CAL STATE ATH COMMISH SUBPEONAS LBC 38,USA BOXING,J.MILLMAN

[415BOXING]

Breaking news,the California State Athletic Commission has subpeonad Northern California Lbc 38,USA Boxing and Jim Millman.The documents the State Commission is asking NorCal LBC 38
president to show are


1.Records from Jan 2007-Feb 2009,relating to boxing events
2.Actual and sample contracts for all boxers who are members or affiliated with NorCal Association USA Boxing
3.Complete file of each boxer and participants affiliated with NorCal Association USA Boxing
4.Report and Results for each fight sceduled by NorCal Association USA Boxing
5.Report of ticket sales
6.Advertisments and Promotional manuals for each fight
7.List of licensees and paid fees
8.List and contact info for all officials,referees,judges,timekeepers and inspectors
9.Income tax returns for 2007 and 2008
10.Evaluations of all members affiliated with NorCal Association USA Boxing
11.Any and all documents related to NorCal Association USA Boxing
12.List of names and contact info for all officers/board members of NorCal Association USA Boxing
13.List of all corporate grants and other sources of income

[boxmel]

Sheesh - CSAC just doesn't get it - sounds like Dean Louhois' (sp) fingers are in the pie and (1) he doesn't like amateur boxing and (2) he hasn't a clue about the sport.

2.Actual and sample contracts for all boxers who are members or affiliated with NorCal Association USA Boxing

Amateur boxing doesn't have contracts.

3.Complete file of each boxer and participants affiliated with NorCal Association USA Boxing

Guess that means every boxer's record card and every non-athletes membership form - I guess.

4.Report and Results for each fight sceduled by NorCal Association USA Boxing

Hope the registration chair, or whoever, kept results of each show. There isn't any report unless there was an RSCH or injury stoppage.

5.Report of ticket sales

Hmmm - since when did we start having ticket sales for local shows?

6.Advertisments and Promotional manuals for each fight

Whatever this means.

7.List of licensees and paid fees

Guess this means a list of every athlete who has a passbook since a boxer doesn't get a passbook unless he or she has paid.

8.List and contact info for all officials,referees,judges,timekeepers and inspectors

Last time I looked we don't have inspectors in amateur boxing and "officials" are referees, judges, timekeepers.

10.Evaluations of all members affiliated with NorCal Association USA Boxing

What the heck does this mean? What kind of evaluations and by who?

The last time the CSAC stuck their noses in amateur boxing they wrecked enough havoc to make the sport unsafe - they were overturning referees' decisions on RSCs and RSCHs; they were handing out arbitrary restriction periods. It sucked. At that time they had received $90,000 form pro ticket sales and couldn't figure out how to dole it to the 4 LBCs in California so they kept it and used it to travel around the State and screw up amateur boxing.

[415BOXING]

I'm wondering what kind of authority the State Athletic Commission has when it comes to USA Boxing matters?All this came to be because Ramona Gatto and Robert Salinas of Gatto Boxing Club started complaining about the private shows some clubs put on.Their complaint was that these shows some how exploited these young boxers in terms of that the crowd was white and basically these kids were competing for the pleasure of the members of these private clubs,also they complained that parents and friends of the boxers were not allowed since these are private clubs.At one club they complained that members were betting on boxers.That's why this subpeona came down,two disgruntled alienated coaches with nothing better to do making trouble,with no solutions,I can guarentee that there will be less shows this year cause of these issues,we've averaged about 50-55 shows a year,but with all this drama,they're will not be near as many cause clubs are going to be under the microscope

[boxmel]

I'm wondering what kind of authority the State Athletic Commission has when it comes to USA Boxing matters?

Per their rules and regs, they are "in charge" of all boxing in the State, including amateur, but can give that oversight to another entity - in this case, USA Boxing.

All this came to be because Ramona Gatto and Robert Salinas of Gatto Boxing Club started complaining about the private shows some clubs put on.

I don't know Gatto, but I certainly do know Salinas - hasn't he put his kids in private shows over the years? He must be exacting revenge for a "robbery."

Their complaint was that these shows some how exploited these young boxers in terms of that the crowd was white

Sigh.

and basically these kids were competing for the pleasure of the members of these private clubs,

Ummm - yes - sooo????

also they complained that parents and friends of the boxers were not allowed since these are private clubs.

This is generally the case at any private show, unless they can seat non-members way in the back. That's the difference between a "private" and a "club" show.

At one club they complained that members were betting on boxers.

That's done at pro shows all the time. I really don't see the difference, especially since the boxers have no clue.

I can guarentee that there will be less shows this year cause of these issues,we've averaged about 50-55 shows a year,but with all this drama,they're will not be near as many cause clubs are going to be under the microscope

I don't think you'll see that much of a drop. This is the second time in the 22 years I've been around that the NorCal Assn. has come under the eye of the CSAC. I didn't see any loss of shows the first time.

[Slythex]

Well, look at the bright side of this (no seriously)...

Because CSAC brought USA Boxing into it, USA Boxing will be involved in paying the legal costs.

Here in PA, one of the few states with state oversight of amateur boxing, a few years back, there was also sorts of nasty legal stuff going on with our LBC and the state. It took a while to get USA Boxing involved from a legal standpoint, and prior to that the LBC had to pay a fair amount of legal fees out of their own pocket. Ultimately, it got resolved, but it was apparently pretty contentious. At one point, PA wasn't even allowing sanctioned events... strangely this only applied to Western PA, of course, not Philly.

That said, few additional comments/questions:
a- you guys don't charge for local shows? Most (not all) of our events are between $15-20 for admission. Granted, most of the money (after sanctioning fees to USA Boxing and the PA State Athletic Commission) goes to the hosting club as sort of a fundraiser.
b- don't 'clerks' also count as officials? :-) Can't leave off the paperwork people from the list of officials... especially when they need to deal with PA state forms...
c- we keep a 'report of boxing show' form or some comparable documentation for all shows, which goes to the chief of officials. I know, since I often take care of that particular piece of paperwork.

[boxmel]

Because CSAC brought USA Boxing into it, USA Boxing will be involved in paying the legal costs.

Not necessarily. They didn't pay the legal costs of the individuals in the other law suit.

a- you guys don't charge for local shows? Most (not all) of our events are between $15-20 for admission.

Speaking for SoCal, not always - depends on the club and most ask for $5; maybe some of the tournaments charge more.

Granted, most of the money (after sanctioning fees to USA Boxing and the PA State Athletic Commission) goes to the hosting club as sort of a fundraiser.

We don't pay any monies to the CSAC. Clubs do keep any monies made at the door and concessions at local shows.

b- don't 'clerks' also count as officials? Can't leave off the paperwork people from the list of officials... especially when they need to deal with PA state forms...

Clerks do not have to be (a) officials or (b) certified. And we don't deal with state forms.

c- we keep a 'report of boxing show' form or some comparable documentation for all shows, which goes to the chief of officials.

Our registration chair keeps a copy of all bout sheets with results. We don't do a formalized report.

[Dennis]

[quote="boxmel"]Clerks do not have to be (a) officials or (b) certified. And we don't deal with state forms.[quote]
Mel that is NOT CORRECT. Rule 101.4 requires clerks to be registered with USA Boxing as does Rule 107.3. Rule 107.3 also requires that clerks be certified.

[Dennis]

By the way, the CSAC subpoenas sound like BS. I hope this doesn't cost USA Boxing too much money as I do not want to see fees go up just because of crap like this.

[boxmel]

Thanks for the correction. Didn't used to be. :P

[Dennis]

Anyone overseeing any part of the boxing and ensuring that USA Boxing's rules are being followed must be registered and certified. Now do the people setting up the ring count? How about the janitorial staff? What about the person who runs to the ring to retrieve the gloves? It can go a little overboard. The rule does say glove stewards have to be registered and certified. It doesn't define a glove steward though. The rules aren't well written.

[Slythex]

Well, in theory, the glove table is run by someone trusted.
Not entirely sure what that means, but when I first got involved, I was the rookie official on glove duty. It got old sort of quickly, not because I minded the job per se, but since I wound up being relatively ignored. I found out (recently, actually) that there was sort of a political reason behind that. Basically, any officials who trained during the Golden Gloves didn't have their training count the year before, so I think they deliberately didn't train me to avoid that situation. All in all, everything worked out.

As for who brings the gloves from the ring to the glove table, they are typically the kids of various coaches from the LBC.

And one of the main ring setter-uppers is a fellow official, so we're good there :-) Mostly because he has a big truck.

Although... checking the ring is part of the referee's official job, no?

[boxmel]

Although... checking the ring is part of the referee's official job, no?

Yep - should be part of his pre-show/bout check.

[415BOXING]

Most shows here in San Francisco and the surrounding cities usually charge $20 at the door,some clubs farther from San Francisco charge $10-$15,the difference is that in San Francisco and surrounding cities the overhead is much greater than say in Sacramento or Santa Rosa