Classic American West Coast Boxing

raylawpc
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by raylawpc »

Expug wrote:I remember you posting that story of Spud before Rog.
Its very sad . Very poignant.
Father and son teams I suppose can be very tricky.
Frank and his boys probably have had the best combination of Father and sons in boxing history.
The other ones Im familiar with seem to have gotten shaky at times.
Ray could probably give us some insight into the Pat and Sean O'Grady combination.
Ive heard it was at times a bit rocky.
Something about Sean fighting Andy Gannigan and a WAA title or something.
Its a tough situation if you have been a fighter and your boy wants to fight. You want whats best, so you want to be very involved.
However, being a trainer and manager is more then throwing a towel over your shoulder and making a few phone calls.
This game aint a maypole dance thats for sure.
During the period I was with them, Sean and Pat had a very good relationship. I got away from boxing in 1978 when I started law school. When Sean won the title, got stripped of it, and then lost to Gannigan, I was busy trying to get into my legal career, working 80-hour weeks. After I got a bit more established with my career, Sean and I became briefly reacquainted in the mid-1980s before I moved to St. Louis in 1986.

I, too, have heard that Sean and his Dad had problems pertaining to the whole debacle with the WBA, but Sean and I never discussed it. I tend to discount these rumors. I stayed in some contact with Sean's sister Colleen during this period, and she certainly never mentioned any problems to me.

During the period I worked with them, Sean worshipped the ground that his father walked on, and would do anything his father told him to do. Interestingly, Pat seemed to give Sean more rope than the other fighters. For example, Pat was kind of "Mel Epstein"-ish when it came to women, but Sean always had a pretty girlfriend and no complaints from Dad.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Rick Farris »

raylawpc wrote:
Expug wrote:I remember you posting that story of Spud before Rog.
Its very sad . Very poignant.
Father and son teams I suppose can be very tricky.
Frank and his boys probably have had the best combination of Father and sons in boxing history.
The other ones Im familiar with seem to have gotten shaky at times.
Ray could probably give us some insight into the Pat and Sean O'Grady combination.
Ive heard it was at times a bit rocky.
Something about Sean fighting Andy Gannigan and a WAA title or something.
Its a tough situation if you have been a fighter and your boy wants to fight. You want whats best, so you want to be very involved.
However, being a trainer and manager is more then throwing a towel over your shoulder and making a few phone calls.
This game aint a maypole dance thats for sure.
During the period I was with them, Sean and Pat had a very good relationship. I got away from boxing in 1978 when I started law school. When Sean won the title, got stripped of it, and then lost to Gannigan, I was busy trying to get into my legal career, working 80-hour weeks. After I got a bit more established with my career, Sean and I became briefly reacquainted in the mid-1980s before I moved to St. Louis in 1986.

I, too, have heard that Sean and his Dad had problems pertaining to the whole debacle with the WBA, but Sean and I never discussed it. I tend to discount these rumors. I stayed in some contact with Sean's sister Colleen during this period, and she certainly never mentioned any problems to me.

During the period I worked with them, Sean worshipped the ground that his father walked on, and would do anything his father told him to do. Interestingly, Pat seemed to give Sean more rope than the other fighters. For example, Pat was kind of "Mel Epstein"-ish when it came to women, but Sean always had a pretty girlfriend and no complaints from Dad.
I remember seeing Sean at the Main St. Gym preparing to fight Danny Lopez. Sean already had more than thirty fights under his belt and was unbeaten, however, he had yet to fight anybody of note. We didn't know that Sean was only sixteen at the time, his father obviously had gotten him a phony birth certifcate. I remember seeing Sean at the gym and although he was a decent fighter, he had no business in the ring at that stage with a Danny Lopez. I recall there being shamrocks all over the Main St. publicizing this fight, I just shook my head. I thought to myself, "that kid's father has a lot of guts throwing his teenage kid in with Danny". Sure enough, Danny ended Sean's unbeaten streak and KO's him in the process. Sean fought a fight he had no chance of winning and did so like a man. I would have liked to have seen old man Pat tossed in with Danny's older brother, Ernie. Lets see what pop would do when he had his ass whipped. Sean continued to win and would take a title. Here's a good looking kid who had a lot of fights at a young age and then became one of the better TV boxing anylists. I don't think Sean did well because of his father Pat, but inspite of him. Hey Tom, I remember seeing Sean's sisters on TV, sitting ringside for his fights. They were beautiful women.

-Rick Farris
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Expug »

Rick, Sean fought here in Chicago, his last fight, on the Johnny Collins-Lenny Lapaglia card.
He was stopped by Johnny "The Heat" Verderosa.
Prior to that fight, there were publicity photos all over our gym with shamrocks etc all over them for Sean .
There were even some put in the Irish bar I was bouncing at also.
At this point in time I was fighting also and had sparred with Lapaglia quite a bit.
It was a bit unnerving when Sean was taking shots from Verderosa, his sisters were very upset at ringside.
I wasnt there, but you could hear them on tv.
I felt bad for Sean in that fight.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by scartissue »

It was one of the worst management strategems I've seen in boxing when, with the WBA pushing their #1 contender Claude Noel on the O'Grady's, Pat balks at it. Of course I don't know the entire story behind it but Sean would have eaten Claude Noel for breakfast. But Pat breaks away and forms his WAA (World Athletic Assn.), installs Sean as lightweight champ and signs him up against the far more dangerous Andy Ganigan only to be creamed in 2 rounds. It was the kind of KO one does not recover from. Indeed, Sean wrote an article (co-written) called, 'suddenly I couldn't take a punch anymore'. Pat even made his new son-in-law Monte Masters the new WAA heavyweight champ, which I heard, comically, when he divorced his daughter, Pat stripped him of his title. Oh. man, that's a first.

Scartissue
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by kikibalt »

scartissue wrote:Guys, I don't know if you've seen it, but Raul Macias passed away yesterday. Anyone have any info on him or special memories???

Scartissue
Raul “Raton” Macias – 1st boxing Idol of Mexico has died Mexico’s first ever boxing Idol died this past Monday, March 23, 2009 at 74 years of age of cancer. Former N.B.A. Bantamweight Champion Raul Raton Macias is known in many circles as the First of the many greats to come out of Mexico including Ruben Oliveras, Lupe Pintor, Salvatore Sanchez and Julio Cesar Chavez among others. The country would stop to listen to all of his fights. Over 50,000 people showed up at the bull ring to watch him beat US fighter Nate Brooks in 1954. Raul was born on July 28, 1934 in Tepito a small suburb of Mexico City which is known as one of the toughest neighborhoods in the country and as the birthplace of many champions. His two older brothers Gaby and Jose were professional fighters and Raul learned to fight under their guidance. Macias started to box when he was eleven years old and at twelve was able to hold his own in sparring sessions with many pro fighters who trained at the gym. He got his nickname Raton, which means mouse in Spanish, when a visitor to the gym saw him dart between the legs of a heavyweight with whom he was boxing. He retired from the ring at age 24 in 1959. Although he remained retired he did return for one fight on a special benefit show in Guadalajara, Mexico on October 13, 1962. Fighting a six rounder he kayoed Chocolate Zambrano in five rounds. The win brought his final ring record to 36-2-0, with 22 knockouts.

Raul (Raton) Macias
by Dan Cuoco

Image
Raul was born on July 28, 1934 in Tepito a small suburb of Mexico City. His two older brothers Gaby and Jose were professional fighters and Raul learned to fight under their guidance.

Macias started to box when he was eleven years old and at twelve was able to hold his own in sparring sessions with many pro fighters who trained at the gym. He got his nickname Raton, which means mouse in Spanish, when a visitor to the gym saw him dart between the legs of a heavyweight with whom he was boxing.

At 14 Macias began his amateur career and won the junior flyweight title of Mexico. The following year he won the flyweight championship and repeated in 1950 and 1951. In 1951 he also won the bantamweight title, and the Central American bantamweight crown, which qualified him for the Pan-American games held in Argentina, in which he finished third.

In 1952 Raton retained his Mexican and Central American bantamweight honors and was selected to represent Mexico in the Olympic games at Helsinki. He reached the second series before losing.

He turned pro the following year. Unlike most fighters, 18 year-old Raul started fighting main events from the very beginning. He made his professional debut on April 15, 1953 by outpointing the highly rated Cuban, Manuel Armenteros in ten rounds. In his next outing he defeated the veteran Trini Ruiz, over ten rounds.

At this time Edel Ojeda, the Mexican bantamweight champion, announced his retirement and the Mexican Commission launched an elimination tournament to find a successor. Those named to compete were former champion Luis Castillo, the flyweight ruler; Otillo Galvan, the ex-flyweight king; Raul Solis, Baby Rivera, Emilio de la Rosa, Genaro Sarafin, Beto Couary and Raton. There were some protests over the inclusion of Macias, because he only had two pro fights, but after taking into consideration his brilliant amateur record he was included.

Raton advanced to the finals by defeating Galvan and Serafin. In the finals against Beto Couary, Macias turned in a brilliant demonstration of speed and ringcraft to win in a breeze. In only his fifth pro fight he was champion of Mexico.

Macias’ rapid rise continued. In his next three fights he won by decision and kayo over Chilean champion Alberto Reyes and by seventh round kayo over former North American bantam titleholder Billy Peacock. After eight professional fights Macias was the number four-ranked contender in the Ring ratings. At this stage of his career the then 19 year-old wunderkind wasn’t considered a hard hitter. He was characterized as a clever boxer who hit sharply with either hand, and was strong and durable.

Macias continued to hone his skills by taking two decisions over the clever and durable Fili Nava, and winning the North American Bantamweight Title from 1952 Olympic Flyweight Gold Medalist Nate Brooks. His victory over Brooks took place in Mexico City before a crowd of over 50,000 wildly partisan Macias’ fans. Macias easily defeated Brooks with an incessant body attack which beat Brooks into complete submission. Only Brooks’ great heart enabled him to last the 12 round distance. Brooks was nearly kayoed in the seventh round when the bell came to his rescue. He was never the same again, losing his next four fights – three by knockout.

The win over Brooks not only made Macias a national hero but also propelled him into a title fight with newly crowned champion Robert Cohen of France. Only a week earlier in Thailand, Cohen won the title vacated by Jimmy Carruthers by split decision over top contender Chamrern Songkitrat of Thailand. But before he could face Macias, he was injured in an auto accident and was out of action for nine months.

The National Boxing Association (NBA), (now known as the WBA), for reasons that continue to make no sense even today, decided to vacate Cohen’s title during his recovery and sanction a bout between number one ranked Songkitrat and Macias for the vacant NBA title. The NBA title fight received little support from other commissions.

On March 9, 1955, 20-year-old Raul Macias, in only his twelfth professional fight, won the NBA version of the title with an eleventh round stoppage of Chamrern Songkitrat at San Francisco’s Cow Palace. Macias dominated the fight with his long reach and height advantage, taking all but two rounds. He employed an excellent left jab, a thunderous left hook and powerful straight rights and just walked through his opponent. Songkitrat was down four times, three from punches and one from a low blow. The first two knockdowns occurred in the sixth round (the second from a low blow) and the final two in the eleventh round. Referee Fred Apostoli stopped the fight after the second knockdown in the eleventh when it was obvious that Songkitrat was too exhausted to continue.

As soon as Macias’ hand was raised in victory, hundreds of his fans scrambled to ringside, battered down reporter’s typewriters, waved the national Mexican flag and tossed sombreros and even a live rooster in the air to acclaim Raul the new king of the bantams. He was carried around the ring on their shoulders in a proud display of emotion.

Raul decided to remain busy and after scoring two knockouts in non-title fights he was surprisingly kayoed by former victim Billy Peacock in three rounds and suffered a broken jaw. The knockout loss was the first time Macias was ever dropped in over 300 amateur and professional bouts.

Returning to the ring, Raul showed no adverse effects and went on a 17 bout winning streak, scoring 14 knockouts. The winning streak included handing highly regarded Leo Espinosa, Juan Cardenas and Dommy Ursua their first knockout defeats - Espinosa and Ursua in NBA title fights and Cardenas in a non-title fight. He also won an easy decision over the ultra tough Tanny Campo in a ten round non-title fight.

Raul was now regarded by most boxing experts as the most dangerous and dominant bantamweight in the world.

Thus the stage was set for Raul to face Alphonse Halimi, a French-Algerian fighting out of France, for universal recognition as world champion. During Raul's reign as NBA champion, Robert Cohen, rated by all boxing bodies except the NBA as world champion, lost his title to Mario D'Agata, who in turn lost the title in his first defense to Halimi.

On November 6, 1957 the two met before a crowd of 18,385 at Los Angeles' Wrigley Field. Halimi proved his right to universal recognition as world bantamweight champion by outclassing Macias over 15 rounds. To most veteran observers the fight was one of the finest seen in the division in many years, However, to the pro Macias contingent the fight was disappointing. They had come to see him score a knockout. During the early rounds Halimi turned the battle into a slugfest. Fighting from a half crouch, he kept pressing forward tossing hooks and uppercuts to Macias' body and head. Halimi was stronger physically and made the most of his strength by maneuvering Macias into close quarters every chance he had. Raul did not back down and met him head on. Both fighters stood head-to-head, tossing punches at each other. Seldom did the referee have to separate them.

The fight was close after 10 rounds. Fearing that he would lose a close fight, Halimi switched tactics from in-fighting to long-range jabbing. His tactics paid off. Raul didn't win another round. When the decision was announced in Halimi's favor, Macias' fans were crushed. Up until that time no Mexican fighter in the history of boxing had ever been held in such high esteem by the Mexican fight fans as Macias. Macias was crushed when his fan's cheers turned to jeers. He left the ring with a look of disbelief. He was disconsolate. But he was honest and a gracious loser. He said: "The only reason I lost was because Halimi was better. He put pressure on me. I would like to fight him again, to redeem myself and Mexico." But unfortunately for Raul, the rematch never came to pass.

Raul remained out of the ring for a year and ultimately was dropped from the ratings for inactivity. He returned to the ring 369 days after his loss to Halimi as a featherweight by outpointing Kid Irapuato in Tijuana, Mexico. He followed that victory with knockout victories over Luis Trejo in Leon, Mexico and Carmen Jacobucci in Mexicali, Mexico. On February 28, 1959 he made a triumphant return to Mexico City. Before a record crowd of 16,000 adoring fans he won a ten round decision over Ernesto Parra.

Shortly after the Parra fight, Macias shocked his fans when he announced his retirement at age 24. Although he remained retired he did return for one fight on a special benefit show in Guadalajara, Mexico on October 13, 1962. Fighting a six rounder he kayoed Chocolate Zambrano in five rounds. The win brought his final ring record to 36-2-0, with 22 knockouts.
Last edited by kikibalt on 24 Mar 2009, 12:04, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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scartissue wrote:It was one of the worst management strategems I've seen in boxing when, with the WBA pushing their #1 contender Claude Noel on the O'Grady's, Pat balks at it. Of course I don't know the entire story behind it but Sean would have eaten Claude Noel for breakfast. But Pat breaks away and forms his WAA (World Athletic Assn.), installs Sean as lightweight champ and signs him up against the far more dangerous Andy Ganigan only to be creamed in 2 rounds. It was the kind of KO one does not recover from. Indeed, Sean wrote an article (co-written) called, 'suddenly I couldn't take a punch anymore'. Pat even made his new son-in-law Monte Masters the new WAA heavyweight champ, which I heard, comically, when he divorced his daughter, Pat stripped him of his title. Oh. man, that's a first.

Scartissue
All I can say is: You had to know Pat. Pat believed that Cus D'Amato was the smartest guy who ever managed a fighter, and he always told me that, if he ever got a champion, he'd manage the guy just like D'Amato managed Patterson.

But Pat forgot that there is a difference between what a manager could do in the '50s as opposed to the '80s, and a BIG difference between managing the undisputed heavyweight champion and a WBA lightweight champion. Add that to Pat's refusal to let anyone tell him what to do, and what happened with the WBA was actually quite predictable.

A couple of other things:

Regarding Pat's decision to match Sean with Danny Lopez, I never specifically talked to Pat about it (I thought it was a bad idea, but I learned early never to criticize Pat, especially when it came to Sean), but I suspect he did it for two reasons: (1) Sean needed a test. Sean blew through every fight he ever had. I don't think the kid had even lost a round in any fight - amateur or pro - to that point. Sean was beginning to feel invincible. (2) Pat saw a fight with Danny Lopez as a "no lose" situation: Beat Lopez, and Sean is suddenly a top contender, in line for a title fight. Lose to Lopez, and Sean - who had only turned 17 a couple of weeks before the fight - lost to a top contender who had just KOed Ruben Oliviares. People would blame Pat for throwing the kid in with Lopez - nobody would criticize Sean. And that's exactly what happened. The fight didn't seem to hurt Sean reputation at all - in fact, folks talked about his gutsy performance.

Regarding Sean's "meltdown" after beating Kenty. That didn't surprise me. I always expected Sean to become a world champion, but I didn't expect him to hold his title too long. Sean always talked about "winning the title," not about being "champion." Its a subtle distinction, but winning the title was his goal. When he beat Kenty, I suspect he felt that he had achieved his goal.

And regarding the O'Grady girls - yes, Rick, they were indeed beautiful. More so in person. I always liked Rosie, the youngest, who was a bit of a spitfire. I imagine Monte Masters found her to be quite a handful. But the oldest, Colleen, was just as beautiful on the inside. A very, very classy young lady.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Rick Farris »

raylawpc wrote:
scartissue wrote:It was one of the worst management strategems I've seen in boxing when, with the WBA pushing their #1 contender Claude Noel on the O'Grady's, Pat balks at it. Of course I don't know the entire story behind it but Sean would have eaten Claude Noel for breakfast. But Pat breaks away and forms his WAA (World Athletic Assn.), installs Sean as lightweight champ and signs him up against the far more dangerous Andy Ganigan only to be creamed in 2 rounds. It was the kind of KO one does not recover from. Indeed, Sean wrote an article (co-written) called, 'suddenly I couldn't take a punch anymore'. Pat even made his new son-in-law Monte Masters the new WAA heavyweight champ, which I heard, comically, when he divorced his daughter, Pat stripped him of his title. Oh. man, that's a first.

Scartissue
All I can say is: You had to know Pat. Pat believed that Cus D'Amato was the smartest guy who ever managed a fighter, and he always told me that, if he ever got a champion, he'd manage the guy just like D'Amato managed Patterson.

But Pat forgot that there is a difference between what a manager could do in the '50s as opposed to the '80s, and a BIG difference between managing the undisputed heavyweight champion and a WBA lightweight champion. Add that to Pat's refusal to let anyone tell him what to do, and what happened with the WBA was actually quite predictable.

A couple of other things:

Regarding Pat's decision to match Sean with Danny Lopez, I never specifically talked to Pat about it (I thought it was a bad idea, but I learned early never to criticize Pat, especially when it came to Sean), but I suspect he did it for two reasons: (1) Sean needed a test. Sean blew through every fight he ever had. I don't think the kid had even lost a round in any fight - amateur or pro - to that point. Sean was beginning to feel invincible. (2) Pat saw a fight with Danny Lopez as a "no lose" situation: Beat Lopez, and Sean is suddenly a top contender, in line for a title fight. Lose to Lopez, and Sean - who had only turned 17 a couple of weeks before the fight - lost to a top contender who had just KOed Ruben Oliviares. People would blame Pat for throwing the kid in with Lopez - nobody would criticize Sean. And that's exactly what happened. The fight didn't seem to hurt Sean reputation at all - in fact, folks talked about his gutsy performance.

Regarding Sean's "meltdown" after beating Kenty. That didn't surprise me. I always expected Sean to become a world champion, but I didn't expect him to hold his title too long. Sean always talked about "winning the title," not about being "champion." Its a subtle distinction, but winning the title was his goal. When he beat Kenty, I suspect he felt that he had achieved his goal.

And regarding the O'Grady girls - yes, Rick, they were indeed beautiful. More so in person. I always liked Rosie, the youngest, who was a bit of a spitfire. I imagine Monte Masters found her to be quite a handful. But the oldest, Colleen, was just as beautiful on the inside. A very, very classy young lady.

Tom . . . I have to say that I've always liked Sean O'Grady. I respected him during his career and was happy when he got out early, after a long, winning career that started at a young age. I think he is the best ringside analyst out there. Too bad HBO won't rid themselves of their usual suspects (Lampley, Merchant & company) and use Sean. He's good looking, and can articulate boxing better to fans that the other former champs HBO uses; Lewis, Jones, Foreman, etc. These guys all sound the same. Sean takes you deep inside the ring and the gym when he tells shares information.


-Rick Farris
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by raylawpc »

Rick Farris wrote:
raylawpc wrote:
scartissue wrote:It was one of the worst management strategems I've seen in boxing when, with the WBA pushing their #1 contender Claude Noel on the O'Grady's, Pat balks at it. Of course I don't know the entire story behind it but Sean would have eaten Claude Noel for breakfast. But Pat breaks away and forms his WAA (World Athletic Assn.), installs Sean as lightweight champ and signs him up against the far more dangerous Andy Ganigan only to be creamed in 2 rounds. It was the kind of KO one does not recover from. Indeed, Sean wrote an article (co-written) called, 'suddenly I couldn't take a punch anymore'. Pat even made his new son-in-law Monte Masters the new WAA heavyweight champ, which I heard, comically, when he divorced his daughter, Pat stripped him of his title. Oh. man, that's a first.

Scartissue
All I can say is: You had to know Pat. Pat believed that Cus D'Amato was the smartest guy who ever managed a fighter, and he always told me that, if he ever got a champion, he'd manage the guy just like D'Amato managed Patterson.

But Pat forgot that there is a difference between what a manager could do in the '50s as opposed to the '80s, and a BIG difference between managing the undisputed heavyweight champion and a WBA lightweight champion. Add that to Pat's refusal to let anyone tell him what to do, and what happened with the WBA was actually quite predictable.

A couple of other things:

Regarding Pat's decision to match Sean with Danny Lopez, I never specifically talked to Pat about it (I thought it was a bad idea, but I learned early never to criticize Pat, especially when it came to Sean), but I suspect he did it for two reasons: (1) Sean needed a test. Sean blew through every fight he ever had. I don't think the kid had even lost a round in any fight - amateur or pro - to that point. Sean was beginning to feel invincible. (2) Pat saw a fight with Danny Lopez as a "no lose" situation: Beat Lopez, and Sean is suddenly a top contender, in line for a title fight. Lose to Lopez, and Sean - who had only turned 17 a couple of weeks before the fight - lost to a top contender who had just KOed Ruben Oliviares. People would blame Pat for throwing the kid in with Lopez - nobody would criticize Sean. And that's exactly what happened. The fight didn't seem to hurt Sean reputation at all - in fact, folks talked about his gutsy performance.

Regarding Sean's "meltdown" after beating Kenty. That didn't surprise me. I always expected Sean to become a world champion, but I didn't expect him to hold his title too long. Sean always talked about "winning the title," not about being "champion." Its a subtle distinction, but winning the title was his goal. When he beat Kenty, I suspect he felt that he had achieved his goal.

And regarding the O'Grady girls - yes, Rick, they were indeed beautiful. More so in person. I always liked Rosie, the youngest, who was a bit of a spitfire. I imagine Monte Masters found her to be quite a handful. But the oldest, Colleen, was just as beautiful on the inside. A very, very classy young lady.

Tom . . . I have to say that I've always liked Sean O'Grady. I respected him during his career and was happy when he got out early, after a long, winning career that started at a young age. I think he is the best ringside analyst out there. Too bad HBO won't rid themselves of their usual suspects (Lampley, Merchant & company) and use Sean. He's good looking, and can articulate boxing better to fans that the other former champs HBO uses; Lewis, Jones, Foreman, etc. These guys all sound the same. Sean takes you deep inside the ring and the gym when he tells shares information.


-Rick Farris
I agree. I was always proud of the job Sean did as a boxing analyst.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Rick Farris »

raylawpc wrote:
scartissue wrote:It was one of the worst management strategems I've seen in boxing when, with the WBA pushing their #1 contender Claude Noel on the O'Grady's, Pat balks at it. Of course I don't know the entire story behind it but Sean would have eaten Claude Noel for breakfast. But Pat breaks away and forms his WAA (World Athletic Assn.), installs Sean as lightweight champ and signs him up against the far more dangerous Andy Ganigan only to be creamed in 2 rounds. It was the kind of KO one does not recover from. Indeed, Sean wrote an article (co-written) called, 'suddenly I couldn't take a punch anymore'. Pat even made his new son-in-law Monte Masters the new WAA heavyweight champ, which I heard, comically, when he divorced his daughter, Pat stripped him of his title. Oh. man, that's a first.

Scartissue
All I can say is: You had to know Pat. Pat believed that Cus D'Amato was the smartest guy who ever managed a fighter, and he always told me that, if he ever got a champion, he'd manage the guy just like D'Amato managed Patterson.

But Pat forgot that there is a difference between what a manager could do in the '50s as opposed to the '80s, and a BIG difference between managing the undisputed heavyweight champion and a WBA lightweight champion. Add that to Pat's refusal to let anyone tell him what to do, and what happened with the WBA was actually quite predictable.

A couple of other things:

Regarding Pat's decision to match Sean with Danny Lopez, I never specifically talked to Pat about it (I thought it was a bad idea, but I learned early never to criticize Pat, especially when it came to Sean), but I suspect he did it for two reasons: (1) Sean needed a test. Sean blew through every fight he ever had. I don't think the kid had even lost a round in any fight - amateur or pro - to that point. Sean was beginning to feel invincible. (2) Pat saw a fight with Danny Lopez as a "no lose" situation: Beat Lopez, and Sean is suddenly a top contender, in line for a title fight. Lose to Lopez, and Sean - who had only turned 17 a couple of weeks before the fight - lost to a top contender who had just KOed Ruben Oliviares. People would blame Pat for throwing the kid in with Lopez - nobody would criticize Sean. And that's exactly what happened. The fight didn't seem to hurt Sean reputation at all - in fact, folks talked about his gutsy performance.

Regarding Sean's "meltdown" after beating Kenty. That didn't surprise me. I always expected Sean to become a world champion, but I didn't expect him to hold his title too long. Sean always talked about "winning the title," not about being "champion." Its a subtle distinction, but winning the title was his goal. When he beat Kenty, I suspect he felt that he had achieved his goal.

And regarding the O'Grady girls - yes, Rick, they were indeed beautiful. More so in person. I always liked Rosie, the youngest, who was a bit of a spitfire. I imagine Monte Masters found her to be quite a handful. But the oldest, Colleen, was just as beautiful on the inside. A very, very classy young lady.

Tom . . . I agree that Sean needed a test, and L.A. was certainly the place to give a featherweight "a test" back in the 70's, however "Lil Red Lopez" was a death sentence. It did prove something, however, it proved that Sean was a real fighter. He brushed off his loss and resumed winning, and that's what impressed me. He will never go down in history as an all-time great, however, he was a legit world champ and he held his own in a very tough market. When I think of his match with the always rough, Andy Ganigan, I think of the Filippino southpaw flooring a prime Alexis Arguello with his booming right hook. I think Sean did himself proud. Sean came to town a high school student, at a time when Los Angeles was the "belly -of-the-beast" for world class small boxers, and he took on the best, right in his hometown. What more can you ask of a fighter?

-Rick Farris
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by raylawpc »

I agree.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by kikibalt »

More on Raul Macias who passed away in Mexico City

By James Blears

Beloved Mexican boxing great Raul Raton Macias has died at age 74.

Don Raul had been battling prostrate cancer. He fought back from a successful operation to banish this cancer seven years ago. But it returned, and he died in the Twentieth of November Hospital in Mexico City, with his family by his side.

The funeral vigil was packed with family, friends and fans including: Rafael Herrera, Jose Isidro, Pipino Cuevas, Jose Antonio Aguirre and Humberto Chiquita Gonzalez. Dozens of ornate floral tributes were brought in, hour after hour by the those who loved and admired a gentleman who was known for his warm smile, kind heart, mild manner and his colorful Guayabera shirts.

WBC Executive Director Mauricio Sulaiman said: “It is such a sad day, but also so very, very proud because of the huge turn out of Raul’s many friends, fans and the media. We so loved and admired him. He has been a friend of my Father for more years than I can remember.

“Raul packed out stadiums long before marketing and PR was introduced into boxing. He was a modest, kind and wonderful man who always did a lot of charity work and helped many people. He always said I owe it all to my Manager and the Virgin of Guadalupe, so a service is being held in the Basilica of Guadalupe to thank God for the life of this beloved man. He’s going to have his farewell with the Lady of Guadalupe ”

Raul Macias was born on July 28th 1934 in the Tepito district of Mexico City, which has produced some of Mexico’s greatest champions. He began his amateur career at fourteen winning the National Junior Flyweight, flyweight and Bantamweight titles. He won a bronze medal at the Pan American Games and fought in the Helsinki Olympics in 1952.

As a professional he won the North American Bantamweight title, defeating Olympic Flyweight Gold Medalist Nate Brooks. This happened in front of a crowd of more than 50,000 fans in Mexico City.

Then in only his twelfth professional fight, on March 9th 1955, he won the NBA version of the Wold Bantamweight Title by stopping Chamrern Songkitrat in eleven action packed rounds in San Francisco.

A stalwart of the WBC and always willing to talk about boxing, Don Raul never turned down an interview request, or a person who wanted an autograph. That says it all about the man.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Dongee »

Kiki:

I remember that the Raul Macias vs Songkitrat title fight in San Francisco established about a dozen boxing "firsts" including it being the very first ever bantam title fight that was televised nationally. Also I believe Chamrern had traveled farther than any other title contender for a championship bid. Trivia, of course.

Raul will also be remembered for his classy carriage and demeanor. The young man was definitively a class act. RIP

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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by kikibalt »

Dongee wrote:Kiki:

I remember that the Raul Macias vs Songkitrat title fight in San Francisco established about a dozen boxing "firsts" including it being the very first ever bantam title fight that was televised nationally. Also I believe Chamrern had traveled farther than any other title contender for a championship bid. Trivia, of course.

Raul will also be remembered for his classy carriage and demeanor. The young man was definitively a class act. RIP

hap navarro
Hap, I have the Macias/Songkitrat fight on DVD.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by kikibalt »

Tijuana is Not That Bad!
March 24, 2009 by Felipe Leon

Image

Every morning, I walk out of my home into a warzone where the U.S. media would like for you to believe that bodies are stacked in every street corner, hang from every light post and blood runs red along the water drains.

No, its not Iraq or Afghanistan. It’s not even some remote village in Africa being overrun by ethnic cleansing muhajadeen.

It’s Tijuana, Baja California Norte, Mexico.

A couple of days ago, Steve Kim of MaxBoxing posted on article on why he will not come to this Saturday’s “Latin Fury 8-Tijuana Thunder” PPV fight card being celebrated at the Plaza de Toros Monumental in this fair city.

I am here to tell you that Tijuana is not what everybody makes it out to be.

Beginning in September of 2008, ridiculous amounts of dead bodies began to be found in various neighborhoods to the east of the city with cryptic notes attached. The messages were warning between the warring drug cartels about staying within their territories. The death toll has considerably diminished since mid-January.

Basically what is happening in Tijuana as well as in other border cities such as Ciudad Juarez is that from the collapse of the Arellano-Felix cartel who for many years controlled the main drug corridor thru the city into the U.S., two different factions have been battling for control of the lucrative drug business.

Nothing less or nothing more than what has happened in every major metropolitan city in the world, be it Los Angeles or New York City. Just like any other sizeable city, there are neighborhoods that many law abiding citizens would not travel into, day or night. Same goes for Tijuana.

Although some innocent bystanders have been killed during the most recent drug war, the vast majority of the murdered have been the foot soldiers of each particular drug cartel. No tourist or attraction has been attempted against. It is unfortunate that anybody has to reach their end before their time.

I cross the most traveled border in the world, the San Ysidro international border between San Diego and Tijuana every day. I don’t feel anymore safer on the north side of the border than in the south. the only difference is that since Mexican President Felipe Calderon made it a priority for his administration to end the drug cartel’s strong hold on the border region, more of a military presence can be seen on the street of Tijuana in the form of paramilitary troops armed to the teeth patrolling the streets.

The Plaza de Toros Monumental in the Tijuana suburb of Playas is located clear across town from any of the violence associated with the on going drug battle.

With that said, I encourage all boxing fans that have the opportunity to visit Tijuana next Saturday night to do so to see a great night of boxing. I assure you that the only violence you are going to see is the one inside the ring.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by kikibalt »

Image
Frankie Baltazar & Bobby Chacon
"Golden State Boxers' Association" meeting today.
3-24-09
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Randyman »

raylawpc wrote:
Expug wrote:I remember you posting that story of Spud before Rog.
Its very sad . Very poignant.
Father and son teams I suppose can be very tricky.
Frank and his boys probably have had the best combination of Father and sons in boxing history.
The other ones Im familiar with seem to have gotten shaky at times.
Ray could probably give us some insight into the Pat and Sean O'Grady combination.
Ive heard it was at times a bit rocky.
Something about Sean fighting Andy Gannigan and a WAA title or something.
Its a tough situation if you have been a fighter and your boy wants to fight. You want whats best, so you want to be very involved.
However, being a trainer and manager is more then throwing a towel over your shoulder and making a few phone calls.
This game aint a maypole dance thats for sure.
During the period I was with them, Sean and Pat had a very good relationship. I got away from boxing in 1978 when I started law school. When Sean won the title, got stripped of it, and then lost to Gannigan, I was busy trying to get into my legal career, working 80-hour weeks. After I got a bit more established with my career, Sean and I became briefly reacquainted in the mid-1980s before I moved to St. Louis in 1986.

I, too, have heard that Sean and his Dad had problems pertaining to the whole debacle with the WBA, but Sean and I never discussed it. I tend to discount these rumors. I stayed in some contact with Sean's sister Colleen during this period, and she certainly never mentioned any problems to me.

During the period I worked with them, Sean worshipped the ground that his father walked on, and would do anything his father told him to do. Interestingly, Pat seemed to give Sean more rope than the other fighters. For example, Pat was kind of "Mel Epstein"-ish when it came to women, but Sean always had a pretty girlfriend and no complaints from Dad.
Tom, did you come to L.A. with Sean and Pat for the Lopez fight? They came into town a day or two before the fight. I met both of them and if you were with them I probably met you as well. I am still amazed that regardless of who came into town, Mel knew them. He introduced me. At that time, of course, no one knew who Sean was, he was just a kid from the midwest that was in town to fight Danny. I thought he looked awful young. When I found out he was just seventeen I couldn't believe it. I didn't give him a snowball's chance in hell to beat Danny but I admired his guts. It was pretty hard not too.

The first day they were in the gym, Mel comes up to me and says "The kids father needs a towel, they forgot their towels at the hotel". Mel knew that I always had two towels. One for wiping down during the workout and the other to dry off after the shower. I said okay. There is a picture of Sean that made the sports page of the Los Angeles Herald Examiner, with both Pat and Sean. Sean has a towel over his shoulder. That was my towel. I've seen the same photograph floating around the internet. When they were done working out, they left with my towel. I asked Mel "Hey, where's the guy that borrowed my towel? "They just walked out the door" he answered. I had to chase them down to get my towel back. Pat seemed a little embarrassed but It was an easy mistake considering what they had on their plate. Later when Sean started making a real name for himself I thought "Hey, that's the guy that tried to steal my towel". It was my mother's towel. When he beat Hilmer Kenty for the WBA Lightweight title I thought "Son of a gun, the kid did it".

I have the old newspaper clippings around somewhere, including the photo I mentioned, I'll look for them and post them.

Randy
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Randyman »

kikibalt wrote:Image
Frankie Baltazar & Bobby Chacon
"Golden State Boxers' Association" meeting today.
3-24-09
Two born and bred California warriors. :bow:

Randy
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Randyman »

I saw these two photos making their way around the internet. Both of them include my friend Bill O'Neill. I thought they were both interesting enough to merit a caption or an explanation of the photos. I emailed Bill and he was kind enough to provide a caption for both photos. Thank you Bill.

Image
Randy:
Top photo was taken in Jake Shugrue's Gym, corner 78th & Hoover, approx. 1970.
Left to right, standing: Freed Heesy, Jake Shugrue, Irish Frankie Crawford, and Meself; seated, Freddie "Mexicali Rose" Marino. (Perhaps his name was spelled Merino. Great guy. The nickname was hung on him by Honolulu promoter Sam Ichinose--pronounced Itchy-Nose--during Freddie's fighting days.)

Image
Bottom photo: Jose Sulaiman came to the World Boxing Hall of Fame banquet the year I was president of the organization (1984), to belatedly present WBC championship belts to Rodolfo Gonzalez and Mando Ramos. The belts had been won 10 years earlier, but got overlooked, and laid around in the WBC office in Mexico City for all that time. Sulaiman said he would bring them, providing we allowed him to make a "brief" speech. So he came--and BORED EVERYONE TO DEATH for almost 30 minutes, until I persuaded Jimmy Lennon Sr. to cut him off.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by raylawpc »

Randyman wrote:
raylawpc wrote:
Expug wrote:I remember you posting that story of Spud before Rog.
Its very sad . Very poignant.
Father and son teams I suppose can be very tricky.
Frank and his boys probably have had the best combination of Father and sons in boxing history.
The other ones Im familiar with seem to have gotten shaky at times.
Ray could probably give us some insight into the Pat and Sean O'Grady combination.
Ive heard it was at times a bit rocky.
Something about Sean fighting Andy Gannigan and a WAA title or something.
Its a tough situation if you have been a fighter and your boy wants to fight. You want whats best, so you want to be very involved.
However, being a trainer and manager is more then throwing a towel over your shoulder and making a few phone calls.
This game aint a maypole dance thats for sure.
During the period I was with them, Sean and Pat had a very good relationship. I got away from boxing in 1978 when I started law school. When Sean won the title, got stripped of it, and then lost to Gannigan, I was busy trying to get into my legal career, working 80-hour weeks. After I got a bit more established with my career, Sean and I became briefly reacquainted in the mid-1980s before I moved to St. Louis in 1986.

I, too, have heard that Sean and his Dad had problems pertaining to the whole debacle with the WBA, but Sean and I never discussed it. I tend to discount these rumors. I stayed in some contact with Sean's sister Colleen during this period, and she certainly never mentioned any problems to me.

During the period I worked with them, Sean worshipped the ground that his father walked on, and would do anything his father told him to do. Interestingly, Pat seemed to give Sean more rope than the other fighters. For example, Pat was kind of "Mel Epstein"-ish when it came to women, but Sean always had a pretty girlfriend and no complaints from Dad.
Tom, did you come to L.A. with Sean and Pat for the Lopez fight? They came into town a day or two before the fight. I met both of them and if you were with them I probably met you as well. I am still amazed that regardless of who came into town, Mel knew them. He introduced me. At that time, of course, no one knew who Sean was, he was just a kid from the midwest that was in town to fight Danny. I thought he looked awful young. When I found out he was just seventeen I couldn't believe it. I didn't give him a snowball's chance in hell to beat Danny but I admired his guts. It was pretty hard not too.

The first day they were in the gym, Mel comes up to me and says "The kids father needs a towel, they forgot their towels at the hotel". Mel knew that I always had two towels. One for wiping down during the workout and the other to dry off after the shower. I said okay. There is a picture of Sean that made the sports page of the Los Angeles Herald Examiner, with both Pat and Sean. Sean has a towel over his shoulder. That was my towel. I've seen the same photograph floating around the internet. When they were done working out, they left with my towel. I asked Mel "Hey, where's the guy that borrowed my towel? "They just walked out the door" he answered. I had to chase them down to get my towel back. Pat seemed a little embarrassed but It was an easy mistake considering what they had on their plate. Later when Sean started making a real name for himself I thought "Hey, that's the guy that tried to steal my towel". It was my mother's towel. When he beat Hilmer Kenty for the WBA Lightweight title I thought "Son of a gun, the kid did it".

I have the old newspaper clippings around somewhere, including the photo I mentioned, I'll look for them and post them.

Randy
Nope, I didn't make it to that one. It was my senior year in college and I couldn't take off school for it. Plus, I'd only been married for a couple of months and was still enjoying the life of a newlywed with my beautiful young bride.

When Pat signed Sean for the fight, the promoter sent him some video tapes of Danny Lopez, and we all went to KOCO-TV channel 5 in Oklahoma City to watch them. I had never seen Lopez fight, but I'd read about him in BI and Ring and knew he was one tough customer. I remember one of the fights we saw was Lopez KOing Ruben Oliviares.

Sean was really jazzed about fighting Lopez and was quite animated watching those tapes and pointing out all the weaknesses he saw in Lopez, and what he would do. I remember watching Lopez take apart Oliviares and thinking to myself, "This is a b - a - d idea. . ."

BTW, Pat managed fighters briefly in LA in the late 60s, his top fighter being Tony Longoria. Mel probably knew him from those days.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Dongee »

For anyone who is interested:

I have heard the 78th street gym mentioned several times and have thought of the origin of that place. Paul Matty, whose background was wrestling, drove me to his property at 78th and Hoiover to show me the ongoing construction on a small wooden building which was to house his "open to the public" gymnasium. At the time he had formed a sorta partnership with boxing manager Johnny Francis.

Jake Shugrue, in those days, trained and conditioned all of his fighters at his own gym somewhere near Wilmington.

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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by kikibalt »

Randyman wrote:I saw these two photos making their way around the internet. Both of them include my friend Bill O'Neill. I thought they were both interesting enough to merit a caption or an explanation of the photos. I emailed Bill and he was kind enough to provide a caption for both photos. Thank you Bill.

Image
Randy:
Top photo was taken in Jake Shugrue's Gym, corner 78th & Hoover, approx. 1970.
Left to right, standing: Freed Heesy, Jake Shugrue, Irish Frankie Crawford, and Meself; seated, Freddie "Mexicali Rose" Marino. (Perhaps his name was spelled Merino. Great guy. The nickname was hung on him by Honolulu promoter Sam Ichinose--pronounced Itchy-Nose--during Freddie's fighting days.)

Image
Bottom photo: Jose Sulaiman came to the World Boxing Hall of Fame banquet the year I was president of the organization (1984), to belatedly present WBC championship belts to Rodolfo Gonzalez and Mando Ramos. The belts had been won 10 years earlier, but got overlooked, and laid around in the WBC office in Mexico City for all that time. Sulaiman said he would bring them, providing we allowed him to make a "brief" speech. So he came--and BORED EVERYONE TO DEATH for almost 30 minutes, until I persuaded Jimmy Lennon Sr. to cut him off.
Randy, Freddie spelled his last name, "Marino" and not "Moreno".
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Rick Farris »

Dongee wrote:For anyone who is interested:

I have heard the 78th street gym mentioned several times and have thought of the origin of that place. Paul Matty, whose background was wrestling, drove me to his property at 78th and Hoiover to show me the ongoing construction on a small wooden building which was to house his "open to the public" gymnasium. At the time he had formed a sorta partnership with boxing manager Johnny Francis.

Jake Shugrue, in those days, trained and conditioned all of his fighters at his own gym somewhere near Wilmington.

hap navarro
Hap . . . Your post clears up a falsehood in my memory. I was told by some gym tout that the place had once been a laundry mat. Didn't look like one to me, but how would I know? I remember the first time I trained there in 1966. I was 14, and boxed with a 13-year-old named Andy Price. Two years later I would box him in an exhibition in El Monte. Jake had the gym at the time, and he lived in the house directly next door, on the south side of the gym. The house had an old wooden shed that was once used as a garage, but at the time served as a room for prelim fighter, Manny Lugo. A few years earlier, his Frankie Crawford also lived in that wooden shed home. It wasn't exactly the Ritz-Carlton. Thanks for the info on the Hoover St. Gym (which I always knew as the "Jake Shagrue Gym"). Last time I saw Jake in a gym was on the boardwalk in Long Beach, "The Seaside Gym" where he slept on a wooden cot at night.

By the way, Hap, would you remember the approx. year that Paul Matty introduced you to his new gym?

-Rick Farris
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by kikibalt »

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Don Fraser, Elsa & Larry Montalvo
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Dongee »

Rick:

That would have to be sometime in the early 1950s. The house you mentioned was also there at the time, and was owned by Paul Matty, as far as we knew.

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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

scartissue wrote:Guys, I don't know if you've seen it, but Raul Macias passed away yesterday. Anyone have any info on him or special memories???

Scartissue

Dan
Two quick ones on Macias. Raton went into the Mexican cinema for a while. He was sort of a heartthrob. My wife was a big fan of his.

I wrote about this way back in the thread. I was close to an old timer who was a friend of Macias. This gentleman was on the Mexican Olympic Team witth Macias in Helsinki in 1952. My friend swam the butterfly. He said the Mexican Olympic team was very badly prepared to compete. He criticized the government for not backing the athletes. My friend said the only medal winner was Raton. I believe he won a Silver.

My friend had suffered a couple of bad strokes. He had a woman caretaker from across the border who was very kind and patient with him. My friend had a daughter who was never around much. She used to be Amanda's Flamenco instructor. She was in Spain with her boyfriend(her guitarist)trying to break into the Flamenco community over there.

I used to visit my friend once a week. I was his only visitor. His mind was very sharp still. We'd talk about the arts,politics,and yes,boxing. He told me that when he was in Helsinki the life of the party was Raton Macias. He tried to keep everyone's spirits up despite the teams' poor showing. My friend would look back with tears in his eyes and exude the companionship he had made with Raton Macias.

My friend was rapidly going downhill. One day I went to visit him and they had said he died the previous night. The neighbors said they heard a window break and that my friend was shouting something. They said it sounded something like "Ramon,Ramon."

When I heard this I wept uncontrollably.
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