Tyson training photographs

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 21 Jul 2004, 07:27

I would give Tyson a real chance against Vitali. Klitschko shat himself when Sanders was charging him and Corrie wasnt even in shape.

You cant compare Lewis v Tyson to Vitali v Tyson, Lewis is far more athletic and mobile than Vitali will ever be. Lewis was woefully out of shape in his fight with Vitali if he had been in the same shape as the Tyson fight it would have been over in a couple of rounds.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 21 Jul 2004, 07:32

Kilburn wrote:Danny just has to move move move in the early stages. It's the only way he'll stay in the fight. He has good footwork when he chooses to use it, I damn well hope he does.

I disagree, Danny's footwork isn't good enough to evade Tyson in the early rounds. Danny lacks Rhythmn in his footwork, and Tyson will corner him and batter him. The first time Tyson charges in, Danny needs to land a hard jab, preferably a double or triple jab, and then slide off. He must make Mike think twice.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 21 Jul 2004, 07:41

jamesmcdonnell wrote: I disagree, Danny's footwork isn't good enough to evade Tyson in the early rounds. Danny lacks Rhythmn in his footwork, and Tyson will corner him and batter him. The first time Tyson charges in, Danny needs to land a hard jab, preferably a double or triple jab, and then slide off. He must make Mike think twice.

IMO his footwork is definitely good enough to keep him away from this version of Tyson.

Unless Tyson fights with the same mentality that he brought with him to the press conference I can't see a hard Williams jab having any kind of effect other than to encourage Tyson to throw an even harder punch back.

Danny can only win this fight by boxing, not punching.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 21 Jul 2004, 07:45

Although Tyson is far gone, it's worth remembering that nobody has ever won by outboxing Tyson. Everyone beat him by shooing the shit out of him, Douglas is the only one who really kept him at bay early in the fight, and even he had to get off the canvas to win it. Holyfield and Lewis deterred Mike early and broke him down.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 21 Jul 2004, 07:50

Even this version of Tyson gave Lewis a few scares in the first round - will Williams cope as well as Lewis?

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 21 Jul 2004, 07:51

Yes James it's a good point, but Douglas, Lewis and Holyfield KO'd Tyson because they could. Had they not been able to they would have still won on points. And worryingly for Tyson, the last time he was defeated he barely laid a glove on his opponent during the whole fight.

Times have changed. The goal posts have narrowed significantly.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 21 Jul 2004, 07:51

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Although Tyson is far gone, it's worth remembering that nobody has ever won by outboxing Tyson. Everyone beat him by shooing the shit out of him, Douglas is the only one who really kept him at bay early in the fight, and even he had to get off the canvas to win it. Holyfield and Lewis deterred Mike early and broke him down.

Botha was doing a pretty good job of outboxing a similarly-rusty Tyson in 1999 before he walked on to one.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 21 Jul 2004, 07:53

Yes Botha was pissing it. Even Orlin Norris was having an easy time in the supposed danger zone of the first round until he got whacked after the bell.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 21 Jul 2004, 07:56

Don't come back too vicious James, I do fully take your point. The 3 guys to actually beat Tyson went after him with hard punches and beat the crap out of him.

But just because Tyson hasn't been purely outboxed it doesn't make it impossible, especially at this stage of his career.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 21 Jul 2004, 07:58

That just affirms my point. As long as Tyson isn't being hurt or discouraged, there is always the clear and present danger of him finding his range and landing the big shot. Norris and Botha were both doing well, but eventually Tyson found them out, why? Neither man had the power to discourage him to the extent where he went into passive mode.

The reason Tyson did so little against Lewis, is that Lewis hurt him early on. When Tyson felt that ramrod jab shuddering down to his boots, the seed of doubt was planted, and the negativity began. If Tyson could have found a way out without obviously quitting, he would have done, he was having a hellish time against a man who was battering the life out of him. Danny doesn't hit with the venom of Lewis, but his jab is good enough to take the sting out of Tyson early.

I am of course assuming that Tyson has anything left at all, which is contradicting myself, because I was calling Tyson shot as far back as 2002, it's that bloody Tyson myth tugging at me again.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 21 Jul 2004, 07:59

You know, there is a small chance - very small - that Tyson could look embarrasingly bad in this one. He may have no coordination whatsoever.

J · Post by J » 21 Jul 2004, 08:03

bennie wrote:You know, there is a small chance - very small - that Tyson could look embarrasingly bad in this one. He may have no coordination whatsoever.

we can but hope

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 21 Jul 2004, 08:23

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Danny doesn't hit with the venom of Lewis, but his jab is good enough to take the sting out of Tyson early.

If he couldn't take the sting out of Keith Long I don't see how it would work with Tyson.

You could also use the Long fight as evidence of Williams having useless footwork, but IMO Danny deliberately let Long try and bully him because he knew he couldn't be hurt, in a very similar way to Carl Froch when he fought Valery Odin. Only difference being the Cobra had the required venom (ho ho) to open up and get Odin out of there.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 21 Jul 2004, 08:26

Thing is, Long DID hurt him at one point. On the evidence of that fight, it's hard to see Danny winning, but Danny has fought better than that before.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 22 Jul 2004, 10:52

jamesmcdonnell wrote:That just affirms my point. As long as Tyson isn't being hurt or discouraged, there is always the clear and present danger of him finding his range and landing the big shot. Norris and Botha were both doing well, but eventually Tyson found them out, why? Neither man had the power to discourage him to the extent where he went into passive mode.

The reason Tyson did so little against Lewis, is that Lewis hurt him early on. When Tyson felt that ramrod jab shuddering down to his boots, the seed of doubt was planted, and the negativity began. If Tyson could have found a way out without obviously quitting, he would have done, he was having a hellish time against a man who was battering the life out of him. Danny doesn't hit with the venom of Lewis, but his jab is good enough to take the sting out of Tyson early.

I am of course assuming that Tyson has anything left at all, which is contradicting myself, because I was calling Tyson shot as far back as 2002, it's that bloody Tyson myth tugging at me again.

Good post, James.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 22 Jul 2004, 10:57

Why thankyou benjamin.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 22 Jul 2004, 10:59

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Why thankyou benjamin.

Can I blatantly plagiarize please?

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 22 Jul 2004, 11:00

It was a lot more succinct than the Maxboxing preview. I've only just woken myself up again

Joking aside. Tyson could indeed look S2S in this one. He's an abused, dissinterested shell these days no matter what Roach states to the contrary.

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 22 Jul 2004, 11:01

So whats the crowd for the meet up. And are we talking about September 10th?

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 22 Jul 2004, 11:07

bennie wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Why thankyou benjamin.
Can I blatantly plagiarize please?

Be my guest.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 22 Jul 2004, 11:07

DavidPayne wrote:It was a lot more succinct than the Maxboxing preview. I've only just woken myself up again :-?

Joking aside. Tyson could indeed look S2S in this one. He's an abused, dissinterested shell these days no matter what Roach states to the contrary.

Cheeky bast.

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 22 Jul 2004, 11:12

Jamesy, I thought all the sentiments were spot on, it just went on too long for my fleeting level of concentration.

I aint criticising honest. Me and you are way past that now.

Hopefully

Looking forward to meeting up soon.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 22 Jul 2004, 11:25

I know I know Dave, it's the same old story, I'm too long winded for you. Still, I should expect that from someone who skims over the more important detail like a gadfly

Don't worry I took it all in good humour over the years.

Yeah, will be good to meet up finally. Where are you based now Dave? Are you coming down for the weekend, or are you based in London now?

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 22 Jul 2004, 11:28

I'm based in Suffolk, bout half an hour east of Cambridge.

I'll be down for the night. I like getting lost going home. Leave York Hall at say 11 - get out of London about 12.20 via god knows where.

Mmmm. Great.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 22 Jul 2004, 11:37

I'm sure someone can put you up mate. If I've sorted a new flat by then I'll do the deed.