Classic American West Coast Boxing

[dagosd2000]

For you Rog.
Chavela Vargas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvUwn7may5Q
"Paloma Negra"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rvt4SW-2P4
"En El Ultimo Trago"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIMH4k2fJCs
"Que Te Vaya Bonito"

Thanks Frank
Talk about a lady with soul.
I hope one day I can sit out on my porch in Jiquilpan at night and watch the fire flies and think of Amanda dancing in Spain. I'll have my ultimo trago,and then like that, I'll fall to the ground and go back to the stars.

[kikibalt]

For you Rog.
Chavela Vargas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvUwn7may5Q
"Paloma Negra"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rvt4SW-2P4
"En El Ultimo Trago"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIMH4k2fJCs
"Que Te Vaya Bonito"

Thanks Frank
Talk about a lady with soul.
I hope one day I can sit out on my porch in Jiquilpan at night and watch the fire flies and think of Amanda dancing in Spain. I'll have my ultimo trago,and then like that, I'll fall to the graound and go back to the stars.

Rog...I have always like Chavela Vargas, she like Jose Alfredo were not great voices but, both were great stylist, who sang from the heart. One trago on Chavela....

[kikibalt]

Chavela Vargas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFD-HxPpP_U
"La LLorona"

[Dongee]

Chucho Martinez Gil

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KRJ1MK0Mgw
"Dos Arbolitos"

Christ Frank
My wife came in while I was listening to this. She was smiling. Me, the big sentimental slob, starts getting weepy.

Saw and heard Chucho back in the late 1940s at the L.A. Orpheum Theater. I was both pleased and surprised when he sang "Don't Take Your Love From Me" in perfect English and then noticed he only had one arm! I never learned how he lost the other limb.

hap navarro

[dagosd2000]

This gentleman's name is Alberto Pantoja. He has a little shop in the old Macarena section of Seville. He makes guitars by hand. One a month. 5 to 10 thousand dollars for each guitar. The Trio De Los Panchos was one of his clients. He'll live to be a hundred.

[dagosd2000]

VICENTE

When Vicente Fernandez was starting to get on a role with his career,me and the wife saw him in a little club in Tijuana called "Los Flamingos." It was on the right hand side of the road that wound its way towards Rosarito Beach. At the time "Los Flamingos' was pretty popular. Any Mexican entertainer with a name usually performed there. Not a huge place inside,but cozy enough where the performer felt close to his audience.

Vicente Fernandez was going to be a huge star someday. You could tell. His voice was almost operatic. There wasn't a stage inside. Vicente sang on the floor backed with Mariachis. He was a handsome dude with a big mustache and a great smile. He sang all his hit songs at the time. My favorite was El Ley Del Monte.

As is the custom in Mexico when some artist like Vicente is singing at a small club,the ladies lined up to get a kiss from him as he sang. Of course for Vicente,the line of females went almost out the door. I remember one incident that night that never left me. Just as the line of ladies was dwindling down to a few,I noticed a somewhat older gal, who was overweight and dressed plainly, get up from her table and run into the back of what was left of the line. A rent a cop pulled her back. Vicente saw this. Like a real gentlemean,Vicente walked around of what was left of the ladies standing, and gave this gal ,who'd been jerked aside by the rent a cop, a kiss and an embrace. The audience ,I could feel,wanted to stand up.

Later in the evening,some friends of ours who were at his table,invited my wife and I to sit with them. After the performance,we went back stage and everyone talked. Vicente,realizing that I was an American, tried his best to talk to me in English. I have a photograph autographed by him. I wouldn't part with it for anything.

[kikibalt]

Seen the Dandys at the Flamingo in T.J, way back when we were all young....

[dagosd2000]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX0uaEQ7krw

Gema

Los Dandy's

[dagosd2000]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNoALoArr-Q

La Ley del Monte

Vicente Fernandez

[Bobbin & Weavin]

Michele is a beautiful person. As soon as she seen us last night she sat us at a VIP table...

Of course she sat you at the VIP table she knows good people when she sees them, good boxing people. I am so jealous of you guys down in SoCal you still have a boxing community that you see the guys; here in NorCal we have nothing, really it's damn sad. We never did have what you had down there but this area was a pretty good "fight town" but now it's pretty much down to one lunch a month and one dinner a year which are scantly attended. Maybe that's why I am so addicted to this thread, it's when I feel happiest when I reading all of the great posts from you guys and you look around my little office at my house and I'm surrounded by stacks of Ring Mags, and old Referee Mags. Maybe I can talk my family into moving to SoCal!
Thanks for letting me vent!
Bobbin & Weavin
Bruce

Bruce:

To climb out of that mood the current state of boxing in NorCal places you into... you might want to try what all of us who extoll the fight scene in the southland do.......we simply think back to the days that were and try to enjoy the best of whatever is served up to us here today, slight as it may be in comparison.

Your area has a wealth of great boxing lore. Think of the number of champions that the north produced; and of the early days when fight promotions were staged a step or two ahead of the authorities which were quick to board a barge or storm a barn to stop a prizefight.....Colma, Benicia, Martinez, and in modern times boxing at a man-made Treasure Island (matching the south's first "island" fight staged on Catalina, in 1935.} Look into the archives of boxing as it was held in nearby Vallejo, San Mateo, Santa Rosa. San Jose, San Rafael.

Our first ever Olympic Games boxing champ was from the north.....Al Young (1904) and he became one of the finest friends the game ever had, promoting in his cracker allegedly Hall continually up until 1940. I don't think the southland ever enjoyed the neighborhood rivalries that were commonplace in the San Francisco area......North Beach, Butchertown, Barbary Coast, etc.

The south had to dip into the wealth of talent across the border to really develop as a fight center; the north did it best by developing its own attractions, home growns who either excelled in baseball or beak-busting.

Think about it.

hap navarro[/quote]

You're going to defer to who? Rog[/quote]

Hap,
Thanks so much, you are so right there is a rich history of boxing up here and I have to start appriciating it a little more than I do I just feel like the lone soldier up here at times. Your well put words have opened my eyes a little wider and I will take your advise, I would be a fool not to. Thanks again Hap.
And Rog you are so right...defer my foot!

Bruce

[kikibalt]

Rodolfo Gonzalez & Kevin Morgan

[Bobbin & Weavin]

Michele is a beautiful person. As soon as she seen us last night she sat us at a VIP table...

Of course she sat you at the VIP table she knows good people when she sees them, good boxing people. I am so jealous of you guys down in SoCal you still have a boxing community that you see the guys; here in NorCal we have nothing, really it's damn sad. We never did have what you had down there but this area was a pretty good "fight town" but now it's pretty much down to one lunch a month and one dinner a year which are scantly attended. Maybe that's why I am so addicted to this thread, it's when I feel happiest when I reading all of the great posts from you guys and you look around my little office at my house and I'm surrounded by stacks of Ring Mags, and old Referee Mags. Maybe I can talk my family into moving to SoCal!
Thanks for letting me vent!
Bobbin & Weavin
Bruce

Bruce, just pick up your tooth brush and hitchhike down to L.A., you can move in with Randy, or one of the guys, you can't move in with me as there is no more room under the bridge.

How do ya like that Randy, Frank just pawned me off on you! He must know how much I eat, not a lightweight anymore! But I think Hap has convinced me that I don't live in the boxing free zone that I was complaining about after all so you're off the hook.
By the way Randy I have located an article in Ring Magazine confirming one of your fights on the undercard of the Miguel Meza Vs. Manuel Lujan card in S.D. Says you and Nacho Cota, drew in four. I have located several articles the Mike Quarry Vs. Tom Bethea fight but none of the article list the prelims. I'll keep trying. By the way I have an extra copy of the Ring Magazine with the article if you don't have one PM me your address and I'll mail it to you.
Bruce

[Rick Farris]

Frankie Durate vs Albert Davila

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEHrJpVjrWk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL_zhmonucE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFqpEsSjPMU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLnAZ6_4BYA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5utFqqAmmx8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrj7lgZAND8

Sometimes a picture tells the best story . . .

When I saw Frank had posted the link to the Duarte vs. Davila II war, I remembered the day it was fought and how I recorded it on VHS from the CBS broadcast. I carried that tape thru my travels, along with many others that I believed defined what I consider to be legendary West Coast prizefighting of the day.

I watched this one over and over, in slow motion, stop-action, dissecting every single blow. I wanted to see if certain shots really landed, or appeared to have been more damamging than they actually were. This fight was a great one to break down in that manner. Another was Roberto Duran's beat down of Davey Moore. Replay these bouts slowly and watch closely, and you'll see punches that did far more damage than a split-second hint you got when you first watched in real time.

As I mentioned, I carried this fight tape with me. Perhaps it was a little personal pride for two guys that came up in my era, in the same place that I did. Like me, these guys were Junior Golden Glovers. They had the same Gold & Blue satin Jr. GG's Championship jacket that I had, as does the Baltazar's, the Quarry's, the Sandoval's, etc.

Whenever I'd have a visitor, one that was a bit over the top about the tremendous action he saw in a Roy Jones fight, I'd pull out my Duate-Davila tape and sit them down. This tape allowed me to be "speechless", I didn't have to say a word, but I was going to show him what we considered great, but almost common in the City of Angels. These were L.A. guys, specifically, Venice for Frankie Duarte (he actually lived in nearby Rancho Park and attended Venice High School) and Pomona for Albert Davila.

As Frank mentioned, Duarte was a Teamsters boy, and Louie J. his chief coach. As Jr. Glover, Albert Davila fought out of the Sacred Heart Boys Club in Pomona. Tony Cerda was his coach. I can remember Frankie Baltazar Jr. in the '68 JR. Gloves championship fight, matched with Albert's brother Armando in the finals. We were all that close, yet not always personally so. Over time you get to know the guys you see every couple weeks at the fights. We'd travel together, we'd lodge together, we'd fight each other, sometimes more than once. I always liked the travel, sometimes six of us packed into the back seat of a car, a few more up front with the driver. The driver's were the coaches, guys like Frank.

The coaches are the true heros of boxing. They usually develop talent, often right out of diapers, they teach them, drive them here and there, fight to get them the best matches, the best sparring, whatever edge they can provide. Then the kid turns pro, somebody with a few bucks approaches them, feeds them a line and the years of work put in by the coach fills somebody else's bank account. This happens every single day of the week. It's almost like tradition in boxing.

In '2000, I was living in Phoenix and working with boxers. There were two pretty hot prelim kids in our stable, and I worked closely with one that I never knew to lose. He was 18, had main event skills yet had only fought 4's and a six. His name was Homero Sierra, and his Boxrec stats show his good potential. This kid would have done great in L.A. when I was fighting. He just did everything right, had those instincts, the confidence, the toughness. We were going to take him to Las Vegas, a card at the "Orleans". We had made all the travel arrangements, lodging for the fighter, his manager/trainer, myself. We would drive from Phoenix. Goosen brother-in-law, Tom Brown, was the matchmaker. I hoped Richard would get this kid out of Phoenix, bring him to L.A. and get into the mainstream. Phoenix is a great place for boxers to be FROM. A lot of great promise has dried up in that desert.

We all meet at the gym. As Rambo (the boxer's ring name) and I wait in the gym office for his manager, I remember that I had left my VHS copy of the Duarte-Davila bout on the shelf, above the TV in the office. I used to play it to kids who were interested in seeing how L.A. bantam's fought a few years back. Of course, I'd intimate that "all" L.A. guys fought like this. That we all were just naturally blessed with Davila's blinding boxing skills, and Frankie's power and tenacity were required before the California Commission would even consider granting us a license.

I'd tell the kids, "El Huero" and "Tweety" are just typical of Los Angles boxers in the eighties. However, if you think they are good, you should have seen what we had in the 60's & 70's. And if we thought those were good, you should have seen what L.A. had in the 40's and 50's. I'd look them in the eye and in my most serious voice tell them, "and we don't even want to consider how tough the fighters were before that!"

I believe the best way to get thru to a kid is to make a strong first impression. Duarte vs. Davila II made such an impression, and supported my BS claim.

I play the tape for Rambo. In the second round, manager Richard Rodriguez arrives, sees the action and sits down without speaking. Rodriguez knows all about L.A. fighters, fighting both amateur and pro bouts at the Olympic in the late 50's & early 60's, as well as the L.A. boys who came to Phoenix. Rodriguez met them in prelims at Phoenix's Madison Square Garden, or in sparring sessions at his own Madison Gym. By the bell opening round three, both boxer and manager had moved closer to the TV, they are now leaning forward in their chairs.

"Duarte goes down!" A short, picture-perfect hook sits "El Huero" on the canvas. Rodriguez and Rambo are suddenly on their feet. "Did you see that!", Rambo shouts. Duarte's face said it all, he shakes his head, pounds the canvas with his glove and climbs to his feet. Duarte rises from the canvas, Davila gets cut, and we know the rest. Everytime I see the fight, I still get excited, the energy does wonders for the spirit of a true boxing personality.

As I looked around the room, after the fight had been stopped, I notice that another half dozen people had come in and were standing watching the screen. All were going overboard about the great action. One of the less knowledgable observers, a Roy Jone's die-hard, had to admit, "We'll never see Roy in one like that."

Roy Jones ain't from L.A.


-Rick Farris

[Rick Farris]

Don't get me started, Frankie, because I am old as the hills and enjoyed a period in L.A. that some of our younger friends missed. There was a time when the younger set was connected socially and at times politically through a group of "Social Clubs United", some of the larger ones being in East L.A.

I can remember a few, like Club Aristo and Club S.A.S, which stood for "Seamos Amigos Siempre", (Let's be Friends Always), and a really strong one called "Alma Joven" (Young Soul). The highlight of the social year was a "Black and White Ball" (formal) held at the old L.A. Country Club. Joe Garcia promoted that dance to perfection for years.

hap navarro

Hap
You ought to write a book

There are many fine historians who might do a better job, my friend, so I will defer to them.

Now that I have your attention: I lived in the Fletcher Hills area of San Diego for 33 years before moving to Santa Maria. We had a store and art gallery in El Cajon's Parkway Plaza. Did you ever shop there? Whereabouts is your home in that wonderful city of San Diego?

Respectfully hap navarro

Nobody can tell the story like Hap Navarro. How lucky for us that he shares it here. Regardless of how Hap chooses to share the true history of West Coast boxing, in a book, film, or right here, we are the big winners. In an odd way, when we learn this history, which relates to our history, some things start to make a little more sense, at least to me. As the pieces to the puzzle fall into place, everything is clearer.

[dagosd2000]

Muhammad Ali

[Rick Farris]

Rodolfo "Gato" Gonzalez, Frankie Baltazar & Kevin Morgan, Morgan is the son of L.C. Morgan
El Monte amateur boxing show

Rick
Please,somone get the low down on L.C. Morgan. His career fascinates me. A black fighter from Mississippi fighting most of his career in small arenas in Mexico. Unparralled! Rog

Roger . . .

I know a lot about the career of L.C. Morgan and have heard a lot of stories about the man. However, I really have no personal stories to share. I do remember seeing him working as an amateur coach, at the Teamsters Gym on fight night, when he'd bring his son Kevin, who was about my age, and a few other junior amateurs he trained.

My first memory of L.C. came in 1967. It was summer time and there was a junior amateur show in Santa Ana and I was supposed to fight Claude Durden, whom I'd beaten in the Jr. GG's the previous month. Frank's cousin was the promoter. Dwight Hawkins had brought a team and was talking with Johnnie Flores in the dressing room. They were discussing an up coming fight in Tijuana. The bout was a rematch between L.C. Morgan and Jose Napoles, whom Morgan had stopped on a cut previously in Mexico.

Hawkins and Flores were both going to attend this fight. They were unusually impressed with Napoles, the future great welter champ, who was fighting as a 140 pounder at the time. Listening to Flores, Hawkins and Hal Benson go on about Napoles, made me want to go, however, I was just a kid so I wasn't going anywhere.

Shortly afterwards, I would get a full report on the Napoles-L.C. Morgan rematch from Flores. L.C. wasn't in this one, and would be stopped. Napoles was on a direct path to the title and less than two years later he'd take over top spot in the welter division for quite awhile.

I wish he were around today. I'd love to talk with L.C. Morgan, maybe hear a few stories about his years in Mexico. Something we could leave for history.

-Rick Farris

[dagosd2000]

NO ENCORE

When Muhammad Ali was in San Diego training for the Norton fight they could have charged admission. I don't think Ali had ever been to San Diego before. I think he looked at San Diego as kind of a hick town,especially when it was a venue for one of his fights. I'm sure he looked at Ken Norton the same way.

Ali is the first and last fighter I've ever seen training for a fight with a microphone in his hand. He enjoyed talking on that microphone more than sparring. Some days he wouldn't even put on the gloves. He always had an excuse.
"My hands are sore."
Or.
"I've got a slight cold."

Ali would walk back and forth with that mike entertaining the crowd with stories of his past,recite poetry,and tell us how easy he was going to wup "Ken Fartin".

This is what I think the great Ali didn't understand about San Diego. This town really is lame. We wouldn't recognize greatness if greatness was put in our contact lenses. And even if that happened,we wouldn't care.

I don't want to include myself with most of the other "blind folk" in this burg,but I know what I'm talking about. Look,I like to go to the concert hall once in a while. This town wouldn't even have a symphony if it wasn't for two women,Helen Copley and Joan Kroc. I've been attending classical music concerts practically all my life in this village. I've never once seen a reputable artist play an encore. When they're done playin',the curtain closes. Why? Because they knew the audience wasn't into it.

I'll never forget after Ali got his jaw broken by Ken Fartin'. All that week Ali had come dressed for his workouts wearing a robe that was given to him by Elvis. On the back was inscribed "The People's Champ."

When Ali left the ring with his swollen face,I saw that he hadput on his robe inside out . Just like Norton had done to him. Welcome to San Diego.

[Rick Farris]

NO ENCORE

When Muhammad Ali was in San Diego training for the Norton fight they could have charged admission. I don't think Ali had ever been to San Diego before. I think he looked at San Diego as kind of a hick town,especially when it was a venue for one of his fights. I'm sure he looked at Ken Norton the same way.

Ali is the first and last fighter I've ever seen training for a fight with a microphone in his hand. He enjoyed talking on that microphone more than sparring. Some days he wouldn't even put on the gloves. He always had an excuse.
"My hands are sore."
Or.
"I've got a slight cold."

Ali would walk back and forth with that mike entertaining the crowd with stories of his past,recite poetry,and tell us how easy he was going to wup "Ken Fartin".

This is what I think the great Ali didn't understand about San Diego. This town really is lame. We wouldn't recognize greatness if greatness was put in our contact lenses. And even if that happened,we wouldn't care.

I don't want to include myself with most of the other "blind folk" in this burg,but I know what I'm talking about. Look,I like to go to the concert hall once in a while. This town wouldn't even have a symphony if it wasn't for two women,Helen Copley and Joan Kroc. I've been attending classical music concerts practically all my life in this village. I've never once seen a reputable artist play an encore. When they're done playin',the curtain closes. Why? Because they knew the audience wasn't into it.

I'll never forget after Ali got his jaw broken by Ken Fartin'. All that week Ali had come dressed for his workouts wearing a robe that was given to him by Elvis. On the back was inscribed "The People's Champ."

When Ali left the ring with his swollen face,I saw that he hadput on his robe inside out . Just like Norton had done to him. Welcome to San Diego.

Roger . . . Ali had been in San Diego at least once before. As a young Cassius Clay prepared for his pro debut, his earliest management team, a corporation of Louisville businessmen that called themselves, "Favershim Inc." hired Archie Moore to train the young Olympic gold medalist. Clay was sent to San Diego to train under Archie but there was an immediate "bad chemistry". Moore complained that Clay was to wild and undisciplined, not coachable or willing to toe the mark. When Cassius returned to Louisville, Moore announced, "That boy needs a good whooping. But I don't know who's going to give it to him." Cassius would then relocate to Miami, and work under promoter Chris Dundee's brother, Angelo. A few years later, Moore would fight Cassius Clay at the L.A. Sports Arena. It's possible that Archie was around fifty-years-old, when he was stopped by the 21-year-old Clay.

-Rick Farris

[Expug]

I remember the story of the first time Ali and Norton sparred. It must have been a year or so before the first fight between them.
Ali came by the gym Norton trained in looking for sparring.
He had a crew with him as usual. He took a look at Kenny and naturally put the heat on Norton to get up in the ring and box with him.
Norton said ok.They went a couple rounds and Norton gave him a hard time.
Ali was a little embarassed.
The next day Ali comes into the gym Hootin and carrying on,"wheres Norton, Im gonna whoop his ass".
He sees Norton sitting there in his street clothes and asks Eddie Futch,"Aint he sparring today"?.
Futch told Ali,"nope, yesterday, you came in here lookin for sparring.Today you came in here looking for a fight.When we fight you, we are gonna get paid and paid well."
The rest is history.

[Rick Farris]

I remember the story of the first time Ali and Norton sparred. It must have been a year or so before the first fight between them.
Ali came by the gym Norton trained in looking for sparring.
He had a crew with him as usual. He took a look at Kenny and naturally put the heat on Norton to get up in the ring and box with him.
Norton said ok.They went a couple rounds and Norton gave him a hard time.
Ali was a little embarassed.
The next day Ali comes into the gym Hootin and carrying on,"wheres Norton, Im gonna whoop his ass".
He sees Norton sitting there in his street clothes and asks Eddie Futch,"Aint he sparring today"?.
Futch told Ali,"nope, yesterday, you came in here lookin for sparring.Today you came in here looking for a fight.When we fight you, we are gonna get paid and paid well."
The rest is history.

Great story.

[dagosd2000]

NO ENCORE

When Muhammad Ali was in San Diego training for the Norton fight they could have charged admission. I don't think Ali had ever been to San Diego before. I think he looked at San Diego as kind of a hick town,especially when it was a venue for one of his fights. I'm sure he looked at Ken Norton the same way.

Ali is the first and last fighter I've ever seen training for a fight with a microphone in his hand. He enjoyed talking on that microphone more than sparring. Some days he wouldn't even put on the gloves. He always had an excuse.
"My hands are sore."
Or.
"I've got a slight cold."

Ali would walk back and forth with that mike entertaining the crowd with stories of his past,recite poetry,and tell us how easy he was going to wup "Ken Fartin".

This is what I think the great Ali didn't understand about San Diego. This town really is lame. We wouldn't recognize greatness if greatness was put in our contact lenses. And even if that happened,we wouldn't care.

I don't want to include myself with most of the other "blind folk" in this burg,but I know what I'm talking about. Look,I like to go to the concert hall once in a while. This town wouldn't even have a symphony if it wasn't for two women,Helen Copley and Joan Kroc. I've been attending classical music concerts practically all my life in this village. I've never once seen a reputable artist play an encore. When they're done playin',the curtain closes. Why? Because they knew the audience wasn't into it.

I'll never forget after Ali got his jaw broken by Ken Fartin'. All that week Ali had come dressed for his workouts wearing a robe that was given to him by Elvis. On the back was inscribed "The People's Champ."

When Ali left the ring with his swollen face,I saw that he hadput on his robe inside out . Just like Norton had done to him. Welcome to San Diego.

Roger . . . Ali had been in San Diego at least once before. As a young Cassius Clay prepared for his pro debut, his earliest management team, a corporation of Louisville businessmen that called themselves, "Favershim Inc." hired Archie Moore to train the young Olympic gold medalist. Clay was sent to San Diego to train under Archie but there was an immediate "bad chemistry". Moore complained that Clay was to wild and undisciplined, not coachable or willing to toe the mark. When Cassius returned to Louisville, Moore announced, "That boy needs a good whooping. But I don't know who's going to give it to him." Cassius would then relocate to Miami, and work under promoter Chris Dundee's brother, Angelo. A few years later, Moore would fight Cassius Clay at the L.A. Sports Arena. It's possible that Archie was around fifty-years-old, when he was stopped by the 21-year-old Clay.

-Rick Farris

Rick
I stand corrected. Arch trained him up in Ramona. I should have remembered that. Archie told me that Clay didn't want to do chores around the camp. Also, I don't think Clay wanted to adapt to Moore's style of fighting. Archie later said that he didn't like the way Clay made fun of him before their fight.

[Rick Farris]

NO ENCORE

When Muhammad Ali was in San Diego training for the Norton fight they could have charged admission. I don't think Ali had ever been to San Diego before. I think he looked at San Diego as kind of a hick town,especially when it was a venue for one of his fights. I'm sure he looked at Ken Norton the same way.

Ali is the first and last fighter I've ever seen training for a fight with a microphone in his hand. He enjoyed talking on that microphone more than sparring. Some days he wouldn't even put on the gloves. He always had an excuse.
"My hands are sore."
Or.
"I've got a slight cold."

Ali would walk back and forth with that mike entertaining the crowd with stories of his past,recite poetry,and tell us how easy he was going to wup "Ken Fartin".

This is what I think the great Ali didn't understand about San Diego. This town really is lame. We wouldn't recognize greatness if greatness was put in our contact lenses. And even if that happened,we wouldn't care.

I don't want to include myself with most of the other "blind folk" in this burg,but I know what I'm talking about. Look,I like to go to the concert hall once in a while. This town wouldn't even have a symphony if it wasn't for two women,Helen Copley and Joan Kroc. I've been attending classical music concerts practically all my life in this village. I've never once seen a reputable artist play an encore. When they're done playin',the curtain closes. Why? Because they knew the audience wasn't into it.

I'll never forget after Ali got his jaw broken by Ken Fartin'. All that week Ali had come dressed for his workouts wearing a robe that was given to him by Elvis. On the back was inscribed "The People's Champ."

When Ali left the ring with his swollen face,I saw that he hadput on his robe inside out . Just like Norton had done to him. Welcome to San Diego.

Roger . . . Ali had been in San Diego at least once before. As a young Cassius Clay prepared for his pro debut, his earliest management team, a corporation of Louisville businessmen that called themselves, "Favershim Inc." hired Archie Moore to train the young Olympic gold medalist. Clay was sent to San Diego to train under Archie but there was an immediate "bad chemistry". Moore complained that Clay was to wild and undisciplined, not coachable or willing to toe the mark. When Cassius returned to Louisville, Moore announced, "That boy needs a good whooping. But I don't know who's going to give it to him." Cassius would then relocate to Miami, and work under promoter Chris Dundee's brother, Angelo. A few years later, Moore would fight Cassius Clay at the L.A. Sports Arena. It's possible that Archie was around fifty-years-old, when he was stopped by the 21-year-old Clay.

-Rick Farris

Rick
I stand corrected. Arch trained him up in Ramona. I should have remembered that. Archie told me that Clay didn't want to do chores around the camp. Also, I don't think Clay wanted to adapt to Moore's style of fighting. Archie later said that he didn't like the way Clay made fun of him before their fight.

I knew that would come to you, Roger. You know Archie Moore better than most of us here, and I always enjoy your memories of the Old Mongoose. I can totally understand the contrast of Moore and Ali. They would be as compatible as Price Naseem Hamed and Mel Epstein.

-Rick

[dagosd2000]

Rick
I never went to Archie's camp up in the foothills,but I'd drop in at his Any Boy Can facility in East San Diego. I don't think Ali would have liked working out there either. Too many rules. It was Moore's way or the highway.

You know Rick I was just thinkin'. Archie Moore was fighting before Ali was born. No wonder Joe Louis,Arch,and even Rocky Marciano didn't like it when he shot his mouth off. Louis, later on, understood what the facade was. Archie never bought into it,and neither did the Rock. However,Sugar Ray Robinson was a lot closer to Clay in the beginning than the other old timers. Probably because Clay idolized Robby. Wanted him to be his trainer. Imagine Sugar Ray handling Ali(Clay)? Robinson would have never been hurtin' for money. But those were two big egos. I guess Sugar Ray didn't want to the wipe sweat off Ali's brow in the corner. Stars don't do that.

[Rick Farris]

Michele Chong
El Monte Amateur boxing show...3-6-09

Everytime I see pics of Michelle Chong,she has a great smile. Must be a good egg

Roger . . . Michele is a sweetheart. She and Steve Harpst, her boy friend, are a big part of the WBHOF and the L.A. boxing scene. Both Michele and Steve are looking forward to seeing your art, and Michele has commented she would like to write a story about you and your work. I like her style, enthusiasm, and dedication to Steve, L.A. boxing and the WBHOF. She is one of the most positive elements in L.A. boxing today and I truly believe she is "one of us".

The L.A. boxing community is growing, and we who post here from around the world are a part of it. It will never be what it was, what Hap knew, what Frank knew, what we knew, however, that's what makes our era's special. We were unique, and today, thanks to people like Michele Chong, we are remembered and respected.

Like Frank said, he arrived and was immediatly seated at the VIP table. That's the way it will always be for Frank Baltazar. Today, in 2009, Frank Baltazar is no longer a respected boxing manager/coach/amateur icon. Frank is Los Angeles Boxing royalty. Hap Navarro is the King.


-Rick Farris

[Expug]

NO ENCORE

When Muhammad Ali was in San Diego training for the Norton fight they could have charged admission. I don't think Ali had ever been to San Diego before. I think he looked at San Diego as kind of a hick town,especially when it was a venue for one of his fights. I'm sure he looked at Ken Norton the same way.

Ali is the first and last fighter I've ever seen training for a fight with a microphone in his hand. He enjoyed talking on that microphone more than sparring. Some days he wouldn't even put on the gloves. He always had an excuse.
"My hands are sore."
Or.
"I've got a slight cold."

Ali would walk back and forth with that mike entertaining the crowd with stories of his past,recite poetry,and tell us how easy he was going to wup "Ken Fartin".

This is what I think the great Ali didn't understand about San Diego. This town really is lame. We wouldn't recognize greatness if greatness was put in our contact lenses. And even if that happened,we wouldn't care.

I don't want to include myself with most of the other "blind folk" in this burg,but I know what I'm talking about. Look,I like to go to the concert hall once in a while. This town wouldn't even have a symphony if it wasn't for two women,Helen Copley and Joan Kroc. I've been attending classical music concerts practically all my life in this village. I've never once seen a reputable artist play an encore. When they're done playin',the curtain closes. Why? Because they knew the audience wasn't into it.

I'll never forget after Ali got his jaw broken by Ken Fartin'. All that week Ali had come dressed for his workouts wearing a robe that was given to him by Elvis. On the back was inscribed "The People's Champ."

When Ali left the ring with his swollen face,I saw that he hadput on his robe inside out . Just like Norton had done to him. Welcome to San Diego.

Roger . . . Ali had been in San Diego at least once before. As a young Cassius Clay prepared for his pro debut, his earliest management team, a corporation of Louisville businessmen that called themselves, "Favershim Inc." hired Archie Moore to train the young Olympic gold medalist. Clay was sent to San Diego to train under Archie but there was an immediate "bad chemistry". Moore complained that Clay was to wild and undisciplined, not coachable or willing to toe the mark. When Cassius returned to Louisville, Moore announced, "That boy needs a good whooping. But I don't know who's going to give it to him." Cassius would then relocate to Miami, and work under promoter Chris Dundee's brother, Angelo. A few years later, Moore would fight Cassius Clay at the L.A. Sports Arena. It's possible that Archie was around fifty-years-old, when he was stopped by the 21-year-old Clay.

-Rick Farris

Rick
I stand corrected. Arch trained him up in Ramona. I should have remembered that. Archie told me that Clay didn't want to do chores around the camp. Also, I don't think Clay wanted to adapt to Moore's style of fighting. Archie later said that he didn't like the way Clay made fun of him before their fight.

Rick and Rog, do you guys have any thoughts on the way Ali acted towards Patterson?
It always bugged me how in that one clip thats floating around on youtube, Ali stops by Floyds camp and starts calling him "The Rabbit".
Floyd just kinda shrugs it off but you can tell Alis embarrased him. Lotta clowns in the background laughing and giggling.
They say Floyd wouldnt call him Ali . Called him Clay etc. and Muhamed had an ax to grind.
Maybe, I dont know.
In the clip, I feel bad for floyd.He put up with some serious shit.