Degale responds to Eubanks Comments on the Bunce Hour

[NRH]

Arguably DeGale's amateur achivement (winning Olympic gold) pisses over Chris' pro achievements (winning a part of a title and then sitting on it for fight after fight).

You seriously think that winning an olympic gold medal is better than being a 2 weight world champion?

I know what i'd rather be.

I would rather win the gold, in purely sporting terms, the WBO title is barely worth the memorandum it is given out on. Eubank devauled it a little also.

Yes he was tough. Yes he used to get hit on the chin, do a little dance and then fight back. Yes he nearly KO'd himself throwing a right at Malinga. But with all that said his title was meaningless, at every point in his career there were better title holders, and he never wanted to face them. What are you propsing next? WBU and IBO titles are better than the gold?

Well im a boxing fan. I know what i'd see as a greater accomplisment. People can bash the WBO belt all they want but the fact is it's recognized as 1 of the major 4 belts, the ones that matter.

I know if i won a WBO belt it would be the greatest night of my life. None of that my kid being born shit like that pussy Balboa

[champ4ever]

Trouble is we'll only get to see him in the ring on his debut for what 12 minutes? So i have to listen to this donut harp on about his medal and how he's so hard done by for weeks and months only to see him fight 12 minutes against a guy who i could probably last 4 rounds with?

that's part of the learning process of switching to amateur boxing to pro boxing, it'll be unfair to criticise degale straight away on this when many of the great boxers before him have also done the same.

let degale have his fun in the beginning, it's when it gets to 10-15 fights and so on thats when we can start to really moan, but not straight a bloody way..

[NRH]

Well im a boxing fan. I know what i'd see as a greater accomplisment. People can bash the WBO belt all they want but the fact is it's recognized as 1 of the major 4 belts, the ones that matter.

I know if i won a WBO belt it would be the greatest night of my life. None of that my kid being born shit like that pussy Balboa

Right, and i suppose an Olympic win would mean little more than the time you won the local raffle. Think laterally. Would you be proud of winning a title that meant virtually nothing, whilst also being #3 or #2 in your division. That is not desire, that is drift.

My only problem with DeGale is that he is dull to watch. If the money is offered then make the money, althoug try to do it discreetly!

No of course not but to me winning a major world title would mean more than winning the olympics. I grew up watching boxing not the fornicating olympics. I know it's a great honour to win a gold medal but i'd rather have the WBO title. I'd also rather have an FA Cup medal than an olympic gold, so what?

[NRH]

I am putting down Eubank's title reign. Consider that DeGale was the sole Gold winner in his weight class, he was #1 in that tournament at that weight. Chris was one of a few title holders in his division, he was arguably #3 or #4. His one sole chance at unification resulted in a draw. At no point in his title reign was Chris the number one in the world, not at middle, and not at super-middle.

Eubank made a lot of defences, with about a 1-5 ration of taking on true tests. I am putting down Eubank's title reign as a classic alphabet reign, I am putting it down to the proliferation of titles, Chris' lack of quality opposition all told and the WBO's status as little more than afterbirth, at that time. Bear in mind that the WBO practically made it impossible for one title holder, Riddick Bowe (who was close to the best fighter in the division at the time), to give up their title, they were clingier than a pregnant refugee.

Overall DeGale has the greater sporting win, Chris won a professional title and used it to make a lot of money, without a huge amount of consistent risk, ironic really when you consider the claims Chris made about fighters losing desire. DeGale won a world recognised title, Chris won a world title that was anything but.

I like Chris, he was tough, he could fight, but his title reign was mostly a money making exercise. Talk about epic fights with Benn and Watson all you like, Michael was a solid European level boxer who found his level versus McCallum, and Benn was erratic when Chris first beat him, then Benn worked with Tibbs for a while and was a much stiffer test in the second fight. At no point was Benn the number one in the division, either.

Can you not see the irony of Chris, who made a big money Sky deal that saw him take on guys with little or no chance (until the Wharton bout), criticising a lack of desire in other fighters? Like recognises like.

I see it like this. What's better winning the Championship or finishing 3rd or 4th in the Premiership?

Fact is Chris did it in the pro game, which to me seems far tougher than the amateurs.

[NRH]

Not sure about that. While I do not like amateur boxing in the Olympics you are put in with the best, sure DeGale got a smooth passage but he went into a tournament knowing he could face the worlds #1 boxer (in that tournament). Chris never wanted to take that step, not once did he seriously seem to chase the main men, the real main men.

As for the Championship thing, that used to be the Division One, which was once what is now the Premier League, which never used to exist. The Games is The Games. Tweaked yes, pissed aobut with yes, but still the pinnacle.

Still, you want to mangle metaphors, what is better? Winning the league by playing every time twice and getting the results needed to win? Or winning the league without playing your main rivals, which cannot happen, as football has a modicum of sense.

Anyway, I have said my piece, who do I prefer? Chris. Who has won something that will shine brightly down the years? DeGale.

How is it different that Degale could've had to fight the best? Mandatories make that possible too.

Anyway we're obviously going to have to agree to disagree, you think an olympic gold is a higher accolade than winning a world title, i think otherwise.

[champ4ever]

I am putting down Eubank's title reign. Consider that DeGale was the sole Gold winner in his weight class, he was #1 in that tournament at that weight. Chris was one of a few title holders in his division, he was arguably #3 or #4. His one sole chance at unification resulted in a draw. At no point in his title reign was Chris the number one in the world, not at middle, and not at super-middle.

let me break this down for you.

degale ended up the winner in the olympics, but he was never the number one in the world prior to that tournament, he was in the knockout stage, it's like portsmouth winning the fa cup, they won the cup, but they're not regarded the best in the england. degale, he won the olympics, but he still would'nt be favourite to do it over again if he had to right now because it's not like he dominated that weight division prior to the tournament, winning one tournament, when it's a knockout tournament should'nt instantly make you the best in the world, and it does'nt. if degale was a pro, he would be harassed to fight sutherland again because sutherland has proven time again that he is better, he's only lost one time out of four.

Eubank made a lot of defences, with about a 1-5 ration of taking on true tests. I am putting down Eubank's title reign as a classic alphabet reign, I am putting it down to the proliferation of titles, Chris' lack of quality opposition all told and the WBO's status as little more than afterbirth, at that time. Bear in mind that the WBO practically made it impossible for one title holder, Riddick Bowe (who was close to the best fighter in the division at the time), to give up their title, they were clingier than a pregnant refugee.

while degale can't make one defense of his gold medal.

Overall DeGale has the greater sporting win, Chris won a professional title and used it to make a lot of money, without a huge amount of consistent risk, ironic really when you consider the claims Chris made about fighters losing desire. DeGale won a world recognised title, Chris won a world title that was anything but.

I like Chris, he was tough, he could fight, but his title reign was mostly a money making exercise. Talk about epic fights with Benn and Watson all you like, Michael was a solid European level boxer who found his level versus McCallum, and Benn was erratic when Chris first beat him, then Benn worked with Tibbs for a while and was a much stiffer test in the second fight. At no point was Benn the number one in the division, either.

Can you not see the irony of Chris, who made a big money Sky deal that saw him take on guys with little or no chance (until the Wharton bout), criticising a lack of desire in other fighters? Like recognises like

like i said winning a title is one thing, but defending it is another. if degale was a world amateur champion that was beating everyone, and then won a gold, then yeah i would say he's the best amateur in the world, but he did'nt, while chris fought for a world title, he defended his world title, not once, but nearly 20 times.

[banjo]

I'm suprised K-G hasn't had his say on this thread

[tobyh5]

Winning an olympic gold is one heck of an accomplishment but when all is said and done, boxing is different to other sports. Other sports - athletics, swimming etc, it is the pinnacle of your sport but in boxing it isnt because there is amateur boxing and there is professional boxing.

100M sprint champ is the fastest man in the planet at that moment in time.
100 freestyle swimmer champ is the best 100m freestyle swimmer at that moment in time.
Javelin champ can probably thrown a javelin further than anyone else in the world at that moment in time.
Boxing gold medallist is not the best fighter of that weight at that moment in time. Not even close, probably not even in the top 100 or so

Amateur boxing, especially at the olympics is rubbish anyway. It is fencing with gloves except they do not bother to count half the punches anyway. The winner is supposed to be the guy who landed more punches on the target area, whether they are light taps or haymakers (which is a rubbish idea anyway). Except, the system is flawed and the winner often landed less punches!!!

So winning an Olympic Gold Medal as a boxer does not mean you are the best in the world at your chosen sport because you have not competed with the actual best fighters in the world PLUS you may not even be the best in the tournament but may have "won" bouts due to politics or because one guy sitting next to the ring is geriatric and didnt press a button in time for the other guy a couple of times.

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

Hey us Brits have something to be proud of. Apparently Audley is as great a boxer as Mike Tyson and Tyson is jealous of Aud's Gold medal

[tobyh5]

Hey us Brits have something to be proud of. Apparently Audley is as great a boxer as Mike Tyson and Tyson is jealous of Aud's Gold medal

I did not agree with the comment that the gold was worth more than Eubanks career and WBO title however that is an unfair comment. No one is suggesting that a gold is worth more than an undisputed heavyweight championship, not even I daresay the one who felt degale had a better accomplishment than Eubank

[champ4ever]

I am putting down Eubank's title reign. Consider that DeGale was the sole Gold winner in his weight class, he was #1 in that tournament at that weight. Chris was one of a few title holders in his division, he was arguably #3 or #4. His one sole chance at unification resulted in a draw. At no point in his title reign was Chris the number one in the world, not at middle, and not at super-middle.

let me break this down for you.

degale ended up the winner in the olympics, but he was never the number one in the world prior to that tournament, he was in the knockout stage, it's like portsmouth winning the fa cup, they won the cup, but they're not regarded the best in the england. degale, he won the olympics, but he still would'nt be favourite to do it over again if he had to right now because it's not like he dominated that weight division prior to the tournament, winning one tournament, when it's a knockout tournament should'nt instantly make you the best in the world, and it does'nt. if degale was a pro, he would be harassed to fight sutherland again because sutherland has proven time again that he is better, he's only lost one time out of four.

Eubank made a lot of defences, with about a 1-5 ration of taking on true tests. I am putting down Eubank's title reign as a classic alphabet reign, I am putting it down to the proliferation of titles, Chris' lack of quality opposition all told and the WBO's status as little more than afterbirth, at that time. Bear in mind that the WBO practically made it impossible for one title holder, Riddick Bowe (who was close to the best fighter in the division at the time), to give up their title, they were clingier than a pregnant refugee.

while degale can't make one defense of his gold medal.

Overall DeGale has the greater sporting win, Chris won a professional title and used it to make a lot of money, without a huge amount of consistent risk, ironic really when you consider the claims Chris made about fighters losing desire. DeGale won a world recognised title, Chris won a world title that was anything but.

I like Chris, he was tough, he could fight, but his title reign was mostly a money making exercise. Talk about epic fights with Benn and Watson all you like, Michael was a solid European level boxer who found his level versus McCallum, and Benn was erratic when Chris first beat him, then Benn worked with Tibbs for a while and was a much stiffer test in the second fight. At no point was Benn the number one in the division, either.

Can you not see the irony of Chris, who made a big money Sky deal that saw him take on guys with little or no chance (until the Wharton bout), criticising a lack of desire in other fighters? Like recognises like

like i said winning a title is one thing, but defending it is another. if degale was a world amateur champion that was beating everyone, and then won a gold, then yeah i would say he's the best amateur in the world, but he did'nt, while chris fought for a world title, he defended his world title, not once, but nearly 20 times.

Breaking it down. Looks like a waste of the quote function to me.

DeGale cannot defend his medal, but he could stick to the amateurs and aim for a second one. If he was in the same weight class he would be akin to the defending champion. Champion in the sense of the guy who won the top prize, not a mere title holder.

Chris defended his title many times, but was never the number one in his division, something that even you cannot claim for him, because you know it would be wrong.

Are you genuinely saying that winning a WBO title automatically makes you #1 on the world? So every current WBO title holder is the divisional #1, no, you know that is not the case. If you think this it is worse than I thought, and you will never quite understand the point I am trying to make.

Chris held a title, without ever becoming the main man, DeGale (for all your claims about the FA cup and amateur rankings) is The 2009 Gold Medal winner at the Games, there is not dispute on that claim. For me that made him the #1 in his division, he won the premier tournament. Chris never did anything comparable as a professional, therefore DeGale has a greater shout of having the better overall achivement. His win impacted the wider sporting world, Chris was a big fish in a small pond, and his title did not make him #1. You was banging on about the league format before and then switched the metaphor to a football knockout tournament.

DeGale climbed to the top of his division, then went into the Games and won his fights, he won the jackpot, the Premier title, whatever you want to call it, and it means a lot more than the WBO super-middleweight title that the WBO snatched away from the real contenders (the WBO decided to take a strange approach to their super-middleweight rankings. A magic trick was performed. Keep your eyes on the number one and two WBO contenders at that time – Juan Gimenez and Michele Mastrodonato respectively. Keeping watching them and, Abracadabra!, they were replaced by Eubank and Watson, who had yet to fight at the weight. Plus Gimenez and Mastrodonato disappeared from the Top Ten entirely) in order to help make Eubank-Watson II a title fight. It was a title that was gifted to the fight simply because the WBO were making good money here at the time. Chris then did little to boost the title.

degale did'nt climb to the top of his division prior to the olympic games, he was'nt expected to win the olympics for a reason, which is why he was an underdog, and you say that chris never fought the best when he was champion, well guess what degale never fought the best either, he never fought andrade, he never fought the best of the division as he got a weak draw, and luckily for him some of the top fighters including the favourite got knocked out of the competition before degale could fight him.

i give credit to degale, but if you're putting eubanks achievements down, then i can also claim flaws in degale's achievements aswell.

[DaveyH]

I think it's strange how things get twisted out of context, seriously, did DeGale ever suggest that what he achieved at the Olympics surpassed Eubanks' pro career? No he didn't, my take on his comment was that although Eubank had a solid professional career, he never achieved the ultimate "title" as an amateur. Now Degale has the chance to surpass Eubank as a pro, and if he does, he'll be a better pro with a Gold medal. Thats the whole point, if Degale takes this chance and does it right he could achieve more than Eubank ever did, but Eubank will never have that opportunity now. He can't fight for an Olympic Gold in 2012 but Degale could have a "world" title by then.

Anyway I think Eubank has a point and I hope this spurs DeGale on to do well. I think people disliked Degale before he even won the gold, simply because he's in the shadow of our last 2 Olympic "successes." Audley ended up being a national embarrasment after all the hype, Khan managed to rile the entire domestic boxing scene by saying he'd surpassed their level and declaring guys like Thaxton and Murray only wanted to fight him to "piggy back" on his famous name. Oh and then got knocked out in 54 seconds. I think people are automatically assuming Degale will go down the same path as one of these two so they are writing him off before he's even thrown a punch. It's tough on Degale but he'll have to earn the fans respect, whereas Khan and Audley were idolised from the start but then became unpopular.

As for disliking Degale because of these comments about money. I might be wrong but I always took them to mean that it'd take a bloody huge offer to make him turn pro and miss the chance of fighting at 2012 Olympics. The tactic obviously worked because he got a bloody huge offer, good business sense. Will the money affect how he performs in the ring? If there is any doubt surely all he'd have to do is take note of Audley and where that attitude got him. No one with any pride would want to end up a complete laughing stock, regardless of how much money was thrown at him!

[Spud]

I really do hope James makes it - it will be great for British Boxing - however despite being an Olympic Gold Medalist - he is making an awful lot of noise for someone who has yet to prove himself as a professional.

[jspain]

the one thing that sticks out for me (apart from the eubank stuff) is degale saying he is going to be a big star even before he has had his first pro fight. its a bit like running before he can walk. it would be alright saying that if he won his first few fights and looked impressive but i dont think he should be saying it before he starts. he just seems to rub alot of people up the wrong way. although he is getting people talking and interested in him (one way or the other) and that is his purpose i suppose.

it will be interesting to see what kind of reception he gets when he enters the ring on saturday night.

[jamesmcdonnell]

It is an interesting point that amateurs stars are at a disadvantage because signing pro makes them instant millionaires.
I think the likes of Haglar and Eubank for example had a mental edge through coming up the hard way, thats not to say they would not have had that emotional grit anyway.
Marvin did say though that it was hard to get out of bed when you are wearing silk PJ's!
I think financial success dimmed Hamed's ambition as well
There are obvious examples where it didn't hurt fighters though, ODLH springs to mind

Didn't to Ray Leonard much harm though did it?

[Collins2000]

case closed. guilty as charged .

how sad we want our rising stars to get beat without even throwing a punch yet.

sad sad sad.

no wonder Brit boxing is in trouble with fans like those hey.

So we should just blindly support anyone who is British? eff that. Im a boxing fan and i will like and dislike whoever i want regardless of nationality.

Well said.

[tonyevs]

How much of a ticket seller is DeGale?
He may have won an Olympic gold .. but nowadays that isn`t such a stamp of approval as before.

I`d be very surprised if anybody outside of us boxing anoraks had ever heard of him.

I`ll reserve my judgement untill I`ve actually seen him fight without the headguard.

[Spud]

I`ll reserve my judgement untill I`ve actually seen him fight without the headguard.

Exactly!!!

Problem is Degale should button up until he has proved himself too.

[oliverfennell]

Anyway, I have said my piece, who do I prefer? Chris. Who has won something that will shine brightly down the years? DeGale.

I agree with you about the sporting nature of the comparisons, but not that comment there. Example: ask any man on the street about Chris Eubank and, say, Chris Finnegan. Who will they remember more or know more about. So I think Eubank outshines DeGale, even if I accept DeGale won the more respected sporting achievement.

[oliverfennell]

I'm suprised K-G hasn't had his say on this thread

He's probably lying face-down in Patpong with a head wound.

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

Hey us Brits have something to be proud of. Apparently Audley is as great a boxer as Mike Tyson and Tyson is jealous of Aud's Gold medal

I did not agree with the comment that the gold was worth more than Eubanks career and WBO title however that is an unfair comment. No one is suggesting that a gold is worth more than an undisputed heavyweight championship, not even I daresay the one who felt degale had a better accomplishment than Eubank

I was joking but in all seriousness winning a gold medal doesn't make you even top10 in the world at your weight in boxing as Audley has proven. Because the top10 in the world are all Pro boxers not amateurs in the Olympics. Not that Degale was even an amateur given he was paid to box, which gave him an unfair advantage over boxers from other countries

Do we really think a 22yo Eubanks has any problem beating up Degales Olympic opposition? Do we think Degale beats Nigel Benn, I don't but lets see him prove his worth

And whats all the pretense Eubank was just a phony WBO belt holder, he had to take the belts from Benn and Watson and Benn would become WBC champ too, he beat WBC/IBF/WBO belt holders and a total of 4 champion at the end of the day and deserved the nod over Collins and Thompson past his prime

Now Eubanks isn't quite as accomplised as Toney/JonesJr from his era BUT lets not pretend Degale would be anything more than a punch bag for those men as he would for Eubanks who'd probably still spark him today

[Bard of Boxrec]

IMO Degale doesn't haver a lot going for him. Not very likeable, awful negative crowd-unfriendly style, and overvalues himself. That 'I expect xmillion deal' nonsense was laughable, this is a recession, boxing is back in a slump, and unlike Khan he never got much momentum after his Olympic success. Khan was lucky in that he was a young, appealing kid who got people talking during the Olympics because of his all action style in an otherwise disappointing Games for Britain. Degale was mixed in with other British hopefuls, some of whom were expected to do better, and somehow slapped his way to a Gold, all the while hardly coming across like a superstar in the making.

In the pros, I don't expect him to go very far. He won't have the pop to take him past Euro level at best, they'll find it tough to put on appealing fights for him, and his style just won't convert successfully to the pros.