Greatest Undefeated Fighter Of All-Time?

[Goodnight, Irene]

With thanks to Alp, whose thread on great boxers with a multitude of losses on their ledger inspired this thread.

Who've we got, gents? Who was the greatest undefeated fighter of all-time? You can rank them using any of the three standard methods --- accomplishments, who-beats-who, or a hybrid of the aforementioned criterion. Some early (potential) candidates...

Sven Ottke (34-0-0)
Ricardo Lopez (51-0-1)
Rocky Marciano (49-0-0)
Jack McAuliffe (35-0-6)
Jimmy Barry (59-0-10)
Laszlo Papp (27-0-2)
Joe Calzaghe (46-0-0)
Floyd Mayweather (39-0-0)

I'm tipping peoples' choices should come down to assessments of amount of bouts fought, quality of competition faced, & perhaps era-context (for instance, it's probably fair to give preference to old-time fighters who took bouts on short notice, knowing little or nothing first-hand about their opponent, as opposed to modern, once-every-six-months fighters like Calzaghe & Mayweather). We'll see.

[Robinson]

Im going to go with the Rock.

He stayed on top and beat some impressive names in an
era not really revered as being ultra impressive as far as
big men go.

He trained hard, fought hard and left the sport with honour
and his senses in tact.

After that I would say Mayweather...but he is still young and
he will burn through that money quick. Plus...he may be using
the Cartmanland ploy to garner more interest for a return.

[Goodnight, Irene]

What a shame a great, great fighter like Gene Tunney must be precluded from this debate --- he had the better part of twice as many bouts as Marciano, & suffered just the one defeat --- & that, to the man I class as the greatest Middleweight ever. Quick Q, Robbo...

It's irrelevant to the topic, but if Tunney were hypothetically unbeaten, would you rank him over Marciano, or beneath, as great fighters go? Not necessarily how they'd do head-to-head (though that could be part of your analysis) but just overall?

[Adamj1987]

ricardo lopez because he was reguared as one of the P4P best for years which is a feat for soemone so small, ivan cauldran is teh onlt other i can think of and thats after he moved up a weight

[Goodnight, Irene]

ricardo lopez because he was reguared as one of the P4P best for years which is a feat for soemone so small, ivan cauldran is teh onlt other i can think of and thats after he moved up a weight

I remember around the turn-of-the-century, everyone's pound-for-pound lists were much as they are today --- two stand-out candidates (Jones & Lopez) who were well above the rest. I was more a fan of Jones, but couldn't ever find it within myself to remove a fighter like Lopez from the top spot.

If people in this thread neglect him, it will be on the strength of his competition, which has to rank among the weakest of the fighters I listed. You certainly can't fault his raw talent or technical prowess, each of which perhaps are better than any of the other men I mentioned.

[Controversial]

Im going to go with the Rock.

He stayed on top and beat some impressive names in an
era not really revered as being ultra impressive as far as
big men go.

He trained hard, fought hard and left the sport with honour
and his senses in tact.

After that I would say Mayweather...but he is still young and
he will burn through that money quick. Plus...he may be using
the Cartmanland ploy to garner more interest for a return.

Always a controversial choice. I love the Rock but he did fight in a fairly weak era, against mainly older fighters past their primes. In fact Marciano only fought at world level for 3 years which isn't a long time at all and didn't fight for the title until his 42 fight. Plus he only made 6 defences, of which 3 were rematches. But he was a great fighter, always fit, strong, dedicated and never stopped throwing punches. But each to their own, Marciano's record always seems to cause arguments in my experience !!!!

I would say possibly Mayweather out of that list. Champion at 5 weights and fought for title after 18 fights. Beat fighters in their prime and looked almost unbeatable doing it. Fantastic talent.

[raylawpc]

Marciano . . . didn't fight for the title until his 42 fight.

How does that diminish Marciano's record? Greats from the 40s and early 50s like Pep, Robinson, Saddler, et al., all had more fights than Marciano before securing a title shot.

[kikibalt]

Marciano . . . didn't fight for the title until his 42 fight.

How does that diminish Marciano's record? Greats from the 40s and early 50s like Pep, Robinson, Saddler, et al., all had more fights than Marciano before securing a title shot.

Back then fighters didn't fight for a title with 10-12 fights under their belt...

Controversial must be a newbie to boxing....

[BoxBuzz]

How do you choose between Ottke and Calzaghe? Call this one a dead heat. Emphasis on "dead".

[BoxBuzz]

Well he posed a style threat regarding decisions certainly, oh and if that didn't do the trick the judges seemed to have a little something to say that could always help. That is if the ref didn't intervene before they had their say.

[raylawpc]

Marciano . . . didn't fight for the title until his 42 fight.

How does that diminish Marciano's record? Greats from the 40s and early 50s like Pep, Robinson, Saddler, et al., all had more fights than Marciano before securing a title shot.

Back then fighters didn't fight for a title with 10-12 fights under their belt...

Controversial must be a newbie to boxing....

As I recall, Frank, didn't a few writers at that time comment on Marciano's inexperience, given he had only been fighting seriously since mid-1948?

[raylawpc]

I do think Laszlo Papp deserves some consideration here. Arguably the greatest amateur fighter who ever lived (three-time Olympic Champion & two-time European Champion), Papp was a citizen of Communist Hungary. Turning pro in 1957, he defeated some of the best Europe had to offer before winning the EBU middleweight title in 1962. Then, the Hungarian Communist government refused to grant him an exit visa to fight for the world title in 1965, and that ended his career. A great, great fighter now, sadly, forgotten by many.

[alexpaterson]

Mayweather for me he has never looked like losing he is so fast and skilled no one at the moment can beat him he is just amazing followed closely by the Rock he was brilliant just sheer determanation and guts

[Controversial]

Marciano . . . didn't fight for the title until his 42 fight.

How does that diminish Marciano's record? Greats from the 40s and early 50s like Pep, Robinson, Saddler, et al., all had more fights than Marciano before securing a title shot.

I didn't say it diminished his record? Pep had 241 fights, Robinson had 200 fights and Saddler had 162 fights. My point was Marciano had his fight title fight after 42 fights but only had 49 fights in total. Like I said he only had 6 title defences of which 3 were rematches, over a 3 year period.

Like I said before Marciano was a great fighter but was lucky to be in a weak era, he wouldn't have been undefeated if he was about in the 60's or 70's.

[Senya13]

I do think Laszlo Papp deserves some consideration here. Arguably the greatest amateur fighter who ever lived

Better than Mark Breland?

[bjermaine]

i think i have to go with either calzaghe or ottke.

marciano and lopez standout from everyone else on the list. mayweather will be coming back and if he stays undefeated he'll join them as the top undefeated guys imo.

lopez's problem is his level of comp but no one can deny that he was a great fighter.

[raylawpc]

I do think Laszlo Papp deserves some consideration here. Arguably the greatest amateur fighter who ever lived

Better than Mark Breland?

In my opinion, yes . . . His amateur record was researched some years back by Christer Franzen of Sweden, and Franzen's research showed an amazing 301-6-12 record. Notice I said "arguably." Reasonable minds can differ here.

[HomicideHenry]

What a shame a great, great fighter like Gene Tunney must be precluded from this debate --- he had the better part of twice as many bouts as Marciano, & suffered just the one defeat --- & that, to the man I class as the greatest Middleweight ever. Quick Q, Robbo...

It's irrelevant to the topic, but if Tunney were hypothetically unbeaten, would you rank him over Marciano, or beneath, as great fighters go? Not necessarily how they'd do head-to-head (though that could be part of your analysis) but just overall?

Why not mention Jim Jefferies as well? Outside of his comeback loss to Jack Johnson, he never came close to defeat in his prime knocking out Fitzsimmons, Jackson, Corbett, and others. IMO, had the rules never changed, Jefferies may very well have been the greatest of all time, and hypothetically could have out lasted most if not all HW's past and present.

But since he and Tunney (which I dont know why you mention him considering Greb was robbed more times against him than Liz Taylor's changed wedding rings), I'd go with Marciano, then Lopez, then Calzaghe, then Mayweather, then McAuliffe, then Barry, then Papp, then Ottke.

[Goodnight, Irene]

We're just going on official verdicts here, Henry.

I think, of the fighters I mentioned, I'd rate them...

1) Lopez
2) Papp
3) Mayweather
4) Marciano
5) Barry
6) McAuliffe
7) Calzaghe
8) Ottke

A lot of room for debate, there, even with myself.

[HomicideHenry]

Papp is low on my list only because he never got a world title, while the rest of them did. Ottke, is last on mine, because imo, he never was that special in my eyes, while Papp was full of possibilities, he was a sure fire bet and could have been MW champ.

[dempseyfire]

Lopez at #1, Marciano at #2, then Floyd . . .Papp never fought above Euro-level.

[observer1]

p4p, Mayweather

[elmersalsa]

Rocky Marciano....That's FINAL

[My2Sense]

Never saw Jimmy Barry actually fight, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was the best P4P out of the lot.

[raylawpc]

Never saw Jimmy Barry actually fight, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was the best P4P out of the lot.

You could very well be right. Old timers thought very highly of him.