British Training Camps

paulyb · Post by **paulyb** » 01 Jul 2004, 19:56

One question please,

In the modern era of boxing, which British training camp is the most successful?

Maybe not definitive answers, but opinions.

Thank you in advance.

theguru · Post by **theguru** » 02 Jul 2004, 08:28

If the criteria was most successful training camp solely managed and trained by one person it would have to be the Brendan Ingle camp.
Graham,Hamed and Nelson all having very long reigns as Champions
World Champions
Naseem Hamed
Johhny Nelson

European Champions
Esham Pickering
Junior Witter
Herol Graham
Naseem Hamed
Johnny Nelson

Commonwealth Champions
Herol Graham
Junior Witter
Esham Pickering

British Champions
Herol Graham
Brian Anderson
Johnny Nelson
Chris Saunders
Ryan Rhodes
Junior Witter
Esham Pickering
Fidel Castro Smith(Slugger o toole)
Neville Brown (won the title under Ingles training regime)

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 02 Jul 2004, 13:39

Guru,

Wasn't Herbie under Brendan's guidance also during his best period. He certainly was during his 2nd WBO reign.

theguru · Post by **theguru** » 02 Jul 2004, 16:55

I think Ingle trained him after losing to bowe,for the Fight with tucker when Hide won and maybe up until the fight before Klitschko.And although Ingle didnt train Hide for the Klitschko fight I think he went in the corner as chief second,but I may be wrong.

AlexY2K4 · Post by **AlexY2K4** » 02 Jul 2004, 17:20

Wow, isn't that sad? The most successful British training camp managed by one person was the Brendan Ingle camp who have only managed to produce ONE world champ.

Guru, just for the record, Johnny Nelson has never been a world champ.

neil r · Post by **neil r** » 02 Jul 2004, 17:51

AlexY2K4 wrote:Wow, isn't that sad? The most successful British training camp managed by one person was the Brendan Ingle camp who have only managed to produce ONE world champ.

Guru, just for the record, Johnny Nelson has never been a world champ.

According to his recored he's been WBO Cruiserweight champion (still is) and WBF champ.

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=000623

AlexY2K4 · Post by **AlexY2K4** » 02 Jul 2004, 17:53

neil r wrote:
AlexY2K4 wrote:Wow, isn't that sad? The most successful British training camp managed by one person was the Brendan Ingle camp who have only managed to produce ONE world champ.

Guru, just for the record, Johnny Nelson has never been a world champ.
According to his recored he's been WBO Cruiserweight champion (still is) and WBF champ.

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=000623

They aren't world titles.

neil r · Post by **neil r** » 02 Jul 2004, 17:56

AlexY2K4 wrote:
neil r wrote:
AlexY2K4 wrote:Wow, isn't that sad? The most successful British training camp managed by one person was the Brendan Ingle camp who have only managed to produce ONE world champ.

Guru, just for the record, Johnny Nelson has never been a world champ.
According to his recored he's been WBO Cruiserweight champion (still is) and WBF champ.

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=000623

They aren't world titles.

maybe piss poor but versions of a world title nonetheless. your post didnt actually stipulate which belts you consider relavent to your statement

TheRiverCityHippy · Post by **TheRiverCityHippy** » 02 Jul 2004, 17:58

i think your being harsh alex, next you`ll be saying ricky hatton isn`t a legitimate world champion.

AlexY2K4 · Post by **AlexY2K4** » 02 Jul 2004, 18:11

neil r wrote:
AlexY2K4 wrote:
neil r wrote: According to his recored he's been WBO Cruiserweight champion (still is) and WBF champ.

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=000623

They aren't world titles.
maybe piss poor but versions of a world title nonetheless. your post didnt actually stipulate which belts you consider relavent to your statement

Fair reply Neil R, but I just refuse to recognize any WBO title fight as a "World Title" fight!

Call me old fashioned, but the only titles I recognize are the WBC, WBA, IBF and Ring Magazine titles.

So, people say that Duke McKenzie is the British fighter who has won the most world titles in different weights, when in fact, he has never even won a world title!

And Chris Eubank has made the most successful world title defences that a Brit has ever made, yet he has only had one world title fight, and a dodgy draw at that.

They are just my opinions.

Let's just hope that Ricky Hatton can finally come out of hiding against Vivian Harris in October. (Doubtfull!)

Eric the Viking · Post by **Eric the Viking** » 02 Jul 2004, 18:17

headhunter wrote:i think your being harsh alex, next you`ll be saying ricky hatton isn`t a legitimate world champion.

And that would be exactly correct, as would be saying that Audley Harrison is no world champion. They're the WBU and WBF titlists at their respective weights, that's all.

The WBO is generally considered a cut above the aforementioned toilet paper titles, but is still a second-tier title, much like the regional NABF title here in North America.

Note that I'm not basing the titular prestige on any supposed "integrity" of the respective sanctioning bodies - they're all pretty dodgy - but rather on the history of the title and how it is perceived by the fighters themselves.

neil r · Post by **neil r** » 02 Jul 2004, 18:31

AlexY2K4 wrote:
neil r wrote:
AlexY2K4 wrote:
They aren't world titles.
maybe piss poor but versions of a world title nonetheless. your post didnt actually stipulate which belts you consider relavent to your statement

Fair reply Neil R, but I just refuse to recognize any WBO title fight as a "World Title" fight!

Call me old fashioned, but the only titles I recognize are the WBC, WBA, IBF and Ring Magazine titles.

WBC - curently filing for bankruptcy due to being found manipulating its rankings and getting fined $31million

WBA - now have ""super champions" in another desperate attmpt to con punters and fighters alike out of even more money / sanctioning fees

.... such august and beligerent bodies.

Incidently, your saying that Hamed was never a legitimate "world" champ due to him holding the WBO, but he was when he won the IBF? and currently you genuinlly think that John ruiz is at this moment one of the best heavyweights in the world because he wins the WBA title against Rahman and defends it against Fres Oquendo?

lets be honest at the end of the day the punters know who the genuine best fighters in the world are are regardless of whatever bauble their fighting for. Bareras got it spot on - fornicate the belts the governing bodies and their sanctioning fees. Everyones getting pissed off with the alphabet boys and thankfully "world" title belts are getting more and more irrelevant.

theguru · Post by **theguru** » 02 Jul 2004, 18:49

Depends what u call sad Alex I suppose it is if you consider no other camp in the UK has come even as close!

I didnt realise that the WBO belt isnt recognised in Manchester,well Nelson did hold the WBU heavyweight title so that should should satisfy you.

AlexY2K4 · Post by **AlexY2K4** » 03 Jul 2004, 13:26

theguru wrote:Depends what u call sad Alex I suppose it is if you consider no other camp in the UK has come even as close!

I didnt realise that the WBO belt isnt recognised in Manchester,well Nelson did hold the WBU heavyweight title so that should should satisfy you.

So guru, you presume just because I am from Manchester that I am one of the Ricky Hatton mugs who thinks he is a proper world champ who has made 11 or 12 defences?

There are actually some fans in Manchester who know what they are talking about and I am one of those fans.

Any boxing fan who had a half decent knowledge of the sport would know that the WBU/IBO/WBF titles are second rate toilet paper and the WBO title is just a laughable mickey mouse belt.

I'm sorry to say this guru, but Oscar De La Hoya is not a world champ, nor is Johnny Nelson, nor is Scotty Harrison and nor is Lamon Brewster.

I haven't said that I think the proper bodies are not corrupt, but the big three are the only titles that mean anything.

And yes, John Ruiz IS one of the best heavyweights in the world. Lennox Lewis is retired and Roy Jones' heavyweight career is in doubt, so the three world champs at the weight all have as much right as each other to say that they are the best untill they fight one another. I don't think Ruiz is the best, but I think untill he loses that WBA belt, he is one of the major players in the division.

neil r · Post by **neil r** » 03 Jul 2004, 15:33

AlexY2K4 wrote:
theguru wrote:Depends what u call sad Alex I suppose it is if you consider no other camp in the UK has come even as close!

I didnt realise that the WBO belt isnt recognised in Manchester,well Nelson did hold the WBU heavyweight title so that should should satisfy you.

And yes, John Ruiz IS one of the best heavyweights in the world.

AlexY2K4 · Post by **AlexY2K4** » 03 Jul 2004, 16:11

neil r wrote:
AlexY2K4 wrote:
theguru wrote:Depends what u call sad Alex I suppose it is if you consider no other camp in the UK has come even as close!

I didnt realise that the WBO belt isnt recognised in Manchester,well Nelson did hold the WBU heavyweight title so that should should satisfy you.

And yes, John Ruiz IS one of the best heavyweights in the world.

Neil R,

I don't see why you find that so amusing. Ruiz IS one of the best. Think about it. It's a poor division, Lewis is gone, Vitali is WBC champ, Ruiz is WBA champ and Byrd is IBF champ. There are three world champs.

None have fought each other apart from the Vitali-Byrd fight which had a crap conclusion.

Untill Ruiz loses his title, it is unreasonable and unfair to not include him in the mix.

And forget the Jones defeat because Jones is no longer officially a heavyweight.

I'm not saying Ruiz is a great fighter, so get that crap out of your head, i'm just saying that he is WBA champ which is a damn sight more than anyone on these boards can ever say they have been, and as I say, untill he loses that, he is one of the three world heavyweight champs.

theguru · Post by **theguru** » 04 Jul 2004, 06:02

Alex you THINK you know what you are talking about thats the problem.There was a time when the IBF wasnt recognised by the WBC/WBA now it is,sooner or later the WBO will be.The WBO is not recognised due to the fact that the other three organisations dont recognise it.Its the fighter who validates the organisation.Naseem Hamed was WBO champ he beat Tom Johnson who was the IBF Champ,Wilfredo Vazquez who was stripped as the WBA champ for boxing hamed.He then went on to box Cesar Soto for the WBC and won.So Alex "I know it all from Manchester" you actually Know Jack shit.

Naseem Hamed proved that as WBO champ he was the best, the WBO champ beat all the so called recognised World Champions.So if a World Champion from a so called non recognised organisation beats all the other recognised World Champions it kind of makes a mockery of what u actually think doesnt it!!!!!!

So before u decide to tell the world who in your opinion is and isnt a world champion then I suggest u sit down and learn a lot more about boxing because what u actually know could be written on the back of a postage stamp.

neil r · Post by **neil r** » 04 Jul 2004, 06:20

theguru wrote:Alex you THINK you know what you are talking about thats the problem.There was a time when the IBF wasnt recognised by the WBC/WBA now it is,sooner or later the WBO will be.The WBO is not recognised due to the fact that the other three organisations dont recognise it.Its the fighter who validates the organisation.Naseem Hamed was WBO champ he beat Tom Johnson who was the IBF Champ,Wilfredo Vazquez who was stripped as the WBA champ for boxing hamed.He then went on to box Cesar Soto for the WBC and won.So Alex "I know it all from Manchester" you actually Know Jack shit.

Naseem Hamed proved that as WBO champ he was the best, the WBO champ beat all the so called recognised World Champions.So if a World Champion from a so called non recognised organisation beats all the other recognised World Champions it kind of makes a mockery of what u actually think doesnt it!!!!!!

So before u decide to tell the world who in your opinion is and isnt a world champion then I suggest u sit down and learn a lot more about boxing because what u actually know could be written on the back of a postage stamp.

guru mate, give up. i did after the "Ruiz IS one of the best" quote and as for the "And forget the Jones defeat because Jones is no longer officially a heavyweight." statement.

Perhaps it should read "And forget the Jones defeat because Jones is no longer officially a heavyweight and therfore the fact Ruiz got beaten by a guy who is really a super middleweight and only fought Ruiz because hes the weakest heavyweight out there, despite the fact he holds the WBA belt which i rate so highly, doesnt suit my argument so lets not mention it"

Your life is precious guru dont waste it on this guy!!

theguru · Post by **theguru** » 04 Jul 2004, 10:11

Ill take your advice Neil

mrbassie · Post by **mrbassie** » 04 Jul 2004, 11:02

theguru wrote: you actually Know Jack shit.

I wish I knew him, everybody else seems to. Really emphasises for me how far I am from being part of the in crowd. I'm so unpopular, excuse me for a while, I'm going to go and eat a tub of ice cream. Jack never answers my letters

I bet he throws the best parties too

AlexY2K4 · Post by **AlexY2K4** » 04 Jul 2004, 11:14

theguru wrote:Alex you THINK you know what you are talking about thats the problem.There was a time when the IBF wasnt recognised by the WBC/WBA now it is,sooner or later the WBO will be.The WBO is not recognised due to the fact that the other three organisations dont recognise it.Its the fighter who validates the organisation.Naseem Hamed was WBO champ he beat Tom Johnson who was the IBF Champ,Wilfredo Vazquez who was stripped as the WBA champ for boxing hamed.He then went on to box Cesar Soto for the WBC and won.So Alex "I know it all from Manchester" you actually Know Jack shit.

Naseem Hamed proved that as WBO champ he was the best, the WBO champ beat all the so called recognised World Champions.So if a World Champion from a so called non recognised organisation beats all the other recognised World Champions it kind of makes a mockery of what u actually think doesnt it!!!!!!

So before u decide to tell the world who in your opinion is and isnt a world champion then I suggest u sit down and learn a lot more about boxing because what u actually know could be written on the back of a postage stamp.

Guru, you are a dickhead. Guru clearly isn't a very appropriate name for you.

I am a very knowledgable boxing fan and many people think so as well. As much as you don't like John Ruiz, you will have to live with the fact that for now, he is recognized as a top 5 heavyweight.

And you also have to live with the fact that the WBO title is not recognized as a proper world title. It is a paper title.

And Neil r, the same applies to you as well.

I am a knowledgable fan and you can't handle the fact that I disagree with you.

Anyone who thinks I don't know anything about the sport needs to ask themselves whether they know much.

neil r · Post by **neil r** » 04 Jul 2004, 11:39

AlexY2K4 wrote:
Guru, you are a dickhead. Guru clearly isn't a very appropriate name for you.

I am a very knowledgable boxing fan and many people think so as well. As much as you don't like John Ruiz, you will have to live with the fact that for now, he is recognized as a top 5 heavyweight.

And you also have to live with the fact that the WBO title is not recognized as a proper world title. It is a paper title.

And Neil r, the same applies to you as well.

I am a knowledgable fan and you can't handle the fact that I disagree with you.

Anyone who thinks I don't know anything about the sport needs to ask themselves whether they know much.

Outstanding this has to be a classic reply. i actually cracked up reading it!!

"Anyone who thinks I don't know anything about the sport needs to ask themselves whether they know much."

"I am a very knowledgable boxing fan and many people think so as well"

"Guru, you are a dickhead. Guru clearly isn't a very appropriate name for you. And Neil r, the same applies to you as well."

Vintage stuff!!

AlexY2K4 · Post by **AlexY2K4** » 04 Jul 2004, 11:43

neil r wrote:
AlexY2K4 wrote:
Guru, you are a dickhead. Guru clearly isn't a very appropriate name for you.

I am a very knowledgable boxing fan and many people think so as well. As much as you don't like John Ruiz, you will have to live with the fact that for now, he is recognized as a top 5 heavyweight.

And you also have to live with the fact that the WBO title is not recognized as a proper world title. It is a paper title.

And Neil r, the same applies to you as well.

I am a knowledgable fan and you can't handle the fact that I disagree with you.

Anyone who thinks I don't know anything about the sport needs to ask themselves whether they know much.
Outstanding this has to be a classic reply. i actually cracked up reading it!!

"Anyone who thinks I don't know anything about the sport needs to ask themselves whether they know much."

"I am a very knowledgable boxing fan and many people think so as well"

"Guru, you are a dickhead. Guru clearly isn't a very appropriate name for you. And Neil r, the same applies to you as well."

Vintage stuff!!

Any why, may I ask is that amusing? It is fact. I'm sorry but i'm not going to let you say that I don't know anything about boxing because that is simply a load of crap.

neil r · Post by **neil r** » 04 Jul 2004, 12:17

Alex, would you mind if I used your "Anyone who thinks I don't know anything about the sport needs to ask themselves whether they know much." line as my signature?

ive been looking for a good one for ages and it honestly cracks me up.

You'll be given full acknowledgement of it!

AlexY2K4 · Post by **AlexY2K4** » 04 Jul 2004, 12:48

neil r wrote:Alex, would you mind if I used your "Anyone who thinks I don't know anything about the sport needs to ask themselves whether they know much." line as my signature?

ive been looking for a good one for ages and it honestly cracks me up.

You'll be given full acknowledgement of it!

I don't really care neil, because at the end of the day, I am right and you are wrong.

Simple as that.