Unification series in each division.....Is this the answer ?

[Quixall]

Boxing has been falling in popularity in recent years and relatively new contact sports, such as MMA and the various cage fighting events, have started to make big inroads on boxings' core audience....

There are many reasons for this, but one one of the major complaints about boxing, is that there are too many world champions in each division. The individaul (four) world champions rarely get matched up, due to political and financial considerations and the paying public and wider sports fans in general, are unsure as to who is the number one fighter in each divsison.

Putting aside the obvious political and financial issues, that would no doubt prevent such a plan being implemented. Do you think, in principle, that it would help boxing's popularity and take some of the confusion away for casual fight/sports fans, who perhaps make up a bigger percentage of the boxing audience, than is the case with die-hard boxing fans who tolerate the staus quo ??

Your thoughts Please

[Neil Jones Jnr]

It would be amazing to be honest, but the only problem is eventually someone would get stripped then there would be confusion. For instance Marquez is the lightweight champion according to the ring but the many thought Campbell was the tru champ because he had all the belts.

It wouldn't happen in the heavy division because Vitali wouldn't fight his bro.

Here is who I think are the best.

Heavy: Vitali Klitchko
Cruiser: Enzo Maccarenelli
Light Heavy: Chad Dawson
Super Middle: Mikkell Kessler
Middle: Arthur Abraham
Light Middle: Vernon Forrest
Welter: Miguel Cotto
Jr Welter: Ricky Hatton
Light: Juan Manuel Marquez
Super Feather:Edwin Valero
Feather: Chris John
Super Bantam: Rafael Marquez (I think he won the third Vazq fight)
Bantam below not really up on to be honest

Cheers

N

[Quixall]

It would be amazing to be honest, but the only problem is eventually someone would get stripped then there would be confusion. For instance Marquez is the lightweight champion according to the ring but the many thought Campbell was the tru champ because he had all the belts.

It wouldn't happen in the heavy division because Vitali wouldn't fight his bro.

Here is who I think are the best.

Heavy: Vitali Klitchko
Cruiser: Enzo Maccarenelli
Light Heavy: Chad Dawson
Super Middle: Mikkell Kessler
Middle: Arthur Abraham
Light Middle: Vernon Forrest
Welter: Miguel Cotto
Jr Welter: Ricky Hatton
Light: Juan Manuel Marquez
Super Feather:Edwin Valero
Feather: Chris John
Super Bantam: Rafael Marquez (I think he won the third Vazq fight)
Bantam below not really up on to be honest

Cheers

N

Would perhaps put Pavlik ahead of Abraham

and untill he retires, i would still fancy B-Hop against Dawson

[Neil Jones Jnr]

It would be amazing to be honest, but the only problem is eventually someone would get stripped then there would be confusion. For instance Marquez is the lightweight champion according to the ring but the many thought Campbell was the tru champ because he had all the belts.

It wouldn't happen in the heavy division because Vitali wouldn't fight his bro.

Here is who I think are the best.

Heavy: Vitali Klitchko
Cruiser: Enzo Maccarenelli
Light Heavy: Chad Dawson
Super Middle: Mikkell Kessler
Middle: Arthur Abraham
Light Middle: Vernon Forrest
Welter: Miguel Cotto
Jr Welter: Ricky Hatton
Light: Juan Manuel Marquez
Super Feather:Edwin Valero
Feather: Chris John
Super Bantam: Rafael Marquez (I think he won the third Vazq fight)
Bantam below not really up on to be honest

Cheers

N

Would perhaps put Pavlik ahead of Abraham

and untill he retires, i would still fancy B-Hop against Dawson

I actually think Pavlik deserves his regonition as the legit middle champion, but I do think Abraham could beat him, be close.

You can never count Hopkins out, I wouldn't argue with that.

[Quixall]

i would have to agree with your list Neil and i would great to see some sort of Unification series a bit like the middle weight one in the late 90's which Bhop won. the trouble with this sort of thing is that is great in principal but in reality it will never happen with all the different titles, promoters and fights tied to various networks. I thinkthe closest think we get to a real champ in each division is the Ring Champion but also seems to flawed if Calzaghe is Fighting an old Roy JOnes to decide who is top dog.

I think that most people would agree that the politics, fianace and vested interests would get in the way of any full blown unification series. Do you remeber the 1980's heavyweight series, with Tyson, Smith, Witherspoon, Tucker and Spinks ?

I think that none of the recognised bodies do a good job in terms of their ranking lists, p4p status or attempts at creating a "truely recognised" set of divisional world champions....

Look at Neil's list, that's proof that a forum like this is the best gauge of "who is the best....."

[Quixall]

It would be amazing to be honest, but the only problem is eventually someone would get stripped then there would be confusion. For instance Marquez is the lightweight champion according to the ring but the many thought Campbell was the tru champ because he had all the belts.

It wouldn't happen in the heavy division because Vitali wouldn't fight his bro.

Here is who I think are the best.

Heavy: Vitali Klitchko
Cruiser: Enzo Maccarenelli
Light Heavy: Chad Dawson
Super Middle: Mikkell Kessler
Middle: Arthur Abraham
Light Middle: Vernon Forrest
Welter: Miguel Cotto
Jr Welter: Ricky Hatton
Light: Juan Manuel Marquez
Super Feather:Edwin Valero
Feather: Chris John
Super Bantam: Rafael Marquez (I think he won the third Vazq fight)
Bantam below not really up on to be honest

Cheers

N

i just noticed you had Enzo at no1 at crusier which i would have to disagree, a certain Admeck (dodgy spelling) is the number one for me as is Paul Williams at light middle.

Looks like Neil's list has turned to shite

[Neil Jones Jnr]

It would be amazing to be honest, but the only problem is eventually someone would get stripped then there would be confusion. For instance Marquez is the lightweight champion according to the ring but the many thought Campbell was the tru champ because he had all the belts.

It wouldn't happen in the heavy division because Vitali wouldn't fight his bro.

Here is who I think are the best.

Heavy: Vitali Klitchko
Cruiser: Enzo Maccarenelli
Light Heavy: Chad Dawson
Super Middle: Mikkell Kessler
Middle: Arthur Abraham
Light Middle: Vernon Forrest
Welter: Miguel Cotto
Jr Welter: Ricky Hatton
Light: Juan Manuel Marquez
Super Feather:Edwin Valero
Feather: Chris John
Super Bantam: Rafael Marquez (I think he won the third Vazq fight)
Bantam below not really up on to be honest

Cheers

N

i just noticed you had Enzo at no1 at crusier which i would have to disagree, a certain Admeck (dodgy spelling) is the number one for me as is Paul Williams at light middle.

The Enzo Mac one I admit is controversal but I honestly do believe he's the best. I think Adamek is made for Enzo, lack of speed and walk straight forward. I actually think Cunningham is the biggest threat to Enzo who lost to Ademek.

Paul Williams has only beaten Vernon Phillips at Light Middle and is now fightiing at Middle, thats why I didn't list him. I think Pacquiao is better and will beat Hatton but he hasn't been in the division yet to rate him no 1.

Cheers

N

[Autobarn]

I think you might as well give up on Enzo Macca, I really do. It looked like he was going to be really good after that Braithwaite fight. FW got him that Haye fight, he lost and went into obscurity. He's not had competitive rounds in a long time. Adamek has "stolen" his opponent Banks, Adamek's the top man at the weight, IBF champ, just been given the Ring belt, Adamek's the guy that Showtime want, the man with a Fight of the Year win over Cunningham and a looming rematch that American TV will lap up.

While Enzo's doing little in late replacement fights, interim/intercontinental, whatever fights, all he can really hope is for guys like Adamek to lose.


Re unifications. Can anyone see any of the more spoiled champions ion boxing being told to unify?

Also, what of fighters holding Ring belts, Lineal titles - if they're already The Man at their weight, should they be made to unify? A fighter can have one sanctioning body title and be the top champ, and only have to pay sanctioning fees for 1 belt, rather than 3 or 4.

And what incentive would there be for the sanctioning bodies to come together. All they want is ppl paying thier fee and fighting for their titles/interim belts. So long as they get their fee they don't care, do they?

[Neil Jones Jnr]

I think you might as well give up on Enzo Macca, I really do. It looked like he was going to be really good after that Braithwaite fight. FW got him that Haye fight, he lost and went into obscurity. He's not had competitive rounds in a long time. Adamek has "stolen" his opponent Banks, Adamek's the top man at the weight, IBF champ, just been given the Ring belt, Adamek's the guy that Showtime want, the man with a Fight of the Year win over Cunningham and a looming rematch that American TV will lap up.

While Enzo's doing little in late replacement fights, interim/intercontinental, whatever fights, all he can really hope is for guys like Adamek to lose.


Re unifications. Can anyone see any of the more spoiled champions ion boxing being told to unify?

Also, what of fighters holding Ring belts, Lineal titles - if they're already The Man at their weight, should they be made to unify? A fighter can have one sanctioning body title and be the top champ, and only have to pay sanctioning fees for 1 belt, rather than 3 or 4.

And what incentive would there be for the sanctioning bodies to come together. All they want is ppl paying thier fee and fighting for their titles/interim belts. So long as they get their fee they don't care, do they?

This is sadly true about the alphabet titles, at the end of the day they are a buisness and it makes bad buisness to have a fighter not wanting to pay his sanctioning fees, which is likley if he has to pay for other belts as well.

I try to stick to The Ring for the legitimate Champions but even that is flawed because they can't push any contenders by forcing to strip the Champion. Hopkins for instance when he had the light heavy title, he fought Winky who was a middle at a catchweiight and then Calzaghe a (super middle), if he'd got the decision against Calzaghe next would have been Pavlik, then probably Jones Jr. That would mean in about two years he hadn't fought a legit light heavy. It was the same when Cas was ring lightweight champ, he wouldn't fight Diaz or Campbell.

It's all flawed at this time really.

Cheers

N

[DavidPayne]

Neil,

On what basis is Maccarinelli the top Cruiserweight?

[Neil Jones Jnr]

Neil,

On what basis is Maccarinelli the top Cruiserweight?

Well mainly based on his performances, ie: Domingez and Braithwaite. He out classed both guys who are very good boxers. Just because Haye blasted him out doesn't mean he isn't a top guy, and at the time of the Haye fight all the British press were saying it was a fight between the two best in the division.

A year off hasn't really helped him, but still I think the Braithwaite fight showed Macca has excellent boxing skills, and we know he has the power. His chin has been questioned, but Braithwaite landed some bombs and Macca didn't wobble. Getting knocked out by Haye doesn't mean you have no chin, that punch would have knocked out any cruiser, and probably most heavys.

Adamek beat Cunningham, but who has Cunningham really beaten?

Macca beat Braithwaite just impressivley as Mcormeck did in my opinion.

I'd pick Enzo over Frag, Adamek, Banks, I think Cunningham is the most difficult fight out there for him in the Cruisers. Mcormeck too if he comes back

Cheers

N

[Adamj1987]

Heavy - Vitali
Cruiser - Adamek
LH - Dawson
SM - kessler
MW - Abraham
LM - Williams
WW - Cotto
LWW - Pacquiao
LW - Marquez
SF - Soto(only coz valero has moved up)
FW - John
SB - Juanma
BW - DArchinyan
SF - Donaire
Fly - Cauldran
Mini - Gonzalez

[DavidPayne]

Neil,

On what basis is Maccarinelli the top Cruiserweight?

Well mainly based on his performances, ie: Domingez and Braithwaite. He out classed both guys who are very good boxers. Just because Haye blasted him out doesn't mean he isn't a top guy, and at the time of the Haye fight all the British press were saying it was a fight between the two best in the division.

A year off hasn't really helped him, but still I think the Braithwaite fight showed Macca has excellent boxing skills, and we know he has the power. His chin has been questioned, but Braithwaite landed some bombs and Macca didn't wobble. Getting knocked out by Haye doesn't mean you have no chin, that punch would have knocked out any cruiser, and probably most heavys.

Adamek beat Cunningham, but who has Cunningham really beaten?

Macca beat Braithwaite just impressivley as Mcormeck did in my opinion.

I'd pick Enzo over Frag, Adamek, Banks, I think Cunningham is the most difficult fight out there for him in the Cruisers. Mcormeck too if he comes back

Cheers

N

Well you put the argument together but of the boxrec top25 Macca has beaten one fighter. And while statistics dont always tell the truth, thats a damning one.

Additionally, the Domiguez you speak of was far removed from his best, a best which saw Johnny Nelson decision him with some comfort.

I'd like to see Enzo fight someone at the top of his game, who isn't David Haye or at least the likes of Mormeck or Bell.

He's dying on the vine IMO.

But he doesn't have the merit to be no#1. Adameck has beaten Cunningham and Bell, both are better than anyone Macca has beaten and Adamek has some history, flimsy I admit at 175 to add to that.

[Neil Jones Jnr]

Neil,

On what basis is Maccarinelli the top Cruiserweight?

Well mainly based on his performances, ie: Domingez and Braithwaite. He out classed both guys who are very good boxers. Just because Haye blasted him out doesn't mean he isn't a top guy, and at the time of the Haye fight all the British press were saying it was a fight between the two best in the division.

A year off hasn't really helped him, but still I think the Braithwaite fight showed Macca has excellent boxing skills, and we know he has the power. His chin has been questioned, but Braithwaite landed some bombs and Macca didn't wobble. Getting knocked out by Haye doesn't mean you have no chin, that punch would have knocked out any cruiser, and probably most heavys.

Adamek beat Cunningham, but who has Cunningham really beaten?

Macca beat Braithwaite just impressivley as Mcormeck did in my opinion.

I'd pick Enzo over Frag, Adamek, Banks, I think Cunningham is the most difficult fight out there for him in the Cruisers. Mcormeck too if he comes back

Cheers

N

Well you put the argument together but of the boxrec top25 Macca has beaten one fighter. And while statistics dont always tell the truth, thats a damning one.

Additionally, the Domiguez you speak of was far removed from his best, a best which saw Johnny Nelson decision him with some comfort.

I'd like to see Enzo fight someone at the top of his game, who isn't David Haye or at least the likes of Mormeck or Bell.

He's dying on the vine IMO.

But he doesn't have the merit to be no#1. Adameck has beaten Cunningham and Bell, both are better than anyone Macca has beaten and Adamek has some history, flimsy I admit at 175 to add to that.

I'm not saying Enzo should be number one, I am saying that he could beat Adamek and all the Cruisers. Thats my opinion, same as I think Pavlik deserves to be the recognised champ but I do believe Abraham could beat him hence why I have him number one. I don't have a problem with Adamek being recofnised number, I just think Enzo is a better fighter and if given the op to fight will win.

Cheers

N

[doctorboxing]

Heavy - Vitali
Cruiser - Adamek
LH - Dawson
SM - kessler
MW - Abraham
LM - Williams
WW - Cotto
LWW - Pacquiao
LW - Marquez
SF - Soto(only coz valero has moved up)
FW - John
SB - Juanma
BW - DArchinyan
SF - Donaire
Fly - Cauldran
Mini - Gonzalez

Pacman best at a weight he has never fought at???

[Poncey]

Consistently competitive PPV cards is a bigger issue for me.

A world governing body responsible for all boxing and sub-divide similar to football (FIFA, UEFA, FA)

Then sort our the interim, champion and super duper champion mess of the likes of the WBC and WBA.

Then make the rankings logical for each organisation (perhaps borrow the IBO's laptop)

Then kill all but 2 of the title belts (I like the WBC and WBA for its legacy).

Then make the domestic scene logical (English and Celtic champs only can fight for British title) and only area champs can fight for the English title and so on.

That''ll do for now.

[clubberlang]

For me the top dogs are

Heavy - Vitali
Cruiser - Enzo
LH - Hopkins
SM - Kessler
MW - Pavlik
LM - Williams
WW - Mosley
LWW - Hatton
LW - Marquez
SF - Linares
FW - John
SB - Caballero
BW - Darchinyan
SF - Donaire
Fly - Calderon
Mini - Gonzalez

[Asterix]

Heavy - Vitali
Cruiser - Adamek
LH - Dawson
SM - kessler
MW - Abraham
LM - Williams
WW - Cotto
LWW - Pacquiao
LW - Marquez
SF - Soto(only coz valero has moved up)
FW - John
SB - Juanma
BW - DArchinyan
SF - Donaire
Fly - Cauldran
Mini - Gonzalez

My list would be pretty much the same. It would be amazing if each champion were forced to fight their number 2 or lose their place.
Vitali Klitschko vs Wlad Klitschko
Tomasz Adamek vs Steve Cunningham II
Bernard Hopkins vs Chad Dawson
Mikkel Kessler vs Lucian Bute
Kelly Pavlik vs Arthur Abraham
Paul Williams vs Vernon Forrest
Shane Mosley vs Miguel Cotto
Manny Pacquiao vs Ricky Hatton (Is happening!!!)
Juan Manuel Marquez vs Juan Diaz (Is happening!!!)
etc.

[Quixall]

Neil,

On what basis is Maccarinelli the top Cruiserweight?

Adamek is the number one cruiserweight IMO and by some margin aswell

[Poncey]

Neil,

On what basis is Maccarinelli the top Cruiserweight?

Adamek is the number one cruiserweight IMO and by some margin aswell

If Cunningham has steel instead of pillows in his fists, he would've lost that fight.

[tobyh5]

Enzo has only beaten one man who was ranked in the top ten as a cruiser at the time he fought him and that guy had lost two out of his previous three fights. Going further, I do not think he has even beaten one guy who was ranked in a consenus top 20 apart from that one instance.

I am not sure how that supplies any evidence that Enzo is anything like approaching genuine world class.

[Autobarn]

Neil,

On what basis is Maccarinelli the top Cruiserweight?

Well mainly based on his performances, ie: Domingez and Braithwaite. He out classed both guys who are very good boxers. Just because Haye blasted him out doesn't mean he isn't a top guy, and at the time of the Haye fight all the British press were saying it was a fight between the two best in the division.

A year off hasn't really helped him, but still I think the Braithwaite fight showed Macca has excellent boxing skills, and we know he has the power. His chin has been questioned, but Braithwaite landed some bombs and Macca didn't wobble. Getting knocked out by Haye doesn't mean you have no chin, that punch would have knocked out any cruiser, and probably most heavys.

Adamek beat Cunningham, but who has Cunningham really beaten?

Macca beat Braithwaite just impressivley as Mcormeck did in my opinion.

I'd pick Enzo over Frag, Adamek, Banks, I think Cunningham is the most difficult fight out there for him in the Cruisers. Mcormeck too if he comes back

Cheers

N

I think Cunningham's a top fighter. Here are the good fighters he's beaten: Kelvin Davis (former IBF champ), Guillermo Jones (future WBA champ), Sebastian Rothmann (hard bastard), Wlodarczyk, Marco Huck. At last half of those fights were away from home. He's a touhg, slick boxer, one of the most underrated around. He's like an orthodox Chad Dawson with a better chin.

I have Adamek as the top cruiser on the basis of beating Cunningham in a classic, high quality fight. Also TA's stopped former undisputed champ Bell, and he's been busy at cruiser as well, regular fights. Beating Jon Banks will add to a nice little run, on Friday. Risky but winnable. Hopefully another classic, Banks is dangerosu though I have a few doubts about him. Definitely a risky fight only a couple months after Cunningham.

[Poncey]

Beating Jon Banks will add to a nice little run, on Friday. Risky but winnable. Hopefully another classic, Banks is dangerosu though I have a few doubts about him. Definitely a risky fight only a couple months after Cunningham.

Really? I don't even have Banks in my top 5. Struggled against Rossito. But that might be a southpaw curse.

[Autobarn]

Beating Jon Banks will add to a nice little run, on Friday. Risky but winnable. Hopefully another classic, Banks is dangerosu though I have a few doubts about him. Definitely a risky fight only a couple months after Cunningham.

Really? I don't even have Banks in my top 5. Struggled against Rossito. But that might be a southpaw curse.

I don't have Banks in my cruiser top 10. He was falling to pieces v Rossito. However, he's an American puncher so that makes the package nice for Showtime. The big American has a chance to prove himself. An exciting showing and Adamek will be back on there. I get the feeling that Banks took the Rossito fight out of shape; that, plus his heavy hands and the size/youth he has on Adamek...makes it interesting. If Banks is useless we'll find out soon: I have a suspicion that Adamek will "drown him in the deep end," in about 7 or 8 rds. It seems a good first defence only 10 weeks aftre his last fight (the Pole's had about 6 weeks training only). It's certainly not a depth plumbing first defence that you would see the big 3 European promoters put on though ironically they stole the Banks fight from Macca/Warren!