David Haye

Lefthookhappy19 · Post by **Lefthookhappy19** » 12 Jul 2004, 10:24

More aggressive opponents will leave themselves more open for his shots as well. Guys have been pretty wary of him up until this point in his career so far.

adamiw · Post by **adamiw** » 12 Jul 2004, 10:30

yes, and don't doubt Haye's technical ability. As he steps up he wont be so aggresive, and he can box behind that long jab, and obviously wont leave himself so open.

tea · Post by **tea** » 12 Jul 2004, 10:31

Above Hobson Haye n Macca there are oly about 40 fighters anyhow,which is testemant to all 3 fighters as to how well theyre doing .And 25 of them are thirtyodds and acouple of fourtyodds so over the next few years it will be interesting to see how all 3 do,but i do know this.... to compete in the next coulple of levels up u need to be unconditionally as hard as fcuk,full stop,no dicussion.....ive seen Hobson in with Rothman,Norton,Swaby.....Iknow how tough he is.Do u know how tough Haye and Macca r ,i dont.Lets say for argument sake,they really r tough competitors,what aboutthe other good fighters coming through,I like Hobson but id put him in with Haye and Macca on the same night before putting him in with Brudov,so what do we do about that ...just dont box him and pretend were world champ cos Haye hasnt got a chance with the likes of them.

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 12 Jul 2004, 10:44

tea wrote:,I like Hobson but id put him in with Haye and Macca on the same night before putting him in with Brudov,so what do we do about that ...just dont box him and pretend were world champ cos Haye hasnt got a chance with the likes of them.

little known fact number 2: Erik Teymour beat Brudov a few years back in the amateurs!!!!

I would love to see Hobson, Macca and Haye go all the way. of course....

Matchfixer · Post by **Matchfixer** » 12 Jul 2004, 10:46

tea wrote:Above Hobson Haye n Macca there are oly about 40 fighters anyhow,which is testemant to all 3 fighters as to how well theyre doing .And 25 of them are thirtyodds and acouple of fourtyodds so over the next few years it will be interesting to see how all 3 do,but i do know this.... to compete in the next coulple of levels up u need to be unconditionally as hard as fcuk,full stop,no dicussion.....ive seen Hobson in with Rothman,Norton,Swaby.....Iknow how tough he is.Do u know how tough Haye and Macca r ,i dont.Lets say for argument sake,they really r tough competitors,what aboutthe other good fighters coming through,I like Hobson but id put him in with Haye and Macca on the same night before putting him in with Brudov,so what do we do about that ...just dont box him and pretend were world champ cos Haye hasnt got a chance with the likes of them.

Your underestimating how good Haye is. He's only looked casual defensvely up to now because he knows he can get away with it. As someone said above he improved his defence against Williams and I believe he will continue to do so. I don't think it's an technical flaw that he's stuck with when he keeps his hands low. I believe it's out of choice and that he could just as easily keep them higher.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Jul 2004, 10:55

The only worrying thing is that it becomes a habit. I was very encouraged by how much more cautious he was against Williams, whilst at the same time hammering him and keeping him negative.

tea · Post by **tea** » 12 Jul 2004, 10:57

Im not underestimating Haye,ive seen him up close and know exactly who he is.

adamiw · Post by **adamiw** » 12 Jul 2004, 10:59

yes. He was aggresive but didn't get to close. He used his range very well. He was throwing big shots from distance, and it meant that Williams found it hard to counter, then he stepped in when Williams wasn't offering anything.

but like you say, bad habits can worsen if he doesn't need to keep his hands up...that's what i fear may happen with Kevin Mitchell. But Haye wont be able to get away with such a loose defence so hopefully wont fall into that trap.

tea · Post by **tea** » 12 Jul 2004, 11:14

Look it doesnt matter how much they improve his defence.....as i said before youve gotta be hard as fcuk ,you guys r making arguments for him avoiding everything,not gonna happen.To be a top drawer fighter no matter how good u r defencively your gonna take some serious hammer.The question is ,is Hayes chin good enough and is he tough enough....not can he avoid everything forever,cause he cant and he wont.

adamiw · Post by **adamiw** » 12 Jul 2004, 11:17

you are right...and i feel that could be the difference between David being a good fighter, or being a potentially GREAT fighter. If he can take a punch..then he could really become something special. But the Mock fight does make me think hard about how far Haye will go.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Jul 2004, 11:21

tea wrote:Look it doesnt matter how much they improve his defence.....as i said before youve gotta be hard as fcuk ,you guys r making arguments for him avoiding everything,not gonna happen.To be a top drawer fighter no matter how good u r defencively your gonna take some serious hammer.The question is ,is Hayes chin good enough and is he tough enough....not can he avoid everything forever,cause he cant and he wont.

You don't have to be able to avoid everything, no fighter does that. However, just because he got badly chinned (or templed to be more accurate) my Mock, doesn't mean he's going to go down like a $5 whore every time he gets hit.

Until such time as proven otherwise, I am prepared to give Haye the benefit of the doubt, and write the knockdown off as an aberration. Time will tell.

Matchfixer · Post by **Matchfixer** » 12 Jul 2004, 11:27

tea wrote:Look it doesnt matter how much they improve his defence.....as i said before youve gotta be hard as fcuk ,you guys r making arguments for him avoiding everything,not gonna happen.To be a top drawer fighter no matter how good u r defencively your gonna take some serious hammer.The question is ,is Hayes chin good enough and is he tough enough....not can he avoid everything forever,cause he cant and he wont.

In answer to the last sentence we don't know yet - thing is you could say that about any unproven fighter.

Why not stick to discussing what is evident at the moment.

adamiw · Post by **adamiw** » 12 Jul 2004, 11:28

Matchfixer wrote:
tea wrote:Look it doesnt matter how much they improve his defence.....as i said before youve gotta be hard as fcuk ,you guys r making arguments for him avoiding everything,not gonna happen.To be a top drawer fighter no matter how good u r defencively your gonna take some serious hammer.The question is ,is Hayes chin good enough and is he tough enough....not can he avoid everything forever,cause he cant and he wont.
In answer to the last sentence we don't know yet - thing is you could say that about any unproven fighter.

Why not stick to discussing what is evident at the moment.

i think it's a fair point. It's not like Haye hasn't been hurt before, he was all over the place after taking that right from Mock.

Slapsie Maxie · Post by **Slapsie Maxie** » 12 Jul 2004, 11:29

he was all over the place after taking that right from Mock.[/quote]

Doesn't that say it all?????

Slapsie

tea · Post by **tea** » 12 Jul 2004, 11:31

JW,were dealing facts here and the fact is if lightheavy Mock,who hadnt won a fight for 4 years coming into Haye fight can put Haye over,then the much bigger heavy handed cruisers that r out there will definately put Haye down.From that moment there is where David Hayes legacy begins not beating the likes of Williams or even Thompson if that comes off.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 12 Jul 2004, 11:32

Man, this has become one long thread. I only asked when his next fight was.

adamiw · Post by **adamiw** » 12 Jul 2004, 11:34

Slapsie Maxie wrote:he was all over the place after taking that right from Mock.

Doesn't that say it all?????

Slapsie[/quote]

no, because it was a shot to the temple, as this pic shows:

Those shots aren't the same as a punch to the chin.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 12 Jul 2004, 11:35

In all fairness Haye got nailed by just about the nastiest punch he could have been caught with. It was a horrible shot.

I believe he's learnt from it. Heck he's certainly not shown any signs of becoming gun shy.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Jul 2004, 11:37

In fairness I think the reason he was all over the place was that he jumped up way too quickly. I was right at ringside, and I caught him wink at his friends and family when he first went down. However, when he tried to get up at about 3, the grin changed to an 'Oh my gosh' face, when he realised how badly gone his legs were.

It was a looping shot high on the temple and it might just be that he got caught on just the stop. I've heard various things about Haye being chinny, but I've also heard the other side of the argument when people point out that he regularly spars with heavyweights. Until such time as it's proven, the jury is out for me.

What the williams fight did prove is that he hits with enough authority to make someone as experienced as Williams think twice about trying to rush him.

adamiw · Post by **adamiw** » 12 Jul 2004, 11:40

Yes, David spars with some very good guys, and a lot of them heavyweight, and he's done nothing but own most of them. There are 2 sides to everything as you say. Some point out the above, others refer to the Mock knock down, and a fight back in the amateurs where he was KOd with one punch.

time will tell....

tea · Post by **tea** » 12 Jul 2004, 11:42

Hes gonna get hit on temple again,and by bigger heavier punchers than Mock.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Jul 2004, 11:44

What nonsense. It's rare that a clean shot to the temple lands like that. It seems you've already made your mind up about Haye, seems little point discussing the matter, you've decided he's chinny and that he doesn't have the talent.

I would love to know who you think is going to be the big noise in the division, because as far as I can see, everyone who is possibly a big name has flaws.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 12 Jul 2004, 11:45

Yeah well if he keeps improving then he'll see those kind of punches coming a mile off.

Matchfixer · Post by **Matchfixer** » 12 Jul 2004, 11:46

adamiw wrote:
Matchfixer wrote:
tea wrote:Look it doesnt matter how much they improve his defence.....as i said before youve gotta be hard as fcuk ,you guys r making arguments for him avoiding everything,not gonna happen.To be a top drawer fighter no matter how good u r defencively your gonna take some serious hammer.The question is ,is Hayes chin good enough and is he tough enough....not can he avoid everything forever,cause he cant and he wont.
In answer to the last sentence we don't know yet - thing is you could say that about any unproven fighter.

Why not stick to discussing what is evident at the moment.
i think it's a fair point. It's not like Haye hasn't been hurt before, he was all over the place after taking that right from Mock.

We all know about Mock - old fight, old news.

tea · Post by **tea** » 12 Jul 2004, 11:46

Hobsons been sparring heavyweights since he was 14,and hes owned them.Infact Hobson sparred Bagrat Ohanyon...if team Haye r so confident about him owning heavies maybe they should get him in for sparring and try owning him.