Rick Farris wrote:dagosd2000 wrote:
Muddy Waters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO1JLH2Pzkg
Got My Mojo Working(Chicago Blues Maxwell Street Style)You are on a roll Roger.
-Rick Farris
Hap . . . I was surprised to learn that Speedy Dado had lived into his early 80's. He lived quite an interesting life.Dongee wrote:Rick:
I remember hearing about it but could never get Speedy to talk about it. Sadly, when Lou Magana paid me a visit in San Diego in 94 one of the first people I asked him about was Speedy. I wanted to know how he died. Lou said that he died alone and was found several days after he had passed away. Good old Speedy.
hap navarro
Rick Farris wrote:Hap . . . I know that Vince Delgado started his career at the Legion in 1952, and that he was the nephew of Carlos Chavez. Vince is involved with the WBHOF and I'm enjoying getting to know him. I know that we have discussed Vince in the past, but off the top of your head, can you think of anything, a special memory concerning the former fatherweight contender? Sometimes the most unimportant memory leads to a great personal story.
-Rick Farris
Rick, thanks for sharing that story about Jack Dempsey.Rick Farris wrote:The power of an autograph . . .Expug wrote:Gents, things are lightening up a bit, I will be around more.
Bennie, your in my prayers, I hope you can beat that illness.
I just got home from working the Lakers - Bulls game.
Kobe Bryant must have had a hundred people waitng after the game for an autograph.
They all had permission to come down to a restricted area where Im in charge.
He stiffed all of them by slipping out the side door.
I dont think too many boxers would have done that.
At least not the ones we talk about here.
Can you imagine people who are so important and full of themselves as to shun the people that pay their mega-million dollar salary. The Lakers pay Kobe with money paid by the fans. These A-Holes don't like themselves, I guess it's impossible to care for a fan. Brian, you were certainly right that fighters are a different breed. I remember in Phoenix, as troubled a life Mike Tyson had created for himself, he never turned his back on a fan, especially a kid. And Tyson, in just a few years, generated more income than Kobe Bryant will in his entire career.
Jack Dempsey? I still have the B&W 8x10 he signed and mailed to me when I was twelve. I asked if I could have his autograph. I'd sent a letter adressed to:
Jack Dempsey
Former Heavyweight Champ
New York, N.Y.
Less than two weeks later the picture was hanging above my bed. That photo gave me hope. It overwhelmed me with a feeling of being special enough a person, that another person who had reached the top would acknowledge me, and share a few encouraging words. "To Rick, lots of luck pal . . . Jack Dempsey".
I'd written in my letter that I was going to be a pro fighter (I was twelve), like I'm sure a lot of kids do. Dempsey made me believe I could do it, if I wanted it. And I did. In my own young mind I made myself believe that Dempsey believed I could do it, so why I shouldn't I believe that. It's funny the power of suggestion, I told Dempsey I was going to be a pro fighter, I didn't say a world champ, just a pro fighter. I accomplished that, and as silly as it may seem to anybody reading this, Dempsy's photo was an on going reminder of my goal. I would see it every morning when I woke up , and every night when I went to bed.
Sadly, there are few Jack Dempsey's walking the planet, but you can still find that type of athlete in the ring. Guys like Rodolfo "El Gato" Gonzalez, Carlos Ortiz, the great Roberto Duran (if you can close enough to him), Tyson, Emile Griffith, the late Mando Ramos, Danny Lopez, Bobby Chacon. These guys work overtime signing autographs at WBHOF events. If they agree to sign autographs for a couple of hours they end up signing for 6 or 7 hours without a break, until their hand is numb from holding the pen. They don't ask for or receive a penny. They love their fans, they don't forget, and neither do the fans.
Today, in sports memorabelia stores you see bright pro team jersey's with a players number on the back, and an impersonal signature. They sell for three figures or more. Nothing personal, just generic crap, stuff that can be "bought" anywhere. However, a picture of "Gato", or "Little Red" or "Schoolboy" Bobby, with the champs genuinely smiling and bonding with their fans is something else. And the best part is, it doesn't cost an arm or a leg, it's there for the asking.
Brian, thanks for confirming what I thought to be true of our brilliant Kobe, he's a 24 Karat pain-in-the-ass, just like 90% of today's so-called "superstars". Is Michael Jordan that way? I always thought of him as having more class than a Kobe?
-Rick Farris
Kiki and Rick:Rick Farris wrote:Rick Farris wrote:Hap . . . I know that Vince Delgado started his career at the Legion in 1952, and that he was the nephew of Carlos Chavez. Vince is involved with the WBHOF and I'm enjoying getting to know him. I know that we have discussed Vince in the past, but off the top of your head, can you think of anything, a special memory concerning the former fatherweight contender? Sometimes the most unimportant memory leads to a great personal story.
-Rick Farris
Kiki and Rick:Rick Farris wrote:Rick Farris wrote:Hap . . . I know that Vince Delgado started his career at the Legion in 1952, and that he was the nephew of Carlos Chavez. Vince is involved with the WBHOF and I'm enjoying getting to know him. I know that we have discussed Vince in the past, but off the top of your head, can you think of anything, a special memory concerning the former fatherweight contender? Sometimes the most unimportant memory leads to a great personal story.
-Rick Farris
Thanks Hap, and you are certainly right about the change in the boxer's careers who pulled away from the Legion. It says a lot about your skill as a matchmaker. You can build a boxer's career, but it seems they always seek their fortunes elsewhere, and pay the price. This also shows on the records of a number of boxers from your era. You can see a pattern from the time they left the Legion and attempted to settle into another venue.Dongee wrote:Kiki and Rick:Rick Farris wrote:Rick Farris wrote:Hap . . . I know that Vince Delgado started his career at the Legion in 1952, and that he was the nephew of Carlos Chavez. Vince is involved with the WBHOF and I'm enjoying getting to know him. I know that we have discussed Vince in the past, but off the top of your head, can you think of anything, a special memory concerning the former fatherweight contender? Sometimes the most unimportant memory leads to a great personal story.
-Rick Farris
I cannot say anything about the three names you posted, Kiki, except that the Dorando family operated a cafe somewhere in Hollywood, I believe. Those three were a sorta new wave trio that happened along after my time.
And Rick:
The only thing I remember about Vince is that I gave him his first seven bouts, keeping him unbeaten. When they pulled him away from the Legion his career changed a little. Take a look at the record of Cisco Andrade sometime and you will note that he had about 11 of his first 13 bouts with me as his matchmaker......and he did very well.
hap navarro
iskigoe wrote:My 20 Greatest
* • • •
By Hype Igoe
International News Service Sports Writer
AUTICLE NO. ».
Mar. 06. Tad used to call him the "Lily the "Salmon Pink," the "Mauvo
lightweight champion yet setting aside drollery of the immortal cartoonist and writer . Jimmy Britt could fight.
There were many days when , Jimmy, his manger -brother Willie, and myself were a parley to the making of Jimmy's earliest, 13-year-old fights, there were two kids in the school we attended who got it stuck in their
noodles that they could lick James edward Britt • •
One was Stanley Horan , now a tax collector' in the City Hall in
San Francisco, if he has been spared. Thc other was Jimmy Lawler, later a professional fighter.
It was my duty, each atfernoon after school, to splice J'mmy's right hand behind' his back in order to bring Horan's proficiency up to a parity with BrittS . Horan wouldn't have had a chance with Jimmy otherwise. lawler
was a better fighter than Horan and didn't ask to have Britts
right moored to his spine.
It was a long time, at that, before these two realized that Jimmys
greatest punch was a left to the body, one of the best of all
time, Frankie Nell being comparable with him in this respect.
Lawler and Britt used to fight in an alley two blocks from the
school and this fued, which went on day after day, only to be broken
up by the cops, produced some of tho greatest fighting ever I
looked upon.
Then Britt joined the Olympic Club and became their star amateur lightweight. Later came the night when he fought his first
professional fight against Toby Irwln, the leading referee In San
Francisco at the present tune. I bet 20 silver dollars on Irwln, Tad
taking the bet. With all my knowledge , of Brltt's amateur
prowess, somehow or other I couldn't bring myself to believe
that Jimmy really was good enough to meet a rather well seaoned
fighter like Irwln, They In Oakland, February 18,
002, Just 40 years agol Jimmy got the decision at the end of 15
rounds.
Now, indeed, Brltt was a professionnl. Rapidly he ran up
nockout victories over Tim Hagerty, Kid Lavigne and Frank Erne.
Britt knocked them out in eight, and seven rounds, respec-
Ively. In 1003 he defeated Willie Fitzgerald in 20 rounds, Charlie
Siger in 20, Martin Canole in 25. t had been agreed that if no decision
could be rendered at the end of 20 rounds, five more were
to be added to the fray. Britt got the duke over Martin at the finsh
of the extra five rounds.
Then came Brltt's first big shot, the 20-round defeat ot the highly
touted Young Corbott. He followed this with his first defeat of !
Battling Nelson, Jimmy eventual-
ly whipping the "Durable Dane," three out of four.
It is of their second fight, on 'Admission Day," September 9,
1905 that I would write.
Nelson was pretty well convinced that he would have to
snare Jimmy inlo a longer fight If he hoped to defeat the Native
Son. When Joe gans refused to make 135 pounds for Britt or anybody
else, Jimmy claimed the title and it was for this reason thut
Tad dubbed Jamas Edward those monikers which are mentioned a
the start of this story. Tad was a great admirer of Gans and was
the one to call him the "Old Master."
Willie Brltt, In making the match with Nelson for his
brother, permilted hlmself to becoaxed Into a 45 round solto by
foxy Billy Nolan, the same fellow who forced Gans to come in at
Coldileld, Nov., 133 ringside, wearing his gloves, shoes, socks
and trunks.
It was a light I'll never forget !. Britt, knowing that the trail was long, tried to win with a knockout in the enrly rounds. He knew
exactly what he could do with the hardy Dane in a bout
limited to 10, 13 or 20 rounds. How about 45 rounds'.' He didn't
know and the thought of going beyond 20 and matching his stamina
against the Dane's was terrifying.
When Jimmy's early efferts weakened him and not the Dane, it was plain to see that Nelson would come on to win. "Spider" Kelly, Brltt's chief second, had
ordered Willie barred from the open-air arena because of his tendency
to go loco when things were going against brother Jimmy.
Things did begin to go badly against Jimmy in the 18th, 17th,
and all too badly In the 18th, in which round Nelson knocked him
out. As Jimmy tried to punch Nelson at bay, there came a roar
from the side of the ring and there was brother Willie, pounding
the ring canvas over the heads of the scribes, yelling:
'Go on tiger—one more—ONe MORE for old Bryant Street's sake
—for MY sake—kill him Jimmy!" It was Jimmy who was being
"killed." Down he went, right in front of us, near the ropes.
(This in the third, or a series by
Hype Igoe in which he recalls 20
of the greatest fights he has seen
In a career covering boxing
stetching almost half a century).
Rick,Brian FYI.Rick Farris wrote:The power of an autograph . . .Expug wrote:Gents, things are lightening up a bit, I will be around more.
Bennie, your in my prayers, I hope you can beat that illness.
I just got home from working the Lakers - Bulls game.
Kobe Bryant must have had a hundred people waitng after the game for an autograph.
They all had permission to come down to a restricted area where Im in charge.
He stiffed all of them by slipping out the side door.
I dont think too many boxers would have done that.
At least not the ones we talk about here.
Can you imagine people who are so important and full of themselves as to shun the people that pay their mega-million dollar salary. The Lakers pay Kobe with money paid by the fans. These A-Holes don't like themselves, I guess it's impossible to care for a fan. Brian, you were certainly right that fighters are a different breed. I remember in Phoenix, as troubled a life Mike Tyson had created for himself, he never turned his back on a fan, especially a kid. And Tyson, in just a few years, generated more income than Kobe Bryant will in his entire career.
Jack Dempsey? I still have the B&W 8x10 he signed and mailed to me when I was twelve. I asked if I could have his autograph. I'd sent a letter adressed to:
Jack Dempsey
Former Heavyweight Champ
New York, N.Y.
Less than two weeks later the picture was hanging above my bed. That photo gave me hope. It overwhelmed me with a feeling of being special enough a person, that another person who had reached the top would acknowledge me, and share a few encouraging words. "To Rick, lots of luck pal . . . Jack Dempsey".
I'd written in my letter that I was going to be a pro fighter (I was twelve), like I'm sure a lot of kids do. Dempsey made me believe I could do it, if I wanted it. And I did. In my own young mind I made myself believe that Dempsey believed I could do it, so why I shouldn't I believe that. It's funny the power of suggestion, I told Dempsey I was going to be a pro fighter, I didn't say a world champ, just a pro fighter. I accomplished that, and as silly as it may seem to anybody reading this, Dempsy's photo was an on going reminder of my goal. I would see it every morning when I woke up , and every night when I went to bed.
Sadly, there are few Jack Dempsey's walking the planet, but you can still find that type of athlete in the ring. Guys like Rodolfo "El Gato" Gonzalez, Carlos Ortiz, the great Roberto Duran (if you can close enough to him), Tyson, Emile Griffith, the late Mando Ramos, Danny Lopez, Bobby Chacon. These guys work overtime signing autographs at WBHOF events. If they agree to sign autographs for a couple of hours they end up signing for 6 or 7 hours without a break, until their hand is numb from holding the pen. They don't ask for or receive a penny. They love their fans, they don't forget, and neither do the fans.
Today, in sports memorabelia stores you see bright pro team jersey's with a players number on the back, and an impersonal signature. They sell for three figures or more. Nothing personal, just generic crap, stuff that can be "bought" anywhere. However, a picture of "Gato", or "Little Red" or "Schoolboy" Bobby, with the champs genuinely smiling and bonding with their fans is something else. And the best part is, it doesn't cost an arm or a leg, it's there for the asking.
Brian, thanks for confirming what I thought to be true of our brilliant Kobe, he's a 24 Karat pain-in-the-ass, just like 90% of today's so-called "superstars". Is Michael Jordan that way? I always thought of him as having more class than a Kobe?
-Rick Farris
iskigoe wrote:roger,
Willus died just after the Johnson fight. The last year of ketchels life he was managed by my grandfather, then Wilson Mizner,
It was Mizner who was quoted upon hearing of Ketchel's death "just count ten over him... he'll get up". Mizner is a very interesting fellow, here are some more of his quotes, maybe one of the most alltime quoted people.
A fellow who is always declaring he's no fool usually has his suspicions.
Wilson Mizner
A good listener is not only popular everywhere, but after a while he gets to know something.
Wilson Mizner
Always be nice to people on the way up; because you'll meet the same people on the way down.
Wilson Mizner
God help those who do not help themselves.
Wilson Mizner
I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education.
Wilson Mizner
Life's a tough proposition, and the first hundred years are the hardest.
Wilson Mizner
Those who welcome death have only tried it from the ears up.
Wilson Mizner
To my embarrassment I was born in bed with a lady.
"Copy from one, it's plagiarism; copy from two, it's research."
Wilson Mizner
Mizner also co owned the Brown Derdy. He is well worth googling.
WILLUS BRITT DIES OF A BROKEN HEART,
by Tad Dorgan,
. The article quotes Sunny Jim Cuffroth “That boy died of a broken heart” He was heart and soul with Ketchel in that Johnson fight. Willus saw a $1,000,000 before him if he brought home a winner, and no one ever lived who was more confident. He bet every nickel he could scrape up on Steve, and begged his friends to get on, too. When Ketchel dropped the champion in the 12th round, Willus saw fortune before him. Six seconds later his little champion was stretched out on the floor before him
KI
iskigoe wrote:A drama critic is a person who surprises the playwright by informing him what he meant.
Wilson Mizner
A fellow who is always declaring he's no fool usually has his suspicions.
Wilson Mizner
A good listener is not only popular everywhere, but after a while, he knows something.
Wilson Mizner
A slave has but one master. An ambition man, has as many as there are people who helped him get his fortune.
Wilson Mizner
All anger is not sinful, because some degree of it, and on some occasions, is inevitable. But it becomes sinful and contradicts the rule of Scripture when it is conceived upon slight and inadequate provocation, and when it continues long.
Wilson Mizner
Always be nice to people on the way up; because you'll meet the same people on the way down.
Wilson Mizner
Art is science made clear.
Wilson Mizner
Be nice to people on your way up because you'll meet them on your way down.
Wilson Mizner
Copy from one, it's plagiarism; copy from two, it's research.
Wilson Mizner
Do not be desirous of having things done quickly. Do not look at small advantages. Desire to have things done quickly prevents their being done thoroughly. Looking at small advantages prevents great affairs from being accomplished.
Wilson Mizner
Don't talk about yourself; it will be done when you leave.
Wilson Mizner
Failure has gone to his head.
Wilson Mizner
Gambling: The sure way of getting nothing for something.
Wilson Mizner
God help those who do not help themselves.
Wilson Mizner
Hollywood is a sewer with service from the Ritz Carlton.
Wilson Mizner
I can usually judge a fellow by what he laughs at.
Wilson Mizner
I hate careless flattery, the kind that exhausts you in your efforts to believe it.
Wilson Mizner
I know of no sentence that can induce such immediate and brazen lying as the one that begins, 'Have you read - .'
Wilson Mizner
I respect faith, but doubt is what gives you an education.
Wilson Mizner
I'd rather know a square guy than own a square mile.
Wilson Mizner
iskigoe wrote:Roger,
Runyon as wrote that my grandfather hated that fight because it was a fake. I believe it was on the train ride home Hype was fired and Mizner took over completly. Clay Moyle just wrote a well written and researched book on langford confirming this. They were using this fight to set up a big payday in San Francisco.
Hype Igoe is NO STARRY EYED-BOOB SPORTS WRITER.
An article to let the younger writers know how he felt about his old friend. In the heart of the article Damon tells how he did not mind a good fake fight. If he knew in advance. He thought it took great skill to make a fake fight look real. But Hypus had no taste for them. “I can see him now” Runyon says, in the lobby after a pugilistic hoaxing doing, a little soft shoe dance in the manner of old vaudeville dance teams, and singing their familiar refrain:
“ OH, DANIEL O’LEARY, and BARNEY McCoy—“
It was Hype’s way of saying the meeting was in the nature of a dance. Its from this little song that Hype used to sing. That the term “a Barney”came as meaning a fake fight, and a real one would be called “The Real McCoy”.
He ends his article by writing. Stanley Ketchel was Hype’s favorite prizefighter, just as has been reported, and undoubtably thought Ketchel was pretty good. He did not think he was good enough, however, to beat Sam Langford, and it may be that Hype’s tolerance toward my high regard for fakes, went back to that night in Philadelp hia. When he still had some kind of connection with the management of Ketchel, and the Tar Baby carried The Michigan Assassin for six rounds.
Its was on the train ride home from this fight, I believe the two part ways. I will again quote a story told by Damon Runyon. “ One of Hype’s pals was the celebrated Wilson Mizner. When the great middleweight champion Stanley Ketchel, always Hype’s fighting ideal. Came to NY Hype had some managerial claim on him. He took Ketchel to Philadelphia for a fight, and returning was sitting in a Pullman drawing room, with a table before him. When in came Ketchel, and threw the two six-pistols he loved to carry, in front of Hype. I want to talk a little business to you Hype “he said”I think I prefer having Wilson Mizner as my manager from now on. That's fine “said Hype” eyeing the guns. And that's the way it was till Ketchel got shot and killed by a jealous husband down in Missouri.
