British Boxers performances abroad, where do you rank Danny?

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 01 Aug 2004, 13:55

Every so often a British fighter goes abroad and puts on a great performance and wins a stunning victory. Now that the Williams - Tyson result has begun to sink in, how do you rate it compared to other great victories abroad by UK fighters such as-

Jack 'Kid' Berg V Kid Chocolate
John H Stacey V Jose Napoles
LLoyd Honeyghan V Don Curry
Lennox Lewis V Mike Tyson
Nigel Benn V Maurio Galvano
Freddie Welsh V Benny Leonard

TheRiverCityHippy · Post by **TheRiverCityHippy** » 01 Aug 2004, 14:30

a few of lennox`s performances weren`t bad either.
it would have to be honeyghan / curry.
at the time don curry was rated as the best p4p fighter in the world by many followers of the noble art. i`ve heard rumours of curry`s out of the ring activities being the catalyst for this loss but lloyd still managed to do what a lot of good fighters couldn`t.

Ulysses · Post by **Ulysses** » 01 Aug 2004, 14:33

Did Freddie Welsh beat Benny Leonard?

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 01 Aug 2004, 15:06

KOJOE90 wrote:Every so often a British fighter goes abroad and puts on a great performance and wins a stunning victory. Now that the Williams - Tyson result has begun to sink in, how do you rate it compared to other great victories abroad by UK fighters such as-

Jack 'Kid' Berg V Kid Chocolate
John H Stacey V Jose Napoles
LLoyd Honeyghan V Don Curry
Lennox Lewis V Mike Tyson
Nigel Benn V Maurio Galvano
Freddie Welsh V Benny Leonard

I think Tyson is so shot that it doesn't rank with any of those.

Does anybody when reflecting upon Trevor Berbick's career mention his win over Ali as a highpoint? I see it as little different except that Danny isn't as good as Trevor Berbick, nor is Tyson fit to lace Ali's boots.

It's really not that significant.

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 01 Aug 2004, 15:09

Mind you, I do wish that General forum on Eastside was still open, they had some very special posters on there that I would have taken great amusement from over this.

Matchfixer · Post by **Matchfixer** » 01 Aug 2004, 15:09

Ulysses wrote:Did Freddie Welsh beat Benny Leonard?

More to the point what's a result like that doing in this poll anyway? Freddy Welsh died in 1927 and the 2nd result between them was 1917!!!

I'd be very surprised if anyone on this forum was born at any time remotely near then (despite what some of the photos from the other thread might suggest

)

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 01 Aug 2004, 15:09

Lloyd Honeyghan against Curry would be my undisputed choice

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 01 Aug 2004, 15:28

Alan Minter's win over Vito Antuofermo in Las Vegas was a great win for our man. Antuofermo had just held Hagler to a 15-round draw.
Another great win is Rochdale's Jock McAvoy's first-round smashing of Eddie "Babe" Risko in New York.
Dennis Andries routinely hammered the leading Americans on their own manor as well as Jeff Harding in Melbourne.
Ken Buchanan licked Ismael Laguna twice away from home. His win over Ruben Navarro in Los Angeles was awesome, too.
Stracey's win over Napoles was a real stunner. Napoles was a legend and was defending his undisputed world welterweight title in a bullring in his adopted home country of Mexico. Stracey's final barrage still sends tingles down one's spine. The Mexican referee had no choice but to stop it.
Randy Turpin, after shocking a jaded Sugar Ray Robinson in London, travelled to New York 64 days later as the fall guy. But in front of 61,437 fans at the Polo Grounds, Turpin gave Robinson another tough night and there were only four seconds left in the 10th when referee Ruby Goldstein made what the British press lambasted as a premature stoppage, especially as Robinson was so badly cut.
Laing's win over Duran is a great great win. Duran looked shot, but in fact would go on to lift two genuine world titles.
And who can forget Honeyghan-Curry.
And now, Williams-Tyson.

states · Post by **states** » 01 Aug 2004, 16:07

Goz wrote:Mind you, I do wish that General forum on Eastside was still open, they had some very special posters on there that I would have taken great amusement from over this.

It is. And the excuses are flying thick and fast. The torn ligament rubbish has been swallowed well and truly.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 01 Aug 2004, 16:17

Stacey's win over Napoles was a great one, but the Cuban was probably even older than Tyson looked the other night.
Still, I think I'd make that No #2, with No #1 going to Honeyghan, for his stunning win over Curry. As an upset, that ranks in the All Time lists, as Curry was P4P No #1 at the time.

But Danny's win deserves a top five place I think: Tyson may be past it, but he still has enough to knock out most heavyweights in one or two rounds. Hardly anyone gave the Brixton man a chance, and some of those shots he took in the first round would've levelled most fighters.

For someone who's been doubted by so many, for so long, to put it all together on the big stage like that was just sensational. Huge pressure on him, no matter what he said, and he came through like a world beater.
Great win.

neil r · Post by **neil r** » 01 Aug 2004, 17:20

I think Dannys win deserves a high place. OK tyson is shot, but we all know Dannys major self belief frailties, and despite the fact that Tysons a shell of what he once was, hes still an intimidatin ogre of a fighter. Many were predicting that Danny would crumble at the mere sight of Tyson as the first bell sounded and Tyson came out with the bombs flying. But he didnt. he done what he knew he could do and what he believed he could do. so for that reason alone this should go down as a great away performance.

After all Lummox described beating a shot, shop worn, shell of a fighter in tyson as 'cementing his legacy' and it took him 8 rounds to do it, whilst he was overwhelming favourite. Danny the underdog went out and done it in half the time.

Lummox was apparently the best heavyweight in the world. Some would say one of the best ever

In the grand scheme of things Danny is (was) a bit part player in the worlds best. Lummox bored us all with his slow, methodical, non risk taking style during his tyson fight. Danny went out there and fought the way he knew he could, fighting to his strengths and won.

Danny has fought outside the UK only four times, with limited support, the last tiem beign a once sided puonding against Sanil Sam, where as Lummox fought all his major title fights in the US , with the exceptpion of winning the WBC title against, the ever dangerous

Frank Bruno and his glorious defeat by another guy he was confident enough to fight abroad in Rahman.

Fighting in the US was a home performance for Lewis. He fought the majority of his fights there and at times enjoyed the majority of the support. any time Lewis fought a guy who may give him difficulties, he done it in the US. McCall beat him in London, the next fight between them was in the US. Danny went over there coming off a horrendous away result against Sam. with virtually no support, hardly anyone giving him a snowballs chance. but still came out on top.

This ranks far greater than anything Lewis ever done "away from home"

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 01 Aug 2004, 17:26

Good point, neil r. Honeyghan was really fighting well in the lead-up to his shock win over Curry - but Danny had looked poor. As many on here pointed out: how could Danny hope to stop Tyson when he had failed to budge Keith Long! How could he hope to cope with Tyson's power when Michael Sprott had twice wobbled him and Sinan Samil Sam had floored him three times!
It was a completely stunning performance! I was a bit in shock yesterday.

TheRiverCityHippy · Post by **TheRiverCityHippy** » 01 Aug 2004, 17:31

neil r wrote:I think Dannys win deserves a high place. OK tyson is shot, but we all know Dannys major self belief frailties, and despite the fact that Tysons a shell of what he once was, hes still an intimidatin ogre of a fighter. Many were predicting that Danny would crumble at the mere sight of Tyson as the first bell sounded and Tyson came out with the bombs flying. But he didnt. he done what he knew he could do and what he believed he could do. so for that reason alone this should go down as a great away performance.

After all Lummox described beating a shot, shop worn, shell of a fighter in tyson as 'cementing his legacy' and it took him 8 rounds to do it, whilst he was overwhelming favourite. Danny the underdog went out and done it in half the time.

Lummox was apparently the best heavyweight in the world. Some would say one of the best ever In the grand scheme of things Danny is (was) a bit part player in the worlds best. Lummox bored us all with his slow, methodical, non risk taking style during his tyson fight. Danny went out there and fought the way he knew he could, fighting to his strengths and won.

i think danny would admit himself that fight never went to plan.
he said the way tyson came out dropping bombs all over the place he had no choice but to shelve the gameplan and fight fire with fire.
i dont think jim mcdonnell said "get out there and knock his fornicating head off "
by the way lummox was the best heavyweight in the world, he beat everyone he had to and i`ve a sneaking feeling if he was scottish they`d be statues, ceremonial stones and tartans named after him by now.

neil r · Post by **neil r** » 01 Aug 2004, 17:35

headhunter wrote:
neil r wrote:I think Dannys win deserves a high place. OK tyson is shot, but we all know Dannys major self belief frailties, and despite the fact that Tysons a shell of what he once was, hes still an intimidatin ogre of a fighter. Many were predicting that Danny would crumble at the mere sight of Tyson as the first bell sounded and Tyson came out with the bombs flying. But he didnt. he done what he knew he could do and what he believed he could do. so for that reason alone this should go down as a great away performance.

After all Lummox described beating a shot, shop worn, shell of a fighter in tyson as 'cementing his legacy' and it took him 8 rounds to do it, whilst he was overwhelming favourite. Danny the underdog went out and done it in half the time.

Lummox was apparently the best heavyweight in the world. Some would say one of the best ever In the grand scheme of things Danny is (was) a bit part player in the worlds best. Lummox bored us all with his slow, methodical, non risk taking style during his tyson fight. Danny went out there and fought the way he knew he could, fighting to his strengths and won.
i think danny would admit himself that fight never went to plan.
he said the way tyson came out dropping bombs all over the place he had no choice but to shelve the gameplan and fight fire with fire.
i dont think jim mcdonnell said "get out there and knock his fornicating head off "
by the way lummox was the best heavyweight in the world, he beat everyone he had to and i`ve a sneaking feeling if he was scottish they`d be statues, ceremonial stones and tartans named after him by now.

i have a sneaking feeling if he was english there would be statues, street parties for him and tea shops named after him old boy

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 01 Aug 2004, 17:57

Matchfixer wrote:
Ulysses wrote:Did Freddie Welsh beat Benny Leonard?
More to the point what's a result like that doing in this poll anyway? Freddy Welsh died in 1927 and the 2nd result between them was 1917!!!

I'd be very surprised if anyone on this forum was born at any time remotely near then (despite what some of the photos from the other thread might suggest )

As far as I know, Freddie Welsh never beat the Ghetto Wizard.

"What's a result like this doing in this poll anyway?" I assume you mean because it is before your time. With a question like the one posed (great British victories abroad), the fact you didn't see the fight doesn't have that much to do with it, in my opinion.

I take it nobody here saw Waterloo but will accept it was a very significant military victory.

BBN will knock up a poll on this soon...I put together a list earlier today and almost all have been mentioned.

A particular favourite of mine is Matt Wells who travelled all the way to Australia in 1914 to win the world welterweight title. Say what you like about how valid it was re the belt, competition, etc - definitely up there with good wins abroad.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 01 Aug 2004, 18:14

neil r wrote:I think Dannys win deserves a high place. OK tyson is shot, but we all know Dannys major self belief frailties, and despite the fact that Tysons a shell of what he once was, hes still an intimidatin ogre of a fighter. Many were predicting that Danny would crumble at the mere sight of Tyson as the first bell sounded and Tyson came out with the bombs flying. But he didnt. he done what he knew he could do and what he believed he could do. so for that reason alone this should go down as a great away performance.

After all Lummox described beating a shot, shop worn, shell of a fighter in tyson as 'cementing his legacy' and it took him 8 rounds to do it, whilst he was overwhelming favourite. Danny the underdog went out and done it in half the time.

Lummox was apparently the best heavyweight in the world. Some would say one of the best ever In the grand scheme of things Danny is (was) a bit part player in the worlds best. Lummox bored us all with his slow, methodical, non risk taking style during his tyson fight. Danny went out there and fought the way he knew he could, fighting to his strengths and won.

Danny has fought outside the UK only four times, with limited support, the last tiem beign a once sided puonding against Sanil Sam, where as Lummox fought all his major title fights in the US , with the exceptpion of winning the WBC title against, the ever dangerous Frank Bruno and his glorious defeat by another guy he was confident enough to fight abroad in Rahman.

Fighting in the US was a home performance for Lewis. He fought the majority of his fights there and at times enjoyed the majority of the support. any time Lewis fought a guy who may give him difficulties, he done it in the US. McCall beat him in London, the next fight between them was in the US. Danny went over there coming off a horrendous away result against Sam. with virtually no support, hardly anyone giving him a snowballs chance. but still came out on top.

This ranks far greater than anything Lewis ever done "away from home"

What a bitter, disrespectful, sad post. :(

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 01 Aug 2004, 18:15

neil r wrote:I think Dannys win deserves a high place. OK tyson is shot, but we all know Dannys major self belief frailties, and despite the fact that Tysons a shell of what he once was, hes still an intimidatin ogre of a fighter. Many were predicting that Danny would crumble at the mere sight of Tyson as the first bell sounded and Tyson came out with the bombs flying. But he didnt. he done what he knew he could do and what he believed he could do. so for that reason alone this should go down as a great away performance.

After all Lummox described beating a shot, shop worn, shell of a fighter in tyson as 'cementing his legacy' and it took him 8 rounds to do it, whilst he was overwhelming favourite. Danny the underdog went out and done it in half the time.

Lummox was apparently the best heavyweight in the world. Some would say one of the best ever In the grand scheme of things Danny is (was) a bit part player in the worlds best. Lummox bored us all with his slow, methodical, non risk taking style during his tyson fight. Danny went out there and fought the way he knew he could, fighting to his strengths and won.

Danny has fought outside the UK only four times, with limited support, the last tiem beign a once sided puonding against Sanil Sam, where as Lummox fought all his major title fights in the US , with the exceptpion of winning the WBC title against, the ever dangerous Frank Bruno and his glorious defeat by another guy he was confident enough to fight abroad in Rahman.

Fighting in the US was a home performance for Lewis. He fought the majority of his fights there and at times enjoyed the majority of the support. any time Lewis fought a guy who may give him difficulties, he done it in the US. McCall beat him in London, the next fight between them was in the US. Danny went over there coming off a horrendous away result against Sam. with virtually no support, hardly anyone giving him a snowballs chance. but still came out on top.

This ranks far greater than anything Lewis ever done "away from home"

This post is such a biased picece of crap it doesn't warrant a reply. But it got one. Congrats....

I truly marvel at how one can look at the bare-faced facts and reach such an imperceptive conclusion.

neil r · Post by **neil r** » 01 Aug 2004, 18:26

its all about opinions gents. one of the questions was how this rates with lewis's win over tyson. this is how i think it rates. maybe you dont agree but lets not worry too much eh?

to be honest Goz its evident if i say shit you say suger. it would appear you still have some little bee in your bonnet that you have taken the trouble to sit on and fester for over four years. what it is i dont know and to be frank, couldnt care less.

so let rip with your lewis is god mentality. i think ill manage to rise above it. im willing to have a serious debate about things boxing, if you can. if not lets just call a halt now before things get out of hand

you say you "truly marvel at how one can look at the bare-faced facts and reach such an imperceptive conclusion" but what "facts" do you offer to support you argument and what "facts" have i got wrong? ivenever denied or hidden the fact that i cant stand lewis. never have and never will. but thats my opinion as valid as your own.

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 01 Aug 2004, 18:39

That's the thing... I don't really have a 'Lewis is god' mentality, I just see things as I see them.

Your post is such a bitter attack on one of the best 10 (20 if you like) Heavyweights of all time that I feel it is the likes of you who can't sleep at night for the fear of breaking out in cold sweats screaming 'Lennox has stolen my babies!!' or some such irrantional dementia.

Say what you like, Lewis's record speaks for itself, the rest is mere conjecture....

neil r · Post by **neil r** » 01 Aug 2004, 18:42

Goz wrote:That's the thing... I don't really have a 'Lewis is god' mentality, I just see things as I see them.

Your post is such a bitter attack on one of the best 10 (20 if you like) Heavyweights of all time that I feel it is the likes of you who can't sleep at night for the fear of breaking out in cold sweats screaming 'Lennox has stolen my babies!!' or some such irrantional dementia.

Say what you like, Lewis's record speaks for itself, the rest is mere conjecture....

....."one of the best 10 (20 if you like) Heavyweights of all time..." that is mere conjecture

CerberuS · Post by **CerberuS** » 01 Aug 2004, 18:42

what about Hamed vs Kelly. That is now regarded as a somewhat modern great featherweight fight. Naz's first fight in the states at MSG.

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 01 Aug 2004, 18:48

neil r wrote:
Goz wrote:That's the thing... I don't really have a 'Lewis is god' mentality, I just see things as I see them.

Your post is such a bitter attack on one of the best 10 (20 if you like) Heavyweights of all time that I feel it is the likes of you who can't sleep at night for the fear of breaking out in cold sweats screaming 'Lennox has stolen my babies!!' or some such irrantional dementia.

Say what you like, Lewis's record speaks for itself, the rest is mere conjecture....
....."one of the best 10 (20 if you like) Heavyweights of all time..." that is mere conjecture

Bollox

Hamed-Kelly was a good one too, the build up and the fight itself was superb.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 01 Aug 2004, 18:52

In 1999 Nigel Rafferty went to Germany and gave Rudiger May hell for eight rounds...ok so he didn't win but i thought i'd jump in and mention this sterling effort of one of our finest abroad before someone else did

Matchfixer · Post by **Matchfixer** » 01 Aug 2004, 19:00

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:
Matchfixer wrote:
Ulysses wrote:Did Freddie Welsh beat Benny Leonard?
More to the point what's a result like that doing in this poll anyway? Freddy Welsh died in 1927 and the 2nd result between them was 1917!!!

I'd be very surprised if anyone on this forum was born at any time remotely near then
"What's a result like this doing in this poll anyway?" I assume you mean because it is before your time. With a question like the one posed (great British victories abroad), the fact you didn't see the fight doesn't have that much to do with it, in my opinion.

I take it nobody here saw Waterloo but will accept it was a very significant military victory.

A particular favourite of mine is Matt Wells who travelled all the way to Australia in 1914 to win the world welterweight title. Say what you like about how valid it was re the belt, competition, etc - definitely up there with good wins abroad.

OK I agree with your analogy to Waterloo. Point taken.

It's just that I would be very surprised if anyone has seen video footage/film of these fights and if they have can they have enough knowledge of the period in question to get an accurate perspective on how great the achievement was? (Not that I'm saying it is not a great achievement - just hard to tell)

For example, I have seen 3 Ali fights and although I could gain access to more I don't think I could ever truly appreciate his greatness as I grew up after he had finished boxing.

neil r · Post by **neil r** » 01 Aug 2004, 19:01

steve689 wrote:In 1999 Nigel Rafferty went to Germany and gave Rudiger May hell for eight rounds...ok so he didn't win but i thought i'd jump in and mention this sterling effort of one of our finest abroad before someone else did

ahhh nigel rafferty a man with the same surname as myself. this however used to cause a great deal of problems for our little potato friend on the old "Seconds Out" forum days.

Despite having the same name there as i have here (neil r), forehead and his fairies would constanly insist i was nigel rafferty, constantly critisisng 'my' shortcomings as a fighter!!. there was no amount of pointing out the differences between "nigel" and "neil" which could persuade him other wise!!

British Boxers performances abroad, where do you rank Danny?

British Boxers performances abroad, where do you rank Danny?

Re: British Boxers performances abroad, where do you rank Da