Tyson, torn ligaments?

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 02 Aug 2004, 07:09

Bloody hell it's not a computer game. Just because Danny gets shaken up in the first round it doesn't mean it should happen repeatedly throughout the fight. Tyson kept trying but wasn't quite able to land the same kind of punches again. I attribute that to Danny's confidence rising and rising as the fight developed.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 02 Aug 2004, 07:27

Exactly, the same thing has happened in countless fights.

Again I ask the question, when in the 1st round does Tyson grimace in pain. Tyson was thumping the living daylights out of Danny for pretty much the whole round.

Priff · Post by **Priff** » 02 Aug 2004, 07:37

jamesmcdonnell wrote:And at what point in the 1st round did Tyson point at his knee and grimace, I never saw that happen. The only time Tyson motioned downward and grimaced was in the third round. So this story is shot full of holes.

Well, it's on wednesday, 8:30, SS2.
I imagine we'll all be videoing, (don't know why I didn't record it on the weekend to be honest). I can't remember when it happened.

Question for you.
After watching the first round, how did you see the fight finishing?
If you didn't predict DW KO4 after the 1st round, what do you think made the difference?

I just can't understand how Danny didn't go down. I recall he didn't exactly get accustomed to Sam's power after tasting it about 4 times. Even Sprott game him trouble. If Tyson wasn't injured, he must only have 1 good round left in him.

Danny ate hooks for 3 rounds. Not exactly the ideal game plan. In fact, anybody who predicted a Danny win, based the win on the theory that Danny would elude Tyson for 3 rounds, keeping at bay with the Jab and boxing on the outside. Then when Tyson tired after 3, come in for the Kill.

Danny won the fight with the opposite gameplan that anyone would have thought of (and the opposite of his corner's gameplan). So, how did it work?

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 02 Aug 2004, 07:38

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Exactly, the same thing has happened in countless fights.

Again I ask the question, when in the 1st round does Tyson grimace in pain. Tyson was thumping the living daylights out of Danny for pretty much the whole round.

James, Tyson definately does grimace and point to his knee towards the end of the 1st round.... clearly something happened.

However he was still dropping bombs in round 2 and 3 so not sure how much it affected him.....

Unfortunate if it did hinder him but thats boxing, Danny pulled through with one arm against Potter....

Priff · Post by **Priff** » 02 Aug 2004, 07:39

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Exactly, the same thing has happened in countless fights.

Not countless fights with Danny williams in them though.
The form guide we do have would have strongly suggested the opposite.
He's no Nigel Benn is he?

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 02 Aug 2004, 07:42

for the record in many fights I have seen a fighters chin can appear to get better as the fight goes on, as they warm up and confidence rises.

Remember Pacman v Marquez earlier in the year.
Vanzie v Murray

there are many more examples but i am too busy to think of them at the moment

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 02 Aug 2004, 07:52

I think it's fair to say that had the zombie-like Danny Williams who turned up to face Samil Sam been in the opposite corner to Mike Tyson at the weekend he would have been slaughtered.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 02 Aug 2004, 08:46

Yes I think Mike damaged his knee in the first, he points to it and Jim Watt noticed it too.

Now whether it warrants a wheel chair and bandage, I have no idea. But Tyson and co are in a desperate position now - he HAS to carry on with all those debts he has, so an injury could be the excuse they need for a big return - let's hope it's in London eh?

Makes sense for Danny - anyone else mentioned how he got ripped off on his purse? That dodgy promoter had to get some cash from the Box Office to pay Danny, and it was only around £40K I think....

He'll get well paid for a rematch I think.

Fantastic to see Williams pull off the win of a lifetime, but I did feel sorry for old Mike slumped on the canvas there, always sad to see a great champ humbled like that.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/art ... ce=Evening

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 02 Aug 2004, 09:06

MightyWarrior wrote:Yes I think Mike damaged his knee in the first, he points to it and Jim Watt noticed it too.

Now whether it warrants a wheel chair and bandage, I have no idea. But Tyson and co are in a desperate position now - he HAS to carry on with all those debts he has, so an injury could be the excuse they need for a big return - let's hope it's in London eh?

Makes sense for Danny - anyone else mentioned how he got ripped off on his purse? That dodgy promoter had to get some cash from the Box Office to pay Danny, and it was only around £40K I think....

He'll get well paid for a rematch I think.

Fantastic to see Williams pull off the win of a lifetime, but I did feel sorry for old Mike slumped on the canvas there, always sad to see a great champ humbled like that.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/art ... ce=Evening

Just watched the tape again.

Tyson hurt his knee in the first.

Its genuine.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 02 Aug 2004, 09:22

Priff wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Exactly, the same thing has happened in countless fights.
Not countless fights with Danny williams in them though.
The form guide we do have would have strongly suggested the opposite.
He's no Nigel Benn is he?

You're just determined to give Williams no credit, and blame it on Tyson's 'knee injury' which is a blatant load of bollocks. Strange that you cannot tell me when in the first round he begins grimacing. There's was no sign of Tyson mentioning it in his corner, no signs of him having trouble moving around in the 2nd round.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 02 Aug 2004, 09:23

knockout artist wrote:
MightyWarrior wrote:Yes I think Mike damaged his knee in the first, he points to it and Jim Watt noticed it too.

Now whether it warrants a wheel chair and bandage, I have no idea. But Tyson and co are in a desperate position now - he HAS to carry on with all those debts he has, so an injury could be the excuse they need for a big return - let's hope it's in London eh?

Makes sense for Danny - anyone else mentioned how he got ripped off on his purse? That dodgy promoter had to get some cash from the Box Office to pay Danny, and it was only around £40K I think....

He'll get well paid for a rematch I think.

Fantastic to see Williams pull off the win of a lifetime, but I did feel sorry for old Mike slumped on the canvas there, always sad to see a great champ humbled like that.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/art ... ce=Evening
Just watched the tape again.

Tyson hurt his knee in the first.

Its genuine.

Does he actually point to the injury, I was very skeptical, but if you've seen it on tape, and it seems clear, the fair enough. However, it didn't really seem to hamper him much, he was certainly whaling away with big shots throughout the second round.

J · Post by J » 02 Aug 2004, 09:24

Great performance by Danny. injury or no injury. end of really.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 02 Aug 2004, 09:43

J wrote:Great performance by Danny. injury or no injury. end of really.

Yes, Danny's weight meant he could push Tyson around. And, at 38, injuries happen.
The preparation paid off handsomely for our man.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 02 Aug 2004, 09:49

Yep, I figured he must be planning on outmuscling Tyson on the inside, I couldn't see any way he wouldn't have prepared

He looked in good nick too, wasn't blowing hard despite the frantic pace of the first 3 rounds. Tyson on the other hand was breathing heavily at the end of the 2nd, but I think that was anxiety, he was susprised that the 'fall guy' was still standing after two rounds of being hammered.

I think he may have hurt the ligament a little, but injuries are part of the sport, and it didn't seem to hamper him much in the 2nd or early in the 3rd round. It wasn't until he got cut that he really started to look troubled.

I need to get the fight on tape and see it again though.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 02 Aug 2004, 09:56

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yep, I figured he must be planning on outmuscling Tyson on the inside, I couldn't see any way he wouldn't have prepared

He looked in good nick too, wasn't blowing hard despite the frantic pace of the first 3 rounds. Tyson on the other hand was breathing heavily at the end of the 2nd, but I think that was anxiety, he was susprised that the 'fall guy' was still standing after two rounds of being hammered.

I think he may have hurt the ligament a little, but injuries are part of the sport, and it didn't seem to hamper him much in the 2nd or early in the 3rd round. It wasn't until he got cut that he really started to look troubled.

I need to get the fight on tape and see it again though.

Seems strange that Tyson would actually show his opponent he was injured. Strange and totally unprofessional.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 02 Aug 2004, 09:58

Maybe he wanted a way out. He didn't look too into it after he was cut in the 3rd, I thought he was looking for the ref to disqualify Williams at one point.

Priff · Post by **Priff** » 02 Aug 2004, 09:59

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Priff wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Exactly, the same thing has happened in countless fights.
Not countless fights with Danny williams in them though.
The form guide we do have would have strongly suggested the opposite.
He's no Nigel Benn is he?
You're just determined to give Williams no credit, and blame it on Tyson's 'knee injury' which is a blatant load of bollocks. Strange that you cannot tell me when in the first round he begins grimacing. There's was no sign of Tyson mentioning it in his corner, no signs of him having trouble moving around in the 2nd round.

I am certainly not determined to give Danny no credit. I am a frustrated DW fan, have supported him in every bout except maybe this one as my love of Iron Mike took over.

I'll give him the credit he deserves.
I won't pretend his tatics were genius, or that I can explain how his tactics worked, because I can't. I think he played to his own weaknesses. I know he hammered Tyson in 4, but that's how I feel. Perhaps it turns out he doesn't have any weaknesses, I don't know.

I'm just discussing the parts of the fight I don't have an explaination for. We also clearly have different recollections of the fight. Doesn't mean I'm a Danny Hater.

No one deserves a break more then Danny. He was like a puppy with a new toy in the post fight interviews and I was totally happy for him. He is our undisputed number 1 heavyweight in terms of proven skill, gut, heart and calf size.

He should leave the domestic scene well behind, not even mention "AFarce". Just go for a world title off Byrd/Brester, win that, then go for a big money fight against Klit.

If he doesn't make a life changing amount of money, I'll be as sick as a parrot.

adamiw · Post by **adamiw** » 02 Aug 2004, 10:00

anyone know what ligament it is? not that it means a lot to me, the only one i know is the cruciate (bad spelling) knee ligament which many footballers suffer. I'd laugh if it's that one, that would be complete BS.

He definately hurt his knee. He may of just twisted it a little, it was nothing too serious. He was walking fine, and he was still throwing some vicious shots.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 02 Aug 2004, 10:06

Ligaments join bones together If I remember rightly, tendons join muscles to bones.

Here's a description of what a medial meniscus injury is, which is what they are claiming is wrong I think.

http://www.sportsinjuryclinic.net/cyber ... niscus.htm

Sorry Priff, being a bit harsh, I just get sick of the excuses being trotted out when fighter's lose. I also think it is deeply suspicious that Finkel didn't allow Tyson to talk to the press, it gave them plenty of time to get their story straight and find an escape route from the defeat.

Priff · Post by **Priff** » 02 Aug 2004, 10:07

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yep, I figured he must be planning on outmuscling Tyson on the inside.

It'll be interesting to find out over the next fews weeks what the plan was.
Personally, I thought the inside is pretty much the worst place you want to be with Tyson. Rd 1 proved me right, the rest of the rounds proved me wrong.

So much of the Lewis blue-print for beating Tyson. Danny did his own way. Damn, he was good on the inside.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 02 Aug 2004, 10:22

Williams had the strength to tie Tyson up. When he is up really close, Tyson is useless at getting his hands free. He tends to throw his shots at medium range, lunging in, but once he's right on top of someone he needs to find the space to get leverage. Being up close enabled Danny to smother some of Tyson's power.

Danny admitted the gameplan went out the window. His jab wasn't fast enough to contain Tyson, Mike kept slipping the jab and twatting him.

What surprised me was that Danny was taking so many risks, those big wild swings of his were tempting fate, I thought it was a matter of time before he dipped into one of Mike's left hooks and went bye-bye.

Priff · Post by **Priff** » 02 Aug 2004, 10:23

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I also think it is deeply suspicious that Finkel didn't allow Tyson to talk to the press, it gave them plenty of time to get their story straight and find an escape route from the defeat.

Well, he's a Boxing Politician.
He neither knows nor cares (at this stage) how significant the injury was to the outcome. He's applying the spin to get the result he and his fighter need.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 02 Aug 2004, 10:49

jamesmcdonnell wrote: Does he actually point to the injury, I was very skeptical, but if you've seen it on tape, and it seems clear, the fair enough. However, it didn't really seem to hamper him much, he was certainly whaling away with big shots throughout the second round.

To be honest I thought he was complaining of a low blow in the 1st, as his back is to camera. But then I heard Watt say Tyson was pointing to his knee, so I'm taking his word for it really ( bearing in mind Jim was very pro-Williams throughout )

As for Mike showing out, it was probably a reflex action to a large amount of pain.

Saying that, the referee worked the fight like Mike was his favorite son, and Danny his red headed step child.