How would Frazier do in this era?

[hhaehre]

I have to watch more of Valuev as I have only really
seen YT clips and the Holy fight. But I can not imagine
Frazier KOing him. Sure its possible. BUT...

I have seen quite a few of his fights and since I don't subscribe to the conspiracy theory of him wearing the cuffs whenever he looks like crap I firmly believe that he is seriously on the slide. He looked pretty good against a slick mover like Donald, throwing plenty of leather and finishing strong to get the well deserved decision. In his last few fights he has not looked good, the Holyfield fight is the worst hw fight I have ever seen. He looked more shot than Holy and that takes some doing.

Would Frazier ko Valuev ? I don't think so, it is very hard for a man of Fraziers size to land hard head shots on the giant. I don't think Frazier would have any problems beating Valuev but it would be a points win I think. Chagaev got inside on Valuev without taking much on the way in and if he could do it surly Frazier could get the job done as well. Ruiz got inside on Valuev too but he ate stiff jabs and solid right hands on the way in and got busted up pretty good.

[Robinson]

I have to watch more of Valuev as I have only really
seen YT clips and the Holy fight. But I can not imagine
Frazier KOing him. Sure its possible. BUT...

I have seen quite a few of his fights and since I don't subscribe to the conspiracy theory of him wearing the cuffs whenever he looks like crap I firmly believe that he is seriously on the slide. He looked pretty good against a slick mover like Donald, throwing plenty of leather and finishing strong to get the well deserved decision. In his last few fights he has not looked good, the Holyfield fight is the worst hw fight I have ever seen. He looked more shot than Holy and that takes some doing.

Would Frazier ko Valuev ? I don't think so, it is very hard for a man of Fraziers size to land hard head shots on the giant. I don't think Frazier would have any problems beating Valuev but it would be a points win I think. Chagaev got inside on Valuev without taking much on the way in and if he could do it surly Frazier could get the job done as well. Ruiz got inside on Valuev too but he ate stiff jabs and solid right hands on the way in and got busted up pretty good.

Thanks mate. I have a few of his fights to watch now.
I just rewatched the Holy fight. Not much happening there.
Good to see Holy fight, but it was a cautious fight from both
guys. Having rewatched it..the decision could have gone either
way. I think most people were suprised Holy was able to
land and move as often as he did.

[hhaehre]

Having rewatched it..the decision could have gone either
way. I think most people were suprised Holy was able to
land and move as often as he did.

Yeah, it's hard to score a fight with so few punches thrown and landed. Personally I feel a draw would have been good as nether fighter deserved the win.
As for Holyfield, he fought exactly the way I figured he would. Bounce around but not getting his punches off, the trademark of a shot fighter. I was more surprised by Valuev, why did he just wait and wait and wait and..? Hell, maybe he was wearing the cuffs but why did he get the nod then ? I'm not sure Valuev has much left. He is no spring chicken at 35 and he has been fighting quality opposition the last 5 years or so. He has never really been hurt but he has absorbed good clean shots along the way.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

BTW, that "young" ranked contender Barrett was 35 when he fought Valuev.

- Barrett was a low mileage 35 coming off a well regarded series where he loses a disputed MD against undefeated Mesi, KOs undefeated fringe contender Beck, beats up and outclasses highly regarded undefeated Guinn, and then waltzes the distance against a top ranked Rahman in a difficult fight to watch and judge.

Barrett turned pro late with some notable successes. In that period, only a TKO loss to Wlad stands out where he was able to be handled. The loss to giant Whitaker was a split and it was considered that Barrett had put himself square in the middle of credible title contenders with his recent run up to the Valuev fight.

Last year at age 37, he mounted another comeback with a dramatic KO of fringe contender Tye Fields, obliterating the giant Field's own title challenge. Arum had sunk some considerable effort in upgrading Fields' skills and comp. That upset earned Barrett a shot against David Haye on 8 days notice where he flies to England to knock Haye down in an uncredited KD before succumbing to highly acclaimed Hayemaker on the eve of own title challenge to Wlad.

I don't recall anyone on this forum drumming up Valuev as part of the great pantheon of heavies, but as noted, he's a damn sight better and more formidable than at least 50% of contenders, probably better than 90%, could beat a few HOFers and makes a fight with anyone in history. If the guy was a joke, he would've been found out by now. He got to 6-1 in title matches, a feat not even your highly tooted Mr. E. H. Field ever achieved. Valuev only lacks the opportunity to fluff his record further with a drugged out mentally deranged rusty Tyson to improve his brand, so he made do with young Mr. Field to whom he served tea and crumpets, wiped his chin and straightened his bib with class and aplomb......... 8)

[John Galt]

Broughton and Robinson understand the problems presented by a guy like Valuev. Nobody has an easy fight with Valuev. He has good fundamentals and he is durable. Luckily for everyone else, he lacks explosiveness. Valuev is beatable, but anyone who does beat him will probably have to go the distance. It is a tough fight.

[dempseyfire]

BTW, that "young" ranked contender Barrett was 35 when he fought Valuev.

- Barrett was a low mileage 35 coming off a well regarded series where he loses a disputed MD against undefeated Mesi, KOs undefeated fringe contender Beck, beats up and outclasses highly regarded undefeated Guinn, and then waltzes the distance against a top ranked Rahman in a difficult fight to watch and judge.

Barrett turned pro late with some notable successes. In that period, only a TKO loss to Wlad stands out where he was able to be handled. The loss to giant Whitaker was a split and it was considered that Barrett had put himself square in the middle of credible title contenders with his recent run up to the Valuev fight.

Last year at age 37, he mounted another comeback with a dramatic KO of fringe contender Tye Fields, obliterating the giant Field's own title challenge. Arum had sunk some considerable effort in upgrading Fields' skills and comp. That upset earned Barrett a shot against David Haye on 8 days notice where he flies to England to knock Haye down in an uncredited KD before succumbing to highly acclaimed Hayemaker on the eve of own title challenge to Wlad.

I don't recall anyone on this forum drumming up Valuev as part of the great pantheon of heavies, but as noted, he's a damn sight better and more formidable than at least 50% of contenders, probably better than 90%, could beat a few HOFers and makes a fight with anyone in history. If the guy was a joke, he would've been found out by now. He got to 6-1 in title matches, a feat not even your highly tooted Mr. E. H. Field ever achieved. Valuev only lacks the opportunity to fluff his record further with a drugged out mentally deranged rusty Tyson to improve his brand, so he made do with young Mr. Field to whom he served tea and crumpets, wiped his chin and straightened his bib with class and aplomb......... 8)

I enjoy reading your mythical history? Low-mileage 35? You surely didn't follow Barrett's career like I have, Monte practically blocked punches with his head his whole career, took lots of punishment vs Whitaker,Klitschko,Davis,Wiggins,Mesi,Beck etc. Barrett made an entry into the top 10 after beating Guinn and Beck but the embarassing Rahman performance, along with the subsequent careers of Guinn and Beck, proved Barrett to simply be a solid gatekeeper to the top 10.

6-1 in 'title' matches? You mean that paper belt called the WBA? Give me a break. Valuev has never been more than a paper champion, anyone who needs the judges help vs Ruiz and a 46 year old Evander is not beating any Hall of Famers and certainly is not better than 50% of title challengers Found out by now? He HAS been found out, several times! What a laugh.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

You surely didn't follow Barrett's career like I have, Monte practically blocked punches with his head his whole career

- Well, now, that brings him up to par with Mr. E. H. Field. Nice comparison.

[Collins2000]

Broughton and Robinson understand the problems presented by a guy like Valuev. Nobody has an easy fight with Valuev. He has good fundamentals and he is durable. Luckily for everyone else, he lacks explosiveness. Valuev is beatable, but anyone who does beat him will probably have to go the distance. It is a tough fight.

Galt, old buddy.

It seems you are agreeing with BRR's claim that all of Valuev's biggest fights were rigged.

Rather a convoluted way to explain why he looked like shite against an ancient Holyfield who, according to you and BRR, was never much good anyway.

Spin it for me a bit more, old buddy.

[John Galt]

Collins, I know it does no good to argue or try to reason with an imbecile or a drunk so this will probably go right past you. I think Holyfield is a great fighter. It seems to me that you are the one asserting that Valuev's fights were rigged. I have never made that claim, so apparently you are the one who is trying to make that case.

Why do you think his fights are rigged? Do you think he made a good effort vs. Holy and Ruiz?

[Collins2000]

Collins, I know it does no good to argue or try to reason with an imbecile or a drunk so this will probably go right past you. I think Holyfield is a great fighter. It seems to me that you are the one asserting that Valuev's fights were rigged. I have never made that claim, so apparently you are the one who is trying to make that case.

Why do you think his fights are rigged? Do you think he made a good effort vs. Holy and Ruiz?

Galt, old buddy.

Read above.

Right aftrer BRR stated that Valuev only looked bad because he was forced "to fight with cuffs on" you popped up agreeing with him and claiming BRR knows all about Valuev.

Now you say you don't agree with BRR????

[John Galt]

Collins, why do you think Valuev had cuffs on? How far do you think this conspiracy goes? Do you see a lot of conspiracies in boxing?

[Collins2000]

Collins, why do you think Valuev had cuffs on? How far do you think this conspiracy goes? Do you see a lot of conspiracies in boxing?

Galt, old buddy, if we are going to get into conspiracies why don't you remind us how you scored Ali - Norton (2).

Then explain why you felt the need to have a 2nd username to post support for your 10-1-1 scorecard?

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

It seems you are agreeing with BRR's claim that all of Valuev's biggest fights were rigged.

Rather a convoluted way to explain why he looked like shite against an ancient Holyfield who, according to you and BRR, was never much good anyway.

- To paraphrase Ye Olde Gipper, "Now there you go again Colly old chap."

Every sporting contest is rigged to a degree with hometown advantage, coaching advantage, larger operating budget field of play tweaks and so on and so forth.

Everyone not named Colly Dearest knows boxing history rich in stories of fabled "robberies" and fixed fights, so no need to go into details.

If you can't see the obvious implications of fighting a corpse banned from fighting in most US jurisdictions possessed of a punch rate just above zero by Niko dropping his own punch rate by 80% and almost never leaving ring center, well, no shame in being slow on the uptake.

The onliest time I recall when Niko did leave ring center, in two steps he had collapsed Mr. Field into the corner where he disappeared behind a flashy (for Niko) shoeshine flurry that nobody could see save big Niko's arms and shoulders moving. Then he backed off before Mr. Field went into cardiac arrest.

You should try it some time Colly, two steps forward with a 2 sec spiffyshine and two steps back. Easy as pie, just understand that 2 of Niko's = 4 of your's in all things that matter.

[Collins2000]

Stripping away all the boring repetitive shite in BRR's post, what he is claiming is that Valuev was under instructions not to hurt Holyfield in their match and this is the reason it was a close fight

Apart from my old buddy Galt, does anyone else believe this or care to comment?

[dempseyfire]

Collins, don't you know it always makes financial sense to look awful vs a 46 year old, get the decision anyway, and thereby tarnish your marketability and prestige for future fights??? You must not understand boxing!!

[John Galt]

Collins, you call BRR's posts boring, yet you are on the computer 24 hours a day commenting on them and trying to push your conspiracies. I guess being drunk behind a computer monitor it looks easy to fight anyone? Get away from the computer, go to a gym, get off the bottle. You might find that things aren't so bad.

[Robinson]

Can I call some one old buddy ?

Broughton, Old buddy....
how ya doin?

[Collins2000]

Collins, you call BRR's posts boring, yet you are on the computer 24 hours a day commenting on them and trying to push your conspiracies. I guess being drunk behind a computer monitor it looks easy to fight anyone? Get away from the computer, go to a gym, get off the bottle. You might find that things aren't so bad.

Galt, old buddy.

10-1-1 wasn't it?

You got laughed off the board and then came back with a new name.

Good for you, DaveV.

You got laughed off the board but couldn't stay away. So you came back with a different usename.

And you call me a liar?

[Collins2000]

Can I call some one old buddy ?

Broughton, Old buddy....
how ya doin?

I used to call granberry "old buddy"............... until he started saying hurtful things to Bobby Boxbuzz.

[John Galt]

Collins, You are clueless about boxing but you do make me laugh. You are a typical message board poster. You read the junk written by Hauser, Sugar, Mailer, etc, then regurgitate it to other readers of the same trash. When someone posts something that you didn't see in your Hauser Manual, you become shrill, try to be insulting, and usually just come across as ignorant. I know I shouldn't laugh at you and goad you into more postings but I can't help it, you are just too funny.

You don't have the knowledge to argue a point so you panic when someone has a view that you didn't read in your Hauser manual. That is when you are at your funniest.

Give us some more of your conspiracies. Your conspiracies and boxing knowledge always make me laugh. The more you post, the funnier you are, and the more I get to laugh. Thanks for being clueless.

[Robinson]

Collins....old buddy....

how do you see Frazier fairing these days?

[John Galt]

Kym, don't be cruel. That is a boxing question. Collins knows nothing about boxing. Give him the names of two boxers and ask him which has more body hair and he could probably write a thesis.

[Collins2000]

Collins, You are clueless about boxing but you do make me laugh. You are a typical message board poster. You read the junk written by Hauser, Sugar, Mailer, etc, then regurgitate it to other readers of the same trash. When someone posts something that you didn't see in your Hauser Manual, you become shrill, try to be insulting, and usually just come across as ignorant. I know I shouldn't laugh at you and goad you into more postings but I can't help it, you are just too funny.

You don't have the knowledge to argue a point so you panic when someone has a view that you didn't read in your Hauser manual. That is when you are at your funniest.

Give us some more of your conspiracies. Your conspiracies and boxing knowledge always make me laugh. The more you post, the funnier you are, and the more I get to laugh. Thanks for being clueless.

DaveV (I notice you don't deny that it is you, old buddy), I didn't get laughed off the board and then come back with a different name.

Are you still in contact with granberry? He was the only bloke on here who ever agreed with you and he was a complete nutter.

[Collins2000]

Collins....old buddy....

how do you see Frazier fairing these days?

He'd probably be able to beat Ali now. Galt, granberry and BRR would pay good money to watch that. Sans trousers, most likely.

[Robinson]

Granberry and I agreed on a few things too......thank
you very much Collins...