: David Haye in need of a Plan B

Post by banjo »

Wlad plans “to face Chris Arreola"

:lol:

Bet Wlad is shaking in his boots over that one :box:
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Re: David Haye in need of a Plan B

Post by hitman09 »

Haye is lucky now maybe he can get a few more heavyweight fights (against contenders, not Monte Barrett etc) before taking on the Klitschkos. He might eventually be able to compete with them but not now IMO
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Re: David Haye in need of a Plan B

Post by Spud »

Interesting!!!

In my opinion Hayemaker have played "hard ball" and have come unstuck - now the negoitiations have turned somewhat desperate in my view.

Its a shame because its my belief that David Haye would whoop Waldimir Klitschko's butt - different story with Vitali though.

Another point that very few have picked up on - and make no mistake Team Haye whilst they are thoroughly professionally orientated it is my belief the fans are not in peoples consideration here - these "supposed" fights with the Klitschko's are about Team Haye and maximising the money rather than any consideration for the fans - why else offer to fight in Germany including any rematch clauses which could be up to 3 fights and that would be at least a year and possibly longer?? - I mention this because Haye is just and only just starting to build a fan base in the UK and in my opinion still needs a couple more fights here - anyone who says anything other than Haye/Barrett was a hard sell is barking mad!!! and that alone proves there is work still to be done in ensuring the fans whether they be ardent boxing fans or the casual sports fan are on side still has to be done!!!

"30 steps are being jumped here before the feet are on the first couple!!!"

Haye has often mentioned Lennox Lewis - at no time did Lennox get desperate to fight anyone - he knew eventually he would prove who the real Number 1 was!!!
Last edited by Spud on 17 Feb 2009, 15:24, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: David Haye in need of a Plan B

Post by hitman_hatton1 »

hitman09 wrote:Haye is lucky now maybe he can get a few more heavyweight fights (against contenders, not Monte Barrett etc) before taking on the Klitschkos. He might eventually be able to compete with them but not now IMO
oh sod that.

who cares whether he earns it or not.

let's see the damn fight.

we all know about wlad's shortcomings around the chin.

let's see haye test him.

f*ck waiting another 18 months for it. :x
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Re: David Haye in need of a Plan B

Post by hitman09 »

hitman_hatton1 wrote:
hitman09 wrote:Haye is lucky now maybe he can get a few more heavyweight fights (against contenders, not Monte Barrett etc) before taking on the Klitschkos. He might eventually be able to compete with them but not now IMO
oh sod that.

who cares whether he earns it or not.

let's see the damn fight.

we all know about wlad's shortcomings around the chin.

let's see haye test him.

f*ck waiting another 18 months for it. :x
Might be a way better fight in 18 months :lol:
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Re: David Haye in need of a Plan B

Post by Horse »

Autobarn wrote:Klits want a rematch clause for both brothers, so if haye wins he can't defend his title cos either Wlad would want revenge or Vitali would (or both). It looks like he's being messed about by them - Vitali was coming to te UK, then Wlad was, then Haye says he'll go to Germany... - and the terms seem all wrong.
How is he being messed around? Don't you think that the Klitschkos have the right to call the shots in the negotiations?
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Re: David Haye in need of a Plan B

Post by King Tubby »

David is nowhere near Khan or Hatton in the selling stakes, is he?
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Re: David Haye in need of a Plan B

Post by whicker »

King Tubby wrote:David is nowhere near Khan or Hatton in the selling stakes, is he?
He is nowhere near Hatton, I doubt anyone in the world is.

As for Khan, well I'm not so sure- I think the big draw for Khan's upcoming fight is the quality of the opponent.

I'm just glad I didn't book any hotels for the London date.
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Re: David Haye in need of a Plan B

Post by chinny »

I know it's still boring but Adam Booth has apparently handed responsibility for negotiating a Klit fight to Richard Schaefer

http://www.ringtv.com/blog/347/schaefer ... klitschko/
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Re: David Haye in need of a Plan B

Post by jamesmcdonnell »

I don't blame the Klits if this fight doesn't happen for a while. I'm not sure how much Haye can bring to the table financially. Sure, the fight was interesting when there was the prospect of fighting in front of 55,000 at Stamford Bridge, as there would have been plenty of money on the table.

Now that's not happening, Wlad is considering other options - I don't blame him really - Haye isn't a massive star, and the fight could be bigger if Haye builds his profile a bit more.

I suspect Haye is more desperate, because he knows well that each foray into heavyweight means the chance he will get tagged and hurt. Barrat clearly hurt him in their fight despite getting battered - and it's risky to keep fighting north of 200.

Wlad and Vitali hold all the aces, and the only way I see this happening is if Haye takes a big pay cut AND concedes home advantage.
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Re: David Haye in need of a Plan B

Post by Wales »

Terence wrote:
Gray-Fox wrote:I was amazed to learn that Wlad is 55 fights deep going 52-3...that's some record.

Similarly I was amazed to learn that Haye had only had 22 fights or something like that.
Some padding as well. Areola is exciting, sure, but he is not very good. It will be a case of Klit pounding another fat pudding, which does sound like fun.

Some padding yes, boring winning styles too, but to be fair he's fought almost everyone thats out there in the heavies hasnt he.
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Re: David Haye in need of a Plan B

Post by jamesmcdonnell »

Wales wrote:
Terence wrote:
Gray-Fox wrote:I was amazed to learn that Wlad is 55 fights deep going 52-3...that's some record.

Similarly I was amazed to learn that Haye had only had 22 fights or something like that.
Some padding as well. Areola is exciting, sure, but he is not very good. It will be a case of Klit pounding another fat pudding, which does sound like fun.

Some padding yes, boring winning styles too, but to be fair he's fought almost everyone thats out there in the heavies hasnt he.
Wlad was very busy in his early career, and turned pro quite young so he's had a long career. There's a lot of pretty poor fights early on, but to be fair to him, these days, boring as he is, he's very effective, and is fighting pretty much everyone he can. Shame we will never see him fight Vitali - maybe if Vitali screwed his wife then Wlad might consider it.
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