Enzo Vs Afolabi Spoiler! post fight discussion merged

[DG.]

If being a Champion brings you on the he is only going to get better.

He looked as if he were not even trying on Saturday, imagine if he wants it!

DD

[The_Real_Deal]

If being a Champion brings you on the he is only going to get better.

He looked as if he were not even trying on Saturday, imagine if he wants it!

DD

I wouldnt exactly say that I am sure Enzo wanted it, Ola just wanted it more and had a game plan, its easier to put together a game plan when you have plenty of footage to watch, and its hard to put together a solid game plan for a guy you have no footage of, along with a misleading record and some serious boxing skills.

Enzo was doomed from the start, if he took him lightley thats his fault, but it should not discredit the work that Ola had put in, the fight was dead even going into the 9th maybe a round up for Enzo but Ola was in the fight.

The truth is people are over here saying Enzo has a glass chin, or that he was over rated, that isnt the case, Ola is just under rated, and has the power to hurt you, remember at 200 pounds a man can punch no matter what his record shows.

and let me also explain something about Olas record, when I met Ola I didnt know he had two Amatuer fights in the UK, he was already a pro at wildcard with a few fights under his belt, but the way you bring up a late starter like Ola is by simply getting him some soft fights, and allowing him to develope that way, use the rounds dont look for the knock outs, remember very little amatuer experience, so he used those fights to develope his skills to go the distance and perfect his craft, because if you plan on stepping up to this level your going to need those skills to get you through.

Ola has been brought up the right way, very few trainers would have took the time to actually help him out this way, usally guys like Ola get rushed and used up before they even fully develope as a fighter. I am glad this isnt the case here, its good to see Ola finally break through he deserves it.

This isnt a case of Enzo is that bad, its a case of Ola is that good~ and i know you dont agree with me now, but in time you will see what I am talking about.

[rob h]

In response To world ranked's comment "I bet you believe Haye has a better resume than Calzaghe?"

Where does Haye come into it? Are trying to get under my skin little fella?

Since you brought it up though...Haye has achieved a hell of a lot for a fighter with 22/23 fights under his belt.

But no, Calzaghe has the "Names" on his record now doesn't he.

I wont bet against David smashing Calzaghes resume in the future though. As unlike Calzaghe, Haye has the ball's to go out there and fight for what he wants.

He wont be fighting Tocker Pudwill and Mger Mkrtchyan in his Eleventh year as a Pro....i firmly believe that my friend.

[The_Real_Deal]

its kind of un fair to compair Haye to Joe right at the moment, Joe is at the end of his career while Haye still has his mothers milk on his lips.

[Carbo]

I have no idea why people here are saying that Afolabi had world class technique or was a world class fighter. He was getting tagged with plenty, and was allowing Enzo to rack up loads of rounds. MAccarinelli seemed to run out of gas more than anything, and that won't happen with ever top notch cruiserweight he faces.

Poor, poor night for Enzo, whose heart didn't seem to be in it. He really didn't box well.

[The_Real_Deal]

I have no idea why people here are saying that Afolabi had world class technique or was a world class fighter. He was getting tagged with plenty, and was allowing Enzo to rack up loads of rounds. MAccarinelli seemed to run out of gas more than anything, and that won't happen with ever top notch cruiserweight he faces.

Poor, poor night for Enzo, whose heart didn't seem to be in it. He really didn't box well.

The man showed skills in there, he was slipping and allowing Mac to work himself to death and that is what happend, the knock out wasnt a desperate shot it was a simple slip and counter shot he timed that shot perfectly.

Ola is world class its just too many people are in denial about the fight, its easier to rule out Olas talent and call Enzo a bum, rather than to give credit to an "American" Based fighter.

[Carbo]

I have no idea why people here are saying that Afolabi had world class technique or was a world class fighter. He was getting tagged with plenty, and was allowing Enzo to rack up loads of rounds. MAccarinelli seemed to run out of gas more than anything, and that won't happen with ever top notch cruiserweight he faces.

Poor, poor night for Enzo, whose heart didn't seem to be in it. He really didn't box well.

The man showed skills in there, he was slipping and allowing Mac to work himself to death and that is what happend, the knock out wasnt a desperate shot it was a simple slip and counter shot he timed that shot perfectly.

Ola is world class its just too many people are in denial about the fight, its easier to rule out Olas talent and call Enzo a bum, rather than to give credit to an "American" Based fighter.

It amazes me that a man capable of slipping some punches is automatically considered world class. I suspect people were taken by the unorthodoxy of the poor man’s Toney defence.

I also suspect that the classification of Afelobi as world class is yet another example of the knee jerk reactions pervasive on this forum, where fighters and coaches move far too dramatically up and down the assessment scale after each performance.

A good exercise here is to look at the whole fight sans the KO. If we do this, we notice that apart from some wobbly moments in the third, Maccarinelli was winning almost every round, and while Afelobi was slipping some, he was also shipping plenty, too. In fact, over the whole fight, he was being out worked, out landed, and, on my card and I suspect the judges, too, out pointed.

Of course, he did score the knockdown, but it doesn’t change the fact that for large portions of the fight he was being beaten by Maccarinelli, who we all now agree is somewhere off the top of the division. Further, it appeared that Maccarinelli himself was somewhere short of his usual stamina, as well as being ring rusty, guilty of underestimating the opponent, and lacking the clarity of mind to enact a sensible plan against an awkward opponent.

Given these mitigating circumstances, added to the fact Maccarinelli does not represent the pinnacle of cruiserweight quality, and that he actually won most of the rounds, I think immediately being wowed by Afelobi’s ‘quality’ might be misguided.

Surely, waiting for the opponent to punch himself out is not going to work with every decent fighter he faces?

To be sure, on an absolute level, Afelobi is world class, probably, because the cruiserweight division is weak, and he will be one of the better fighters there. And perhaps he will go on to make waves in the division. Equally, perhaps the tactic of letting Enzo punch himself out was deliberate and was a sign of a genius tactician. But I will reserve judgment until I see him again, because I really can’t bring myself to call him a ‘class act’ after one performance against a man who’s probably boxed less than 10 rounds in two years, is frustrated with the game, wasn’t exceptionally good to start with, and was knocked out after looking extremely fatigued for at least a round before hand.

Ask yourself this: how do you rate Enzo in the broad scheme of things, and how much better than last weekend would have have to be to win a rematch? For me, the answers are "Enzo can win some and lose some at the top of one of the weakest divisions in boxing, and he wouldn't have to be much better at all to win the rematch, as long as Afelobi does not improve significantly." Those answers give an indication of my estimation of Afelobi.

[DavidPayne]

Good summary Carbs.

Only needs an extra line or two and it would have been a good....

Is that my coat....yeh, melted Penguin in the top pocket...ta.

[Carbo]

Good summary Carbs.

Only needs an extra line or two and it would have been a good....

Is that my coat....yeh, melted Penguin in the top pocket...ta.

Da, da, Ya ponimayu.

[charlieb]

Afolabi barely won a round, he did the same thing all night, muddied Enzo's attacks and timed the occassional big counter.

For me it looked like a simple case of Enzo underestimating a decent opponent. No more, no less.

Afolabi's got an awkward style, good chin and a decent dig. The rest of the cruisers should be on notice now, doubt he'll be taken lightly again. At the same time, the stoppage came at a point in the fight where that outcome was fast becoming the only way that Afolabi could have won. If an underprepared Enzo could outbox him, and outslug him for the most part, then the top boys (Cunningham, Huck, Adamek, etc.) should all be favourites against him.

If he ends up fighting Ramirez, that could be a helluva good fight to watch.

The one thing that Enzo needs to remember - one of the most consistent things about the division is the regularity with which belts change hands, people write it off as being poor but I disagree, I think its more of a case that a low profile division means that the best are more inclined to fight the best in order to get the attention that in a more glamourous division would be afforded to someone who would only occassionally test themselves against the best in their division.

I hope Enzo can regroup, because he definitely had the ability to compete with the best, assuming it was a lack of preparation as opposed to any lingering downturn caused by his loss to Haye and the recent long running problems he's faced outside of the ring.

[Spiker]

I have no idea why people here are saying that Afolabi had world class technique or was a world class fighter. He was getting tagged with plenty, and was allowing Enzo to rack up loads of rounds. MAccarinelli seemed to run out of gas more than anything, and that won't happen with ever top notch cruiserweight he faces.

Poor, poor night for Enzo, whose heart didn't seem to be in it. He really didn't box well.

His heart was in it.
He was boasting about how he was a new improved Enzo after the Haye fight.
He couldnt put him away so he was fucked basically.
Afterwards says he thought it would be an easy fight.
He didnt say that before the fight did he.
Enzo was exposed and boxed a normal Enzo fight but it just didnt work.

[DG.]

If being a Champion brings you on the he is only going to get better.

He looked as if he were not even trying on Saturday, imagine if he wants it!

DD

I wouldnt exactly say that I am sure Enzo wanted it, Ola just wanted it more and had a game plan, its easier to put together a game plan when you have plenty of footage to watch, and its hard to put together a solid game plan for a guy you have no footage of, along with a misleading record and some serious boxing skills.

I meant Ola did not look as if he were trying and that being Champion will bring him on.

Enzo is glassed chinned and overrated.

Always has been in my book.

He is good, buit just good domestic and decent European and not the 2nd coming of Bob Foster.

[dbf]

I have no idea why people here are saying that Afolabi had world class technique or was a world class fighter. He was getting tagged with plenty, and was allowing Enzo to rack up loads of rounds. MAccarinelli seemed to run out of gas more than anything, and that won't happen with ever top notch cruiserweight he faces.

Poor, poor night for Enzo, whose heart didn't seem to be in it. He really didn't box well.

His heart was in it.
He was boasting about how he was a new improved Enzo after the Haye fight.
He couldnt put him away so he was fucked basically.
Afterwards says he thought it would be an easy fight.
He didnt say that before the fight did he.
Enzo was exposed and boxed a normal Enzo fight but it just didnt work.

I tend to agree. His body shots barely seemed to bother Afolabi. He didn't look comfortable up close and on the ropes(even though he was the agressor). Afolabi was akward and proved to have a strong chin, but as has been said, losing all of the rounds barely substantiates a claim making him world class.

[DG.]

The way he allowed Enzo to blow up added to the way he took the shots and the finish and tyhe cool mannner he did it shows me the guy was fighting within himself..

He upped it at the right time andn Enzo crumbled.

The most telling thing about the whole fight and SPorts Networks and their version of Boxing was the line from Enzo..

'I thought it was going to be an easy fight!

Its a World Title fight!

Oh yes, I forgot he beat Mark Hobson in his 1st World Title fight.

Fwank milks them and when they lose he could not give a flying eff!

REMEMBER - FWANK CLAPPED WHEN ENZO WAS HURT IN THE 3RD... No allegedly about that!

[DG.]

The way he allowed Enzo to blow up added to the way he took the shots and the finish and tyhe cool mannner he did it shows me the guy was fighting within himself..

He upped it at the right time andn Enzo crumbled.

The most telling thing about the whole fight and SPorts Networks and their version of Boxing was the line from Enzo..

'I thought it was going to be an easy fight!

Its a World Title fight!

Oh yes, I forgot he beat Mark Hobson in his 1st World Title fight.

Fwank milks them and when they lose he could not give a flying eff!

REMEMBER - FWANK CLAPPED WHEN ENZO WAS HURT IN THE 3RD... No allegedly about that!

It may have been an optical illusion, like when Jorge 'clapped' when Khan was knocked out, or the image of Hitler 'zeich hailing' into the arse of our King. It is all about perspective.

Possibly, but I doubt it!

Have a look - 3rd round!

[DG.]

I think I know what happend. It went 'Ding-Ding Round 3', and we all know what a big De La Soul fan Frank is, he started reciting the tune in his mind as the round wore on, and was just clapping along to the 'magic number' bit when Enz got clipped. It was just one od those things. I am singing Plug Tuning as we speak, the sparks are in.

Were you ever sectioned under the mental health act? And if not.....why not?

[The_Real_Deal]

Ola didnt only win a single round, the fight was even going into the ninth So to say Enzo was winning every round is just out right a lie.

[thepocketrocket]

What are you talking about....Enzo was winning the rounds easy!! How did the judges have it??

[Shirow]

It should be noted that Enzo was not outboxing Ola and was winning rounds on his activity alone. In every round Ola showed that he was the technically better boxer but just didn't move his hands enough. That's why i was worried he would let it slip away when he needed KDs or a KO to win by the 8th.

[Coco]

What are you talking about....Enzo was winning the rounds easy!! How did the judges have it??

The commentary team had it 7-1 to Enzo at the time and I agreed

[jamesmcdonnell]

I'll ask a question, would we have even heard of Maccarinelli if he was from Ipswich or Taunton or Consett?

Nah. Coat-tails. Its all about coat-tails.

I've never, ever seen what Macca is supposed to have had. His fight with that Belgian light-heavyweight told me all I needed to know. One dimensional and not fond of taking a shot.

To be fair to Enzo, he has very quick hands and very impressive punchpower and shot selection.

However, he is not a cultured fighter, and has no idea how to fight off the back foot or to change tactics mid fight it would appear.

Enzo completely played into Afalobi's hands, by standing toe to toe with him, where Enzo, who is a natural long puncher, couldn't get the leverage into his shots, and Afalobi could throw sneak thief little shots.

He used all his energy up in the clinches against the much more relaxed Afalobi, who was still fresh and raring to go after the mid point.

About ten second before the end came, I said to my mate, Enzo's slowing down, if he slows down he's done, and then, BANG.

Terrible terrible tactics from Enzo, and his corner new it damned well.

[Carbo]

I have no idea why people here are saying that Afolabi had world class technique or was a world class fighter. He was getting tagged with plenty, and was allowing Enzo to rack up loads of rounds. MAccarinelli seemed to run out of gas more than anything, and that won't happen with ever top notch cruiserweight he faces.

Poor, poor night for Enzo, whose heart didn't seem to be in it. He really didn't box well.

His heart was in it.
He was boasting about how he was a new improved Enzo after the Haye fight.
He couldnt put him away so he was fucked basically.
Afterwards says he thought it would be an easy fight.
He didnt say that before the fight did he.
Enzo was exposed and boxed a normal Enzo fight but it just didnt work.

There's something in this argument that suggests it was made by someone who was born yesterday.

Just when did a fighter say pre-fight "Yeah, to be honest, my preparation has been third rate at best, because I really don't think this guy is up to much"?

Answer: never.

To take a fighter’s pre-fight spiel as truth when that spiel is near identical to the standard ‘boxing media relations 101’ textbook is suggestive of either (1) hopeless naivety, (2) lack of experience of boxing or (3) someone who doesn’t know how to (or simply can’t) construct an argument to defend their position.

Of course Enzo said he prepared/was taking it seriously/would comeback from the Haye KO better than ever/was 110%. It’s what they all say.

Next thing, Spiker will be defending Arsene Wenger’s non-criticism of a player by arguing he “did not see” the incident, or defending Dick Cheney because he told us all that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

Ola didnt only win a single round, the fight was even going into the ninth So to say Enzo was winning every round is just out right a lie.

There’s not much I can do to argue against this. I think it was fairly apparent and indisputable that Maccarinelli had a clear points lead entering the ninth –- 7-1 or 7-2, at least –- but if you think it was 4-4, that’s up to you, because scoring is subjective. I can disagree with that, because I really can't see where Ola got four rounds, but I think we’d just end up arguing back and forth and entering into an ever more detailed round by round analysis, which nobody wants, I think.

I’d rather just put you in the Eugenia Williams file and be done with it.

[clubberlang]

Saw the fight last night on Sky.

Enzo obviously wasn’t in the best of shape, physically or mentally as he himself admitted in the post fight interview. Still he was ahead on points, his punches where crisp and accurate but by the ninth he was exhausted.

As for Afolabi he reminded me a bit of Emmanuel Augustus, lots of showboating, some clever defensive moves, he was physically strong with a good chin, he counter punched well (especially with his back to the ropes) & he’s a clubbing puncher.

I think if Enzo has been in the same shape as he was for the Braithwaite fight he would have won on points.

Also I was a bit p*ssed off with the commentators not acknowledging Afolabi’s non stop body work up close which was the main reason Enzo wilted.

[rhino222]

its kind of un fair to compair Haye to Joe right at the moment, Joe is at the end of his career while Haye still has his mothers milk on his lips.

there is a girl in austria with her fathers milk on her lips....