Classic American West Coast Boxing

[dagosd2000]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsUaJG35pvY

Felicidades

Another Birthday Song For Connie

[dagosd2000]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QuXKirNX3I

Amor Eterno

Rocio Durcal (she was dying of cancer when she sang this)

Yeah,the culture is still intact This one is for the wives

[dagosd2000]

SAN ANTONIO

My wife's hometown,Jiquilpan,is small. The pueblo of San Antonio is even smaller. Oh,there are even smaller pueblitos,but San Antonio is just fine.I try to visit all of them. About 20 minutes outside of Jiquilpan just off the two lane asphalt winding road that goes up and down into the valleys is San Antonio.The green hills off to the horizon.The dairy and the school across the road. I'll pull the car over and park next to the little plaza.I can park anywhere. The church is in the back .Behind the church is a small laguna. The water is like glass.The church looks very big compared to the little houses around it. The doors are always open. The plaza is quiet.Only the birds talk to each other.

I get out and walk to any bench to rest my aching hip. The little store is on the other side of the plaza. I want a raspado(snowcone),but I want to rest my hip a little . After I'm ready, I walk to the little store. A dark skinned "morena" with long straight black hair and big eyes makes me a raspado. She shaves the ice into the paper cup. I ask for limon. Lime. She pumps the green syrup into the paper cup and hands it to me. Her wide smile reveals beautifull white teeth. Her smile accents her modesty.She lowers her eyes as she hands me the raspado. Que bonita.

I walk to the church. It's empty and cool inside. I sit in a pew and enjoy the raspado. After drinking the last of the syrup,I wait and gaze at the inside .The plain beautifull altar. The high adobe ceiling. It's very warm outside. I'll spend the rest of my time inside the church before going back to the car.

Walking back to the car, I don't feel the pain in my hip as much. I can still hear the birds talking to each other.

I think about San Antonio a lot lately.

[kikibalt]

Rog...Connie said thanks for the songs....

[kikibalt]

Connie,

Grattis på födelsedagen!

Tom..Connie can't read that, but she said thanks...

[kikibalt]

To Connie from me....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5TFFkDQ8Ok
"Happy Happy Birthday Baby"

The Tune-Weavers

[raylawpc]

Connie,

Grattis på födelsedagen!

Tom..Connie can't read that, but she said thanks...

Oops! I forgot to include the translation. It's "happy birthday" from your Swedish friend, Tom.

[Rick Farris]

Armando Muniz & Mexico's "Cut Doctor" . . .


Today I joined Armando Muniz, Gwen Adair and Josie Arrey-Mejia at the LAX Marriott Hotel to make the arrangements for this year's WBHOF Banquet, wihich will be held on October 24th. After our meeting with the hotel rep, the four of us had lunch together in one of the hotel's restaurants.

Mando and I were talking about a serious cut he had received in a bout with Hedgeman Lewis, a close bout that Muniz won.

After the fight, Dr. Jack Useem patched Mando up quickly, using ten stitches. A couple of weeks later, Armando joined his manager, Vic Weiss, referee Rudy Jordan, and his trainer, Louie Jareque on a trip to Mexico to watch Welter Champ Jose Napoles KO Argentina's Horacio Saldena in a title defense.

While in Mexico, Muniz was introduced to Dr. Horacio Ramirez, a legendary cut doctor who worked with the Napoles camp. The doctor noticed Muniz's cut was not healing properly and told them to meet him at his office. An hour later, the doctor told Muniz he wanted to re-stitch the wound correctly. At first, Mando was sceptical. Armando knew that in two months he would be fighting Napoles for the title and feared the doctor might try something crooked, however, the doctor was unaware that Napoles next bout was already in the works.

Armando was instructed to take a seat. The doctor threw a towel over the fighter's shoulder and grabbed a razor blade out of his bag. He reached over and slit Mando's cut wide open and the blood dripped downonto the towel. "Man, that really stung when he slit my brow, but once it was open, the doctor removed all the scar tissue that had formed," Muniz said. "He then re-stitched the wound using 25 stitches."

Muniz was amazed that the wound healed perfectly and quickly. Two months later, Muniz battled the great Jose Napoles hard and, without question, defeated the champion in a brutal bout that was stopped when Napoles cuts were bleeding beyond control. Mando had outfought the great champion and should have returned home with the belt. However, as so often happens in Mexico, the official gave the fight to Napoles on some BS technicality.

Muniz laughed as he told of his own wounds. "I was cut over my right eye, and a couple other places. However, despite taking a few direct hits to the old wound over my left eye that had been re-stitched, it stayed sealed and would remain so for the rest of my career."

"I was amazed", Mando said. "Dr. Ramirez did such a great job, fixing a wound that surely would have cost me victories in later fights."

"Can you imagine, having a Mexican docotor that worked for Napoles, do for me what one of our own doctors was unable to do." The former welterweight contender and World Boxing Hall of Fame President smiled as he told the story. Truly amazing.


-Rick Farris

Rick
That was a great story. I know Napoles had some procedures done to try to improve his cuts around his eyes,but things seemed to get worse.However Rick when Mando talks about not having anymore trouble with his cuts,the second Napoles fight was as ugly as it gets. I remember both men standing in the ring after 15 rounds. Their faces looked like raw hamburger.

Rick
Did Amando ever mention if Napoles ever said anything to him about the first fight? Although Jose was my guy,that was a robbery. Rog

Roger . . . I'll ask Mando if he and Napoles have discussed the first fight. I'll be speaking with him in the morning. You are right about Mando bleeding in future bouts, especially the second with Napoles, however, not from the cut stitched by Dr. Ramirez (according to Mando). Mando is very interested in your paintings and once we have the details of the banquet worked out, I'd like to set up a conversation with you, Mando and the others on the Executive board, perhaps over the phone, to discuss showcasing your work at the event. I have a couple of ideas and we'll see what we can come up with. Your art is exceptional & unique, and should be seen by the boxing public. I believe there will be great interest in it. Who knows what might come from that?

A side note: According to Mando Muniz, Jose Napoles health is failing. I don't know to what extent, but this past banquet was the first that he has missed in years. I still remember at the autograph signing/memorbelia show for the 2006 banquet, the year Roberto Duran was inducted. Dan Hanley, our cameraman and myself were hoping to get Duran for an interview. I wasn't yet associated with the HOF, so we hadn't been able to set anything up. I saw Duran & Napoles together, posing for pictures. I thought to myself, a match between these two greats at 147 lbs. would have been fantastic. Of course, Napoles had been long retired before Roberto had reached that division. Still, a guy can dream.

-Rick Farris

[Chuck1052]

Happy Birthday, Connie!

- Chuck Johnston

[kikibalt]

Happy Birthday, Connie!

- Chuck Johnston

Thank you, Chuck.

Connie

[scartissue]

Continuing my 'greatest contenders' piece. Here are the 175 lbers. Roger, Langford would probably be a force of nature at 175.

Scartissue

LT. HEAVY
Sam Langford (Can) (0)
Harry Greb (USA) (0)
Gene Tunney (USA) (0)
Young Stribling (USA) (1)
Mickey Walker (USA) (2)
Jimmy Bivins (USA) (0)
Lloyd Marshall (USA) (0)
Ezzard Charles (USA) (0)
Jorge Ahumada (Arg) (3)
Avenamar Peralta (Arg) (0)
Richie Kates (USA) (2)
Yaqui Lopez (Mex) (4)
Jesse Burnett (USA) (1)
James Scott (USA) (0)
James Toney (USA) (0)

Now this is more like it for Langford, facing a man in the opposite corner who weighs 175. At this weight he would be awesome in any era. Harry Greb, fought 5 Lt. Heavy champs as well as banging heads (don't believe for a minute that I'm kidding) with Gene Tunney no less than 5 times. They've never been constructed any tougher. As for Tunney, he fought the most of his brilliant career at Lt. Heavy, not moving up until a year prior to his challenge for Dempsey's big man's crown. Young Stribling, the 'King of the Canebrakes', fought 6 Lt. Heavy champs and 3 Heavy kings, but was more at home at 175. Beat Loughran, Rosenbloom and Slattery but lost to Berlanbach for the title. Mickey Walker, fought everyone from Welter to Heavy and didn't give a damn what they weighed. Made two exceptional challenges for the title against Loughran and Rosenbloom. Jimmy Bivins, avoided like the plague in two divisions, yet, beat 5 Lt. Heavy champs including Archie Moore as well as future Heavy champ Ezzard Charles. So let's say no more. Lloyd Marshall, the closest he came to a shot at the title was his bout against Bivins for the 'Duration' title during WWII, in which Bivins had to pick himself off the canvas to stop Marshall in the 13th. Marshall, one of my two division contenders, beat Maxim, Christoforidis and Mills at 175. Ezzard Charles, my personal pick for the greatest Lt. Heavy of all time, beat four 175 lb. champs as well as uncrowned kings Bivins (4 times) and Marshall (twice). Had Archie Moore's number, going 3-0 against the Mongoose. Jorge Ahumada, came out of the Buenos Aires ring wars seeking fame and fortune in NY. Was robbed in his 15 round draw with Foster and went head to head in unsuccessful bids against Conteh and Galindez for the WBC and WBA titles respectively. Along the way up the ladder he beat Galindez, Peralta, Andy Kendall, Bobby Cassidy and Ray anderson. Avenamar Peralta, Gregorio's little brother, had all the talent in the world but showed bad judgement when it came to displaying his wares. Whereas Ahumada chose NY to make his assault on the world stage, Peralta chose Europe, which afforded him a decent living but prevented that final stretch for the title. Nevertheless, he did beat Galindez (3 times), Ahumada, Bossman Jones, TNT Carroll and Ray Anderson. Richie Kates, with wins over Pierre Fourie, Len Hutchins, Jimmy Dupree and Don Fullmer, took on Galindez in two brutal 15 rounders and nearly decapitated Saad Muhammad for the NABF title in '78 before the miracle man got up and took him out in 6. Alvaro (Yaqui) Lopez, a fighting machine who fought competitively in four challenges for the crown against Galindez (twice), Conteh and Saad Muhammad. Also beat Rossman, Burnett (twice), Kendall and Tony Mundine. Jesse Burnett, the 70s version of Archie Moore. This slick old-timer beat Lopez (twice), Mundine (twice), Bossman Jones, Lonnie Bennett and retired Victor Galindez. James Scott, with only the four walls of Rahway State Prison holding him back and the ABC cameras rolling, he entertained audiences with his wins over Mustafa Muhammad, Lopez, Burnett, Kates and Bunny Johnson, until the novelty wore off and the cameras shut down. And finally, James Toney, at 168 (let's just call it Lt. Heavy) he displayed counter punching wizardry against Iran Barkley and proved he could war in the trenches against Prince Charles Williams. Unfortunately, excessive time at the dinner table prevented him from enjoying a lengthy stay at Lt. Heavy.

Honorable mention: Tommy Gibbons, Bobo Olson, Doug Jones, Henry Hank, Mauro Mina, Jimmy Dupree, Len Hutchins.

[dagosd2000]

Armando Muniz & Mexico's "Cut Doctor" . . .


Today I joined Armando Muniz, Gwen Adair and Josie Arrey-Mejia at the LAX Marriott Hotel to make the arrangements for this year's WBHOF Banquet, wihich will be held on October 24th. After our meeting with the hotel rep, the four of us had lunch together in one of the hotel's restaurants.

Mando and I were talking about a serious cut he had received in a bout with Hedgeman Lewis, a close bout that Muniz won.

After the fight, Dr. Jack Useem patched Mando up quickly, using ten stitches. A couple of weeks later, Armando joined his manager, Vic Weiss, referee Rudy Jordan, and his trainer, Louie Jareque on a trip to Mexico to watch Welter Champ Jose Napoles KO Argentina's Horacio Saldena in a title defense.

While in Mexico, Muniz was introduced to Dr. Horacio Ramirez, a legendary cut doctor who worked with the Napoles camp. The doctor noticed Muniz's cut was not healing properly and told them to meet him at his office. An hour later, the doctor told Muniz he wanted to re-stitch the wound correctly. At first, Mando was sceptical. Armando knew that in two months he would be fighting Napoles for the title and feared the doctor might try something crooked, however, the doctor was unaware that Napoles next bout was already in the works.

Armando was instructed to take a seat. The doctor threw a towel over the fighter's shoulder and grabbed a razor blade out of his bag. He reached over and slit Mando's cut wide open and the blood dripped downonto the towel. "Man, that really stung when he slit my brow, but once it was open, the doctor removed all the scar tissue that had formed," Muniz said. "He then re-stitched the wound using 25 stitches."

Muniz was amazed that the wound healed perfectly and quickly. Two months later, Muniz battled the great Jose Napoles hard and, without question, defeated the champion in a brutal bout that was stopped when Napoles cuts were bleeding beyond control. Mando had outfought the great champion and should have returned home with the belt. However, as so often happens in Mexico, the official gave the fight to Napoles on some BS technicality.

Muniz laughed as he told of his own wounds. "I was cut over my right eye, and a couple other places. However, despite taking a few direct hits to the old wound over my left eye that had been re-stitched, it stayed sealed and would remain so for the rest of my career."

"I was amazed", Mando said. "Dr. Ramirez did such a great job, fixing a wound that surely would have cost me victories in later fights."

"Can you imagine, having a Mexican docotor that worked for Napoles, do for me what one of our own doctors was unable to do." The former welterweight contender and World Boxing Hall of Fame President smiled as he told the story. Truly amazing.


-Rick Farris

Rick
That was a great story. I know Napoles had some procedures done to try to improve his cuts around his eyes,but things seemed to get worse.However Rick when Mando talks about not having anymore trouble with his cuts,the second Napoles fight was as ugly as it gets. I remember both men standing in the ring after 15 rounds. Their faces looked like raw hamburger.

Rick
Did Amando ever mention if Napoles ever said anything to him about the first fight? Although Jose was my guy,that was a robbery. Rog

Roger . . . I'll ask Mando if he and Napoles have discussed the first fight. I'll be speaking with him in the morning. You are right about Mando bleeding in future bouts, especially the second with Napoles, however, not from the cut stitched by Dr. Ramirez (according to Mando). Mando is very interested in your paintings and once we have the details of the banquet worked out, I'd like to set up a conversation with you, Mando and the others on the Executive board, perhaps over the phone, to discuss showcasing your work at the event. I have a couple of ideas and we'll see what we can come up with. Your art is exceptional & unique, and should be seen by the boxing public. I believe there will be great interest in it. Who knows what might come from that?

A side note: According to Mando Muniz, Jose Napoles health is failing. I don't know to what extent, but this past banquet was the first that he has missed in years. I still remember at the autograph signing/memorbelia show for the 2006 banquet, the year Roberto Duran was inducted. Dan Hanley, our cameraman and myself were hoping to get Duran for an interview. I wasn't yet associated with the HOF, so we hadn't been able to set anything up. I saw Duran & Napoles together, posing for pictures. I thought to myself, a match between these two greats at 147 lbs. would have been fantastic. Of course, Napoles had been long retired before Roberto had reached that division. Still, a guy can dream.

-Rick Farris

Thanks Pal
When Gato and Barb were at my place for a meal,Gato said that he talks to Mantequilla on a random basis. Gato said that Jose is battling diabetes and has lost a of weight. He also said that Jose was trying to work with a young stable of fighters,but gave it up because his the fighters didn't show much desire to train. Jose lives in Ciudad Juarez. Rog

[raylawpc]

Rick
That was a great story. I know Napoles had some procedures done to try to improve his cuts around his eyes,but things seemed to get worse.However Rick when Mando talks about not having anymore trouble with his cuts,the second Napoles fight was as ugly as it gets. I remember both men standing in the ring after 15 rounds. Their faces looked like raw hamburger.

Rick
Did Amando ever mention if Napoles ever said anything to him about the first fight? Although Jose was my guy,that was a robbery. Rog

Roger . . . I'll ask Mando if he and Napoles have discussed the first fight. I'll be speaking with him in the morning. You are right about Mando bleeding in future bouts, especially the second with Napoles, however, not from the cut stitched by Dr. Ramirez (according to Mando). Mando is very interested in your paintings and once we have the details of the banquet worked out, I'd like to set up a conversation with you, Mando and the others on the Executive board, perhaps over the phone, to discuss showcasing your work at the event. I have a couple of ideas and we'll see what we can come up with. Your art is exceptional & unique, and should be seen by the boxing public. I believe there will be great interest in it. Who knows what might come from that?

A side note: According to Mando Muniz, Jose Napoles health is failing. I don't know to what extent, but this past banquet was the first that he has missed in years. I still remember at the autograph signing/memorbelia show for the 2006 banquet, the year Roberto Duran was inducted. Dan Hanley, our cameraman and myself were hoping to get Duran for an interview. I wasn't yet associated with the HOF, so we hadn't been able to set anything up. I saw Duran & Napoles together, posing for pictures. I thought to myself, a match between these two greats at 147 lbs. would have been fantastic. Of course, Napoles had been long retired before Roberto had reached that division. Still, a guy can dream.

-Rick Farris

Thanks Pal
When Gato and Barb were at my place for a meal,Gato said that he talks to Mantequilla on a random basis. Gato said that Jose is battling diabetes and has lost a of weight. He also said that Jose was trying to work with a young stable of fighters,but gave it up because his the fighters didn't show much desire to train. Jose lives in Ciudad Juarez. Rog

Rick: Didn't you used to train with Napoles when he fought in LA? Wasn't he kind of a bad a** in the gym? I read somewhere that he was really rough on his sparring partners - one of those guys who treated very sparring session as if it were a title fight.

[raylawpc]

While googling Jose Napoles, I came across this obit for Carlos Monzon by Bob Mee:

Carlos Monzon, boxer: born San Javier, Argentina 7 August 1942; died Santa Fe, Argentina 8 January 1995.

Carlos Monzon, one of the greatest middleweight boxers in history, spent the last five years of his life serving a jail sentence for the murder of his lover, Alicia Muniz.

When he died, driving down a road near Santa Fe, in Argentina, on Sunday, Monzon was out of prison on a permitted home visit. His car left the road and he was killed, but the exact circumstances are at present unclear, just as much of his life, most notoriously the incident which led to his incarceration, was mysterious.

Monzon was a hard, violent man. After he was found guilty of killing Muniz, he said, "Me and my bad temper are the ones really responsible. Yes, my bad temper." Yet he was an extraordinary athlete, one of the leading sporting figures of his generation. In the ring he was grim, expressionless, cold, his personality understated. Outside it he was usually jovial, always the centre of attention, readily quotable. Even when he was in jail writers travelled to interview him.

Recently the film star Mickey Rourke, while on location in Argentina, met Monzon and took a crew with him to film the occasion for posterity. Rourke's reputation in the entertainment business is that of a hard man, but either he believed his own publicity, or being a tough guy in showbiz wasn't enough for him. He won some novice professional fights, and appeared to consider this a common bond with Monzon. He felt moved to swap boxing stories with the former champion - and eventually persuaded him to take part in a sparring session in the prison gym. Filmed, of course.

It was a brief, extremely nasty, and embarrassing experience for the actor. A single blow left him unconscious on his back. The film crew sold the stills.

Monzon was born one of 12 children of Indian stock in San Javier near the city of Santa Fe in 1942. As a boy he sold newspapers, shone shoes and delivered milk, but his mean streak erupted more than once. Once he was jailed for starting a riot at a football match, another time for brawling on a bus. He ran a string of whores. Eventually, police interest persuaded him to flee to Brazil.

Somehow, he emerged from this chaos as a middleweight boxer of the very highest class. He was deceptive and cunning. He appeared to do nothing exceptionally well, and yet dealt with every world-class opponent who was put in front of him until his retirement as undisputed champion in 1977. He lost only three points decisions, all before the end of 1964, and he was unbeaten in the last 82 of his 102 professional fights.

He won the middleweight title in Rome in 1970 by outpunching the Italian playboy Nino Benvenuti in 12 rounds. Monzon was fuelled by an incident at the weigh-in in which he claimed Benvenuti "touched my ass". "I looked at him and thought, `Tonight I will kill you.' When the referee stopped the fight he was correct. That night I would have killed Benvenuti."

In Latin America Monzon was an instant hero. And he stayed that way for the next 18 years. "Monzon was always Monzon," the Argentine boxing writer Carlos Irusta said. "Living in the fast lane, attending parties, driving a Mercedes, always the centre of attention in magazines and on television programmes."

Benvenuti was knocked out by Monzon in round three of a chilling rematch in Monte Carlo, and others, the best men of the generation, followed. Monzon beat Emile Griffith (twice), Denny Moyer, Jean-Claude Bouttier (twice), Tom Bogs, Bennie Briscoe, Jose Napoles, Tony Mundine, Tony Licata and Gratien Tonna.

In 1974 the World Boxing Council withdrew recognition of Monzon on a technicality and installed their own champion, Rodrigo Valdes of Colombia. Monzon retained the approval of the rival World Boxing Association - and the sporting public. In 1976 in MonteCarlo they met to settle the argument in one of the peak moments of the boxing decade. Monzon won a classic struggle on points, and did so again in a rematch in July 1977.

But he felt he was fading at the age of 34 and retired. Every afternoon he could be found in La Cuyantina bar, in Buenos Aires, playing cards with a group of old men. Night time found him in a club somewhere.

There were two women in his life before the ill-fated Muniz. He married Beatriz Garcia when they were young, but their volatile relationship ended when she shot him. He carried one of her bullets in his back for the rest of his life.

Garcia was followed by an actress, Susanna Gimenez, and then came Alicia Muniz, whom he met at an airport in 1979. Their relationship was as stormy as his others, although they had a son, Maximiliano, in 1981, and Monzon declared happily, "This is the beginning of a new life for me."

But at around 5.30am on Valentine's Day 1988, at his house in Mar del Plata, Monzon's temper got the better of him. Muniz, 32, toppled from the second-floor balcony and died of massive head injuries. Monzon fell, too, but merely injured an arm.

He claimed it was an accident, but medical tests proved Muniz had received substantial injuries to her neck and was unconscious before she hit the ground.

On 3 July 1989, in a courtroom jammed with 1,000 onlookers, with thousands more milling outside, three judges handed down a unanimous guilty decision. He was jailed for 11 years.

It was a sentence he was destined not to complete.

[Rick Farris]

Rick: Didn't you used to train with Napoles when he fought in LA? Wasn't he kind of a bad a** in the gym? I read somewhere that he was really rough on his sparring partners - one of those guys who treated very sparring session as if it were a title fight.[/quote]
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Tom . . . When Napoles was training for his first fight with Hedgeman Lewis (dec. 1971), I was a sparring partner for Ruben Olivares who was training for a title defense against Jesus Pimentel on the same card. I wrote a story on Napoles for the Cyber Boxing Zone and in that story I share memories of Napoles in training for that bout. Somehow, we had simple confrontation, one that would not have turned out great for myself, but one I had to address. Here is a link to the Napoles story I wrote, and in it you'll find my memories of the incident, as well as what I learned about Napoles in the gym.

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/b ... tm#napoles


-Rick Farris

[Rick Farris]

Rick
Did Amando ever mention if Napoles ever said anything to him about the first fight? Although Jose was my guy,that was a robbery. Rog
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Roger . . . I just got off the phone with Armando and he gave me the answer to your question.

A few years back, a fund raiser was held in L.A. honoring Mantequilla. Mando Muniz was asked to be the MC of the event. Muniz told the audience of what an honor it was to fight the great Napoles, and praised him as an all-time great Hall of Famer. After the event, as Muniz was leaving, Napoles pulled him aside in private, and told Mando how much he respected him. He also told him in Spanish, "I had nothing to do with the outcome", acknowleding that Muniz had been a victim of a raw deal.

That was pretty much it. Aside from that, these are two special Hall of Famers who have become friends and share a strong mutual respect.

Another fact that does not come out about that fight, was the fact that Muniz was fouled no less tha 14 times in the 11th round. Mando said the referee was no help, and would let Napoles do as he wished in attempting to retain his title. "I was trying to protect myself from low blows, and as a result took more punishment above the belt.

Another piece of good news for us, the regulars of this great thread, Mando is very aware of the "Classic American West Coast Boxing" thread, has viewed it, and now will attempt to "log in" and answer our questions directly, as El Gato does on occasion. Ths is something we had discussed in the past and he would like to join us.

We are together doing things that will recognize and honor the past greats, those who have been overlooked in previous years. With the help of guys on this thread, such as Dan Hanley,Tom Ray, Hap Navarro and our friend, John Bardelli, we will put straight a lot of incorrect biographical info that has found it's way into our annual banquet program, bring things up to date, and recognize "forgotten" greats. We want a HOF that recognizes the best of the past, and the present. It's our goal, and we shall succeed. This about history and recognition, not politics and BS. We would like to incorporate boxers of today, future Hall of Famers, in our annual event.


-Rick Farris

[raylawpc]

Rick: Didn't you used to train with Napoles when he fought in LA? Wasn't he kind of a bad a** in the gym? I read somewhere that he was really rough on his sparring partners - one of those guys who treated very sparring session as if it were a title fight.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Tom . . . When Napoles was training for his first fight with Hedgeman Lewis (dec. 1971), I was a sparring partner for Ruben Olivares who was training for a title defense against Jesus Pimentel on the same card. I wrote a story on Napoles for the Cyber Boxing Zone and in that story I share memories of Napoles in training for that bout. Somehow, we had simple confrontation, one that would not have turned out great for myself, but one I had to address. Here is a link to the Napoles story I wrote, and in it you'll find my memories of the incident, as well as what I learned about Napoles in the gym.

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/b ... tm#napoles


-Rick Farris[/quote]

Thanks Rick.

[kikibalt]

Great story on Jose Napoles, Rick, I had read it some time back, but it was great reading it again.
Thanks

[Rick Farris]

Great story on Jose Napoles, Rick, I had read it some time back, but it was great reading it again.
Thanks

Thanks, Frank.


-Rick

[Rick Farris]

While googling Jose Napoles, I came across this obit for Carlos Monzon by Bob Mee:

Carlos Monzon, boxer: born San Javier, Argentina 7 August 1942; died Santa Fe, Argentina 8 January 1995.

Carlos Monzon, one of the greatest middleweight boxers in history, spent the last five years of his life serving a jail sentence for the murder of his lover, Alicia Muniz.

When he died, driving down a road near Santa Fe, in Argentina, on Sunday, Monzon was out of prison on a permitted home visit. His car left the road and he was killed, but the exact circumstances are at present unclear, just as much of his life, most notoriously the incident which led to his incarceration, was mysterious.

Monzon was a hard, violent man. After he was found guilty of killing Muniz, he said, "Me and my bad temper are the ones really responsible. Yes, my bad temper." Yet he was an extraordinary athlete, one of the leading sporting figures of his generation. In the ring he was grim, expressionless, cold, his personality understated. Outside it he was usually jovial, always the centre of attention, readily quotable. Even when he was in jail writers travelled to interview him.

Recently the film star Mickey Rourke, while on location in Argentina, met Monzon and took a crew with him to film the occasion for posterity. Rourke's reputation in the entertainment business is that of a hard man, but either he believed his own publicity, or being a tough guy in showbiz wasn't enough for him. He won some novice professional fights, and appeared to consider this a common bond with Monzon. He felt moved to swap boxing stories with the former champion - and eventually persuaded him to take part in a sparring session in the prison gym. Filmed, of course.

It was a brief, extremely nasty, and embarrassing experience for the actor. A single blow left him unconscious on his back. The film crew sold the stills.

Monzon was born one of 12 children of Indian stock in San Javier near the city of Santa Fe in 1942. As a boy he sold newspapers, shone shoes and delivered milk, but his mean streak erupted more than once. Once he was jailed for starting a riot at a football match, another time for brawling on a bus. He ran a string of whores. Eventually, police interest persuaded him to flee to Brazil.

Somehow, he emerged from this chaos as a middleweight boxer of the very highest class. He was deceptive and cunning. He appeared to do nothing exceptionally well, and yet dealt with every world-class opponent who was put in front of him until his retirement as undisputed champion in 1977. He lost only three points decisions, all before the end of 1964, and he was unbeaten in the last 82 of his 102 professional fights.

He won the middleweight title in Rome in 1970 by outpunching the Italian playboy Nino Benvenuti in 12 rounds. Monzon was fuelled by an incident at the weigh-in in which he claimed Benvenuti "touched my ass". "I looked at him and thought, `Tonight I will kill you.' When the referee stopped the fight he was correct. That night I would have killed Benvenuti."

In Latin America Monzon was an instant hero. And he stayed that way for the next 18 years. "Monzon was always Monzon," the Argentine boxing writer Carlos Irusta said. "Living in the fast lane, attending parties, driving a Mercedes, always the centre of attention in magazines and on television programmes."

Benvenuti was knocked out by Monzon in round three of a chilling rematch in Monte Carlo, and others, the best men of the generation, followed. Monzon beat Emile Griffith (twice), Denny Moyer, Jean-Claude Bouttier (twice), Tom Bogs, Bennie Briscoe, Jose Napoles, Tony Mundine, Tony Licata and Gratien Tonna.

In 1974 the World Boxing Council withdrew recognition of Monzon on a technicality and installed their own champion, Rodrigo Valdes of Colombia. Monzon retained the approval of the rival World Boxing Association - and the sporting public. In 1976 in MonteCarlo they met to settle the argument in one of the peak moments of the boxing decade. Monzon won a classic struggle on points, and did so again in a rematch in July 1977.

But he felt he was fading at the age of 34 and retired. Every afternoon he could be found in La Cuyantina bar, in Buenos Aires, playing cards with a group of old men. Night time found him in a club somewhere.

There were two women in his life before the ill-fated Muniz. He married Beatriz Garcia when they were young, but their volatile relationship ended when she shot him. He carried one of her bullets in his back for the rest of his life.

Garcia was followed by an actress, Susanna Gimenez, and then came Alicia Muniz, whom he met at an airport in 1979. Their relationship was as stormy as his others, although they had a son, Maximiliano, in 1981, and Monzon declared happily, "This is the beginning of a new life for me."

But at around 5.30am on Valentine's Day 1988, at his house in Mar del Plata, Monzon's temper got the better of him. Muniz, 32, toppled from the second-floor balcony and died of massive head injuries. Monzon fell, too, but merely injured an arm.

He claimed it was an accident, but medical tests proved Muniz had received substantial injuries to her neck and was unconscious before she hit the ground.

On 3 July 1989, in a courtroom jammed with 1,000 onlookers, with thousands more milling outside, three judges handed down a unanimous guilty decision. He was jailed for 11 years.

It was a sentence he was destined not to complete.

Tom, great story. Thanks for posting it.

-Rick

[dagosd2000]

Rick
Did Amando ever mention if Napoles ever said anything to him about the first fight? Although Jose was my guy,that was a robbery. Rog
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Roger . . . I just got off the phone with Armando and he gave me the answer to your question.

A few years back, a fund raiser was held in L.A. honoring Mantequilla. Mando Muniz was asked to be the MC of the event. Muniz told the audience of what an honor it was to fight the great Napoles, and praised him as an all-time great Hall of Famer. After the event, as Muniz was leaving, Napoles pulled him aside in private, and told Mando how much he respected him. He also told him in Spanish, "I had nothing to do with the outcome", acknowleding that Muniz had been a victim of a raw deal.

That was pretty much it. Aside from that, these are two special Hall of Famers who have become friends and share a strong mutual respect.

Another fact that does not come out about that fight, was the fact that Muniz was fouled no less tha 14 times in the 11th round. Mando said the referee was no help, and would let Napoles do as he wished in attempting to retain his title. "I was trying to protect myself from low blows, and as a result took more punishment above the belt.

Another piece of good news for us, the regulars of this great thread, Mando is very aware of the "Classic American West Coast Boxing" thread, has viewed it, and now will attempt to "log in" and answer our questions directly, as El Gato does on occasion. Ths is something we had discussed in the past and he would like to join us.

We are together doing things that will recognize and honor the past greats, those who have been overlooked in previous years. With the help of guys on this thread, such as Dan Hanley,Tom Ray, Hap Navarro and our friend, John Bardelli, we will put straight a lot of incorrect biographical info that has found it's way into our annual banquet program, bring things up to date, and recognize "forgotten" greats. We want a HOF that recognizes the best of the past, and the present. It's our goal, and we shall succeed. This about history and recognition, not politics and BS. We would like to incorporate boxers of today, future Hall of Famers, in our annual event.


-Rick Farris

Rick
Thanks for getting back to me on that.Looking at the tape after the fight was waved off by the doctor and Berumen,Napoles lookled panicky that he was going to lose his title. Io the rescue Jose Sulieman.

[dagosd2000]

Great story on Jose Napoles, Rick, I had read it some time back, but it was great reading it again.
Thanks

Thanks, Frank.


-Rick

Rick
That was the first piece that I read of yours a while back. Great stuff.

[dagosd2000]

While googling Jose Napoles, I came across this obit for Carlos Monzon by Bob Mee:

Carlos Monzon, boxer: born San Javier, Argentina 7 August 1942; died Santa Fe, Argentina 8 January 1995.

Carlos Monzon, one of the greatest middleweight boxers in history, spent the last five years of his life serving a jail sentence for the murder of his lover, Alicia Muniz.

When he died, driving down a road near Santa Fe, in Argentina, on Sunday, Monzon was out of prison on a permitted home visit. His car left the road and he was killed, but the exact circumstances are at present unclear, just as much of his life, most notoriously the incident which led to his incarceration, was mysterious.

Monzon was a hard, violent man. After he was found guilty of killing Muniz, he said, "Me and my bad temper are the ones really responsible. Yes, my bad temper." Yet he was an extraordinary athlete, one of the leading sporting figures of his generation. In the ring he was grim, expressionless, cold, his personality understated. Outside it he was usually jovial, always the centre of attention, readily quotable. Even when he was in jail writers travelled to interview him.

Recently the film star Mickey Rourke, while on location in Argentina, met Monzon and took a crew with him to film the occasion for posterity. Rourke's reputation in the entertainment business is that of a hard man, but either he believed his own publicity, or being a tough guy in showbiz wasn't enough for him. He won some novice professional fights, and appeared to consider this a common bond with Monzon. He felt moved to swap boxing stories with the former champion - and eventually persuaded him to take part in a sparring session in the prison gym. Filmed, of course.

It was a brief, extremely nasty, and embarrassing experience for the actor. A single blow left him unconscious on his back. The film crew sold the stills.

Monzon was born one of 12 children of Indian stock in San Javier near the city of Santa Fe in 1942. As a boy he sold newspapers, shone shoes and delivered milk, but his mean streak erupted more than once. Once he was jailed for starting a riot at a football match, another time for brawling on a bus. He ran a string of whores. Eventually, police interest persuaded him to flee to Brazil.

Somehow, he emerged from this chaos as a middleweight boxer of the very highest class. He was deceptive and cunning. He appeared to do nothing exceptionally well, and yet dealt with every world-class opponent who was put in front of him until his retirement as undisputed champion in 1977. He lost only three points decisions, all before the end of 1964, and he was unbeaten in the last 82 of his 102 professional fights.

He won the middleweight title in Rome in 1970 by outpunching the Italian playboy Nino Benvenuti in 12 rounds. Monzon was fuelled by an incident at the weigh-in in which he claimed Benvenuti "touched my ass". "I looked at him and thought, `Tonight I will kill you.' When the referee stopped the fight he was correct. That night I would have killed Benvenuti."

In Latin America Monzon was an instant hero. And he stayed that way for the next 18 years. "Monzon was always Monzon," the Argentine boxing writer Carlos Irusta said. "Living in the fast lane, attending parties, driving a Mercedes, always the centre of attention in magazines and on television programmes."

Benvenuti was knocked out by Monzon in round three of a chilling rematch in Monte Carlo, and others, the best men of the generation, followed. Monzon beat Emile Griffith (twice), Denny Moyer, Jean-Claude Bouttier (twice), Tom Bogs, Bennie Briscoe, Jose Napoles, Tony Mundine, Tony Licata and Gratien Tonna.

In 1974 the World Boxing Council withdrew recognition of Monzon on a technicality and installed their own champion, Rodrigo Valdes of Colombia. Monzon retained the approval of the rival World Boxing Association - and the sporting public. In 1976 in MonteCarlo they met to settle the argument in one of the peak moments of the boxing decade. Monzon won a classic struggle on points, and did so again in a rematch in July 1977.

But he felt he was fading at the age of 34 and retired. Every afternoon he could be found in La Cuyantina bar, in Buenos Aires, playing cards with a group of old men. Night time found him in a club somewhere.

There were two women in his life before the ill-fated Muniz. He married Beatriz Garcia when they were young, but their volatile relationship ended when she shot him. He carried one of her bullets in his back for the rest of his life.

Garcia was followed by an actress, Susanna Gimenez, and then came Alicia Muniz, whom he met at an airport in 1979. Their relationship was as stormy as his others, although they had a son, Maximiliano, in 1981, and Monzon declared happily, "This is the beginning of a new life for me."

But at around 5.30am on Valentine's Day 1988, at his house in Mar del Plata, Monzon's temper got the better of him. Muniz, 32, toppled from the second-floor balcony and died of massive head injuries. Monzon fell, too, but merely injured an arm.

He claimed it was an accident, but medical tests proved Muniz had received substantial injuries to her neck and was unconscious before she hit the ground.

On 3 July 1989, in a courtroom jammed with 1,000 onlookers, with thousands more milling outside, three judges handed down a unanimous guilty decision. He was jailed for 11 years.

It was a sentence he was destined not to complete.

Tom, great story. Thanks for posting it.

-Rick

Tom,Rick
I met a women in Spain who was from Argentina. She said she knew Monzon and Alicia Muniz. After the sentencing Monzon was imprisoned,but allowed a weekend furlough to visit his son. He died in a fiery car crash. Most people believed it was a suicide. At least that was her version.

[Rick Farris]

Great story on Jose Napoles, Rick, I had read it some time back, but it was great reading it again.
Thanks

Thanks, Frank.


-Rick

Rick
That was the first piece that I read of yours a while back. Great stuff.

Thank you, Rog. You know I feel the same about your stories. When I wrote that one, I made a lot of mistakes with grammer and punctuation, it was one of my earliest attempts to write about boxing.

-Rick

[Rick Farris]

Rick
Thanks for getting back to me on that.Looking at the tape after the fight was waved off by the doctor and Berumen,Napoles lookled panicky that he was going to lose his title. Io the rescue Jose Sulieman.[/quote]
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Roger . . . I learned something yesterday from Armando. A number of years ago, Bill O'Neill, a respected boxing journalist who once wrote for Boxing Illustrated, covering the Southern Cal scene, was President of the WBHOF. Shortly after his term had ended, the next group in charge decided to induct Don King & Jose Suliemen into our Hall of Fame. O'Neill and several others were so put off by their induction they walked away from the WBHOF. I understand his feelings, both men have made major names for themselves in the sport, and both are as crooked as a dog's hind leg. How do we handle such a situation properly? Where do we draw the line. Criminals and disreputable personalities were a part of boxing long before the Marquis of Queensbury laid down the ground rules.

Men such as these are as bad for the sport as they are good. Sadly, when you hear about managers & promoters, it's generally about the bad ones. You don't hear much about those who were straight shooters, such as Hap Navarro and the Hollywood Legionaires who ran a tight ship in a difficult era, back in the days when a title fight had to be sanctioned from the powers back east.

Just for the sake of conversation, and to pick the brains of some of our boxing afficianados here, how would YOU handle considering the induction of men such as Suliemen and Don King? Nothing is black & white in the world of boxing, everything seems to fall in that grey area.

I'm interested in everybody's opinion. There is no right or wrong answer.


-Rick Farris