What punishment would you give Margarito and his trainer?

[stujones]

Agree Carbo, and Mosley is being championed and no punishment seems to be going his way. The man should be NOT considered a 3 weight world champion, cause he has confessed winning the Light Middleweight title on EPO... and DLH should have one "defeat" taken off his record.

[stujones]

I'm not in ANY way condoning the actions of Margarito against Mosley, simply saying there is no evidence against him for the Cotto fight. As I said in another thread, its a callous act, but one which is regulated against - as Mosley's trainer spotted... remember he didn't hit Mosley with loaded gloves, just was about to (which is terrible, please don't read that as me thinking "cause he got caught early means he should escape"), Mosley hit DLH with EPO enhanced punches (which can also increase your stamina and increase your ability to take punches - which loaded gloves cannot).

I've never bought this Margarito is a "beast" or avoided... Margarito never seemed to fussed about fighting Mayweather, Judah even Cory Spinks. Never made a scene about it, think he knew all 3 had the potential to beat him.

Again, supicions about Mosley was roiding were long before the DLH fight and for a series of fights after. However, so far only fight he has confessed to is the DLH fight... if he confesses to all his light middleweight fights, then yes those should be scrapped to. I cannot believe that a poster as knowledgable as you Terry does not support this stance, Mosley is a cheat and he said so in court, not to a journalist. I don't care if it was against DLH or Adrian Stone - whatever fight he confessed to - it should be a no contest. Its cheating.

And I never said to gift DLH a win over Mosley - but declare it a no contest! DLH was robbed anyway, but thats a different debate.... Mosley cheated, fight should be a no contest and DLH (if he wanted to) could sue Mosley for loss of earnings, cause he lost the belt. Even John Ruiz didn't lose his belt after losing to Toney. Toney got caught, he suffered the consequences, Botha got caught he suffered the consequence - neither can lay claim to the Heavyweight title, why should Mosley?

[jamesmcdonnell]

Blimey I was wrong - could someone put this down in the annals of boxrec history.

[Poncey]

If he cheated for a fight with a guy who was uspposed to be washed up then there is a very strong chance that he cheated versus Cotto. Cotto has been hit before, and marked up, but the extent of his marking up versus Margo was incredible considering he barely got hit early in the fight, in retrospect it reminds me of Davey Moore's face after Duran had been lacing him etc.

Cotto has been hit and hurt on many occassions, and I think that if you look at the punch stats, Margarito landed plenty in that second half, although you are right to say that he didn't land much early.

That said, if he was loading, wouldn't we have seen the effects after the first punch or so?

There's a theory from a consultant used by the California State Atheltic Commission that the elements take between 2 and 4 rounds to oxidise and harden, therefore it could explain the battering Miguel took from round 6.

However, it's a theory and as I have no experience with it I couldn't say myself.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I'm not in ANY way condoning the actions of Margarito against Mosley, simply saying there is no evidence against him for the Cotto fight. As I said in another thread, its a callous act, but one which is regulated against - as Mosley's trainer spotted... remember he didn't hit Mosley with loaded gloves, just was about to (which is terrible, please don't read that as me thinking "cause he got caught early means he should escape"), Mosley hit DLH with EPO enhanced punches (which can also increase your stamina and increase your ability to take punches - which loaded gloves cannot).

I've never bought this Margarito is a "beast" or avoided... Margarito never seemed to fussed about fighting Mayweather, Judah even Cory Spinks. Never made a scene about it, think he knew all 3 had the potential to beat him.

Again, supicions about Mosley was roiding were long before the DLH fight and for a series of fights after. However, so far only fight he has confessed to is the DLH fight... if he confesses to all his light middleweight fights, then yes those should be scrapped to. I cannot believe that a poster as knowledgable as you Terry does not support this stance, Mosley is a cheat and he said so in court, not to a journalist. I don't care if it was against DLH or Adrian Stone - whatever fight he confessed to - it should be a no contest. Its cheating.

And I never said to gift DLH a win over Mosley - but declare it a no contest! DLH was robbed anyway, but thats a different debate.... Mosley cheated, fight should be a no contest and DLH (if he wanted to) could sue Mosley for loss of earnings, cause he lost the belt. Even John Ruiz didn't lose his belt after losing to Toney. Toney got caught, he suffered the consequences, Botha got caught he suffered the consequence - neither can lay claim to the Heavyweight title, why should Mosley?

Funny thing is - he looked absolutely shite against Oscar - slow, bulky, ponderous and one dimensional. I for one thought he lost clearly - he threw about 40 punches the whole fight.

[stujones]

I'm not in ANY way condoning the actions of Margarito against Mosley, simply saying there is no evidence against him for the Cotto fight. As I said in another thread, its a callous act, but one which is regulated against - as Mosley's trainer spotted... remember he didn't hit Mosley with loaded gloves, just was about to (which is terrible, please don't read that as me thinking "cause he got caught early means he should escape"), Mosley hit DLH with EPO enhanced punches (which can also increase your stamina and increase your ability to take punches - which loaded gloves cannot).

I've never bought this Margarito is a "beast" or avoided... Margarito never seemed to fussed about fighting Mayweather, Judah even Cory Spinks. Never made a scene about it, think he knew all 3 had the potential to beat him.

Again, supicions about Mosley was roiding were long before the DLH fight and for a series of fights after. However, so far only fight he has confessed to is the DLH fight... if he confesses to all his light middleweight fights, then yes those should be scrapped to. I cannot believe that a poster as knowledgable as you Terry does not support this stance, Mosley is a cheat and he said so in court, not to a journalist. I don't care if it was against DLH or Adrian Stone - whatever fight he confessed to - it should be a no contest. Its cheating.

And I never said to gift DLH a win over Mosley - but declare it a no contest! DLH was robbed anyway, but thats a different debate.... Mosley cheated, fight should be a no contest and DLH (if he wanted to) could sue Mosley for loss of earnings, cause he lost the belt. Even John Ruiz didn't lose his belt after losing to Toney. Toney got caught, he suffered the consequences, Botha got caught he suffered the consequence - neither can lay claim to the Heavyweight title, why should Mosley?

EPO enhanced punches, isn't that an album by Gregg Lake? It should be.

Shane beat Oscar not by KO, or by punch inflicted stoppage, he beat him by out-boxing him, twice. Oscar could not handicap the guy in either fight, could not sue enough people to flip fight II and cannot grin his way to a NC.

As for the fights, Oscar-Shane II is one of my favourite contests, it was close but clear, and it was as much as Oscar deserved.

I am not John Stuart Mill, my heart is not bleeding for Oscar. Margo's was the more serious offence, he got caught in the act, he is getting spanked, justly.

So because Oscar didn't get stopped, and Cotto did (remembering there is EVIDENCE Mosley cheated against Oscar, f all Evidence against Margarito vs Cotto) that makes the difference. So is it just every fight which Margarito won by stoppage you are questioning?

Shane might have "won" (if you think so) by boxing but he hurt DLH to the body in the 9th, which had a major impact on the scoring (the last rounds). Might not have done the same damaged if they were not assisted by a performance enhancing aid. Just because DLH didn't go down, and Cotto did - I think means nothing. Does Daniel Santos have a cast iron chin, or did he not cheat in that fight?

Plus with EPO there are alot of other factors it can improve, like the ability to absorb punches and stamina. Would Mosley been able to comeback in the last few rounds had he not been able to artifcially enhanced ability. Maybe, maybe not.

1st result means nothing.. thats a clean Mosley win for me - not admitted to any cheating.

[stujones]

If he cheated for a fight with a guy who was uspposed to be washed up then there is a very strong chance that he cheated versus Cotto. Cotto has been hit before, and marked up, but the extent of his marking up versus Margo was incredible considering he barely got hit early in the fight, in retrospect it reminds me of Davey Moore's face after Duran had been lacing him etc.

Cotto has been hit and hurt on many occassions, and I think that if you look at the punch stats, Margarito landed plenty in that second half, although you are right to say that he didn't land much early.

That said, if he was loading, wouldn't we have seen the effects after the first punch or so?

There's a theory from a consultant used by the California State Atheltic Commission that the elements take between 2 and 4 rounds to oxidise and harden, therefore it could explain the battering Miguel took from round 6.

However, it's a theory and as I have no experience with it I couldn't say myself.

Surely that would depend on the warm up?

[JDC]

Geld em!!!