Query Regarding The WBO Cruiserweight Championship!

[DustbinDave]

I was wondering if somebody could explain to me the situation as far as the WBO cruiserweight championship is concerned. Here is a bit of background for you:

On May 12, 2008, David Haye vacated his titles of WBC Cruiserweight champion and WBA Cruiserweight Super champion when he announced that he was stepping up to the heavyweight division. On July 22, 2008, he vacated his WBO Cruiserweight title.

Enzo Maccarinelli was due to face Johnathon Banks for the vacant WBO Cruiserweight title on December 6, 2008, but Banks had to withdraw with an ankle injury. He managed to find a replacement for the fight, Francisco Alvarez, who failed a medical due to high blood pressure. Herbie Hide had turned the fight down due to short notice, so, in the end, Maccarinelli had to step up to the heavyweight division to fight Matthew Ellis in a non-title bout.

All that makes sense......this is what I don't get.

On January 17, 2009, Victor Emilio Ramirez beat Alexander Alexeev to win the interim WBO Cruiserweight title.

This is Wikipedia's excellent (in my opinion) definition of what in meant by an "Interim championship":

"Occasionally, the world champion of a particular weight division is temporarily unable to defend his championship because of medical, legal, or other reasons that are beyond the champion's control. When this case occurs, two highly ranked contenders will fight for the interim championship of the same weight division—leading to two champions existing in the same weight division simultaneously. Once the world champion is able to return, he must fight against the interim champion. The winner of this bout reunifies the weight division as sole world champion. If the world champion cannot return or moves to a different weight division, the interim champion becomes the world champion."

Apply this definition to the situation in the WBO Cruiserweight division. Taking the first sentence into consideration, I would like to ask:

How could an interim championship fight be taking place on January 17, 2009, if there wasn't a WBO champion in the cruiserweight division at the time of the bout? The WBO Cruiserweight title has been vacant since July 22, 2008. Doesn't it make sense that you actually need a champion in the first place in order to have an interim championship?

"Once the world champion is able to return, he must fight against the interim champion." Well, there isn't a champion in the WBO Cruiserweight division TO return......so who is the interim WBO Cruiserweight champion supposed to fight in order to reunify "the weight division as sole world champion", as the definition explains?

Furthermore......on December 30, 2009, it was announced that the bout between Maccarinelli and Banks, also for the WBO Cruiserweight title, was to be rescheduled for a date in February 2009 on the same card as Amir Khan's next fight. This later turned out to be March 14, 2009. However, Banks decided to pull out of the contest for a second time as he instead favoured to fight IBF title holder Tomasz Adamek.

On January 26, 2009, it was announced that Maccarinelli would fight interim WBO Cruiserweight champion Victor Emilio Ramirez on March 14, 2009, but at the time of reporting, it was not known whether it was going to be for the WBO Cruiserweight title. On February 6, 2009, Ramirez too pulled out of the bout, saying he would not be ready in time.

Also on February 6, 2009, it was announced that Maccarinelli WILL fight Ola Afolabi on March 14, 2009, for the interim WBO Cruiserweight title.

So it would appear as though on March 14, 2009, we will have TWO interim WBO Cruiserweight champions and NO WBO Cruiserweight champion!

This is UNLESS Victor Emilio Ramirez's status has (since January 17, 2009), or will (between now and his next fight on April 11, 2009) be changed by the WBO from interim Cruiserweight champion to Cruiserweight champion.

According to BoxRec.com, his status has changed (or is about to change before his next fight) since becoming the interim WBO Cruiserweight champion on January 17, 2009.

This is because his next fight (as mentioned, on April 11, 2009) is for the WBO Cruiserweight title and not for the vacant WBO Cruiserweight title - indicating that there is already (or will be by that date) a champion in place (and it isn't his opponent, Ali Ismailov, so it has to be Ramirez)!

I guess this would kill two birds with one stone in a way:

1) Ensure that there isn't a situation where there are two interim title holders in the WBO cruiserweight division.

2) Ensure that there is a WBO title holder in place BEFORE Macarinelli takes on Afolabi on March 14, 2009, for the interim WBO Cruiserweight title.

If this is correct, exactly when did Victor Emilio Ramirez become the WBO Cruiserweight champion - or when will he become the WBO Cruiserweight champion between now and his fight on April 11, 2009?

[claudevsq]

It's like this: Victor Emilio Ramírez was elevated to full champion status by the WBO a few days following his win of the interim title, this by request of M. Rivera of O.R. Promotions. Now, Ramírez will defend his title on April 11th against Ali Ismailov. As for Afolabi and Maccarinelli, they will fight for the interim title on March 14th.

[Asterix]

Victor Emilio Ramirez fought Alexander Alexeev for the interim title because Maccarinelli and Banks were scheduled to fight for the full title. When that fell through and Ramirez said he wouldn't be ready to fight Maccarinelli in time, the WBO promoted Ramirez to the full WBO champion and told Maccarinelli to fight someone in the top 10 (Afolabi) and they would sanction it for the interim title.

[claudevsq]

Yeah, you can also see it on the official WBO page now, they updated their rankings today. Ramírez will defend his full title against Ali Ismailov next.

[DustbinDave]

Hello again. Thanks very much to claudevsq and Asterix for answering my questions.

Victor Emilio Ramirez must be the only fighter in boxing history to win a world title by refusing a fight! I find this extraordinary!

Poor old Enzo Maccarinelli......the WBO give him the first right of refusal, if you like, to fight for the Vacant WBO Cruiserweight title - fairly in my view, because he was the last man (the only man) who David Haye beat before vacating his title (and at that stage, Maccarinelli was the reigning WBO champion, a title he successfully defended four times).

Then, FIVE of his opponents withdraw from fights for the Vacant WBO Cruiserweight Title (if you include Herbie Hide, even though no fight had been agreed). These were: Banks, Alvarez, Hide, Banks for a second time and then Ramirez.

This wasn't Maccarinelli's fault, it was just an unbelievable run of poor fortune......and then the man who the WBO rate in comparison as only 'secondary' in status, Ramirez (only the 'interim' champion) refuses a fight and then becomes world champion.

Does anybody else find this a little bit odd?

Also, does anybody know the exact date that Victor Emilio Ramirez became the WBO Cruiserweight champion?

February 6, 2009, was the date that the media picked up on the fact that: (a) Ramirez pulled out of the fight with Maccarinelli for the WBO Cruiserweight title; (b) Maccarinelli's next fight would only be for the interim WBO Cruiserweight title; (c) this fight would be against Ola Afolabi, on March 14, 2009, at the M.E.N. Arena in Manchester.

However, it didn't say in the media that day that Ramirez had been made the WBO Cruiserweight champion, even though by saying that Maccarinelli/Afolabi was only for the 'interim' title, it kind of implies that somebody has become the WBO title holder (and it would make sense for that man to be Ramirez, as he was in possession of the 'interim' title at that stage).

DustbinDave.

[claudevsq]

It must have been in the week from January 19, 2009 to January 23, 2009. If you want to know exactly call the WBO under +17877654444 or e-mail them.

[Asterix]

DustbinDave,
It is definitely a strange way to crown a champion. We've grown to expect such things though, haven't we?

With regards to Maccarinelli's fights falling through. This must be stressed that it is only my opinion -- I think and have heard that Maccarinelli's bad luck is due to friction between the Calzaghes and F Warren. It looks like Maccarinelli will leave Warren when he's able to.

[DustbinDave]

Hi. Thanks for the information!

There was a very similar scenario to this in the WBC Light Welterweight division just over a decade ago if I'm not mistaken.

Oscar De La Hoya vacated his WBC Light Welterweight following his victory over Miguel Angel Gonzalez on January 18, 1997 so he could step-up to the Welterweight division and fight for the WBC Welterweight title.

Meanwhile, a bout was set-up for the vacant title between Gonzalez and two-time former WBC Light Welterweight champion Julio Cesar Chavez on March 7, 1998.

So they gave these two guys (Gonzalez and Chavez) the first right of refusal, if you like, to fight for the vacant WBC Light Welterweight title in the same way that the WBO gave Enzo Maccarinelli and Johnathon Banks the first right of refusal to fight for the Light Heavyweight title.

Anyway, the fight between them finished as a draw, so nobody could separate them in the same way that nobody could separate Maccarinelli and Banks (it's a bit difficult if they didn't even get in the ring in the first place).

Anyway, it was so long ago now, I can't remember the reason why Gonzalez and Chavez didn't have a rematch to decide the vacant title, so the WBC set-up an interim title bout between Kostya Tszyu and Diosbelys Hurtado - in the same way that the WBO set-up an interim title bout between Victor Emilio Ramirez and Alexander Alexeev after Banks pulled out of his fight with Maccarinelli the first time - on November 28, 1998.

I guess you've noticed the similarities, most notable the fact that there was an interim champion in the division but no champion in the division.

Anyway, the difference a decade ago was the fact that the WBC never actually made Kostya Tszyu champion (as the WBO did Ramirez in 2009) following his win over Diosbelys Hurtado for the WBC interim title......even though: a) for whatever reason, Gonzalez and Chavez never had a rematch, and; b) there was no champion in the division at the time.

So what the WBC did a decade ago, fairly in my opinion, is they let Tszyu, as the interim champion, fight Gonzalez for the vacant WBC Light Welterweight title (Tszyu won) and let Chavez be his (Tszyu's) opponent for his second title defence.

DustbinDave.

[Emaster]

There was a very similar scenario to this in the WBC Light Welterweight division just over a decade ago if I'm not mistaken.

Here's a little more about that case in the encyclopaedia.

[DustbinDave]

Thanks for that Emaster.

Sounds like a complicated scenario. The title was vacant from when De La Hoya vacated it in early 1997 (some time between January 18, 1997 and April 12, 1997) right the way through to August 21, 1999 - that is an awful long time for such a prestigious belt to have no owner!

It would have been a lot more straight-forward if Gonzalez had fought interim title rivals Tszyu or Hurtado for the vacant title.

Instead, four months after his drawn vacant WBC title fight against Chavez, Gonzalez fought Alex Perez in a non-title fight and then was inactive for 13 months before he fought interim champion Tszyu for the vacant title.

I've actually just discovered why Gonzalez and Chavez didn't have a rematch to decide the title. Chavez, who only just made the weight for his bout against Gonzalez on March 7, 1998, stepped up to the Welterweight division following the fight. Ironically, he fought Oscar De La Hoya on September 18, 1998 for the WBC Welterweight title - the man who had also stepped up from the Light Welterweight division and whose vacated title Chavez had fought for just 18 months earlier.

I would have thought that as #1 contender in the WBO (presuming he is, I haven't looked), Enzo Maccarinelli should have been afforded the same right as Gonzalez.

To an extent he was, as Ramirez/Alexeev was only a bout for the 'interim' title in the same way that Tszyu/Hurtado also was back in 1998. The only difference is: I doubt that IF (36 days before the Tszyu/Gonzalez fight for the vacant WBC Light Welterweight title) Tszyu (interim champion) decided to pull out of his fight with Gonzalez (#1 contender), Tszyu would have been awarded the title in the same way that Ramirez was!

I've just noticed that in the fifth paragraph of my last post on this thread, I referred to the title that Maccarinelli/Banks were scheduled to be fighting for as the "Light Heavyweight" title - I of course meant the "vacant WBO Cruiserweight" title.

DustbinDave.

[claudevsq]

You mean the "vacant WBO junior heavyweight title"... that's how the WBO officially calls it.

[DustbinDave]

You mean the "vacant WBO junior heavyweight title"... that's how the WBO officially calls it.

Indeed, you are quite right.

Adding to what I said yesterday, the Light Welterweight division (I guess that's Junior Welterweight ) had a bit of a history of having an interim champion but no champion!

Two further cases: Zab Judah won the interim IBF Light Welterweight title on January 16, 1999, when he defeated Wilfredo Negron. Vince Phillips was champion at the time but he lost his title a month later when he fought Terron Millett. Anyway, Millett was stripped of his title following his first and only defence - against Virgil McClendon on July 24, 1999. Instead of giving the title to interim champion Judah there and then, he had to beat Jan Piet Bergman on February 12, 2000 for the vacant title to become champion.

I guess the reason for this could have been the fact that on July 9, 1999, Judah stepped up to the Welterweight division to fight David Sample in a non-title bout. He could have possibly been stripped of his interim IBF Light Welterweight title for doing so?

The second instance is when Kostya Tszyu unified his WBC Light Welterweight title with the WBA belt by beating Sharmba Mitchell on February 3, 2001 - therefore, becoming the WBA Light Welterweight Super champion and leaving the Regular title vacant.

Instead of setting up a bout for the vacant title, Randall Bailey fought Demetrio Ceballos for the interim title on February 2, 2002.

Bailey, three months after becoming interim champion, lost to Diosbelys Hurtado for the vacant WBA Light Welterweight Regular title.

I guess Hurtado could have been the WBA's #1 contender and therefore Bailey and Ceballos were only able to fight for the interim title, with the winner facing Hurtado for the title?

[claudevsq]

Recently, by the end of last year, Humberto Soto was the WBC's interim champion at superfeatherweight for a while, with the full title being vacant.