Ezzard Charles: Underrated champion?

[tonyevs]

When his name is mentioned most people think of the poorer heavyweight champions- James Braddock, Jack Sharkey, Ingemar Johansson and our own Frank Bruno spring to mind. And not many, if any, would place him in a list of the all time greats P4P.

But he was so much better than all these, and most heavyweight champions before and after…. just not at heavy.

He is remembered by most as a heavyweight but his real prime was between middle and light heavyweight.

In only his second year as a professional he fought and beat Charley Burley very convincingly over the 10-rnd distance.
Burley, while only a heavy welter was a scourge to the top middleweights at the time.
Ezzard`s record is full of wins over the top middles and light heavyweights of the time: Ken Overlin, Joey Maxim, Jimmy Bivins, Lloyd Marshall, Archie Moore,
Early setbacks to Marshall and Bivins and the heavier and dangerous Elmer Ray were avenged by stoppage wins not long after.
The vastly more experienced Kid Tunero is the only fighter from Ezzard `s early record that was lucky enough to have not sampled his retribution.

And having beaten Jersey Joe Walcott and also outpointing the great Joe Louis he gained recognition as THE heavyweight champion.
He subsequently lost the title to Jersey Joe, as everybody will know.

My thinking is that he would have undoubtedly been good enough to have won world titles from middle right up to heavy if he was given the chance and this would have made him an all-time great remembered and placed along side Robinson, Armstrong, Duran and the rest in the all time P4P greats lists.
The quality of the opposition he fought and beat rival almost any fighter’s record I can think of.
I place him in the top five of an all-time list of P4P fighters, those that don’t agree look at his record in comparison to the fighters you would place higher.

[jimglen]

Nothing underated about Charles, he was the BEST!!!

He like many other greats fell into a period of all-but-forgotten Supermen, but thanks to knowledge boxing fans he is among the All-Time leaders (and this is the part I like) from the SINGLE GREATEST PERIOD IN BOXING HISTORY...

Charles' opposition known and UNKNOWN would have devoured MOST of the names of the last 40 years (the younger fans have got to KNOW this), the competion level was NEVER greater!

Ezzard Charles and company were GREAT... (mid-30's to early-50's)

[tonyevs]

I find it annoying when `knowledgeable` boxing fans fail to have Charles in their top 10 lists, yet repeat the usual names who may deserve their place but do not deserve to be placed higher than the Cincinnati Cobra.
Yes his era was something of a golden age and to stand out from the truly great fighters that plied their trade at that time was an awesome achievement.

[dempseyfire]

When his name is mentioned most people think of the poorer heavyweight champions- James Braddock, Jack Sharkey, Ingemar Johansson and our own Frank Bruno spring to mind. And not many, if any, would place him in a list of the all time greats P4P.

But he was so much better than all these, and most heavyweight champions before and after…. just not at heavy.

He is remembered by most as a heavyweight but his real prime was between middle and light heavyweight.

In only his second year as a professional he fought and beat Charley Burley very convincingly over the 10-rnd distance.
Burley, while only a heavy welter was a scourge to the top middleweights at the time.
Ezzard`s record is full of wins over the top middles and light heavyweights of the time: Ken Overlin, Joey Maxim, Jimmy Bivins, Lloyd Marshall, Archie Moore,
Early setbacks to Marshall and Bivins and the heavier and dangerous Elmer Ray were avenged by stoppage wins not long after.
The vastly more experienced Kid Tunero is the only fighter from Ezzard `s early record that was lucky enough to have not sampled his retribution.

And having beaten Jersey Joe Walcott and also outpointing the great Joe Louis he gained recognition as THE heavyweight champion.
He subsequently lost the title to Jersey Joe, as everybody will know.

My thinking is that he would have undoubtedly been good enough to have won world titles from middle right up to heavy if he was given the chance and this would have made him an all-time great remembered and placed along side Robinson, Armstrong, Duran and the rest in the all time P4P greats lists.
The quality of the opposition he fought and beat rival almost any fighter’s record I can think of.
I place him in the top five of an all-time list of P4P fighters, those that don’t agree look at his record in comparison to the fighters you would place higher.

He seems to get a lot of respect on boards like these. Just the younger fans don't know about him like they don't know about anyone before Ali. I agree he's top 5 lb4lb. Too bad he fought long past his best to muddle his record (as many boxers have done).
By the way, Bruno was never a real HW champ, just like Seldon and Witherspoon were not.
Sorry (I'm not adressing this to you personally), it just frustrates me to hear about all of the "Heavyweight champs" of the 80s and 90s when the wide majority were nothing more then paper titleholders. Tyson is not a "2 time champ" Holyfield is not a "4 time champ". Wladimir Klitschko was never a heavyweight champion, and Roy Jones never was the Heavyweight champion. The old timers must be spinning in their graves when they hear that crap.

[tonyevs]

Too many books have been written on various champs and would be champs, 100`s on Ali, almost as many on Tyson and Audley Harrison even had one out as he got ready to have his first pro fight.
But as far as I know there has not been one written on Ezzard Charles, and the era that he fought in almost guarantees a far more interesting story to tell.
Harry Otty, the author of `Charley Burley and the Black Murderers Row` could and should make a book on Charles, because his style of writing would compliment Charles and educate the newer boxing fan to the great fighters of a long forgotten era.
Too often a boxer gets labelled as great..but for me Ezzard Charles is one fighter that deserves the title more than most.

[silkov]

Charles was definately an all time great who would have gained more recognition if he had won the Middle or Light-heavyweight titles... it's feasible to imagine that Charles could have picked up the light-heavy title if given a shot then moved up and taken the Heavyweight title... he was really a natural Light-heavyweight.
Hvaing read a lot about Charles in magazines from the 50s to 70s it's clear that the vast majority of the writers of that era who had seen Charles at his best regarded him very highly both as a fighter and a person. Charles was seen by some as unexciting but this was partly because he followed in Louis' footsteps so suffered in a simular way to Holmes... but also what many don't know is that Charles was very affected by the death of Sam Baroundi after their fight in '48 and while he had been a hard-punching box-fighter up to then, afterwards he became a much more reserved boxer.... I've read a few articles from the 50s and 60s that say that Charles was never quite the same fighter after Baroundi's death.

[Jaclem]

..so gratifying to read such accurate assessments of my favorite all-time fighter and one of my favorite all time people. i was fortunate enough to live in cincinnati when he was at his prime...i was a friend of the family that managed his early career and have seen films of his greatest days....when his best weight was around 171. his promoter offered a huge purse to lesnvevich's handlers to fight him for the light heavy title....and they said no way. he had to move up to heavy without ever getting a shot at the lower one......and as a result gave away a ton of poundage in manyh of his fights. well.....i've written so much about ezzard here...and elsewhere....that anything from here on would be redundant.

i have been trying to write a book on ezzard for years....but for a lot of complicated reasons, it's hard to get the information needed. still...the project is not dead....i have a friend who may help me...or maybe i'll helping him....in at least getting part of the story told.

if and when any progress is made i will report it here.

[dempseyfire]

Too many books have been written on various champs and would be champs, 100`s on Ali, almost as many on Tyson and Audley Harrison even had one out as he got ready to have his first pro fight.
But as far as I know there has not been one written on Ezzard Charles, and the era that he fought in almost guarantees a far more interesting story to tell.
Harry Otty, the author of `Charley Burley and the Black Murderers Row` could and should make a book on Charles, because his style of writing would compliment Charles and educate the newer boxing fan to the great fighters of a long forgotten era.
Too often a boxer gets labelled as great..but for me Ezzard Charles is one fighter that deserves the title more than most.

I fully agree.

Good luck Jaclem. I understand your frustrations at finding the information on some of these guys-you'd think they fought 100 years ago instead of 50.

[dan1030]

OK, so I'm not about to say anything especially new on this thread, but I just had to throw my two cents in agreeing that Charles is--without a doubt--an all-time great. Whoever wrote that not winning the Lt. Heavy title hurt his historical appreciation was spot on. On another thread, someone (I think it was "Eric the Viking") put it well; all-time best light heavyweight champ: Archie Moore. All-time beast light heavyweight: Ezzard Charles....of course, there are Foster and Spinks fans who might disagree with the Moore assesment (and maybe a Tunney booster or two as well), but I've meet few if any serious boxing fans who disagree with that take on Charles.

[Marciano Frazier]

I think Charles is the epitome of underrated, particularly as a heavyweight. He gets recognition as a top light heavy, but is apparently thought of as another Micheal Moorer at heavyweight, which he certainly was not. He was a great and dominant champion with eight successful title defenses.

I think Charles is top 15 of all time among heavyweights, and top five of all time among the light heavies.

[Simonpure]

I never had the pleasure of seeing Ray Robinson box in person, but of those men that I have seen over the past 60-years.... Ezzard Charles was the most complete boxer/puncher. He had it all.

[The Scranton Assassin]

When his name is mentioned most people think of the poorer heavyweight champions- James Braddock, Jack Sharkey, Ingemar Johansson and our own Frank Bruno spring to mind. And not many, if any, would place him in a list of the all time greats P4P.

But he was so much better than all these, and most heavyweight champions before and after…. just not at heavy.

He is remembered by most as a heavyweight but his real prime was between middle and light heavyweight.

In only his second year as a professional he fought and beat Charley Burley very convincingly over the 10-rnd distance.
Burley, while only a heavy welter was a scourge to the top middleweights at the time.
Ezzard`s record is full of wins over the top middles and light heavyweights of the time: Ken Overlin, Joey Maxim, Jimmy Bivins, Lloyd Marshall, Archie Moore,
Early setbacks to Marshall and Bivins and the heavier and dangerous Elmer Ray were avenged by stoppage wins not long after.
The vastly more experienced Kid Tunero is the only fighter from Ezzard `s early record that was lucky enough to have not sampled his retribution.

And having beaten Jersey Joe Walcott and also outpointing the great Joe Louis he gained recognition as THE heavyweight champion.
He subsequently lost the title to Jersey Joe, as everybody will know.

My thinking is that he would have undoubtedly been good enough to have won world titles from middle right up to heavy if he was given the chance and this would have made him an all-time great remembered and placed along side Robinson, Armstrong, Duran and the rest in the all time P4P greats lists.
The quality of the opposition he fought and beat rival almost any fighter’s record I can think of.
I place him in the top five of an all-time list of P4P fighters, those that don’t agree look at his record in comparison to the fighters you would place higher.

He seems to get a lot of respect on boards like these. Just the younger fans don't know about him like they don't know about anyone before Ali. I agree he's top 5 lb4lb. Too bad he fought long past his best to muddle his record (as many boxers have done).
By the way, Bruno was never a real HW champ, just like Seldon and Witherspoon were not.
Sorry (I'm not adressing this to you personally), it just frustrates me to hear about all of the "Heavyweight champs" of the 80s and 90s when the wide majority were nothing more then paper titleholders. Tyson is not a "2 time champ" Holyfield is not a "4 time champ". Wladimir Klitschko was never a heavyweight champion, and Roy Jones never was the Heavyweight champion. The old timers must be spinning in their graves when they hear that crap.

Witherspoon WAS the real champ. He just got fucked against Holmes and never got a rematch because Holmes is disgrace to boxing. Larry u couldn't hold mt dirty underware if I placed it nicely in your hands. U fuckin @#$%#*!!!

[Marciano Frazier]

When his name is mentioned most people think of the poorer heavyweight champions- James Braddock, Jack Sharkey, Ingemar Johansson and our own Frank Bruno spring to mind. And not many, if any, would place him in a list of the all time greats P4P.

But he was so much better than all these, and most heavyweight champions before and after…. just not at heavy.

He is remembered by most as a heavyweight but his real prime was between middle and light heavyweight.

In only his second year as a professional he fought and beat Charley Burley very convincingly over the 10-rnd distance.
Burley, while only a heavy welter was a scourge to the top middleweights at the time.
Ezzard`s record is full of wins over the top middles and light heavyweights of the time: Ken Overlin, Joey Maxim, Jimmy Bivins, Lloyd Marshall, Archie Moore,
Early setbacks to Marshall and Bivins and the heavier and dangerous Elmer Ray were avenged by stoppage wins not long after.
The vastly more experienced Kid Tunero is the only fighter from Ezzard `s early record that was lucky enough to have not sampled his retribution.

And having beaten Jersey Joe Walcott and also outpointing the great Joe Louis he gained recognition as THE heavyweight champion.
He subsequently lost the title to Jersey Joe, as everybody will know.

My thinking is that he would have undoubtedly been good enough to have won world titles from middle right up to heavy if he was given the chance and this would have made him an all-time great remembered and placed along side Robinson, Armstrong, Duran and the rest in the all time P4P greats lists.
The quality of the opposition he fought and beat rival almost any fighter’s record I can think of.
I place him in the top five of an all-time list of P4P fighters, those that don’t agree look at his record in comparison to the fighters you would place higher.

He seems to get a lot of respect on boards like these. Just the younger fans don't know about him like they don't know about anyone before Ali. I agree he's top 5 lb4lb. Too bad he fought long past his best to muddle his record (as many boxers have done).
By the way, Bruno was never a real HW champ, just like Seldon and Witherspoon were not.
Sorry (I'm not adressing this to you personally), it just frustrates me to hear about all of the "Heavyweight champs" of the 80s and 90s when the wide majority were nothing more then paper titleholders. Tyson is not a "2 time champ" Holyfield is not a "4 time champ". Wladimir Klitschko was never a heavyweight champion, and Roy Jones never was the Heavyweight champion. The old timers must be spinning in their graves when they hear that crap.

Exactly.

[silkov]

When his name is mentioned most people think of the poorer heavyweight champions- James Braddock, Jack Sharkey, Ingemar Johansson and our own Frank Bruno spring to mind. And not many, if any, would place him in a list of the all time greats P4P.

But he was so much better than all these, and most heavyweight champions before and after…. just not at heavy.

He is remembered by most as a heavyweight but his real prime was between middle and light heavyweight.

In only his second year as a professional he fought and beat Charley Burley very convincingly over the 10-rnd distance.
Burley, while only a heavy welter was a scourge to the top middleweights at the time.
Ezzard`s record is full of wins over the top middles and light heavyweights of the time: Ken Overlin, Joey Maxim, Jimmy Bivins, Lloyd Marshall, Archie Moore,
Early setbacks to Marshall and Bivins and the heavier and dangerous Elmer Ray were avenged by stoppage wins not long after.
The vastly more experienced Kid Tunero is the only fighter from Ezzard `s early record that was lucky enough to have not sampled his retribution.

And having beaten Jersey Joe Walcott and also outpointing the great Joe Louis he gained recognition as THE heavyweight champion.
He subsequently lost the title to Jersey Joe, as everybody will know.

My thinking is that he would have undoubtedly been good enough to have won world titles from middle right up to heavy if he was given the chance and this would have made him an all-time great remembered and placed along side Robinson, Armstrong, Duran and the rest in the all time P4P greats lists.
The quality of the opposition he fought and beat rival almost any fighter’s record I can think of.
I place him in the top five of an all-time list of P4P fighters, those that don’t agree look at his record in comparison to the fighters you would place higher.

He seems to get a lot of respect on boards like these. Just the younger fans don't know about him like they don't know about anyone before Ali. I agree he's top 5 lb4lb. Too bad he fought long past his best to muddle his record (as many boxers have done).
By the way, Bruno was never a real HW champ, just like Seldon and Witherspoon were not.
Sorry (I'm not adressing this to you personally), it just frustrates me to hear about all of the "Heavyweight champs" of the 80s and 90s when the wide majority were nothing more then paper titleholders. Tyson is not a "2 time champ" Holyfield is not a "4 time champ". Wladimir Klitschko was never a heavyweight champion, and Roy Jones never was the Heavyweight champion. The old timers must be spinning in their graves when they hear that crap.

Witherspoon WAS the real champ. He just got fucked against Holmes and never got a rematch because Holmes is disgrace to boxing. Larry u couldn't hold mt dirty underware if I placed it nicely in your hands. U fuckin @#$%#*!!!

Larry was a true champion and a great one!... try looking at his record!!!...

[kovit]

Silkov, since you are busy with another article, can you please do me one favor: can you please answer my questions about how tall is Prince Charles Williams standing in height?

[silkov]

6 foot one and a half I believe.... though you should be asking me on my measuring thread Kovit!.... 8) :x

[kovit]

Thanks Silkov for telling me the answer.

I'm sorry that I barging in on you like that, because I was asking you many times on your article measuring tapes, but you were busy away with other articles, or you just carrying away.

[silkov]

I'm always being carried away Kovit!.... 8) :x 8)

[elmersalsa]

Ezzard Cahrles...What a beautiful and classy boxer inside and ouside the ring. He had it all: speed, endurance, movement, skills, determination and a decent punch. He had to cahnge his style a little bit because he killed Sam Baroudi. He could have been esaily A TRIPLE CROWN CHAMP if given the opportunity in the 40s.

He licked the great Archie Moore 3 times and Joey Maxim 4 times!!! He also beat a great amount of great quality black fighters like him that were denied a tilte shot in his era.

He's on my list of the 15 greatest fighters of all time. Could have been in the top 10, but lost too many bouts at the end of his career. He sholud have called it quits after the second Marciano classic war in 1954.

To me, he's the most underrated fighter of all time!!!... WHAT A FIGHTER!!!

[Simonpure]

Elmersalsa....We used the same phrase in describing the great Ezzard Charles and it is worth repeating....HE HAD IT ALL!!

[Jaclem]

...very rewarding to read this belated praise for my all-time favorite boxer and one of my all-time favorite people.

...just for the record, he beat Joey Maxim FIVE times. ....
those late career losses shouldn't be counted against him He would have love to have retired...and he did once..too late...and came back...much too late. he had no choice...he was flat broke and never got the accolades from the public when he was champion....so having held the title gave him no post-championship financial rewards.

great fighter...great human being...tragic figure.

[Tantum]

Ezzard Cahrles...What a beautiful and classy boxer inside and ouside the ring. He had it all: speed, endurance, movement, skills, determination and a decent punch. He had to cahnge his style a little bit because he killed Sam Baroudi. He could have been esaily A TRIPLE CROWN CHAMP if given the opportunity in the 40s.

He licked the great Archie Moore 3 times and Joey Maxim 4 times!!! He also beat a great amount of great quality black fighters like him that were denied a tilte shot in his era.

He's on my list of the 15 greatest fighters of all time. Could have been in the top 10, but lost too many bouts at the end of his career. He sholud have called it quits after the second Marciano classic war in 1954.

To me, he's the most underrated fighter of all time!!!... WHAT A FIGHTER!!!

HELLO FOLKS!!

[tonyevs]

I`ve mentioned his name over on the british scene forum, just updated so anybody clicking over may read different opinions by the people that know more than a little on this forum.

I feel he has suffered for only getting a title chance at a weight way past his best :(
imagine if Roy Jones or James Toney only got remembered for their heavyweight days

Shame nothing really has been written on the great man

[dempseyfire]

I think a number under-rate him b/c all they have seen are his HW fights in the early-mid 1950s when he was really past his best.

At light HW the guy was a destroyer. And a pretty decent HW to boot.

[Ezzard]

Great thread here...

I've neevr seen his MW fights. Anybody here seen him at the weight? Anythoughts on how he'd have handled the greats of the division?

He was still an excellent HW champion despite his size. I have him in my top 3 p4p...