A "Real" Boxing Fan ??

[Spud]

Forum,

On that Hatton thread there were some arguements for and against - especially when the words "real boxing fan" were mentioned - lets see if we can envoke a decent debate or at least get some good answers - on this thread - why not answer it one or 2 ways or I suppose as many ways as you want:

I will start things off - I am completely and utterly obsessed by boxing - been lucky enough to be involved behind the scenes at some massive events and some not so massive events - It all started from the days of Ali then I became a lot more interested in the Benn/Eubank/Collins/Watson and then Lewis era - it then snowballed when I was a minor part of the Julius Francis Team for the Mike Tyson fight in 2000 and then went nuts from there.

I love and also hate the sport - but what troubles me is this "real" boxing fan bit - I havn't "paid" to get into many events over the last 10 years - I think the only two out of the hundred plus shows I have been to that I paid to get into was the Harrison/Brodie show at the MEN and Hatton v Rowland at the Manchester Velodrome but I do not think that makes me any lesser fan than those who have paid out thousands - of course for those who have paid out hundreds and possibly thousands it proves beyond question your loyalty to the sport - however there may be some who do not have a "pot to p*ss in" and cannot afford to go to any shows but that does not mean they are not a boxing fan.

I suppose another way of possibly saying you are a fan or not is "knowledge" of the sport - there are some who I question the validity of their claims that they are a fan when they say "I saw "Naseem Bruno on tv the other night but think that Frank Hamed is a better fighter" - you know where I am going with that one - they could name any names and would not recognise a face even if it smacked them in the chops - but that might mean they are simply thick as pig sh*t - but a good boxing fan nonetheless.

Rant over - any other thoughts?

[Matt W]

I could never be arsed to justify my status as a fan. I couldn't care less whether anybody else thinks I'm a fan or not. I've heard so many tiresome debates amongst football fans about this, for me boxing can do without it.

[metropol]

I think a real boxing fans is someone who takes an interest in the sport no matter what level it is and will always seem enthusiastic about the sport

[hurlock]

i think at times when people are in the comfort of there own home,its easy to complain.when they go to a show gst caught up in the atmosphere etc.they enjoy it ten fold...depending on the promotion
hayemaker's last show was good matches from top to bottom of the bill,i noticed it looked half full,but i bet it more people wont want to miss out on a good night of boxing like that again.
id say a real fan knows his history. understands when someone aint no longer at there best regardless of there record.

[Spud]

I could never be arsed to justify my status as a fan. I couldn't care less whether anybody else thinks I'm a fan or not. I've heard so many tiresome debates amongst football fans about this, for me boxing can do without it.

A lot of people will agree with you Matt - but you will notice a lot of boxers will swear their allegience to a football club to draw in its fans - I know at least 2 high profile boxers who do not have a f*cking clue about the supposed respective clubs they are meant to support - but wearing their footie shirt every now and again sells tickets!!! so whether you like it or not football and boxing are sort of related!!!

[metchampion]

Good little thread there Spud,
I got into Boxing when I was twelve (1982). The first book I got hold of was Nat Fleischer & Sam Andre Pictorial History of Boxing. I must’ve sounded like I’d swallowed it by the time I was thirteen. All actually knew about boxing was what I read and what I heard commentators say on TV. It was a long time before I begun to learn about styles and how to read a fight/er.
Before I was sixteen, I could stand and discuss fighters of yesteryear with the best of ‘em.

I sat ringside with Terry Lawless as his guest for many National Promotions shows and tried hard to listen and digest every word, particularly when Mickey Duff spoke. I remember when Charles Shepherd defended his title against young Matt Brown (smashing lad), I scored the fight. Terry asked to see my card. He looked and said, “Well that tells me you should stick to your job and I’ll stick to mine”. I remember being quite miffed, I was only scoring for a bit of fun and trying to learn how to do it. I hadn’t got the nerve to tell him it was all about opinion and I was entitled to mine. I’m sure he didn’t mean to upset me. But I’ve always tried to bear in mind that, just because your knowledge of the game isn’t as solid as some, doesn’t mean you love the game any less or your not as big a fan as the expert jet set fight folower.

For example the bloke at work (you know, we’ve all met him) who wants to talk about Naz being crap or Bruno being glass jawed, or Bugner being shit, or Henry Cooper getting half hour intervals against Clay….. the list goes on, I try to listen and let them voice their opinion and talk to them in a way that won’t go sailing over their heads by quoting facts figures and dates and sounding like a smart arse. After all, they were interested enough to strike up a conversation in the first place.

For my part, I didn’t go to a pro show until 1994 and up to now, as a fan, official and manager, I reckon I’ve been present at over a thousand fights. But I’m still learning and know very well there are some very knowledgeable die hards out there who make my interest seem only passing. I do know that without them, the game would be dead and buried.

[TheCentre]

Well I like to look at it this way. "fan" according to etymologists may come from the word fanatic. So in the strict sense of the word I think you need more than knowledge to wear the "fan" badge. I think people like me who know a lot about boxing and have seen virtually all the important fights and simply enjoy seeing boxing fights; furthermore, they have a desire to know more are enthusiasts. But fans would be people that get involved in organizing boxing matches or promoting, or following boxing around the globe.

So the person that started this thread is a fan, while 80% of us are enthusiasts.

[stujones]

Into boxing since I was about 4 - I remember having to do a talk in school - we had to just talk about anything. And I chose who is the best "honeyghun, Leonard or Curry".... that was my talk! I was about 5 or 6. Silly mind I thought Honeyghun was - well he beat Curry, and likes of Reg and Harry were saying Curry might beat Leonard!!! That was my logic then. Remember actually going to bed cause I didn't want to see Cruz vs McGuigan cause I knew the Las Vegas heat would get to Barry - and then Dad just telling me the result when I was in Bed. Remember when watching a football show and ITV announced that the King of Boxing Hagler has signed to fight Leonard, remember running to my Dad's workshop saying "Leonards back and he's fighting Hagler" - to the response of "Hagler' will murder him".

Pretty much escalated from there, don't go live much... due to travel and finances - but I watch pretty much all boxing from all over the world. Boxed amateur and would like to think I could hold my own with anyone and like to think I could read a fight pretty well.

[dondada]

"I used to be a Liverpool fan. But they're not doing very well now so I support Manchester United."

I've never forgotten these harrowing words as spoken by DJ-humper Zoe Ball a few years ago.

Not sure why I've posted them though.

[crusader]

To me a "real fan" is someone who not only knows who Ricky Hatton or Oscar De La Hoya are, but also Randall Baily and Oscar Larios, etc. Someone who isnt a real fan will say something like Mike Tyson was the best boxer of all time and a real fan will laugh at them, and bring up SRR, Armstrong, and company.

[Coco]

Being a fan has a lot more to do with enjoyment rather than knowledge, the sort of person who puts himself out to follow the sport, puts his hand in his pocket to pay for trips and PPV, the person who will stay in on a Saturday night to watch it.
I find many very knowledgable people on here who don't seem to be fans at all.

[DG.]

To me a "real fan" is someone who not only knows who Ricky Hatton or Oscar De La Hoya are, but also Randall Baily and Oscar Larios, etc. Someone who isnt a real fan will say something like Mike Tyson was the best boxer of all time and a real fan will laugh at them, and bring up SRR, Armstrong, and company.

[stujones]

I am not sure I agree Coco, I don't know anyone here who just talks about the sport but doesn't actually watch it - be it live or on TV. I think curcumstances are important also, I know a few people who go to every 6 nations game... but don't even know the rules of the sport, just go for the piss up etc... they can afford it and have the time to do it. Does that make them more fans of Rugby than poster on here (with boxing) who cannot go live.... and as I said I don't know anyone here who hasn't got at least EITHER Setanta or Sky Sports.

Bo Dereck has been to more world title fights than me, does that make her more of a fan?

[banjo]

Started watching boxing in the early 90s when I was about 8 or 9, raised on the likes of Bruno, Benn, Eubank and later on Hamed, around the mid 90s my interest grew beyond the British fighters and watched Whitaker, De La Hoya, Roy Jones Jr, Bernard Hopkins, Morales, Barrera, Mayweather and many others, then I expanded into fighters of the past and collecting old fights. As for live boxing I've been to a few big fights but most of the time I went to small hall shows.

I class myself as a real boxing fan, I can watch two young lads slugging it out in four rounders anytime, there doesn't need to be some tinpot belt on the line for me to find a fight interesting. The old gits who lurk around forums sometimes piss me off with their rants about modern fighters not being as good as fighters of the past even though it can never ever be proven so why bother.

[Scrap]

The greatest Fans Ive ever met are those Guys who work their arses off working with the Amatuers. Year in Year out, without them this Sport would be Dead, Thanks Guys

[crusader]

The greatest Fans Ive ever met are those Guys who work their arses off working with the Amatuers. Year in Year out, without them this Sport would be Dead, Thanks Guys

[banjo]

I am not sure I agree Coco, I don't know anyone here who just talks about the sport but doesn't actually watch it - be it live or on TV. I think curcumstances are important also, I know a few people who go to every 6 nations game... but don't even know the rules of the sport, just go for the piss up etc... they can afford it and have the time to do it. Does that make them more fans of Rugby than poster on here (with boxing) who cannot go live.... and as I said I don't know anyone here who hasn't got at least EITHER Setanta or Sky Sports.

Bo Dereck has been to more world title fights than me, does that make her more of a fan?

i would never a judge a boxing fan who doesnt go to see live fights as 90% of the time its an expensive buisness and also a lot of people just like the best seat in the house which is infront of the telly.

Same way I look at it really why pay thousands going to Vegas when you can watch it for 15 quid on the telly

[Coco]

I am not sure I agree Coco, I don't know anyone here who just talks about the sport but doesn't actually watch it - be it live or on TV. I think curcumstances are important also, I know a few people who go to every 6 nations game... but don't even know the rules of the sport, just go for the piss up etc... they can afford it and have the time to do it. Does that make them more fans of Rugby than poster on here (with boxing) who cannot go live.... and as I said I don't know anyone here who hasn't got at least EITHER Setanta or Sky Sports.

Bo Dereck has been to more world title fights than me, does that make her more of a fan?

What I meant was people who extend themselves financially, people who have to prioritise their finances, people who go without so they can afford PPV and trips, also folk who stay in for an evening on their own to watch fights when the rest of their social group is enjoying themselves elsewhere.

[banjo]

when i went to New York to see lewis-grant i couldnt believe how many Brits were so pissed up at the fight, why go all that way and pay all that money to remember nothing?

Mad innit? Especially as most of them are the same feckers who are always moaning about lack of money it beggars belief.

[Loynesy]

There are a few non-linear thoughts, some of which are borderline contradictory, I have regarding this thread - which is, incidentally, a good one, namely:

1. I can only judge a fighter when I've seen him live. I can watch two fighters on TV and always score that bout perfectly well, but I can't then cross reference how X would do against Y. Its utterly different when I see a fighter live: I seem to be able to remember the guys best punch, his hand speed etc and then transpose it to how he would fare against another fighter I've seen live.

2. I'm fortunate in that I am financially solvent, have a bunch of mates that love boxing and an understanding wife, so therefore can build the data base I refer to in 1 above relatively easily. Although I'm happy at a Maloney small show at the York Hall on a Sunday, frankly, I enjoy MSG or a Vegas card far more. Perhaps that makes me a star-f---er, but I think its more that I genuinely enjoy seeing the higher echelons of the sport - no-one expects a genuine Man United fan to need to see Stockport County play, but in boxing there does seem to be a reverse snobbery.On TV, I can watch any fight though.

3. Being a boxer, a manager or promoter certainly does not make you a boxing fan. Of course many are but for a lot (arguably a majority) of the people in the business it is simply a job. Don't blame them for that - I don't read legal agreements drafted by other lawyers unless it can benefit me in some material way, so why should we as fans of a sport expect different higher standards from those who are involved in it.

4. There is a terrible snobbishness amongst boxing fans. Particularly (and Spud, this is not meant as a direct attack on you) there seems to be a yearning to get close to the sport in some way. I'm mildly guilty of it + of course you get a frisson of self-worth pleasure when you have a chat with a prominent fighter, but I can certainly live without ever carrying Ricky Hatton's spit bucket.

Hope I didn't rant unduly.

Loynesy

[stujones]

I am not sure I agree Coco, I don't know anyone here who just talks about the sport but doesn't actually watch it - be it live or on TV. I think curcumstances are important also, I know a few people who go to every 6 nations game... but don't even know the rules of the sport, just go for the piss up etc... they can afford it and have the time to do it. Does that make them more fans of Rugby than poster on here (with boxing) who cannot go live.... and as I said I don't know anyone here who hasn't got at least EITHER Setanta or Sky Sports.

Bo Dereck has been to more world title fights than me, does that make her more of a fan?

What I meant was people who extend themselves financially, people who have to prioritise their finances, people who go without so they can afford PPV and trips, also folk who stay in for an evening on their own to watch fights when the rest of their social group is enjoying themselves elsewhere.

Which I would assume counts ALOT of people here, most if not all. I've got Sky and Setanta JUST for the boxing - sure I watch the football, but I can do without that (Match of the day was okay for me before I got Sky). I also missed out on one of my best mates "local" stag party cause of Khan vs Barrera.... not, what my friends thought, was cause the Mrs was stopping me (as we had a misunderstanding in the "big trip stag")... it was actually cause I wouldn't have missed Khan vs Barrera for much... this was the PPV.

Whilst I am not saying everyone here will do that, but I am sure most have missed a "regular" night out cause of the boxing, or at least modified the evening so the Boxing was watched.

I was seeing a girl (briefly) who was from Cwmbran and my first question to her was "Do you know Gary Lockett"! - not the greatest start, and when she said she didn't.... well warning signs were there.

[Old bones Ian]

Unfortunatly i hve not attended as many shows as a 'real boxing' fan should, this has alot to do with financial situations, and the fact that my 20's was spent in a stupor of various wrongdoings.
any how, i still feel that i am a complete boxing fan.
I'm knowledgeable about most things boxing, and i can explain the reason why a guy with a 5-20 record may still have a chance against a young unbeaten fighter.

[DaveyH]

I'll be lazy and just lift my comments from the other thread D


Regarding the term 'real' boxing fan. I don't think it's a snobbish phrase at all, all I mean when I think of a real boxing fan is someone who follows boxing in general. Someone who is not a 'real' boxing fan would be people like half the blokes I work with, they'll go to the pub to watch the Hatton, Calzaghe and Khan fights and then ask questions like "so when is Calzaghe gonna fight Hatton and decide who's best once and for all?" or "why won't Amir Khan fight Barry McGuigan?" Their only exposure to boxing is the odd column in the Sun and the odd big name fight thats on in the pub. They wouldn't have a clue who Ryan Rhodes is despite the fact he trains just around the corner from where we work and has been a quality fighter for more than a decade.

You get fans like that in any sport, they take an interest when something big is happening but are generally clueless the rest of the time. (I wouldn't be offended if someone accused me of not being a 'real' Rugby fan but I enjoy the Six Nations and the World Cup)

[stujones]

There are a few non-linear thoughts, some of which are borderline contradictory, I have regarding this thread - which is, incidentally, a good one, namely:

1. I can only judge a fighter when I've seen him live. I can watch two fighters on TV and always score that bout perfectly well, but I can't then cross reference how X would do against Y. Its utterly different when I see a fighter live: I seem to be able to remember the guys best punch, his hand speed etc and then transpose it to how he would fare against another fighter I've seen live.

2. I'm fortunate in that I am financially solvent, have a bunch of mates that love boxing and an understanding wife, so therefore can build the data base I refer to in 1 above relatively easily. Although I'm happy at a Maloney small show at the York Hall on a Sunday, frankly, I enjoy MSG or a Vegas card far more. Perhaps that makes me a star-f---er, but I think its more that I genuinely enjoy seeing the higher echelons of the sport - no-one expects a genuine Man United fan to need to see Stockport County play, but in boxing there does seem to be a reverse snobbery.On TV, I can watch any fight though.

3. Being a boxer, a manager or promoter certainly does not make you a boxing fan. Of course many are but for a lot (arguably a majority) of the people in the business it is simply a job. Don't blame them for that - I don't read legal agreements drafted by other lawyers unless it can benefit me in some material way, so why should we as fans of a sport expect different higher standards from those who are involved in it.

4. There is a terrible snobbishness amongst boxing fans. Particularly (and Spud, this is not meant as a direct attack on you) there seems to be a yearning to get close to the sport in some way. I'm mildly guilty of it + of course you get a frisson of self-worth pleasure when you have a chat with a prominent fighter, but I can certainly live without ever carrying Ricky Hatton's spit bucket.

Hope I didn't rant unduly.

Loynesy

1 - I don't agree, but I guess we are all different... well due to my situation, I have to judge from TV and I would like to think I do a reasonable job - Jeff Lacy though

2 - I agree - yes York Hall has a great atmosphere, but if I had the cash give something involving Mayweather, Oscar, Shane any day. Nothing wrong with that IMO - its not star hungry (IMO) its watching the very best.

3 - I agree- nothing pisses me of more than seeing a promoter in an awesome seat chatting away when a fight is on. Sure you get some fans who are involved in the sport - check out McGuigan when he is watching his fighter - his reaction is different.... but I am sure a few promoters wouldn't have a clue about any fighter other than their own and fighters their own chargers might fight. Love to hear some of the promoters views on the likes of Cruz Carbajal, Bebis Mendoza, Jorge Linares, Gerry Pensola etc.

4 - Snobberish? I am not so sure I think its the word I use.. I think its because it is a minority sport for the main, but then every now and again it goes into the mainstream - then you get the opinion of people on the street and it does kind of grate that they haven't been "arsed" to follow the minority fighters.... and for some reason boxing seems to draw more debate in such cases than in other sports. For example, Lewis Hamilton winning the world championship attracted more "lay" fans - and they would talk about it for a bit, but then sort of "bow" to superior knowledge. When it comes to boxing how many "Joe Calzaghe is the greatest fighter of all time" debate have I been in with, with people who couldn't name more than 4 of his title defences, and if you politely "shut up" - you get there "I thought you follow boxing, your quiet cause you know I am right"! I've been in conversations with people about Khan etc lasting hours and they know nowt about boxing... but they know lots about football and usually those conversations last far less time.

[Spud]

I find many very knowledgable people on here who don't seem to be fans at all.

Can I ask you why?

Is it because of their strong opinions of what goes on in boxing which should be left unsaid?

Is it because of the strong opinions on a boxer or a performance of a boxer which forms your opinion? - which again should be unsaid.

I ask because there are some people who say we should just simply admire the courage of boxers and admire the commitment of all promoters and simply leave the criticisms unsaid.