All-Time Best Non-Champions

[Ambling Alp]

There have been some really good fighters who weren't champions. Sometimes they didn't get title shot, or they fought in a really tough era for their weight class. A lot of close calls when rating these guys against each other.
A minimum qualification to even make Honorable Mention, is that a fighter would have been at least as good as an average champion. I'm sure there were notables left out.

1. Sam Langford
2. Packy McFarland
3. Jimmy Bivins
4. Charley Burley
5. Holman Williams
6. Young Stribling
7. Lloyd Marshall
8. Harry Wills
9. Joe Jeannette
10. Sam McVey
11. Eddie Booker
12. Mike Gibbons
13. Tommy Gibbons
14. Billy Petrolle
15. Billy Graham
16. Peter Jackson
17. Jack Blackburn
18. Dave Holly
19. Eduardo Lausse
20. Spider Webb

Honorable Mention:
George Benton,Benny Briscoe,Joe Choynski,Al "Bummy" Davis,Howard Davis, Jock McAvoy,Mauro Mina,Memphis Pal Moore,Alan Rudkin.

Look forward to some words of wisdom from my esteemed colleagues.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

Elmer Ray
Lee Q Murray
Lem Franklin
Willie Joyce
George Godfrey
Cleveland Williams
Eddie Machen
Zora Folley
Clarence Henry
Donovan Razor Ruddock
David Tua
Ike Ibeubuchi

- No way Stribling should be over those guys. All of the above men(outside of lightweight joyce), knockout stribling.

[Seamus]

Lew Tendler
Frankie Burns
Del Flanagan

[Expug]

Some great names here.
Nice list Alp.

Id also throw in
"Gypsy Joe" Harris
Ace Hudkins
Charley White
Artie Levine

White and Levine were wicked punchers.
Maybe not really all time greats but very dangerous.

[alexpaterson]

Henry Cooper and Jerry Quarry come to mind

[JC]

Jem Driscoll

[raylawpc]

From the old time heavyweights, I would hasten to add Tom Sharkey and the original George Godfrey.

If only they'd have had a light-heavyweight division in the 1890s, Joe Choynski would have undoubtedly been a champ.

[Seamus]

Don't mean to sound impolite, but some of these heavyweight picks are absurd.

[raylawpc]

How so, Seamus?

[Seamus]

Not you Ray. Sharkey and Choynski are HOF'ers to begin with.

[Flump]

Herol Graham
Yaqui Lopez (though he certainly had the opportunities)
Jimmy Young

[raylawpc]

Not you Ray. Sharkey and Choynski are HOF'ers to begin with.

I didn't think you were necessarily referring to me. I was just curious which picks you thought were absurd.

[Seamus]

Names like Zora Folley, Lee Q Murray, Cleveland Williams, David Tua, Lem Franklin, Henry Cooper and others hardly fit the description of best fighters to never win a title.

[Ambling Alp]

Elmer Ray
Lee Q Murray
Lem Franklin
Willie Joyce
George Godfrey
Cleveland Williams
Eddie Machen
Zora Folley
Clarence Henry
Donovan Razor Ruddock
David Tua
Ike Ibeubuchi

- No way Stribling should be over those guys. All of the above men(outside of lightweight joyce), knockout stribling.

I was rating Stribling as a light heavyweight. He was as good as atleast half of the light heavyweight champions. That is why I rated him and not the heavyweight legends that you mentioned.

[Ambling Alp]

Don't mean to sound impolite, but some of these heavyweight picks are absurd.

Some people are obsessed with heavyweights. The criteria is that they would have had to as good as an average champion; which of course many of the heavyweights mentioned certainly weren't.

I agree with you and raylaw about Choynski; he would have been a decent light heavyweight champion in most eras.

[Adamj1987]

sam langford best boxer to never win a title in any weight division

[My2Sense]

I was rating Stribling as a light heavyweight. He was as good as atleast half of the light heavyweight champions.

Stribling got his shot at the title and choked badly though, and against a champion not really considered an ATG at the weight. I question putting him over guys like Lloyd Marshall or Eddie Booker, who didn't become champions not necessarily because they weren't good enough, but because circumstances prevented them from fighting for the title in the first place.

[bollox]

A couple of locals in Dave Sands and Les Darcy deserve a mention here

[Seamus]

Les Darcy held a disputed World title, which he defended against rather solid opposition, unlike Al McCoy's joke of a title.

[Ambling Alp]

I was rating Stribling as a light heavyweight. He was as good as atleast half of the light heavyweight champions.

Stribling got his shot at the title and choked badly though, and against a champion not really considered an ATG at the weight. I question putting him over guys like Lloyd Marshall or Eddie Booker, who didn't become champions not necessarily because they weren't good enough, but because circumstances prevented them from fighting for the title in the first place.

I certainly agree that Marshall and Booker should have got a title shot. They each were as good as many champions in their weight class. I have no problem rating either ahead of Stribling. It's pretty close. Actually after McFarland, you have several guys who are very close.

Stribling did lose to Berlanbach, who isn't a legend, but is a pretty respectable light heavyweight champion. Stribling beat Tommy Loughran who of course was a great light heavyweight. Stribling also beat Rosenbloom, and won a newspaper decision over Mike McTigue, who was the champion at the time.
Stribling had so many fights that you can find a few bad results. However, overall, he had a very impressive career.

[Idisagree]

How about Louis Kid Cocoa?
If Holman Williams and Eddie Booker are there, why not him?
He holds wins against both Holman Williams and Eddie Booker.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

There have been some really good fighters who weren't champions. .

- Many names mentioned held titles. Langford is now credited with a share of the world heavy title as well as the black heavy title, English middleweight title, and Mexican heavyweight title.

Peter Jackson held a belt every bit as prestigious as John L. And on, and on.

Maybe they didn't hold your politically correct belt me thinks.

[Collins2000]

There have been some really good fighters who weren't champions. .

- Many names mentioned held titles. Langford is now credited with a share of the world heavy title as well as the black heavy title, English middleweight title, and Mexican heavyweight title.

Peter Jackson held a belt every bit as prestigious as John L. And on, and on.

Hilarious stuff, numpty.

[HomicideHenry]

As far as more modern day HW's are concerned, I always hear from people that Jerry Quarry was the best of the 1970's to never have been world champ. I dont quite agree with this. In the 1960's and 1970's George Chuvalo and Oscar Bonavena had strong arguments to this claim, imo. Bonavena was right up there, and more deserving than Quarry. But thats just me.

[Flump]

As far as more modern day HW's are concerned, I always hear from people that Jerry Quarry was the best of the 1970's to never have been world champ. I dont quite agree with this. In the 1960's and 1970's George Chuvalo and Oscar Bonavena had strong arguments to this claim, imo. Bonavena was right up there, and more deserving than Quarry. But thats just me.

Bonavena and Chuvalo didn't have the wins on their record that Quarry did, though Chuvalo did beat Quarry I know. IMHO they rate lower than Quarry, but I like all three, I'd like to see Bonavena-Chuvalo but I've never heard of the film of that fight being in circulation, does one exist?