James Toney vs Marvin Hagler at Middleweight

[BoxBuzz]

Ok I have too much time on my hands but based on some other threads I thought this might be worthy of comment. Two rugged fighters who can dish it and take it and both have great skills. It's going to be a war whoever wins. They will both be standing at the end IMHO. So just how does one outpoint the other? Will Toney be slippiing Marvin's punches? I don't think I want to be either one of them at the end of 12 or 15 rounds. By the way would the amount of rounds make a difference in the outcome?

Ringsider will side with Toney....any other opinions?
Marvin Hagler
division middleweight
nationality
United States
alias Marvelous
residence Brockton, Massachusetts, United States
birth place Newark, NJ, USA
stance southpaw
height 5′ 9½″ / 177cm
reach 75″ / 191cm
won 62 (KO 52) + lost 3 (KO 0) + drawn 2 = 67
rounds boxed 400 : KO% 77.61

James Toney
birth date 1968-08-24
age 40
manager/agent register
current division heavyweight
United States
alias Lights Out
residence Sherman Oaks, California, United States
birth place Grand Rapids, MI, USA
birth name James Nathaniel Toney
stance orthodox
height 5′ 10″ / 178cm
reach 72″ / 183cm
US ID 020230
won 71 (KO 43) + lost 6 (KO 0) + drawn 3 = 82
rounds boxed 618 : KO% 52.44

[Rocky Balboa]

Toney beats Hagler 7 days a week & twice on Sunday regardless of the weight class

WOW! That's a very bold prediciton imo!

[Ambling Alp]

Buzz, is this a trick question ?

[dempseyfire]

Toney beats Hagler 7 days a week & twice on Sunday regardless of the weight class

Haha coming from the above poster I'm not surprised by this pick.

[BoxBuzz]

Buzz, is this a trick question ?

The only thing tricky about this is anyone being overly sure of the outcome. IMHO. I'm sure Marvin would get the popular vote. But I don't think Toney is going anywhere, so Marvin is going to have to find a way to outpoint this guy. Same in reverse. cause they both have granite jaws. I'm thinking this would be painful.

[NazNaci1]

Hagler by a landslide - too fit and relentless.

He could box brilliantly from either stance, brawl and get rough when he had to, fitness levels were way way way above Toney's.

Hagler is a genuine GREAT fighter.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Hagler, but Toney'd be more competitive --- & successful throughout the fight --- than many might expect.

[gregor]

I would favor Hagler, especially if this is supposed to be 15 rounds. Hagler often fought down (or up) to the level of his opponent, so he did not look spectacular sometimes, but the point is that he (almost) always found a way to win.

Also, I assume we are discussing a fight at 160 as it is the only weight Hagler fought at, and JT resume here is not that spectacular.

[turn2stone]

easy pick. hagler. especially if you are lining up each as middleweight champion. toney struggled with too many as champ for me to give him a chance.( johnson, tiberi and mccallum.)

[Ambling Alp]

I suppose an upset is possible, but if they both fight their normal fight, Hagler wins this relatively easy. Hagler is better in virtually every aspect, though usually not by a lot. Toney also takes off about 3 rounds a fight. Hagler wins something like 9 rounds to 3. If Hagler fights like he did early in the Duran fight, or late in the first Antuofermo fight, Toney would have a chance. However, if Hagler fights like he normally did he wins this.
If Toney fought listlessly like he sometimes did this would be even more one sided.

[Counter-puncher]

toney didn't fight for 3mins of every round

bad habit to be in if you're fightign Hagler

[BoxBuzz]

Is there a fight in Toney's history that would serve as a bit of a guide? We couldn't use the RJJ fight as an indicator due to the wide style discrepancy right? Or could we?

[elmersalsa]

James Toney was one of my favorite fighters in the 90s, and still is, BUT, I cannot see him beat someone that was OUT OF THIS WORLD: Marvin Hagler. The fight would be very competitive, though. Hagler by late KO or UD.

[BoxBuzz]

I can see Marvin getting the decision...but how does he become the one to KO Toney? I can't imagine that outcome. Both of these guys will be standing at the end of this fight. And neither of them are going to be feeling very well. Though Toney will claim loudly (assuming his jaw is not broke) that it was just a walk in the park.

[Ezzard]

The Toney who beat Nunn was some fighter. That was as good a win as it gets so he could reach the heights some of the time.

Marvin could falter in fights and I'd imagine Toney to be the physically stronger of the two men.

Hagler was a more polished, smoother boxer with a better jab.

I'd imagine a competitive 15 round fight in which Hagler wins something like 9-6 in rounds.

[bjermaine]

hagler by decision imo.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

Is there a fight in Toney's history that would serve as a bit of a guide? We couldn't use the RJJ fight as an indicator due to the wide style discrepancy right? Or could we?

- Yeah, try Tiberi, or Griffin, or Thradzi, or ancient McCallum.

Why is this even a topic? Marvin had a few controversial results that he reversed in dramatic fashion. He never loses in his championship mode until Leonard, and that one of the most controversial matches in history that Leonard ducked the rematch.

What's next, Dick Tiger vs Otke?

[The Great John L]

If an old, slow SRL easily outboxed Hagler, why the hell would you think Toney can't? Marvin would try & bully Toney into the ropes & rip him to the body, while James would lean back & counter all night. Possibly even stop Marvin on cuts.

Who has Hagler faced that makes you think he can hang with Toney? Lets not forget, Toney won the heavyweight championship of the world, while Hagler was content spending his career fighting mandatories in one weight class

Hell yeah!! In fact, I'd say that Kelly Pavlik could probably kick a prime Hagler's ass as well.

[BoxBuzz]

Still not sure what TheGreatJohnL is saying. But I now suspect he's calling this a win for the Marvelous one.

[dempseyfire]

Hagler's prime was from 1977-1982. Unfortunately his most remembered fights are when he was already past his best (Leonard,Mugabi,Duran)

Hagler at his best was a fast, smart, hard-hitting, incredibly conditioned southpaw machine. Toney, who arguably lost to Reggie Johnson and a past-it McCallum, would be bulldozed in the late rounds vs Hagler.

Of Hagler's opponents, I see Toney having a hellish time vs Hamsho,Hearns (a great fight at 160),Roldan and yes the 1987 Ray Leonard, who was anything but slow.

[The Great John L]

Toney, who arguably lost to Reggie Johnson and a past-it McCallum, ...

Don't forget Tiberi.

[BoxBuzz]

So would this be Toney's KO? Or would he be there to absorb the entire buffet table of skills for the duration?

[allworld80]

toney didn't fight for 3mins of every round

bad habit to be in if you're fightign Hagler

Good point. This is a Hagler win by a mile, IMO.

[NazNaci1]

If an old, slow SRL easily outboxed Hagler, why the hell would you think Toney can't? Marvin would try & bully Toney into the ropes & rip him to the body, while James would lean back & counter all night. Possibly even stop Marvin on cuts.

Who has Hagler faced that makes you think he can hang with Toney? Lets not forget, Toney won the heavyweight championship of the world, while Hagler was content spending his career fighting mandatories in one weight class

Erm, Slow. old SRL?

Pleas dont say that as you are so horribly off the mark. Either of those guys who have splattered Toney.

And on who has Hagler faced? EVERYBODY - Hearns, Duran, SRL, Bennie Briscoe, Boogaloo Watts, Eugene Hart, Mugabi.....want me to continue?

Hearns demolishes Toney, SRL possibly sparks Toney or just whips him by a mile, Duran just batters him and Hagler simply OWNS him.

Toney LOST to Reggie Johnson. Toney LOST to Tiberi. Toney LOST to McCallum. Toney LOST RJJ.

The fact that a few ppl believe Toney would win is healthy but so completely wrong.

PS Also Toney won the fight, tested positive and the bout declared a no contest, so no, he never won the Title - oh yeah against John Ruiz, that mean fighting machine of a heavyweight, cant box or punch. Toney isnt a heavyweight, he is just fat, he has eaten himself into the division.

[dempseyfire]

Hell yeah!! In fact, I'd say that Kelly Pavlik could probably kick a prime Hagler's ass as well.

Now you're just being foolish

If Sam Peter couldn't put a dent in Toney, how do you expect Hagler to?

Yes, Toney has looked awful in some of his fights, he's inconsistent if anything, but the way he handled Jirov he'd repeat vs Hagler

You clearly don't understand the rudimentaries of boxing.

Jirov and Hagler besides both being southpaws are complete opposites.

Sam Peter couldn't put a dent in Toney b/c the guy sucks . . he has piss-poor accuracy, and an awful work-rate and conditioning. I guess Reggie Johnson had Sam Peter power b/c he put Toney on his ass too, and unlike Peter's balance shot it was a legit KD.

Hager had more skills and stamina than Peter has ever dreamed of.