David Haye

adamiw · Post by **adamiw** » 11 Jul 2004, 10:17

OK, yes it's a dangerous fight for Carl.

But look at the risk Haye is taking:

fightnews:
1. Wayne Braithwaite
2. Jean Marc Mormeck
3. O'Neil Bell
4. Johnny Nelson
5. Kelvin Davis
6. Virgil Hill
7. Guillermo Jones
8. Alexander Gurov
9. Ezra Sellers
10. Carl Thompson

Boxing Talk:
1 Jean Marc Mormeck (WBA)
2 Wayne Braithwaite (WBC)
3 O'Neill Bell
4 Johnny Nelson (WBO)
5 Dale Brown
6 Carl Thompson
7 Virgil Hill
8 Kelvin Davis (IBF)
9 Guillermo Jones
10 Pietro Aurino

Thompson is genuinely regarded as a top 10 Cruiserweight. David Haye has had 10 fights, and is making such a big step up. How rare is it to see someone take such a step up, after this many bouts? And another thing, he's never been beyond 4. This is a HUGE step for someone with so little experience.

Yes this is a dangerous fight for Thompson, but Haye is taking a big risk as well.

neil r · Post by **neil r** » 11 Jul 2004, 10:28

One of the cruel things about this sport is the fact that the baton, at some point, ahs to be passed from one generation tot he next. This inevitably means that and old pro who should maybe have retired by now has to go in against the leading new light. Its not nice but it happens.

I immediatly thought of Marciano v Joe Louis and Ali v Spinks in that respect. I guess this is along similar lines

tea · Post by **tea** » 11 Jul 2004, 10:33

Was Williams arisk too he was number twenty odd in the ratings but hed just los t10 rds out of10 against average Tokarev so the ratings are somewhat deceptive,Thompson is there by fortune not ability everyone knows hes a shot fighter .Did u see the fight with Rothman,the telly version was kind to him the first three rds he was so slow .....like a mummy,its not a great win for either Hobson or Haye ,its just a job to be done hopefully without incident.

Matchfixer · Post by **Matchfixer** » 11 Jul 2004, 11:55

If this fight happens and if Haye wins do you think he will plan an assault on a world title by taking on some of those other names in the top ten. What about the British title and who are the real danger men in this division?

adamiw · Post by **adamiw** » 11 Jul 2004, 12:02

Matchfixer wrote:If this fight happens and if Haye wins do you think he will plan an assault on a world title by taking on some of those other names in the top ten. What about the British title and who are the real danger men in this division?

He's likely to face Sebastian Rothman if he beats Thompson. That will be a hard fight. I think for the first time, Haye's technical skills will be tested, Rothman is a good boxer.

A win there would establish him as a contender after only 12 fights. Problem is that Don King pretty much owns the division, i think he promotes all 3 of the major champs. He is planning to clean up the division, with a unification fight in October (Mormeck-Braithwaite) and that will lead to an Undisputed title fight with the winner facing IBF Champ, Kelvin Davis (if indeed he is still champ at that time).

But Haye's with fight academy, i dont think they have any past with Don King, so who knows, something maybe able to get sorted.

Matchfixer · Post by **Matchfixer** » 11 Jul 2004, 12:06

adamiw wrote:
Matchfixer wrote:If this fight happens and if Haye wins do you think he will plan an assault on a world title by taking on some of those other names in the top ten. What about the British title and who are the real danger men in this division?
He's likely to face Sebastian Rothman if he beats Thompson. That will be a hard fight. I think for the first time, Haye's technical skills will be tested, Rothman is a good boxer.

A win there would establish him as a contender after only 12 fights. Problem is that Don King pretty much owns the division, i think he promotes all 3 of the major champs. He is planning to clean up the division, with a unification fight in October (Mormeck-Braithwaite) and that will lead to an Undisputed title fight with the winner facing IBF Champ, Kelvin Davis (if indeed he is still champ at that time).

But Haye's with fight academy, i dont think they have any past with Don King, so who knows, something maybe able to get sorted.

How good are those guys (Mormeck, Braithwaite and Davis)? Do any of them have Haye's skills?

adamiw · Post by **adamiw** » 11 Jul 2004, 12:19

Matchfixer wrote:
adamiw wrote:
Matchfixer wrote:If this fight happens and if Haye wins do you think he will plan an assault on a world title by taking on some of those other names in the top ten. What about the British title and who are the real danger men in this division?
He's likely to face Sebastian Rothman if he beats Thompson. That will be a hard fight. I think for the first time, Haye's technical skills will be tested, Rothman is a good boxer.

A win there would establish him as a contender after only 12 fights. Problem is that Don King pretty much owns the division, i think he promotes all 3 of the major champs. He is planning to clean up the division, with a unification fight in October (Mormeck-Braithwaite) and that will lead to an Undisputed title fight with the winner facing IBF Champ, Kelvin Davis (if indeed he is still champ at that time).

But Haye's with fight academy, i dont think they have any past with Don King, so who knows, something maybe able to get sorted.
How good are those guys (Mormeck, Braithwaite and Davis)? Do any of them have Haye's skills?

I have only seen Braithwaite, but from what i've read, none of them boast the technical abilty that Haye has tons of. Braithwaite can switch hit...is big and strong and hits very hard. All 3 are pretty even. Against Braithwaite, i would sit on the fence and say it would be 50-50 at this stage. But we still have things to larn about Haye...so it's hard to say!

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 12 Jul 2004, 05:32

NATSUECOW wrote:he can hit but 1st hes got to catch haye which isnt that easy.

exactly....
Haye will be cautious and is just too quick... poor old Carl will be tottering around getting blasted from all angles.... it will be quite sad seeing one of the most exciting british fighters over the last 10 years getting a beating.... much like Toney V Holyfield was...

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Jul 2004, 06:33

Despite Thompson having a great fighting heart, I don't see him being able to rally like he did against Rothmann, Haye's power is in a different league to the feather fisted fancy Dan.

Rothmann's defence is better than Haye's though, but Haye has excellent movement when he is on song, and I think that will be enough.

glittermonkey · Post by **glittermonkey** » 12 Jul 2004, 06:37

knockout wrote:
NATSUECOW wrote:he can hit but 1st hes got to catch haye which isnt that easy.
exactly....
Haye will be cautious and is just too quick... poor old Carl will be tottering around getting blasted from all angles.... it will be quite sad seeing one of the most exciting british fighters over the last 10 years getting a beating.... much like Toney V Holyfield was...

The problem for Carl is the fact he doesn't have Holyfields durability. I don't know which is worse, a brutal early KO or a sustained beating. I wish Carl could avoid both, but i fear it's one or the other.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Jul 2004, 06:40

Neurologically, it's generally better to be stopped quickly, provided there is no serious injury sustained to the brain which causes the stoppage. A sustained beating is much more likely to result in cumulative damage.

I think Haye has the power to make it a swift and merciful KO.

Count Thompson out at your peril however, even though I expect Haye to win, I will never count Thompson out after seeing his last battle.

glittermonkey · Post by **glittermonkey** » 12 Jul 2004, 06:49

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Neurologically, it's generally better to be stopped quickly, provided there is no serious injury sustained to the brain which causes the stoppage. A sustained beating is much more likely to result in cumulative damage.

I think Haye has the power to make it a swift and merciful KO.

Count Thompson out at your peril however, even though I expect Haye to win, I will never count Thompson out after seeing his last battle.

I meant which would be the worst to watch.

I'm not sure that Thompson will get a chance to turn this one around. IMO, he's been virtually running on empty for a few years now, and only his power has saved him from a few more defeats.

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 12 Jul 2004, 07:01

yeah, Carl needs a few rounds to get going and for the other guy to slow down a bit or get complacent.

I think Haye will get it stopped before Thompson has chance to let his shots off...

Thompson looks shot to pieces and I am hoping the ref stops the fight at the earliest possible opportunity.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Jul 2004, 07:14

Too true, Thompson looked out of gas by the 3rd round on against Rothmann, and he looked like he was going to go down any moment for most of the contest.

It looks to me like Thompson's legs have gone, his balance was really bad in there.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 12 Jul 2004, 07:20

glittermonkey wrote: he's been virtually running on empty for a few years now, and only his power has saved him from a few more defeats.

Agreed, plus a great fighting heart and warriors mentality I may add.

glittermonkey · Post by **glittermonkey** » 12 Jul 2004, 07:23

KOJOE90 wrote:
glittermonkey wrote: he's been virtually running on empty for a few years now, and only his power has saved him from a few more defeats.
Agreed, plus a great fighting heart and warriors mentality I may add.

Too true, should have given him a little more credit. Like most fighters, he's got too much guts for his own good.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 12 Jul 2004, 07:26

I think alot of the reasoning why Thompson doesn't get credit becayse he keeps lying in post fight interviews (IMO). Why couldn't hold his arms up and say "Eubank hurt me on several occasions" instead we had "I was playing possom" - The same we had for Nelson and Rothman.

It would show him in a better light both as a person and as a boxer if he just said the truth. By saying he's only playing possom, he's disrespecting the opponent.

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 12 Jul 2004, 07:30

stujones wrote:I think alot of the reasoning why Thompson doesn't get credit becayse he keeps lying in post fight interviews (IMO). Why couldn't hold his arms up and say "Eubank hurt me on several occasions" instead we had "I was playing possom" - The same we had for Nelson and Rothman.

It would show him in a better light both as a person and as a boxer if he just said the truth. By saying he's only playing possom, he's disrespecting the opponent.

i think Thompson is telling the truth some of the time, there were occasions against Rothmann and Eubank where he was hurt but there were also occasions where he was clearly playing possum!!!!!

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Jul 2004, 07:33

He's hardly the first fight to be guilty of lying.

Who could forget Riddick Bowe claiming he was never hurt against Holyfield, despite being twatted and knocked down, and being rooted in his own corner for about 1 1/2 minutes. Bowe was so lucky that Holy couldn't muster the energy to finish him off, becuase one more good shot, and he would have been done for.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 12 Jul 2004, 07:34

stujones wrote:I think alot of the reasoning why Thompson doesn't get credit becayse he keeps lying in post fight interviews (IMO). Why couldn't hold his arms up and say "Eubank hurt me on several occasions" instead we had "I was playing possom" - The same we had for Nelson and Rothman.

It would show him in a better light both as a person and as a boxer if he just said the truth. By saying he's only playing possom, he's disrespecting the opponent.

Maybe, but I still think the crowd reaction to him during the Eubank rematch ringwalk was cruel.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 12 Jul 2004, 07:39

jamesmcdonnell wrote:He's hardly the first fight to be guilty of lying.

Boing is based on lies

Managers and promotors lie to fighters and fans.

Boxers lie to themselves,

"I can still make the weight"
"He didn't hurt me"
"I hurt my hands"
"I've still got a few good fights left in me"
"I've never trained so hard in my life"
"I was robbed"

Etc etc etc.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Jul 2004, 07:44

It's very true, how many times can you say that you unequivocally believe something which is said by anyone involved in boxing? It's less often than not.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 12 Jul 2004, 07:46

jamesmcdonnell wrote:It's very true, how many times can you say that you unequivocally believe something which is said by anyone involved in boxing? It's less often than not.

2003 will be the year of Ricky Hatton!!!!!

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Jul 2004, 07:55

It looks to me like the fight will not happen, because there aren't the SKy TV dates. Of course Hatton could go to the states, however Warren states quite clearly that 'I would hate to give up my fighter's home advantage.'

That seems a pretty clear signal to me, that Warren has no intention of letting any of his fighters travel abroad to challenge for genuine world titles. Surely Ricky should expect to travel to take on Harris. After all, its Harris who has the genuine belt, not Hatton. This is Ricky's best shot at a genuine title, and getting into the mix with the very top men in the division. If he misses this chance, his stock goes down, and surely Showtime are going to lose patience.

I understand that that means that few people will buy the PPV from Sky, as it will be 4.00 am, but surely there will be plenty of PPV interest on the other side of the pond. Of course I guess the fact that there won't be 16,000 loyal fans there will hurt the gate.

I

tea · Post by **tea** » 12 Jul 2004, 08:04

I really think u guys r easily impressed by fight commentaries cos if anyone can point out to me whats so incredible that Haye has dun id be pleased to hear ,I really cant think what ur so amazed about,was it the 1 round mauling of Dowling or when he was sat on his arse by that lightheavy.....or maybe King Arthur who looked brilliant probably in his prime at this moment.U lot need to get real when him and Macca beat someone young,fresh and dangerous ill let u know.