British Top 30 P4P May 2009

[Dioufy]

I agree with Finch, Haye has done more.

[Horse]

Why is Dunne behind Woods and Witter? Dunne holds half of a world championship in the deepest division in boxing, while neither of them have done much of note lately. Also, why is Enzo Maccarinelli ahead of Rogan and Arthur? The man should barely make the top 30, never mind the top 15.
One more thing. Drop Calzaghe. He's retired. If he makes a comeback, rank him #1 again, but for now, leave him out.

Any response Horse?

Like I said to Coco, I try to respond to posts in chronological order. I have now responded to that post.

[hitman09]

Why is Dunne behind Woods and Witter? Dunne holds half of a world championship in the deepest division in boxing, while neither of them have done much of note lately. Also, why is Enzo Maccarinelli ahead of Rogan and Arthur? The man should barely make the top 30, never mind the top 15.
One more thing. Drop Calzaghe. He's retired. If he makes a comeback, rank him #1 again, but for now, leave him out.

Any response Horse?

Like I said to Coco, I try to respond to posts in chronological order. I have now responded to that post.

OK.

[hitman09]

One more thing. Drop Calzaghe. He's retired. If he makes a comeback, rank him #1 again, but for now, leave him out.

What happens if I take him out? There will just be another decent domestic fighter that enters at the bottom of the rankings to replace him. If he doesn't fight for a significant period of time then I will take him out.

What do you consider a significant period of time?

[Horse]

1. (1.) Joe Calzaghe (fair enough - at least for a couple more months)
2. (2.) Ricky Hatton (fair enough)
3. (4.) Carl Froch (swap with Haye)
4. (3.) David Haye (swap with Froch)
5. (5.) Clinton Woods (Drop like a stone)
6. (6.) Junior Witter (Drop like a stone)
7. (7.) Bernard Dunne (Irish) (Up following drops)

By drops like a stone, do you mean that the fighter would drop a long way down the list? Or that you would just drop them a few places? I really don't think that either Woods or Witter should be outside anyone's top 10.

12. (12.) Enzo Maccarinelli (Drop like a stone)
20. (21.) Matthew Macklin (Above Rogan or Enzo)

What has Macklin done to be rated so highly? He looked good against Elcock, but he really hasn't proven himself against enough top domestic fighters yet.

21. (RE.) Martin Lindsay (Irish) (Above Cook)
23. (22.) Gavin Rees (Drop like a stone)
25. (25.) Paul McCloskey (Irish) (Above Rogan)

Lindsay's wins over Mathews and Appleby are very good, but I don't think he deserves to ranked above a former WBO and European champion who has only just lost his WBO belt, or to be ranked so close to the top 10 which would suggest he was top European/World class. He just hasn't fought enough good fighters to justify that.

No Andy Lee, No Stepthen Haughian, No Andrew Murray, No Patrick Hyland!!

I was planning to enter Lee onto the list if he beat Vera, but he lost and he hasn't done very much since to earn a place on the list. Haughian hasn't done anywhere near enough to earn a place, and neither has Hyland. If Murray can make some good defences of his EU title then maybe he can enter soon, but certainly not yet.

[Horse]

Well that's the whole point of the pound for pound concept. But you don't go, "if Naseem Hamed came back at featherweight, where would he be? 14th, OK, I'll rank him now, even though he's retired and will probably never fight again."

Well, I don't think Hamed would be ranked at 14th if he came back, he would likely be rubbish (at least at first). I think it is okay to take into account how good a fighter is likely to be if they came back from retirement. Obviously, it is not the only consideration, but I think it is worth thinking about.

[Horse]

In my eyes if a fighter announces his retirement then he should be scrapped from all P4P lists until he successfully makes a comeback.
Like Mayweather - he won't re-enter my P4P global list until he actually fights again.
I think this should be adopted to your list, Horse.
But great list.

I respect your policy for the retirement of fighters in P4P lists. But, I never took Mayweather out of my list and now he is back, and I don't see what would have been gained by taking him out and pretending he was not likely to make a comeback.

I don't think a fighter announcing their retirement is enough to remove them from all P4P lists. They are still current fighters and to pretend they are suddenly fighters of the past seems strange to me. Too many fighters change their mind and return for me to take these fighters at their word.

[Asterix]

In my eyes if a fighter announces his retirement then he should be scrapped from all P4P lists until he successfully makes a comeback.
Like Mayweather - he won't re-enter my P4P global list until he actually fights again.
I think this should be adopted to your list, Horse.
But great list.

I respect your policy for the retirement of fighters in P4P lists. But, I never took Mayweather out of my list and now he is back, and I don't see what would have been gained by taking him out and pretending he was not likely to make a comeback.

I don't think a fighter announcing their retirement is enough to remove them from all P4P lists. They are still current fighters and to pretend they are suddenly fighters of the past seems strange to me. Too many fighters change their mind and return for me to take these fighters at their word.

I think it's far better to take their word for it rather than predict the future.

[Horse]

3. (4.) Carl Froch
4. (3.) David Haye

What the F&&K ???

Haye has unified Cruiserweight division, moved up and beat a top ten fighter. Even if Haye loses to Wlad i'd have him safely above Froch.

What top ten fighter did Haye beat? Barrett? Barrett was not a top 10 ranked fighter, top 30 maybe, but not top 10. I think to have Haye ahead of Froch even after a Wladimir defeat would be very biased towards Haye.

Froch has ONE world title fight and beats a guy who's hardly world class, then luckily beats a blown up middleweight after being outclassed for the first 35 minutes and 46 seconds !

Froch was not outclassed for the first 35 mins 46 secs. Froch was competetive with Taylor throughout the fight and was very close on the consensus scorecard after 11 rounds.

[Horse]

I agree with Finch, Haye has done more.

Haye has done more, but Froch has done more recently. In the last 12 months Haye has only beaten Barrett. Froch's win over Taylor is better than any single win that Haye has in my opinion, and I think he should be rewarded for that ranking wise.

[Finch]

3. (4.) Carl Froch
4. (3.) David Haye

What the F&&K ???

Haye has unified Cruiserweight division, moved up and beat a top ten fighter. Even if Haye loses to Wlad i'd have him safely above Froch.

What top ten fighter did Haye beat? Barrett? Barrett was not a top 10 ranked fighter, top 30 maybe, but not top 10. I think to have Haye ahead of Froch even after a Wladimir defeat would be very biased towards Haye.

Froch has ONE world title fight and beats a guy who's hardly world class, then luckily beats a blown up middleweight after being outclassed for the first 35 minutes and 46 seconds !

Froch was not outclassed for the first 35 mins 46 secs. Froch was competetive with Taylor throughout the fight and was very close on the consensus scorecard after 11 rounds.

You haven't given any justifiable reason for Froch to stay ahead of Haye. Frocvh was four rounds down going into the last round on two scorecards, wasn't really that close or competative.

If we're talking in the last year Hatton shouldn't be so high. And what has Enzo Mac done (much as i like him)

These rankings are a joke.

[Flav1]

I always read this thread, I'm not sure why, because it always same.

[forcefraser]

3. (4.) Carl Froch
4. (3.) David Haye

What the F&&K ???

Haye has unified Cruiserweight division, moved up and beat a top ten fighter. Even if Haye loses to Wlad i'd have him safely above Froch.

What top ten fighter did Haye beat? Barrett? Barrett was not a top 10 ranked fighter, top 30 maybe, but not top 10. I think to have Haye ahead of Froch even after a Wladimir defeat would be very biased towards Haye.

Froch has ONE world title fight and beats a guy who's hardly world class, then luckily beats a blown up middleweight after being outclassed for the first 35 minutes and 46 seconds !

Froch was not outclassed for the first 35 mins 46 secs. Froch was competetive with Taylor throughout the fight and was very close on the consensus scorecard after 11 rounds.

Pascal will prove himself to be world class. Great fighter. Top chin and can bang as well. Plenty of heart. Put him in against Bute for an all "Canadian" bust up.

[TheGoods]

"Joe Calzaghe says there is no chance of him coming out of retirement to fight WBC super-middleweight king Carl Froch.

Nottingham's Froch renewed his long and bitter pursuit of 37-year-old Calzaghe after Saturday's stunning 12th-round win over Jermain Taylor in Connecticut.

But Newbridge's Calzaghe, who ended his stellar, unbeaten career in February, says he was unimpressed by Froch, 31.

"I wouldn't fight the guy even if I did come out of retirement, which I won't do," he told the South Wales Argus.

If Calzaghe is at one then I demand Terry Marsh is considered for a top 15 spot next month. Never lost his belt in the ring and even though he says he has retired, like Calzaghe, can we really take him at his word?

[banjo]

Ahh but Marsh can never fight professionally again, he lost his licence due to medical reasons.

[Horse]

Like I said to Coco, I try to respond to posts in chronological order. I have now responded to that post.

OK.

What do you consider a significant period of time?

9 months or more.

[Horse]

I think it's far better to take their word for it rather than predict the future.

If he doesn't come back then I can take him out later.

[Horse]

You haven't given any justifiable reason for Froch to stay ahead of Haye.

You didn't ask me to give you justifiable reasons, although I think I have given you some.

Frocvh was four rounds down going into the last round on two scorecards, wasn't really that close or competative.

I didn't agree with those judges and neither did the other judge who scored it for Froch.

If we're talking in the last year Hatton shouldn't be so high. And what has Enzo Mac done (much as i like him)

If I was just taking into account the last 12 months then Hatton would probably be second behind Froch. Which British or Irish fighters do you think have actually done more than Hatton in that period of time?

Maccarinelli would be a lot lower if only the last 12 months were counted, but luckily for him that is not the case.

These rankings are a joke.

You disagree with one of my decisions, so you now think my rankings are a joke? A bit of a silly reaction in my opinion.

[Dioufy]

I agree with Finch, Haye has done more.

Haye has done more, but Froch has done more recently. In the last 12 months Haye has only beaten Barrett. Froch's win over Taylor is better than any single win that Haye has in my opinion, and I think he should be rewarded for that ranking wise.

I think Haye's win over Mormeck was exactly the same as Froch's win over Taylor - Froch was slight favourite Vs Taylor, whereas Haye was 11/10 against Mormeck. Plus Haye has done more either side of his best win against Mormeck. I think he should be 3rd.

But I respect your list.

[Horse]

I always read this thread, I'm not sure why, because it always same.

The British Top 30 P4P has changed every single month since it started 3 years ago. It is not always the same.

[Horse]

Pascal will prove himself to be world class. Great fighter. Top chin and can bang as well. Plenty of heart. Put him in against Bute for an all "Canadian" bust up.

If he beats Diaconu for the WBC light heavyweight title, would he want to come back down to super middleweight?

[forcefraser]

Pascal will prove himself to be world class. Great fighter. Top chin and can bang as well. Plenty of heart. Put him in against Bute for an all "Canadian" bust up.

If he beats Diaconu for the WBC light heavyweight title, would he want to come back down to super middleweight?

I think he will beat Diaconu. Tough fight but I reckon he will win it. The problem with the light heavyweight division is Tavoris Cloud. It would be wise to move back down if Cloud becomes his mandatory.

[Horse]

If Calzaghe is at one then I demand Terry Marsh is considered for a top 15 spot next month. Never lost his belt in the ring and even though he says he has retired, like Calzaghe, can we really take him at his word?

I have now considered entering Terry Marsh next month and have decided against it.

Terry Marsh has not fought for over 20 years. If you genuinely think Terry Marsh should be considered a top 15 P4P fighter in Britain then you are a fool.

The Calzaghe and Marsh situations are completely different as Calzaghe has only been out of the ring for about 6 months. If Calzaghe came back he would still be able to compete with the best, which is highly unlikely to be the case for Marsh if he came back.

[Horse]

Ahh but Marsh can never fight professionally again, he lost his licence due to medical reasons.

That is another reason he shouldn't be ranked.

[Flav1]

I always read this thread, I'm not sure why, because it always same.

The British Top 30 P4P has changed every single month since it started 3 years ago. It is not always the same.

Not so much your rankings mate, more the reaction to them and the abuse you get. Why do you do it?