Mike Tyson's greatest fight?

[bennie]

Personally, and somewhat perversely (given he'd been on the slippery slope for years), Mike Tyson's second fight with Frank Bruno in 1996 is Iron Mike at his very best in my humble opinion. It was a more complete Tyson than I'd ever seen before (and would ever see again). He combined his natural ferocity with remarkable maturity and control. Bruno found himself fighting a sharper Tyson than the man he'd faced years earlier!
Mickey Duff always said a great fighter who's over the hill can still find one last great performance. Tyson found it.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Hmm difficult one this.

His demolition of Larry Holmes was pretty impressive, especially with hindsight, he literally smashed Holmes to pieces. I know that Larry was out of the ring for 2 years, and probably wasn't in the best of shape, but I still don't think anyone else could have done that to him. When you consider that a few years later, Holmes beat Mercer with ease, and you look at the murders Mercer gave Lewis and Holyfield, Tyson's crushing win over even an underprepared Holmes is a testament to his prowess at his peak.

[MightyWarrior]

Gotta be Spinks I guess, though the ex light heavy king was a major disappointment that night. A rabbit in the headlights.

I was always mightily impressed with his stunning knockout of the excellent Pinklon Thomas. I think Mike struggled early, but his knockout combination at the end was just awesome. I think old Reg commented "and here it comes, the first punch of a landslide.."

I've never seen someone hit with such a brutal array of shots in 5 short seconds.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Spinks was beat before he entered the ring. He was sweating profusely, and he looked like a man heading to the gallows. He was also not in the best of shape, and let's face it, he was lucky to catch an ageing Holmes

I think there were plenty of heavyweights who could have beaten Spinks that night, Spinks looked like he had trained at a Dunkin' Donuts, and I think he decided long before enterting the ring that the fight was a big mismatch.

Holmes, despite being out of shape, really fancied his chances and actually gave Mike quite a few problems until he found his range. Holmes went down like a trapdoor had opened underneath him after the last knockdown.

Agreed, the Pinklon Thomas and Trevor Berbick wins were excellent, but neither man was what you would call a really top heavyweight champ. I guess they were on the same sort of level as someone like Ruiz. Good fighters, but peripheral champions.

Having said all this, the fact that I believe that Tyson's most impressive win is against a 40 year old fighter who was out of the ring for 2 years, shows that Tyson' despite the ferocity of his first reign, really didn't have the best level of competition. I wish he had faced Lewis/Bowe/Mercer near his prime.

[MightyWarrior]

I felt for Holmes that night. Out on his feet and against the ropes, he tries one last desparation uppercut, but his arm hooks onto the ropes as he tries to throw it, leaving him open to Tyson's booming finishing punch.

Larry admitted years later, that on his way to the ring to face Tyson, for the first time in his life he considered bolting in the opposite direction.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Yes, that really was bad luck, however, I don't see any way he could have survived that onslaught.

One thing I will say for Tyson, despite his flaws, he was the most clinical finisher I ever saw in his prime, at heavyweight anyway. The one thing which would have given him a good chance against any heavyweight in history, is that if he hurt them and they were out on their feet, I don't think anyone could have survived with him, outside perhaps of Ali, who had the smarts to hang in there.

I wonder whether Larry could have dealt with Mike even in his prime, it's one of those contests I would have loved to have scene. Worth nothing though, Mike never beat as complete a fighter as Holmes, not at their peak.

[bennie]

I felt for Holmes that night. Out on his feet and against the ropes, he tries one last desparation uppercut, but his arm hooks onto the ropes as he tries to throw it, leaving him open to Tyson's booming finishing punch.

Good spot, MW. That scene always makes me laugh. In 1979, Holmes was in a similar position against Mike Weaver at Madison Square Garden and produced the same right uppercut to effectively finish the fight.
His luck ran out against Tyson.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Never seen the weaver fight, was Holmes down in that one? Thinking about it, there are quite a few Holmes fights I haven't seen, must get some on video.

[bennie]

Never seen the weaver fight, was Holmes down in that one? Thinking about it, there are quite a few Holmes fights I haven't seen, must get some on video.

Weaver wobbled him and had him in severe trouble on the ropes when Holmes produced a classic right uppercut to floor the muscled ex-con in the 11th. The bell saved him but he was still gone in the 12th and the referee soon stepped in to save him. Great fight.

[DIRT SUGAR]

Yeah, and the shot that Shavers put Holmes down with in their rematch was the kind of shot that Lennox Lewis would never have got up from... in a week... let alone come back and win.

Tyson's win over an undefeated, in-shape Tony Tucker was pretty good too when you look at how Tucker troubled Lewis six years later in 1993, when he'd had drug problems and was nowhere near as sharp.

That's the thing. The young, fully-fit Tyson of the pre Spinks era would have competed and more than likely beat the likes of Lewis and Holyfield and Bowe, but it just didn't happen. I mean, even a totally bored, unfit Tyson beat a peak Razor Ruddock twice.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Razor Ruddock was never a truly world class fighter though.

Didn't tucker have the misfortune to break his hand early in the fight with Tyson, he basically used nothing but the jab for the whole fight. Tucker was the first fighter to show that Tyson could be contained, though in doing so Tucker gave away almost every round.

Shame about Tucker, lacked the discipline to make the most of his talents, but hardly the first boxer to be guilty of that, nor the first anything.

[bugs]

Yeah but you cant compare Ruddock with Lewis or Holyfield. He was simply not in the same class.

Tyson never beat anybody as good as himself, whereas we can see that both Lewis and Holyfield beat him, and obviously Lewis beat Holfield (twice IMO). Lewis for me beats Tyson any time any age.

Also the two times Lewis got knocked out (only times he lost) nobody would've got up from them.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I reckon Holmes would have made it up to continue, and Ali.

I think the peak Tyson would have gone right through Lewis. He was too quick and would have gotten inside that jab and taken Lewis to pieces.

Lewis was never really that good under pressure, and did best against slower foes. Tyson's speed for me would have been the difference.

However, I still rate Lewis as the better heavyweight champion.

[KOJOE90]

Mickey Duff always said a great fighter who's over the hill can still find one last great performance.

The late Eddie Futch said the same thing.

I always thought Tyson lookes good against Tyrell Biggs and Pinklon Thomas, although Thomas did give Tyson some problems with his excellent jab.

Althought it only lasted one round Tyson showed some gread defencive moves against the ex-con Reggie Gross IMO.

[jamesmcdonnell]

The pre Spinks Tyson was pretty hard to hit, this is often overlooked. By the time Tyson got to Douglas, a lot of the head movement and little feints had gone.

[bugs]

Tyson looked great in the early years, almost unstopabble. But, he never fought anybody with a great all-round game, then as he got older and had to take those fights, he lost.
I think he was a more exiting fighter than most, but not as good as lot, Lewis would've fought the same fight with the same result ten years earlier.

[jamesmcdonnell]

That is the great shame, Tyson lost all the defining fights of his career, and never really showcased his talent in his prime. By the time he got to the big names he was already past his peak.

Had Tyson beaten either Holyfield, lewis or Bowe, I would have rated him so much higher.

For what it's worth, I would have given Tyson a much better shot against Holy had they fought first time around, than the second. Although Holy appeared shot, Tyson's lack of movement and defence left him wide open to Holy, who by then was a fully grown heavy. The holy of around 1990 was nowhere near as filled out.

[KOJOE90]

That is the great shame, Tyson lost all the defining fights of his career,

What about the Spinks KO, ok Spinks froze but it was still a defining fight.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Spinks' performance was so lacklustre that I find it hard to make that a defining fight. Spinks was clearly shit scared of Mike Tyson.

[KOJOE90]

Spinks' performance was so lacklustre that I find it hard to make that a defining fight. Spinks was clearly shit scared of Mike Tyson.

True Spinks froze with fear and unlike his fight against Qawi the fear got the better of him with Tyson.

However I still think it was a defining fight for Tyson regardless of the opponents performance. Spinks was scared for a reason, he didn't just fall over for no reason. The fear was the effect Tyson had on him. If you get my drift.

[bennie]

I feel you have to call Spinks a defining fight. It defined the fact Tyson was a monster in 1988, his peak year.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I suppose you could say it was testament to his snarling menace, that Spinks, a man who had dismantled the giant Gerry Cooney a year earlier was so terrified that he capitulated in pretty much the meekest fashion possible, without landing a single significant blow on Tyson.

[harley_man]

Tyson never beat anybody as good as himself.

That's a great epitaph for his career, and an astute assessment of how he ranks.

He would have gotten no credit for beating Douglas but in losing Douglas goes down in legend for that one night because his was a masterful performance, regardless of whether most of us see that Tyson as slightly diminished and unfocused, mostly by the circus going on outside the ring in his personal life (Robin Givens, death of Jacobs, succumbing to King's influence).

Most of his early wins were phenomenal. All but a few of his championship opponents were greatly overmatched so he doesn't get his due. At 19-20 he made those guys look horrible. He should get serious credit for that. But he doesn't have a Douglas-like win of his own.

It's the Holyfield loss that clarifies it for me. Again, a diminshed but still very good Tyson was taken apart by a guy who can say he pulled out wins we weren't expecting. Tyson always carried a heavy burden of expectation. He needed to get up off the canvas to KO Douglas or Holyfield.

But I can still go back to those early days and say, damn, that Tyson would challenge any great ever. Not necessarily win but...

[stujones]

For me Tyson best performance came against Pinklon Thomas and Tyrell Biggs - Thomas was widely considered to be the second best Heavyweight in the world at the time, having recovered well from his upset loss to Berbick a few years previous. I think it was Ring magazine who said words to the effect of "Thomas is the only fighter who could beat Tyson". I think Thomas could have been a longstanding champion if it wasn't for Tyson being there. Tyson destroyed him, I'll never forget the blood pouring out of Thomas' mouth when Tyson landed those final body punch onslaught.

Tyrell Biggs of course, gave Tyson alot of Verbals before the match and of course was a 1984 Olympic medalist (Gold?) and I believe had some sort of rivalary with Tyson in the amateurs. Well, Tyson crucified Biggs with a display of cruelty that sort of rivaled that of Muhammad Ali vs Ernie Terrel and Floyd Patterson.

On those two nights, Tyson would have beaten anybody.

Tyson's victories over Holmes, Spinks and Williams (Carl) also stand out and his victory over Savarese showed all the hallmarks of the 1986-1989 Tyson.