The ATG Heavyweight Computerized Tournament: Revisited

[HomicideHenry]

Okies gentleman, we're going to do the ATG HW computer tournament again. There was simply too much controversy and bullshit associated with the first two tournaments done in the past, so we're going to make this one fool-proof, with the only inaccuracies being opinions between the posters and the judgements made by the computer.

I propose this time, we will have ALL heavyweight champions on the roster, and all of them will be placed into their absoloute primes. The matches, as in real life, will be matched as evenly as possible (example, surely we wouldnt put a prime Leon Spinks in with a prime Muhammad Ali now would we? Spinks would certainly be placed against someone like Marvin Hart or Tommy Burns or one of the lesser alphabet champions). Each week there will be two match-ups, with time in between for the posters to debate on who would win and why. We'll have odds done up before the computer does the matches, and in the end, we will debate whether the computer was at least accurate enough for the posters in determining a winner.

Here Are Your Lineal Heavyweight Champions:

John L. Sullivan
James J. Corbett
Bob Fitzsimmons
James J. Jeffries
Marvin Hart
Tommy Burns
Jack Johnson
Jess Willard
Jack Dempsey
Gene Tunney
Max Schmeling
Jack Sharkey
Primo Carnera
Max Baer
James J. Braddock
Joe Louis
Ezzard Charles
Jersey Joe Walcott
Rocky Marciano
Floyd Patterson
Ingemar Johansson
Sonny Liston
Muhammad Ali
Joe Frazier
George Foreman
Leon Spinks
Larry Holmes
Michael Spinks
Mike Tyson
James Douglas
Evander Holyfield
Michael Moorer
Riddick Bowe
Lennox Lewis
Hasim Rahman

Here Are Your Alphabet Heavyweight Champions:

Ernie Terrell
Jimmy Ellis
Ken Norton
John Tate
Mike Weaver
Michael Dokes
Gerrie Coetzee
Tim Witherspoon
Greg Page
Pinklon Thomas
Tony Tubbs
Trevor Berbick
Bonecrusher Smith
Tony Tucker
Frank Bruno
Bruce Seldon
Oliver McCall
John Ruiz
Chris Byrd
Roy Jones
Oleg Maskaev
Samuel Peter
Nicolai Valuev
Corrie Sanders
Ruslan Chagaev
Vitali Klitschko
Wladimir Klitschko

Here Are Your Heavyweight Title Claimers:

Jem Mace
Peter Maher
Tommy Morrison
Joe Hipp
Michael Bennt
Ray Mercer
Fransisco Damini
Herbie Hide
Tom Sharkey
Jimmy Bivins
Luther McCarty
Denver Ed Martin
Lee Savold
George Godfrey
Jake Kilrain
Georges Carpentier
Ed Gunboat Smith
Arthur Pelkey
Sam McVea
Joe Jeannette
Sam Langford
Big Bill Tate
Larry Gains
Cecil Seal Harris
Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
Lee Q Murray
Shannon Briggs
Lamon Brewster
Sergei Liahoyavich
Sultan Imbragimov
Harry Bobo


Any more title claimers, please add them to the thread, so that I may add them to the official list.



**********************************************************


I figure the matches can start, as soon as we can find a backer to do the computer simulations on a weekly or every other week basis. I already have a pretty good idea on who should be matched off with who. At the end of the tournament, the "winner" of this near 70 man tournament (actually its 67), will be awarded a digital plaque proclaiming him as the undisputed, undefeated, ATG Heavyweight champion of the world.

[raylawpc]

Okies gentleman, we're going to do the ATG HW computer tournament again. There was simply too much controversy and bullshit associated with the first two tournaments done in the past, so we're going to make this one fool-proof, with the only inaccuracies being opinions between the posters and the judgements made by the computer.

I propose this time, we will have ALL heavyweight champions on the roster, and all of them will be placed into their absoloute primes. The matches, as in real life, will be matched as evenly as possible (example, surely we wouldnt put a prime Leon Spinks in with a prime Muhammad Ali now would we? Spinks would certainly be placed against someone like Marvin Hart or Tommy Burns or one of the lesser alphabet champions). Each week there will be two match-ups, with time in between for the posters to debate on who would win and why. We'll have odds done up before the computer does the matches, and in the end, we will debate whether the computer was at least accurate enough for the posters in determining a winner.

Here Are Your Lineal Heavyweight Champions:

John L. Sullivan
James J. Corbett
Bob Fitzsimmons
James J. Jeffries
Marvin Hart
Tommy Burns
Jack Johnson
Jess Willard
Jack Dempsey
Gene Tunney
Max Schmeling
Jack Sharkey
Primo Carnera
Max Baer
James J. Braddock
Joe Louis
Ezzard Charles
Jersey Joe Walcott
Rocky Marciano
Floyd Patterson
Ingemar Johansson
Sonny Liston
Muhammad Ali
Joe Frazier
George Foreman
Leon Spinks
Larry Holmes
Michael Spinks
Mike Tyson
James Douglas
Evander Holyfield
Michael Moorer
Riddick Bowe
Lennox Lewis
Hasim Rahman

Here Are Your Alphabet Heavyweight Champions:

Ernie Terrell
Jimmy Ellis
Ken Norton
John Tate
Mike Weaver
Michael Dokes
Gerrie Coetzee
Tim Witherspoon
Greg Page
Pinklon Thomas
Tony Tubbs
Trevor Berbick
Bonecrusher Smith
Tony Tucker
Frank Bruno
Bruce Seldon
Oliver McCall
John Ruiz
Chris Byrd
Roy Jones
Oleg Maskaev
Nicolai Valuev
Corrie Sanders
Ruslan Chagaev
Vitali Klitschko
Wladimir Klitschko

Here Are Your Heavyweight Title Claimers:

Peter Maher
Tommy Morrison
Joe Hipp
Michael Bennt
Ray Mercer
Fransisco Damini
Herbie Hide


**********************************************************


I figure the matches can start, as soon as we can find a backer to do the computer simulations on a weekly or every other week basis. I already have a pretty good idea on who should be matched off with who. At the end of the tournament, the "winner" of this near 70 man tournament (actually its 67), will be awarded a digital plaque proclaiming him as the undisputed, undefeated, ATG Heavyweight champion of the world.

What are the rules for this tournament? What size gloves, how many rounds, scoring system, etc?

Also, Tom Sharkey claimed the heavyweight title after his December 2, 1896 DQ win over Bob Fitzsimmons.

Also, Jimmy Bivins held the duration heavyweight title during WWII.

[HomicideHenry]

What are the rules for this tournament? What size gloves, how many rounds, scoring system, etc?

Also, Tom Sharkey claimed the heavyweight title after his December 2, 1896 DQ win over Bob Fitzsimmons.

Also, Jimmy Bivins held the duration heavyweight title during WWII.

*Adds Sharkey and Bivins to the tournament

Personally, I would like all the matches to be 12 rounds with 10 ounce gloves, with the standard 10 point must system per round (10-9, 10-8, etc); save the very last bout, which will be 15 rounds, like championship bouts should be!

[Collins2000]

This from the guy who is far too busy to make the video that will get him into the TPS which he claims is his ultimate dream...

I didn't see any explanation of how the matches are to be made, Rufus. ie who picks who will fight who?

[BoxBuzz]

I would be willing to place the matches into the mighty Univac computer for processing. Don't blame me for outcomes....I will run each fight once and only once. I'll post links from this thread to the BoxSim forum for those interested to view the outcomes. I don't have a lot of time these days, but it sounds like pretty light fare time wise. I won't keep you waiting unless I'm in the throws of a face off with the grim reaper. I will have nothing to do with determing who fights who, but once given marching orders I will run the fights post them and notify you.

[BoxBuzz]

and for timing....I'm good with moving it along at whatever pace we happen to be able to work with.....as fast or as slow as the deciding body wishes. (Faster is my preference). Maybe 2X weekly? Weds and Sundays maybe?

[Goodnight, Irene]

I'm all for a predictions tournament where we collectively decide the winners based on a majority of votes, but these sims persistently throw up the most backward, arbitrary results, they appear utterly meaningless to me.

Additionally, does it always have to be a Heavyweight tournament? Every time, without exception? Is there some regulation prohibiting an all-time Bantam, Jr. Welter, or Middleweight tournament? Seems so.

[Robinson]

What about the coloured HW champions ?

[raylawpc]

What about the coloured HW champions ?

And the White Hope champions, too?

[BoxBuzz]

Voting would be fine..... perhaps better.

[Robinson]

Its going to be a mega super tourny.

You may as well throw in cruiserweights as well
seeing as most those other 'HW' champs are
cruisers.

[Collins2000]

What about those blokes the BBBoC recognised as world heavyweight champs? Lee Savold for instance.

And where's Johnny Nelson? 2 time WBF heavyweight champion wasn't he?

And you said this was gonna be a legit tourney, Rufus????

It's already worse than the others and it aint even started!!!

[Robinson]

And the NY and Australian 'world HW champ....

we could even throw in the Commonwealth HW champions
seeing as the Crown lands were the only free and civilised lands for
some time.

[Collins2000]

Rufus, you have to include the bare-knuck boys too. Bartley mastered Ali didnt he according to that newspaper headline. Gorman should be seeded #1 just on that alone even though it was a pie-eating contest.

In fact all the maulers on that site I posted a couple of weeks ago ought to be this tourney.

Except the guy who was balancing those 9 dustbins on his head. We have to draw the line somewhere.

[Robinson]

The funny think about that site, was that
most the pics were of the same guy, just
in different costumes.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

I already have a pretty good idea on who should be matched off with who.

- First off, I echo that any of the colored/white champs should be included, but only the obvious ones, not the nutcase fringe.

2nd off, the only legit way after ring size, gloves, and rules are decided is to have random matchups to start with each winner fighting the winner below him in the queue until the finals are reached.

I don't mind if someone uses a computer for the results, all the better to pick apart said computer. In a styles and prime natural attributes type of matchups, I want the opportunity to start with random matchups and pick the winners through the finals. On my cards some great names to be upset, some unknowns to have their moments in the sun with some greats chewing through fighter after fighter.

With a random start I cannot predict my finals, but with another roll of the dice and another random start, I know my results would be different, reflecting the uncertainties of real life.

[HomicideHenry]

Thank you BoxBuzz, I appreciate this tremendously! Whatever days of the week that be the most comfortable for you, will be fine by us here in "Boxers of The Past"! Wednesdays and Sundays are fine.

Rufus, you have to include the bare-knuck boys too. Bartley mastered Ali didnt he according to that newspaper headline. Gorman should be seeded #1 just on that alone even though it was a pie-eating contest.

In fact all the maulers on that site I posted a couple of weeks ago ought to be this tourney.

Except the guy who was balancing those 9 dustbins on his head. We have to draw the line somewhere.

Gorman and Fury and the other bare knucklers simply wouldnt apply to this, as this tournament is strictly under the Marquis of Queensbury, not the London Prize Ring rules. You cannot equate two various types of rules to being alike, else John L. Sullivan in his hey day under bare knuckle rules with the hundreds of exhibition tours and bouts would most certainly be the top HW of all times. However, I may add Jem Mace to the tournament, considering, like Sullivan, he did make a successful transition from bare knuckle to gloves.

****************************************************************

Savold, and the 'white hope' and 'colored' champions apply to this as well, my original list was a "for instance". Luther McCarty and Denver Ed Martin and various others will be added to the list ASAP.

[HomicideHenry]

Also, as far as who will be fighting who, I thought about two scenarios:

-We can vote for who we'd like to see fight in the first week (10 options per poll)

-Or a panel of 'experts' can randomly pick names

I'd nominate BoxBuzz for that position, but then again, doing the sims alone would be quite a job in and of its self. I dont want to over load the man too much. I figure, maybe if we matched them as evenly as possible, we could set the matches up like that, with the posters breaking up the fighters into groups. For example, group A may have Ali, Foreman, Frazier, Liston, Louis and Marciano in it, while group B would have Holmes, Lewis, Tyson, Holyfield and Bowe, etc.

[Collins2000]

Also, as far as who will be fighting who, I thought about two scenarios:

-We can vote for who we'd like to see fight in the first week (10 options per poll)

-Or a panel of 'experts' can randomly pick names

I'd nominate BoxBuzz for that position, but then again, doing the sims alone would be quite a job in and of its self. I dont want to over load the man too much. I figure, maybe if we matched them as evenly as possible, we could set the matches up like that, with the posters breaking up the fighters into groups. For example, group A may have Ali, Foreman, Frazier, Liston, Louis and Marciano in it, while group B would have Holmes, Lewis, Tyson, Holyfield and Bowe, etc.

For the panel of experts I nominate:

Robert 'Bobby' Boxbuzz - noted junior trainee boxing historian and octagenerian
granberry - naturally
Bazza - He'd be gutted if not nominated
Jimbo - Noted author and grandson of the 2nd best middleweight Scotland ever produced
DaveV - For his open mind and sense of fair play - remember his scorecard for Ali - Norton (2)?
squatdog - A true Boxrec legend

[Robinson]

Henry...

I can run the sims for you :)

I can organise my alien mates to abduct the fighters in their
primes and have them fight it out.

No drama.

[Collins2000]

Are we absolutley sure there is no way we can include that guy who balanced the 9 dustbins on his head?

It seems a shame to leave him out.

[raylawpc]

Hank, Philadelphia Jack O'Brien claimed the title after defeating Bob Fitzsimmons. His rationale: When Jeffries retired, the title reverted to Fitz, who was the titleholder Jeff defeated for the crown. Therefore, by defeating Fitz, O'Brien became the titleholder.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Don't stop, "contributing" now, Collins. Your posts are as side-splitting as they are topic-relevant.

[Robinson]

And that is a fair claim to the title as well Ray.

I think he should be included also.

GI...but dustbins guy was pretty impressive. You need
to appreciate his talent and claims as a world naked
fist champion (i think thats what got HH interested in
him ;) )

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

Please add Lee Q Murray to the list. Murray was recognized duration heavyweight champion during world war II by Ohio and Maryland Commisions after his excellent knockout victory over tough 6'4 208lb Black contender Harry Bobo