Old School Ref vs New Age Ref, The Wolgast/Rivers Clip

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

Here's the infamous Mexican Joe River/Ad Wolgast KO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEJED2DZyCc

Wolgast routinely blasted for traveling with his own ref, Jack Welch, who's accused of lifting up Wolgast to beat the count after a double KO. Clearly no blows land on Wolgast to KO him. Instead, after a vicious series of uppercuts KO Rivers, the forward momentum leaves Wolgast off balance after he tangles with the feet of Rivers, grabbing the ropes and splaying his legs.

In short, he impales his crotch with full weight upon the downed River's shoulder. Welch starts to pick him off of Rivers, but is surprised by the unexpected full weight of Wolgast grabbing his crotch and has to give a another stronger tug to separate their feet, at which time Wolgast is on steadier legs.

It's a silent clip, so no bell can be heard, but River's corner is entering the ring at this moment. My interpretation is they know their guy was KOed and the fight was over, so now we have the additional possibility of a DQ because of the corner.

Don't know what the ruling would be when a fighter simultaneously injures himself knocking out his opponent as the opponent's corner enters the ring, but it looks to me like Welch did the natural thing, which is to separate the fighters which entailed him assisting Wolgast up as River's corner tended to him.

[klompton]

You have summed up my exact feelings on this fight. After watching it Ive never understood the enduring controversy on it. Wolgast clearly dropped Rivers and then tripped on top of him.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

You have summed up my exact feelings on this fight. After watching it Ive never understood the enduring controversy on it. Wolgast clearly dropped Rivers and then tripped on top of him.

- Compare the actions of Welch to Cortez in the first Lorenzo/Soto fight where he and the ring doc let Lorenzo almost choke in his own blood for 5 min as they huddle with Commish and ABC suits to haggle over the call.

Interesting period though with Wolgast using his own ref for many defenses. I guess that was the one way to neutralize hometown cooking in those days.

[klompton]

Johnny Wilson and Al McCoy used to bring their own referees as well.

[My2Sense]

Reports say that Rivers landed a short punch on the inside at the same time that Wolgast landed that last uppercut, and that dazed him and contributed to his fall. Like the rest of you, I couldn't see that punch, at least not on that grainy film and from the angle it's at.

However, two other things need to be pointed out here...

1) The last punch that put Rivers down is often accused of being low, and Rivers is in fact lying on the canvas complaining of a low punch as the ref is counting.

2) The bell reportedly rang well before the count of ten was reached, which would also explain why Rivers' people are entering the ring.


On a separate note, there was an old article by The Ring that discusses this fight, and mentioned previous fights in which there's been double knockdowns/KOs. The results have varied - some being called draws, others no-contests, and other various results. It all depended on the ref and what he personally decided to do. I'll have to see later if I can dig up that article.