Fighters that could not be intimidated vs the intimidators.

[BoxBuzz]

The best in my opinion might be Tommy Hearns. Your reputation did not matter to him, your words did not matter to him. Your last fight with him did not matter to him. There was no way to get under his skin in a pre fight strategy. I'm Thinking Ali could not be moved by others in this same manner. Frazier was pretty good at not being able to be psyched with the exception of his greatest nemisis so I think he fits the catagory.

To be fair this is more of a contemporary dynamic in boxing right? Post Ali I'm thinking. Were fighters even attempting to do this in the "written media" age? Perhaps it's only in the television era where this began to even matter.

Come to think of it the fighters that attempt to use this approach seem for the most part to have it blow up in there faces. EG: Tyson once he got more mouthy (when he was quieter he was kicking ass and taking names...once he found his voice he seemed to fall flat). Mayorga, (self evident) Hamed....(basicaly quit after one failed effort, and with this action almost admitting that he was embarassed at his own mouthings.)

Have we covered this topic before? If so then just keep moving along......there is nothing to see here.

[HomicideHenry]

Jefferies. The man fought virtually ever big name there was on the scene. Sure, some hold it against him that he didn't fight guys like Jeanette or McVey, but, on the same token, the legendary Sam Langford used to bill himself as being "willing to take on all comers, except for Mr. Jefferies".

He defeated all the best white contenders of the day, and in his early fights he mixed it up with the legendary Peter Jackson who Jefferies had great respect for, often saying that nobody he fought since him threw a better straight right hand, and Hank Griffin, a veteran of well over 100 fights.

Then of course, he came out of retirement to fight Jack Johnson, despite his one sided thrashing of Burns and Ketchell and many others. He certainly wasnt afraid of no one.

[witherspoon]

Mike Tyson v Evander Holyfield, 1996 - Somebody mentioned rape?

A young Tyson v Lennox Lewis - I don't want to pick a winner on this thread, but no way is Lewis intimidated.

Who could turn Larry Holmes yellow, I wonder?

And how about my man Terrible Tim. Say what you will about his dedication and conditioning, but he took Larry Homes on after 15 pro fights and had the audacity to try to outpsyche Holmes during ref's instructions.

[dr_devious]

Barkley vs Hearns is a good example. I suppose both guys could be very intimidating, Barkley because of his ferociousness and street tough mentality. Tommy Hearns was simply devastating in the ring, although more of a gentleman outside the ring by all accounts.
I dont think any man could intimidate Iran Barkley, including Hearns.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Ali conceded he held fear of Liston & Foreman.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Mike Tyson v Evander Holyfield, 1996 - Somebody mentioned rape?

A young Tyson v Lennox Lewis - I don't want to pick a winner on this thread, but no way is Lewis intimidated.

Who could turn Larry Holmes yellow, I wonder?

And how about my man Terrible Tim. Say what you will about his dedication and conditioning, but he took Larry Homes on after 15 pro fights and had the audacity to try to outpsyche Holmes during ref's instructions.

Lewis on Tyson, late-80's: "At that time, I was thinking, I hope I don't have to fight this guy, 'cos he's like an animal."

[Expug]

Dick Tiger handed Ruben Hurricane Carter a trimming.
"Hurricane" probably had a few guys a little rattled before the opening bell.
Muscles , attitude , shaved head, fumanchu, the whole routine.
Tiger didnt give a sh.. he had Carter bouncing off the canvas.

[witherspoon]

Mike Tyson v Evander Holyfield, 1996 - Somebody mentioned rape?

A young Tyson v Lennox Lewis - I don't want to pick a winner on this thread, but no way is Lewis intimidated.

Who could turn Larry Holmes yellow, I wonder?

And how about my man Terrible Tim. Say what you will about his dedication and conditioning, but he took Larry Homes on after 15 pro fights and had the audacity to try to outpsyche Holmes during ref's instructions.

Lewis on Tyson, late-80's: "At that time, I was thinking, I hope I don't have to fight this guy, 'cos he's like an animal."

A little like Ali against Foreman and Liston on a much lesser scale - Ali would not have been human if he did not have a little fear of either man, but to rise above that and show his opponent no fear is something I rspect a great deal.
I never saw anything in Lewis to suggest that he would allow fear to affect his performance.

[HomicideHenry]

Mike Tyson v Evander Holyfield, 1996 - Somebody mentioned rape?

A young Tyson v Lennox Lewis - I don't want to pick a winner on this thread, but no way is Lewis intimidated.

Who could turn Larry Holmes yellow, I wonder?

And how about my man Terrible Tim. Say what you will about his dedication and conditioning, but he took Larry Homes on after 15 pro fights and had the audacity to try to outpsyche Holmes during ref's instructions.

Lewis on Tyson, late-80's: "At that time, I was thinking, I hope I don't have to fight this guy, 'cos he's like an animal."

A little like Ali against Foreman and Liston on a much lesser scale - Ali would not have been human if he did not have a little fear of either man, but to rise above that and show his opponent no fear is something I rspect a great deal.
I never saw anything in Lewis to suggest that he would allow fear to affect his performance.

I like how Cus D'Amato said it once: "someone tells me they're not afraid of anyone, they are either a liar or they are crazy, something is wrong with them."

[raylawpc]

Lewis on Tyson, late-80's: "At that time, I was thinking, I hope I don't have to fight this guy, 'cos he's like an animal."

A little like Ali against Foreman and Liston on a much lesser scale - Ali would not have been human if he did not have a little fear of either man, but to rise above that and show his opponent no fear is something I rspect a great deal.
I never saw anything in Lewis to suggest that he would allow fear to affect his performance.

I like how Cus D'Amato said it once: "someone tells me they're not afraid of anyone, they are either a liar or they are crazy, something is wrong with them."

That's because Cus was (a) crazy, and (b) afraid of everyone.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

To be fair this is more of a contemporary dynamic in boxing right? Post Ali I'm thinking. Were fighters even attempting to do this in the "written media" age? Perhaps it's only in the television era where this began to even matter.

-Dempsey and Jeffries before him greatly feared. Dempsey easily as much as Tyson since it was rumored he had Indian blood in him back when Indians were still feared as bloodthirsty savages.

Stanley Ketchel another, they didn't call him the Michigan Assassin for naught and my guess he was worse when drunk.

Come to think of it the fighters that attempt to use this approach seem for the most part to have it blow up in there faces. EG: Tyson once he got more mouthy (when he was quieter he was kicking ass and taking names...once he found his voice he seemed to fall flat).......
.......Have we covered this topic before? If so then just keep moving along......there is nothing to see here.

..........Think about it, no one dared to mock or try to get under Mike's skin because they DID NOT WANT MIKE ANY MADDER THAN HE ALREADY WAS!!.....Ali would ridicule him in advance and take Mike apart mentally months before the fight. No way Mike hold's it together after what Ali would put him through in terms of "Press Spectacle". I'd love to hear a credible counterpoint to this argument.

- Looks like you're all over the map on this, probably unaware of what you say.

When Tyson was with his pro team he was much more professional. He adopted the mad dog act after the prozac, King and Givens kicked in and his training camp was being run by clowns instead of the storied HOF team. It was self evident to all but the nattering ninnies that he was nowhere near the same fighter mentally or physically and had to act out for advantage which gave birth to the anyone who can stand up to a bully had him nonsense.

The way you chaps characterize him, it's a wonder he was ever a fighter much less a storied champ. I daresay most of you have no such mental problems requiring medication and came from reasonably stable family backgrounds. Most of you would go off the deep end if you woke up at age 21 as the undefeated, undisputed and most feared heavy champ in history in addition to being the richest boxer in history. Just let one of these vacuous young actors or actresses hit the big time as case in point. Endless arrests, drug rehab, breakups.

Jimmy Hendrix had a short prime with a horrible ending, but nobody holds it against him, saying he was nothing but a bum.

It's not an excuse of his behavior to acknowledge he's got some major disabilities. Quite striking that he was able to overcome them for a period with his adoptive family until they passed away. He could've taken more lessons by Cus to heart and knows that, but it don't mean he was a bum.

[BoxBuzz]

To be fair this is more of a contemporary dynamic in boxing right? Post Ali I'm thinking. Were fighters even attempting to do this in the "written media" age? Perhaps it's only in the television era where this began to even matter.

-Dempsey and Jeffries before him greatly feared. Dempsey easily as much as Tyson since it was rumored he had Indian blood in him back when Indians were still feared as bloodthirsty savages.

Stanley Ketchel another, they didn't call him the Michigan Assassin for naught and my guess he was worse when drunk.

Come to think of it the fighters that attempt to use this approach seem for the most part to have it blow up in there faces. EG: Tyson once he got more mouthy (when he was quieter he was kicking ass and taking names...once he found his voice he seemed to fall flat).......
.......Have we covered this topic before? If so then just keep moving along......there is nothing to see here.

..........Think about it, no one dared to mock or try to get under Mike's skin because they DID NOT WANT MIKE ANY MADDER THAN HE ALREADY WAS!!.....Ali would ridicule him in advance and take Mike apart mentally months before the fight. No way Mike hold's it together after what Ali would put him through in terms of "Press Spectacle". I'd love to hear a credible counterpoint to this argument.

- Looks like you're all over the map on this, probably unaware of what you say.

When Tyson was with his pro team he was much more professional. He adopted the mad dog act after the prozac, King and Givens kicked in and his training camp was being run by clowns instead of the storied HOF team. It was self evident to all but the nattering ninnies that he was nowhere near the same fighter mentally or physically and had to act out for advantage which gave birth to the anyone who can stand up to a bully had him nonsense.

The way you chaps characterize him, it's a wonder he was ever a fighter much less a storied champ. I daresay most of you have no such mental problems requiring medication and came from reasonably stable family backgrounds. Most of you would go off the deep end if you woke up at age 21 as the undefeated, undisputed and most feared heavy champ in history in addition to being the richest boxer in history. Just let one of these vacuous young actors or actresses hit the big time as case in point. Endless arrests, drug rehab, breakups.

Jimmy Hendrix had a short prime with a horrible ending, but nobody holds it against him, saying he was nothing but a bum.

It's not an excuse of his behavior to acknowledge he's got some major disabilities. Quite striking that he was able to overcome them for a period with his adoptive family until they passed away. He could've taken more lessons by Cus to heart and knows that, but it don't mean he was a bum.

Poppycock BRR my good man! This chap is quite aware of that which he speaks, AND I'm a lover of travel....so all over the map is more oft' than not, my focused intent!
Now to your absuertion.... (word I just made up out of thin air today....short for absurd assertion...look for it in next year's edition of the big Webster.)
Mike was never truly tested in the area of "media war of the words" until as you say, "his adoptive family passed away". So though your counterpoint may perhaps be salient, you can not discount the credibility of my equally measured initial pitch on this subject. Kindly keep your dismissive barbs to others less deserving of honor and respect. Like that fella Collins2000 for example.

[jaclem2]

..nobody..not even whole towns could intimidate Jack Johnson - far from it..he smiled at his opponents and grinned at the crowd when many of them had lynching on their minds.

aaron pryor intimidated some of the warm bodies he fought with that silly ass glove pointing and yelling hawk time but not when he hit the big time. he couldn't intimidate arguello even in the rematch after winning the first one with the help of kickipoo joy juice.

[witherspoon]

..nobody..not even whole towns could intimidate Jack Johnson - far from it..he smiled at his opponents and grinned at the crowd when many of them had lynching on their minds.

Great pick
How the hell one man had the guts to stand up in front of 22000 people, most of them screaming 'kill the person', with a band playing 'all coons look alike', i don't know.
And like that was not enough, he beat the shit out of the man they were all rooting for.

[witherspoon]

I typed ni**er and it was reverted to 'Jungle Bunny'?
Is that less offensive?

[BoxBuzz]

..nobody..not even whole towns could intimidate Jack Johnson - far from it..he smiled at his opponents and grinned at the crowd when many of them had lynching on their minds.

aaron pryor intimidated some of the warm bodies he fought with that silly ass glove pointing and yelling hawk time but not when he hit the big time. he couldn't intimidate arguello even in the rematch after winning the first one with the help of kickipoo joy juice.

After some reflection....I believe we have a winner.

[jmc617]

Dick Tiger handed Ruben Hurricane Carter a trimming.
"Hurricane" probably had a few guys a little rattled before the opening bell.
Muscles , attitude , shaved head, fumanchu, the whole routine.
Tiger didnt give a sh.. he had Carter bouncing off the canvas.

My uncle told me that he used to frequent a few of the same bars as Reuben and he would be very quiet wearing vests to show off his big biceps and purposely look to stare people down. He was one menacing looking dude.

[jmc617]

LoL


I like how Cus D'Amato said it once: "someone tells me they're not afraid of anyone, they are either a liar or they are crazy, something is wrong with them."[/quote]

That's because Cus was (a) crazy, and (b) afraid of everyone. [/quote]

[observer1]

The Tyson compared to the 86 version, to the 90 version, and the 97+ Version are like 3 different personalities Tyson had.

As things went wrong for him at an alarming rate, like many people he imploded. Remember, he was not a retiring Legend facing these problems. He was HW Champion of the world, at a very very young age of 23-25 when things really went chaotic, be it the new pointless and dumb lifestyle, to being robbed of his money by Wife, Incident with his Wife's mother, being practically taken as a Tool by Don King etc.

Most Boxers don't experience half of what Tyson went through, yet Tyson experienced it all at once, at a young age. Sure at the end of the day Tyson should be held responsible for his poor lifestyle and lack of preparation for bouts. But he is at least an example to athletes and people in general what happens to a successful person when you chase women, Money, Drugs and Alcohol.

[Goodnight, Irene]

"...Most Boxers don't experience half of what Tyson went through..." - Observer

Not very observant of boxing history, I see. This is utter fantasy. Have you even a clue the hardship endured by --- literally --- countless fighters through history? How about depression-era fighters? How about turn-of-the-century fighters? Blacks from that (& other) eras? There's almost literally an endless stream of boxers who endured much, much worse than Tyson --- & here's the kicker --- most did so without a scintilla of the luxury, sloth & excess Tyson enjoyed in return for his, "uniquely-tortured existence."

That said, I guess because you didn't live through (or close to) the times of those many men, & they don't make the headlines ala Tyson, that part of history (not so much a, "part" as almost the whole damn thing) miraculously didn't happen, & we are left with skewered nonsense such as, "Most boxers don't experience half of what Tyson went through..."

This isn't revisionism. This isn't even excuse-mongering for Tyson. It's just pure ignorance of the sport's history, & the history of the men who comprise it

[observer1]

"...Most Boxers don't experience half of what Tyson went through..." - Observer

Not very observant of boxing history, I see. This is utter fantasy. Have you even a clue the hardship endured by --- literally --- countless fighters through history? How about depression-era fighters? How about turn-of-the-century fighters? Blacks from that (& other) eras? There's almost literally an endless stream of boxers who endured much, much worse than Tyson --- & here's the kicker --- most did so without a scintilla of the luxury, sloth & excess Tyson enjoyed in return for his, "uniquely-tortured existence."

That said, I guess because you didn't live through (or close to) the times of those many men, & they don't make the headlines ala Tyson, that part of history (not so much a, "part" as almost the whole damn thing) miraculously didn't happen, & we are left with skewered nonsense such as, "Most boxers don't experience half of what Tyson went through..."

This isn't revisionism. This isn't even excuse-mongering for Tyson. It's just pure ignorance of the sport's history, & the history of the men who comprise it

You're right, there have been athletes in the past who have had hardships far worse than Tyson. But i feel that should not detract the ridiculous nature of events that occured in Tysons career

[Goodnight, Irene]

No one's disputing that, mate. Where you & I diverge on our paths of thinking is that Tyson's run of bad luck is unique in boxing. You think it is, I think it isn't. I also think it's worth noting more than a touch of that bad run was his own doing, & he received more money, glamour & joy in kind than so many others, before or since (especially before).

In short, I cry no tears for Mike Tyson.

[jmc617]

B R E L A N D

[witherspoon]

Lots of people close to Duran say that he was intimidated by Tommy Hearns.

EDIT : make that Emmanuel Steward and Durans trainer said that he was intimidated.

[Adamj1987]

douglas - tyson
holyfield - tyson
lewis - tyson