Foreman 1991 Versus...

[Robinson]

Hey lads

How do you think Old George does in these match ups...

12 rounds, no 3 knock down rule.

Joe Frazier (1972) can old man George repeat what he did in his youth?

George Foreman (1972) youth vs maturity and experience...

Jack Johnson (1910) can Johnson tame the big Foreman...

James J Jeffries (1899) how would the boiler maker do against the griller?

Rocky Marciano (1953) the hard nosed mauler versus the soft bellied slugger..

James J Corbett (1892) the original boxer versus the walking fortress...

Jersey Joe Walcott (1947) he almost upset Louis, can he use his craftiness on the preacher...

Ezzard Charles (1950) the clever boxing Charles versus the patient puncher...

How do you see them playing out ??

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

Hey lads

How do you think Old George does in these match ups...

- Not going to bother with George vs George.

Big George handles Frazier, Jeff, and Rocky. Corbett, JJoe, and Ezzy could present footwork problems if they're savvy. Oddly enough, the only fighter who ever got off lightly against George was Morrison. Go figure as Tommy shamelessly refused direct engagement, preferring to pop and move. It wasn't a real fight, it was ugly, but it was the smart way to go.

[dempseyfire]

Old Foreman isn't beating any of those guys, besides perhaps his younger self as the 1974 Foreman might be a little freaked out at seeing his chubbier bald self twenty years later and freeze . . . .

[Ezzard]

Old Foreman isn't beating any of those guys, besides perhaps his younger self as the 1974 Foreman might be a little freaked out at seeing his chubbier bald self twenty years later and freeze . . . .

agreed

[The Great John L]

Old Foreman isn't beating any of those guys, besides perhaps his younger self as the 1974 Foreman might be a little freaked out at seeing his chubbier bald self twenty years later and freeze . . . .

Sounds about right. A better question would be how would 1991 Foreman have done against Orlin Norris or Mike Hunter?

[HomicideHenry]

Joe Frazier (1972) can old man George repeat what he did in his youth?

Frazier would have punched his way to a decision

George Foreman (1972) youth vs maturity and experience...

George manages to defeat his former self in the ring

Jack Johnson (1910) can Johnson tame the big Foreman...

Foreman has an entertaining fight with Johnson, but loses a decision

James J Jeffries (1899) how would the boiler maker do against the griller?

The Boilermaker makes the beating Alex Stewart gave Foreman look like child's play

Rocky Marciano (1953) the hard nosed mauler versus the soft bellied slugger..

Marciano's work rate is simply too much for Foreman who picks shots when he can

James J Corbett (1892) the original boxer versus the walking fortress...

Corbett, lasts the distance, but Foreman scored two KD's to win a decision

Jersey Joe Walcott (1947) he almost upset Louis, can he use his craftiness on the preacher...

Ezzard Charles (1950) the clever boxing Charles versus the patient puncher...

Foreman couldnt have hit both Walcott or Charles with a handful of salt, let alone have a chance in chasing them down.

[hhaehre]

Second career Foreman is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay overrated. It was great when he landed his Hail Mary puch against Moorer but come on. The second career was a masterpiece of matchmaking and PR work but George was a mere shadow of what he had been in '72. Frazier would have pounded '91 George for a wide ud and '72 George would have knocked out the '91 version.

[The Great John L]

Second career Foreman is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay overrated. It was great when he landed his Hail Mary puch against Moorer but come on. The second career was a masterpiece of matchmaking and PR work but George was a mere shadow of what he had been in '72. Frazier would have pounded '91 George for a wide ud and '72 George would have knocked out the '91 version.

Finally someone else who understands the second coming of George. There were no Mike Hunters on the run up to his title shot.

[Ambling Alp]

Considering how old Foreman was, he did great in his comeback. Of course most of the competition was pretty weak. However, he did manage to win the heavyweight title, lucky punch or not. He also gave a prime Holyfield more trouble than you would think he would have.
For what it's worth, he was probably the best 40-something heavyweight ever.

However, some people do go way over board. He would have had no more than about a 10% "punchers chance" to beat anyone mentioned.
He was easy to hit, and couldn't fight at a fast pace. He also couldn't jump on a hurt opponent like he used to.

[Robinson]

Thanks guys for your replies.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Hey lads

How do you think Old George does in these match ups...

12 rounds, no 3 knock down rule.

Joe Frazier (1972) can old man George repeat what he did in his youth?

George Foreman (1972) youth vs maturity and experience...

Jack Johnson (1910) can Johnson tame the big Foreman...

James J Jeffries (1899) how would the boiler maker do against the griller?

Rocky Marciano (1953) the hard nosed mauler versus the soft bellied slugger..

James J Corbett (1892) the original boxer versus the walking fortress...

Jersey Joe Walcott (1947) he almost upset Louis, can he use his craftiness on the preacher...

Ezzard Charles (1950) the clever boxing Charles versus the patient puncher...

How do you see them playing out ??

Frazier out-works Foreman for a UD.

Young Foreman brutalises old Foreman. KO early.

Foreman eventually over-powers & knocks out Johnson late. Johnson ahead on cards at the time.

Jeffries, like Frazier, is too busy, & cannot be bullied by Foreman's strength. Jeffries UD.

Marciano survives a knockdown to either win a decision or stop Foreman on his stool in the later rounds.

Corbett is too slick & smart for Foreman, winning a UD going away. Slight chance for Foreman, as he certainly had the punch.

Walcott too crafty for Foreman. Wins a UD.

Charles, also, just a little too smart. Never walks into the Moorer shot, & wins a UD.

1991 George Foreman's record: 1-7-0 (1 KO). Ouch

[dempseyfire]

Hey lads

How do you think Old George does in these match ups...

12 rounds, no 3 knock down rule.

Joe Frazier (1972) can old man George repeat what he did in his youth?

George Foreman (1972) youth vs maturity and experience...

Jack Johnson (1910) can Johnson tame the big Foreman...

James J Jeffries (1899) how would the boiler maker do against the griller?

Rocky Marciano (1953) the hard nosed mauler versus the soft bellied slugger..

James J Corbett (1892) the original boxer versus the walking fortress...

Jersey Joe Walcott (1947) he almost upset Louis, can he use his craftiness on the preacher...

Ezzard Charles (1950) the clever boxing Charles versus the patient puncher...

How do you see them playing out ??

Frazier out-works Foreman for a UD.

Young Foreman brutalises old Foreman. KO early.

Foreman eventually over-powers & knocks out Johnson late. Johnson ahead on cards at the time.

Jeffries, like Frazier, is too busy, & cannot be bullied by Foreman's strength. Jeffries UD.

Marciano survives a knockdown to either win a decision or stop Foreman on his stool in the later rounds.

Corbett is too slick & smart for Foreman, winning a UD going away. Slight chance for Foreman, as he certainly had the punch.

Walcott too crafty for Foreman. Wins a UD.

Charles, also, just a little too smart. Never walks into the Moorer shot, & wins a UD.

1991 George Foreman's record: 1-7-0 (1 KO). Ouch

Come on, George knocks out a prime Johnson? Not in a million years! Johnson would beat slow plodding Foreman easily, and old Foreman didn't have the stamina of Willard even if we're setting up some crazy 45 round duration.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Johnson bullied & buried little men, & made a career of it. He never saw anything close to Foreman. He's not over-powering Foreman, he's not hurting him, either. Johnson was a flat-footed boxer, & one who relied as much on tying up his opposition as he did hurting them. He can't pull any of his regular trickery on, as Robinson ably testified, the walking fortress which is the 90's Foreman. I find it equally implausible, btw, that the 90's Foreman possibly beats his prime self amongst your picks.

Nevertheless, it ain't often you & I cross swords on a topic, Demps, but we have a fundamental difference of opinion on Jack Johnson --- you're suitably impressed by what you see, I'm largely not.

[dempseyfire]

Johnson bullied & buried little men, & made a career of it. He never saw anything close to Foreman. He's not over-powering Foreman, he's not hurting him, either. Johnson was a flat-footed boxer, & one who relied as much on tying up his opposition as he did hurting them. He can't pull any of his regular trickery on, as Robinson ably testified, the walking fortress which is the 90's Foreman. I find it equally implausible, btw, that the 90's Foreman possibly beats his prime self amongst your picks.

Nevertheless, it ain't often you & I cross swords on a topic, Demps, but we have a fundamental difference of opinion on Jack Johnson --- you're suitably impressed by what you see, I'm largely not.

Willard wasn't anything close to an old Foreman? THe guy was a huge man with a KO punch and decent athleticism, and an old overweight Johnson kicked his ass for 20 rounds, using combinations and some excellent counter-punching. Watch what's available of the Willard fight and the whole Ketchel fight, slowed down if you can. It is not just a flat-footed guy punching and clinching . . you can see a guy with incredible skills (as noted by anyone who saw him, unless they were all on drugs on drunk) and who was incredibly quick with his counters or via side-stepping blows. Old Foreman has the perfect style to get beat on all day by Johnson.

The likes of Martin,McVey,Jeanette,Moran, and Haynes were not 'little men' and some were bigger than Johnson, and he beat them all.

[Goodnight, Irene]

He ran from McVey, Jeanette, & Langford as they grew in formidable status, & we both know that. Johnson fought largely flat-footed, & wasn't any more manouevrable than Moorer. I also don't hold Johnson's durability in the same regard you do, nor do I accept the argument Willard is close to the 90's Foreman.

[dempseyfire]

He ran from McVey, Jeanette, & Langford as they grew in formidable status, & we both know that. Johnson fought largely flat-footed, & wasn't any more manouevrable than Moorer. I also don't hold Johnson's durability in the same regard you do, nor do I accept the argument Willard is close to the 90's Foreman.

He ran from McVey and Jeannette?? I don't think so. He had several fights with both of them including after they had had fair experience on the top level and completly dominated everytime. He practically taught Jeannette how to box when they toured the country. I don't see Jack quivering in his boots about facing them again. He should've fought Langford after he won the title but considering the 30 lb weight disparity would've stayed (b/c as Langford grew heavier so did Johnson) and how Johnson completly spanked Sam in their first fight, I don't see the great Langford doing substantially better in a rematch.

[Goodnight, Irene]

P.S. Demps, I would love to get your response on the Hyopethetical Match-up Game thread next

[raylawpc]

He ran from McVey, Jeanette, & Langford as they grew in formidable status, & we both know that. Johnson fought largely flat-footed, & wasn't any more manouevrable than Moorer. I also don't hold Johnson's durability in the same regard you do, nor do I accept the argument Willard is close to the 90's Foreman.

He ran from McVey and Jeannette?? I don't think so. He had several fights with both of them including after they had had fair experience on the top level and completly dominated everytime. He practically taught Jeannette how to box when they toured the country. I don't see Jack quivering in his boots about facing them again. He should've fought Langford after he won the title but considering the 30 lb weight disparity would've stayed (b/c as Langford grew heavier so did Johnson) and how Johnson completly spanked Sam in their first fight, I don't see the great Langford doing substantially better in a rematch.

I have ringside accounts from Boston of the Langford-Johnson fight. Johnson did not "spank" him according to these accounts. It was a good competitive bout that the bigger man won, but was not a "spanking."

[alexpaterson]

12 rounds, no 3 knock down rule.
m
Joe Frazier (1972) Ko still has raw power

George Foreman (1972) Tough won to call probaly Old George cleverer and more ring craft

Jack Johnson (1910) To big and strong for Johnson

James J Jeffries (1899) Jeffries win outworking him UD

Rocky Marciano (1953) Marciano would tire George out and the last 3 rounds i think George would be holding on when the rock goes for it late KO for Rocky

James J Corbett (1892) Close one to call

Jersey Joe Walcott (1947) George KO

Ezzard Charles (1950) Again close

Ali (1971) Ali would still win outspeed him Mid KO

[The Great John L]

George Foreman (1972) Tough won to call probaly Old George cleverer and more ring craft

Yes old George was much more clever with his match making, public relations and finances. And of course, in the ring there was a lot more of him.

[hhaehre]

12 rounds, no 3 knock down rule.
m
Joe Frazier (1972) Ko still has raw power

George still had good power in 91 but nothing like 72, not even close.