How would Frazier do in this era?

[Robinson]

It is safe to say that if Foreman was 6' and 195 then he
would not fight the way he did. He had goos size, good
power and had a primal ability to do damage.

I have never watched the young Foreman and thought
I would ever attempt to emulate his technique or style
in training.

Foreman's ability to cut of the ring is one of those things
told to us over and over again. I think their is a fine line
between cutting of the ring...and chasing-following an
opponent.

Yes Foreman nearly KO'd Young....
Conn nearly KO'd Louis, Dempsey nearly KO'd Tunney,
Frazier nearly KO'd Ali....and so on....they didnt actually
ever KO their opponent.

Foreman in the Frazier fight shut Frazier down. He side
stepped well, and blasted him with power shots every
chance he had, which limited Frazier to himself loading
up. Frazier came to bang with Foreman, and was himself
banged out.

Foreman stalked Norton down well. Norton has never looked
good backing up though. I have never liked the way Foreman
would reach and parry the opponents shots, leaving his head
open. This is why I feel the cross defence he used in later
fights suited him a whole lot better.

I think Foreman's win over Norton is most likely his most impressive
showing. He contains Norton, cuts him down, makes him back
up and takes any power away from Norton. Norton's stance
and style makes it hard for a man to blast a shot of while backing
up. In the Norton fight I cna not say that Foreman really used the
jab that well, as he was able to land plenty of power shots straight
of the bat. The thing I always noticed about Foreman is when he
threw his jab, he would bring it back to around his shoulder height
and leave his head forwards, allowing alot of guys the right hand
to land.

[Collins2000]

DF, was Norton moving around the ring against Foreman so that his movement had to be cut off? Are we talking about the "fleet footed" Norton who always dragged his right leg and got bombed whenever he backed up? That is like saying that Holmes effectively cut off the ring on Tex Cobb. Do you even know what cutting off the ring means.

Galt, old buddy.

Tell me again what an aspiring boxer can learn from watching Valuev in action.

You believe him to be a far more formidable fighter than Foreman.

What are the things he does so much better than Foreman?

[Robinson]

If you were 6'8+ and 300+ lbs then one can
certainly learn things from Valuev.

[BoxBuzz]

I'll tell you what Valuev brings to the ring. PRESENCE. As a matter of fact he has displayed this "presence" at every one of his events. Win or Lose.

[Robinson]

What alot of academics do not appreciate is just how hard
it is to deal with a massive human being that has skills and
some athletic ability.

[Collins2000]

What alot of academics do not appreciate is just how hard
it is to deal with a massive human being that has skills and
some athletic ability.

An ancient Holyfield didn't seem to have much trouble hitting the giant Valuev. Pity he was too old to keep it up. In his prime he'd have won every round wouldn't he or, possibly, stopped the giant?

Larry Donald (hardly an all time great) also was able to land plenty of shots on Valuev's noggin.

Yet, according to Galt, this fellow Valuev is a phenom who is gonna destroy Frazier, Ali, Norton, Foreman.

Am I in the Twilight Zone?

[Collins2000]

I'll tell you what Valuev brings to the ring. PRESENCE. As a matter of fact he has displayed this "presence" at every one of his events. Win or Lose.

So has Chuckie Z, Rob.

Actually, now I think about it Zelenoff does prove the new breed of fighters are better than the old guys does he not?

[Robinson]

Thats right...valuev is shit and would lose to everyone.
Sorry I keep forgetting that.

[Collins2000]

Thats right...valuev is shit and would lose to everyone.
Sorry I keep forgetting that.

Not everyone, Kym.

Just those heavyweights that are better than him. Including those that 'only' weigh 215 pounds.

In Galt's world, Larry Holmes would have no chance with the superb fighting machine that is Nikolai Valuev.

You agree with that, Kym?

[John Galt]

Collins, in addition to knowing nothing about boxing, you are a liar. Show where I have made any of the claims you attribute to me or where I have written that Valueev would beat anyone. You can't show it, you are a liar.

Are you out of your comfort zone of Hauser-Sugar, thought? You are a pathetic little man.

[Trainer Monkey]

Collins, in addition to knowing nothing about boxing, you are a liar. Show where I have made any of the claims you attribute to me or where I have written that Valueev would beat anyone. You can't show it, you are a liar.

Are you out of your comfort zone of Hauser-Sugar, thought? You are a pathetic little man.

There's a difference between hyperbole,and lying
Pick your words more carefully

[Collins2000]

Collins, in addition to knowing nothing about boxing, you are a liar. Show where I have made any of the claims you attribute to me or where I have written that Valueev would beat anyone. You can't show it, you are a liar.

Are you out of your comfort zone of Hauser-Sugar, thought? You are a pathetic little man.

Galt, old buddy.

You are starting to come to your senses at last.

You are correct. Valuev would never beat fighters of the class of Ali, Holmes and Foreman at their peak. He just aint good enough, no matter how big he is.

I am glad you are starting to understand the basics of boxing.

[John Galt]

Colins, again You are a Liar. I have never written that Valueev could or could not beat anyone. Your understanding of boxing begins and ends with Hauser, Sugar, Gordon, Merchant, Mailer, etc.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

Valuev is a phenom who is gonna destroy Frazier, Ali, Norton, Foreman.

Am I in the Twilight Zone?

- Would rather not imagine what fetid zone you got your noggin stuck in.

Frazier is a short guy. Be pretty easy for Niko to defend against him. Hitting Joe is another matter. It'd be an awkward fight and terrible matchup.

Ali, Foreman, and Norton have some height and can reach him. Thing is in spite of most of his career being promoted as a freak show against marginal fighters, when his comp starts including top 10 to 25 ranked fighters, very few can get to him cleanly. He's never been budged, but he's also been matched away from big sluggers too.

Niko has proven to be a work in process and continues to improve his boxing skills. You can make fun of him all you want, but the guy is a professional, highly intelligent, and he won't back off from a fight.

I suggest you go watch the Monte Barrett fight on utube if you want to seem him not wearing the cuffs and allowed free rampage against a ranked young contender. It's obvious he's more of a contender than most of what Holmes defended against and better than at least half the contenders in history. Better than Neon Leon even, and Leon whooped the Greatest. Yet somehow in the smarmy modern superior culture of useless intellect, Niko becomes an object to sneer at, the big ugly stupid brute not of "our" kind.

[dempseyfire]

Yes, no-one should sneer at the the guy who needed gift decisions vs an old Donald, old Ruiz, and an ancient Holyfield (but apparently he was wearing the 'cuffs' in these ROBBERIES . . which makes zero sense . . what happened to that lucrative Holyfield rematch that was going to happen b/c Valuev 'threw' that fight?? You are a joke)

BTW, that "young" ranked contender Barrett was 35 when he fought Valuev.

[observer1]

Valuev is a phenom who is gonna destroy Frazier, Ali, Norton, Foreman.

Am I in the Twilight Zone?

- Would rather not imagine what fetid zone you got your noggin stuck in.

Frazier is a short guy. Be pretty easy for Niko to defend against him. Hitting Joe is another matter. It'd be an awkward fight and terrible matchup.

Ali, Foreman, and Norton have some height and can reach him. Thing is in spite of most of his career being promoted as a freak show against marginal fighters, when his comp starts including top 10 to 25 ranked fighters, very few can get to him cleanly. He's never been budged, but he's also been matched away from big sluggers too.

Niko has proven to be a work in process and continues to improve his boxing skills. You can make fun of him all you want, but the guy is a professional, highly intelligent, and he won't back off from a fight.

I suggest you go watch the Monte Barrett fight on utube if you want to seem him not wearing the cuffs and allowed free rampage against a ranked young contender. It's obvious he's more of a contender than most of what Holmes defended against and better than at least half the contenders in history. Better than Neon Leon even, and Leon whooped the Greatest. Yet somehow in the smarmy modern superior culture of useless intellect, Niko becomes an object to sneer at, the big ugly stupid brute not of "our" kind.

Oh my word, are you for real??

Valuev stole a Decision against Old man pensioner: Holyfield. He'd Be KO'd by Frazier imo

[Collins2000]

Valuev is a phenom who is gonna destroy Frazier, Ali, Norton, Foreman.

Am I in the Twilight Zone?

- Would rather not imagine what fetid zone you got your noggin stuck in.

Frazier is a short guy. Be pretty easy for Niko to defend against him. Hitting Joe is another matter. It'd be an awkward fight and terrible matchup.

Ali, Foreman, and Norton have some height and can reach him. Thing is in spite of most of his career being promoted as a freak show against marginal fighters, when his comp starts including top 10 to 25 ranked fighters, very few can get to him cleanly. He's never been budged, but he's also been matched away from big sluggers too.

Niko has proven to be a work in process and continues to improve his boxing skills. You can make fun of him all you want, but the guy is a professional, highly intelligent, and he won't back off from a fight.

I suggest you go watch the Monte Barrett fight on utube if you want to seem him not wearing the cuffs and allowed free rampage against a ranked young contender. It's obvious he's more of a contender than most of what Holmes defended against and better than at least half the contenders in history. Better than Neon Leon even, and Leon whooped the Greatest. Yet somehow in the smarmy modern superior culture of useless intellect, Niko becomes an object to sneer at, the big ugly stupid brute not of "our" kind.

Oh my word, are you for real??

Valuev stole a Decision against Old man pensioner: Holyfield. He'd Be KO'd by Frazier imo

BRR likes a little drink before he posts.

[Collins2000]

Colins, again You are a Liar. I have never written that Valueev could or could not beat anyone. Your understanding of boxing begins and ends with Hauser, Sugar, Gordon, Merchant, Mailer, etc.

Galt, old buddy.

I am glad you are now able to say you have no idea whether Valuev could beat anyone.

It's good that you are able to come on here and admit you have no idea what you are talking about.

Do you find it cathartic?

[Robinson]

Thats right...valuev is shit and would lose to everyone.
Sorry I keep forgetting that.

Not everyone, Kym.

Just those heavyweights that are better than him. Including those that 'only' weigh 215 pounds.

In Galt's world, Larry Holmes would have no chance with the superb fighting machine that is Nikolai Valuev.

You agree with that, Kym?

I refuse to believe that anyone could think that Holmes at his
best would be beaten. ;)

[Robinson]

Valuev is a phenom who is gonna destroy Frazier, Ali, Norton, Foreman.

Am I in the Twilight Zone?

- Would rather not imagine what fetid zone you got your noggin stuck in.

Frazier is a short guy. Be pretty easy for Niko to defend against him. Hitting Joe is another matter. It'd be an awkward fight and terrible matchup.

Ali, Foreman, and Norton have some height and can reach him. Thing is in spite of most of his career being promoted as a freak show against marginal fighters, when his comp starts including top 10 to 25 ranked fighters, very few can get to him cleanly. He's never been budged, but he's also been matched away from big sluggers too.

Niko has proven to be a work in process and continues to improve his boxing skills. You can make fun of him all you want, but the guy is a professional, highly intelligent, and he won't back off from a fight.

I suggest you go watch the Monte Barrett fight on utube if you want to seem him not wearing the cuffs and allowed free rampage against a ranked young contender. It's obvious he's more of a contender than most of what Holmes defended against and better than at least half the contenders in history. Better than Neon Leon even, and Leon whooped the Greatest. Yet somehow in the smarmy modern superior culture of useless intellect, Niko becomes an object to sneer at, the big ugly stupid brute not of "our" kind.

This is how I see Valuev. As you put it a work in progress. A guy who is
developing which is very much aganst the grain of what big men like him
are suppose to be like.

I tend to always root against Valuev, simply because I love the idea of the
little guy slaying the great beast from the east. Thus far none have really
done it supremely convincingly. Holyfield, Chagaev, Ruiz and Donald aside
no one has dominated or troubled him to a great deal.

Im interested to see where Valuev goes, if he becomes the spectacle that
many of his detractors hope him to be or if he dominates the upper tier of
big men, should he learn from the lessons of his losses...Holyfield, Chagaev..

[Robinson]

I have to watch more of Valuev as I have only really
seen YT clips and the Holy fight. But I can not imagine
Frazier KOing him. Sure its possible. BUT...

Id pay alot of money to watch it though. I could gurantee
that Frazier would land a lot of low blows...not intentionally
but just because thats where his fists would go when his
instincts to hurt that body went.

[dempseyfire]

Valuev is a phenom who is gonna destroy Frazier, Ali, Norton, Foreman.

Am I in the Twilight Zone?

- Would rather not imagine what fetid zone you got your noggin stuck in.

Frazier is a short guy. Be pretty easy for Niko to defend against him. Hitting Joe is another matter. It'd be an awkward fight and terrible matchup.

Ali, Foreman, and Norton have some height and can reach him. Thing is in spite of most of his career being promoted as a freak show against marginal fighters, when his comp starts including top 10 to 25 ranked fighters, very few can get to him cleanly. He's never been budged, but he's also been matched away from big sluggers too.

Niko has proven to be a work in process and continues to improve his boxing skills. You can make fun of him all you want, but the guy is a professional, highly intelligent, and he won't back off from a fight.

I suggest you go watch the Monte Barrett fight on utube if you want to seem him not wearing the cuffs and allowed free rampage against a ranked young contender. It's obvious he's more of a contender than most of what Holmes defended against and better than at least half the contenders in history. Better than Neon Leon even, and Leon whooped the Greatest. Yet somehow in the smarmy modern superior culture of useless intellect, Niko becomes an object to sneer at, the big ugly stupid brute not of "our" kind.

This is how I see Valuev. As you put it a work in progress. A guy who is
developing which is very much aganst the grain of what big men like him
are suppose to be like.

I tend to always root against Valuev, simply because I love the idea of the
little guy slaying the great beast from the east. Thus far none have really
done it supremely convincingly. Holyfield, Chagaev, Ruiz and Donald aside
no one has dominated or troubled him to a great deal.

Im interested to see where Valuev goes, if he becomes the spectacle that
many of his detractors hope him to be or if he dominates the upper tier of
big men, should he learn from the lessons of his losses...Holyfield, Chagaev..

He's already 35 years old, and hasn't been looking any better the last two years to me. Additionally, guys that big develop joint and knee issues as they age. Unless Chagaev has greatly declined post illness/surgery, he should beat Valuev again and big Nicolay will descend into the footnote he's always been destined to be.

KO'd? Who knows? He's certainly proven to be world-class in the durability department, if not in boxing skill.

[Collins2000]

Valuev is a phenom who is gonna destroy Frazier, Ali, Norton, Foreman.

Am I in the Twilight Zone?

- Would rather not imagine what fetid zone you got your noggin stuck in.

Frazier is a short guy. Be pretty easy for Niko to defend against him. Hitting Joe is another matter. It'd be an awkward fight and terrible matchup.

Ali, Foreman, and Norton have some height and can reach him. Thing is in spite of most of his career being promoted as a freak show against marginal fighters, when his comp starts including top 10 to 25 ranked fighters, very few can get to him cleanly. He's never been budged, but he's also been matched away from big sluggers too.

Niko has proven to be a work in process and continues to improve his boxing skills. You can make fun of him all you want, but the guy is a professional, highly intelligent, and he won't back off from a fight.

I suggest you go watch the Monte Barrett fight on utube if you want to seem him not wearing the cuffs and allowed free rampage against a ranked young contender. It's obvious he's more of a contender than most of what Holmes defended against and better than at least half the contenders in history. Better than Neon Leon even, and Leon whooped the Greatest. Yet somehow in the smarmy modern superior culture of useless intellect, Niko becomes an object to sneer at, the big ugly stupid brute not of "our" kind.

This is how I see Valuev. As you put it a work in progress. A guy who is
developing which is very much aganst the grain of what big men like him
are suppose to be like.

I tend to always root against Valuev, simply because I love the idea of the
little guy slaying the great beast from the east. Thus far none have really
done it supremely convincingly. Holyfield, Chagaev, Ruiz and Donald aside
no one has dominated or troubled him to a great deal.

Im interested to see where Valuev goes, if he becomes the spectacle that
many of his detractors hope him to be or if he dominates the upper tier of
big men, should he learn from the lessons of his losses...Holyfield, Chagaev..

According to BRR and Galt, Valuev was "wearing the cuffs" in those bouts. If he'd been allowed to really show his stuff he'd have ripped them limb from limb.

[Robinson]

True, at 35 he is moving along. But with HGH and the
natural what ever in him that made him such a giant
of a man, he may have another 5 years where he is
still capable enough to train hard and pop away.

BRR suggested he had cuffs on. I dont know what that
means though...

[Collins2000]

True, at 35 he is moving along. But with HGH and the
natural what ever in him that made him such a giant
of a man, he may have another 5 years where he is
still capable enough to train hard and pop away.

BRR suggested he had cuffs on. I dont know what that
means though...

It means he was instructed not to perform to his best.

Can't imagine why that would be offered up as an excuse in this instance.

But we all know BRR and Galt will believe anything.