The Greatest Middleweight ever?

[theone]

In a head to head I'll take Hagler over Monzon since he did well against tall opponents so Hagler's my #1.

I believe the difference in this fight would be the fact that Monzon seemed to handle pressure better. There is not really much seperating these two when it comes to speed, power, skill and toughness, but I see Monzon maintaining his poise better when the going got tough and that would allow him to edge Hagler on the scorecards. Hagler appeared to get flustered alot when things werent going his way, while Monzon wore a terminator like expression in the ring.

[Borinken25]

1. Monzon
2. Hagler
3. Greb
4. Ketchel
5. Hopkins based on accomplishment and longevity. Head to head I’ll pick Jones
6. Robinson
7. Jones
8. Walker

[ringsider]

Why is Hagler even mentioned? He was a southpaw.....plodding, slow.....

[JC]

Why is Hagler even mentioned? He was a southpaw.....plodding, slow.....

Did you girlfriend run off with a southpaw or something?

[blueberrymuffin]

In a head to head I'll take Hagler over Monzon since he did well against tall opponents so Hagler's my #1.

I believe the difference in this fight would be the fact that Monzon seemed to handle pressure better. There is not really much seperating these two when it comes to speed, power, skill and toughness, but I see Monzon maintaining his poise better when the going got tough and that would allow him to edge Hagler on the scorecards. Hagler appeared to get flustered alot when things werent going his way, while Monzon wore a terminator like expression in the ring.

From long range, Hagler has the more damaging weapons. Marvin hurt people with his jab, Monzon didn't. His jab was more of a paw while Hagler nailed people with his. Monzon also slow with his hands. Great footwork though.

Marvin wasn't as agile as Monzon with his upper body nor did he quite have the kind of footwork that Monzon had but Marvin would score enough with his right jab, slip Monzon's lazy left and take Monzon's right on the gloves while scoring to the ribs.

As for how poised each man would be, no one can say. I've seen Hagler in fights where things went against him and he suddenly ended the fight; when Scypion got in his chest, Hagler moved away and seconds later scored a right hook to the chin that put Wilford on the deck for a ten count. When Lee scored early in the first, Hagler rebounded with that jab to the temple, turning his head into mush and taking him out of the fight. In the Hearns fight, when referee steele stopped the action the third due to cuts, hagler poured it on fighting beyond his usual ferocity and put Tommy on the deck.

hagler could be a basket case, no doubt but when he took an opponent seriously and he wanted to fight, he didn't care who was in front of him. I see marvin as being more versatile than Monzon, having better weapons, and with at least the same stamina and endurance. I've also seen him tested a bit more than Carlos since he got past some hairly moments with Roldan, Hart, Hearns, Watts, and Antuofuermo to name a few. Prime Hagler (81, 82) wins late in the fight.

[kick asner]

Why is Hagler even mentioned? He was a southpaw.....plodding, slow.....

Well I guessed three out of four as soon as I Saw Ringsiders name before I even read his post I thought he will say Hagler is a slow plodding southpaw, but this time he left out the foot in the bucket part. Oh I almost forgot he will also say something like Hagler has trouble fighting ex flyweights and struggles against bantamweights.

[Ulysses]

Harry Greb
Sugar Ray Robinson
Marvin Hagler
Stanley Ketchel
Carlos Monzon

[BoxBuzz]

ANSWER IS........Carlos Monzon!....

Those of you who got this right will now move forward to the lightening round.

[Ezzard]

It looked perfect until I posted it. So here it is again.

SAM LANGFORD
1.Philadelphia Jack O'Brien WKO 5
2.Tony Caponi WKO 3 W10
3.Jack Johnson L15
4.Porky Dan Flynn NC8 WKO 4 WKO 14
5.Willie Lewis WKO 2
6. Jim Smith WKO 5

STANLEY KETCHEL
1. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien W10 WKO 3
2. Tony Caponi WKO 4
3. Jack Johnson LKO 12
4. Porky Dan Flynn WKO 3
5. Willie Lewis WKO 2
6. Jim Smith WKO 5

Interesting comparison, Seamus...

Anyone fancy kicking around top MWs again?

Should Hopkins be given more notice?

[Goodnight, Irene]

I used to go with Monzon at the top, but I've smartened up & taken Greb as my number one in recent years. Yes, there's a degree of faith-leaping in it --- justified entirely by his record. It cannot be beaten.

[ringsider]

Hagler....I'm biased though. (Honestly, I'm kidding, I have to say SRR here)

However, I do feel that if he fought Leonard in his prime, Hagler dominates the fight. I truly don't believe that Leonard did enough to beat Hagler the first time, as fighting the last 15 seconds of each round and comboing the other guys arms and elbows aren't landed punches. Also, the pro-Leonard crowd going nuts every time he breathed didn't help Hagler either. If Hagler wins that fight, he's a lock at #2, where since he didn't, you can pretty much lump him and Monzon together.

Leonard was the better fighter in every respect......learn to live with it.

He always was.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

I used to go with Monzon at the top, but I've smartened up & taken Greb as my number one in recent years. Yes, there's a degree of faith-leaping in it --- justified entirely by his record. It cannot be beaten.

- Greb seems to start off as a work in progress, dropping a lot of bouts to nobodies in particular.

What I find interesting is the spread of his first weights reported, 142 as an 18 yr old, and 170 a year later. He must've been either fat that we don't capture in the pics we have or he is taller than the 5-8 listed on boxrec as his body type is long and lean.

Monzon has a stellar record, one of the few to beat every man they faced although he needed a few rematches. He benefits from more championship bouts in the modern era against a stable of HOFers. Seems to be a more developed work of excellence early on and had an international presence.

No problems touting Greb since he is one of the greatest and parameters of greatness never defined. However, don't think he could handle Langford's comp at a similar age of development as Sam moved out of the light and welts into his middle/LH/Heavy fight weights.

Greb turns pro around the same timeframe as Dempsey and is a very much a regional type fighter for a long period in Pennsylvania, only occasionally venturing forth barely across state lines. Dempsey always tagged with ducking Langford, but seems to me that Greb was much closer to Sam's natural weight class and more locally available, so how come no charges that Greb ducked Langford, Jeannette, and Wills if he is to be considered a genuine threat to the heavy division?

Aren't props always given to fighters successful outside their weight classes as part of the unstated historical judgments? Nobody exists that is greater than Langford on a number of fronts, but his weight class is hard to nail down.

[klompton]

When he weighed 170 against Borrell He hadnt fought in a month and hadnt been training much. He came out of the audience to face Borrell because Borrell's opponent was sick. It was literally a last minute replacement. thats why he weighed so much. It was not his natural fighting weight at that point in his career (or ever for that matter).

[Martin Sosa Cameron]

1__ Stanley Ketchel
2__ Harry Greb
3__ Ray Robinson
4__ Mickey Walker
5__ Carlos Monzon

[Elton John]

Hagler followed by Greb then Jones Jr.

The rest....Robinson, Monzon round out the top five

[Jaywheel]

No way Jones jr accomplishments at MW warrant him a 3rd place.

[dempseyfire]

Jones Jr has to be ranked as a light hw or super middle . . .he did ONE thing of note at 160 and that was beat a still developing Hopkins.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I'd like to see how well Hagler or Monzon or anyone else's pick for #1 at 160 did against Tunney. Think they could've beaten him?

Not a prayer.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

I'd like to see how well Hagler or Monzon or anyone else's pick for #1 at 160 did against Tunney. Think they could've beaten him?
Not a prayer.

- Probably KO him as champs seeing as they were in their primes and Tunny was just starting off.

Tunney was well over 160 for the last few Greb bouts and we don't know how much weight he cut to make the contract. Maybe by then he could hold his own if they wanted a crack at him at LH. When he challenged Dempsey he had close to 10 lbs on him. He was the bigger man.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I'm saying --- if Hagler or Monzon fought Tunney at LHW, Tunney'd make fodder of 'em.

Not so, Greb.

[Elton John]

Jones Jr has to be ranked as a light hw or super middle . . .he did ONE thing of note at 160 and that was beat a still developing Hopkins.

Why cant we say Jones was also developing? As I recall, both of them turned pro the same year and if anyone was at a disadvantage it was Roy with a busted hand and weight drained against Bernard who was healthy as kittens. Even so I scored it for Roy 9-3 in rounds

[Argentine]

1° MONZON=terminator 8)
2°GREB
3°HAGLER
4°SRR
5°HOPKINS

[Bladder]

1. Bert Gilroy
2. Ginger Saad
3. Greb
4. Robinson
5. Hagler

[mhagler91490]

1-Carlos Monzon
2-Harry Greb
3-Sugar Ray Robinson
4-Marvin Hagler
5- This one is kind of hard, I have made cases in my head for Dick Tiger, Stanley Ketchel and Mickey Walker but it is just too hard to decide.

[Syntax Error]

1) Carlos Monzon

2) Marvin Hagler

3) Sugar Ray Robinson

4) Stanley Ketchel

5) Harry Greb

The MWs are so hard to rate IMO.