Hatton DID Have Serious Problems at the Weight merged

[Spud]

Another mistake in my opinion from Team Hatton was allowing Kerry Kayes to leave the camp a while back - I have spoken to Kerry at length on a couple of occasions and I am completely and utterly stunned Kayes was not begged to stay!!! - not only did Kayes bring his outstanding expertise to Hatton - in addition he bought the person Kerry Kayes which might be silly thing to state - but whilst others in the team flapped like f*ck that their postions were being threatened - Kayes brought much needed professionalism but even more important a lot of humour to the camp.

For me amongst some of the errors - one big serious complete and utter f*ck up on Team Hatton was no longing insisting Kayes was part of the camp!!!

From what I understand, Spud, it wasn't their choice?

In my most humble opinion they did not do a lot to persuade Kerry Kayes to stay!!!

[hitman09]

What an eloquent and witty riposte!

Anything else would have been over your head.

I notice you did not object to your obmission from the list of posters with brains. It is good that you are not in denial about your lack of intellect.

[hurlock]

Ricky was overtrained.

It don't take a genius to see in the weeks leading up to the fight itself, that he was way below his usual weight for a Light welterweight bout.

I'm sure any pro here, who's got experience of prep will tell you that, the number on the scales aside, if you crush your body in the lead up to a fight, it can leave you mentally and physically perished.

It was written on his face and on his physique.

come on the guy's nearlly had 50 pro fights numerous camps,he's a joke how he goe's round eating drinking & doing after dinner speaking b4 fights,enjoying his career while its still going.i deffo know he's plenty more capable of giving the guy a hard fight,but manny is a league above regardless.
hatton has roar naturall freaky strength & stamina,but has abused it by thinking ive done nothing then booze & pig out with the odd ciggy but will get myself ready in 10weeks for the worlds very best.

[Collins2000]

So it was weight and the training camp problems that caused Hatton to lose.

At this rate I think we could make a case to say he actually won. Manny should grant a rematch at the very least.

[Collins2000]

Ricky was overtrained.

It don't take a genius to see in the weeks leading up to the fight itself, that he was way below his usual weight for a Light welterweight bout.

I'm sure any pro here, who's got experience of prep will tell you that, the number on the scales aside, if you crush your body in the lead up to a fight, it can leave you mentally and physically perished.

It was written on his face and on his physique.

come on the guy's nearlly had 50 pro fights numerous camps,he's a joke how he goe's round eating drinking & doing after dinner speaking b4 fights,enjoying his career while its still going.i deffo know he's plenty more capable of giving the guy a hard fight,but manny is a league above regardless.
hatton has roar naturall freaky strength & stamina,but has abused it by thinking ive done nothing then booze & pig out with the odd ciggy but will get myself ready in 10weeks for the worlds very best.

Is that true that Hatton smokes?

[TJAY]

Kerry Kayes was in both Joe Murrays & Mathew Hattons corner Saturday night.

[states]

Is that true that Hatton smokes?

Not as far as I'm aware. I seem to remember a photo with him holding a fag, but I think that was Billy Graham's.

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

remember in Kerry Kayes he had a professional nutrionist who as Carbo said would never dehydrate him

gibberish, pure, pure gibberish


So under Kayes he wasnt dehydrated to make weight?

So what was that 14 pounds he put on between the weigh in and fight for Tysu, then?


A fighter being dehydrated to make weight?


blimey! whats next?

[Grilling Machine]

I've always been surprised that he found 140 so hard to make, given his height and frame.

Anyway, if Ricky had gone 12 rounds with the guy he would've destroyed him.

[Carbo]

remember in Kerry Kayes he had a professional nutrionist who as Carbo said would never dehydrate him

gibberish, pure, pure gibberish


So under Kayes he wasnt dehydrated to make weight?

So what was that 14 pounds he put on between the weigh in and fight for Tysu, then?


A fighter being dehydrated to make weight?


blimey! whats next?

Not sure. Kayes said he never dehydrated him. Surely, he just deprived him of carbs for days in the run up to weigh in to bring him down to 140, and then fed them back in to take him over...

[oliverfennell]

If Hatton comes back as a welter and blames this loss on weight-making, it will make a mockery of his mantra about light-welter being his "natural" division and only losing to welters because they were too big for him.

I have always felt the loss to Mayweather and struggle with Collazo were more to do with the styles than the weight. After all, 7lb is not THAT much of a difference, especially for a guy who turned pro as a light welter at 18 - 12 years ago! It's natural and virtually inevitable he will have grown in that time, but he backed himself into a corner by always going on about welter being too big for him.

[DG.]

What an eloquent and witty riposte!

Anything else would have been over your head.

I notice you did not object to your obmission from the list of posters with brains. It is good that you are not in denial about your lack of intellect.

Object?

A Simpleton (you) makes a list and I am supposed to object to not being on it?

Listen 'dumbo' my 'perceived' lack of intellect has not stopped me doing quite well for myself, thank you very much.

Its a forum, quick few lines then out, some posters like to wrote novels, but I see no need to do that.

Do you work? What do you do? Live with Mummy? Own your own home? Drive? Walk? Busk?

All irelevant, but just showing you that you know nothing about me, and I know nothing about you other than you are dumb.

[DG.]

If Hatton comes back as a welter and blames this loss on weight-making, it will make a mockery of his mantra about light-welter being his "natural" division and only losing to welters because they were too big for him.

I have always felt the loss to Mayweather and struggle with Collazo were more to do with the styles than the weight. After all, 7lb is not THAT much of a difference, especially for a guy who turned pro as a light welter at 18 - 12 years ago! It's natural and virtually inevitable he will have grown in that time, but he backed himself into a corner by always going on about welter being too big for him.

Never forget that he has outweoghted EEVERY opponent on fight night.

He is a welter -but they hit harder and likkle Ricky does not want to give up any advantage he may have.

Hatton's a Welter, has been for years.

Its funny how his 'victims' never bring up the fact they were Supefeathers and lightweights when Ricky beats them.

Hypocrite.

[hurlock]

it's unhealthy to do, kayes just knows how to do it with better precaution as weight lifters are known to cut loads, but its for looks not performance.
like i said its very unhealthy & you can only go to the well so many times,& i believe hattons well has been dry for somtime & it's a massive shock to his body eachtime he goes in a camp 10yrs of it along old strech.

[don't call it a comeback]

remember in Kerry Kayes he had a professional nutrionist who as Carbo said would never dehydrate him

gibberish, pure, pure gibberish


So under Kayes he wasnt dehydrated to make weight?

So what was that 14 pounds he put on between the weigh in and fight for Tysu, then?


A fighter being dehydrated to make weight?


blimey! whats next?

I don't think it is gibberish. Kayes has always claimed that his fighters are kept very hydrated. And water is one thing that he does not starve them of as they train. Its pretty measurable.

I believe Kayes' main point was that Ricky had lost muscle and gained fat - that too is measurable although presumably Kerry is just going by visual aids.

[Carbo]

Kayes' fighters are always hydrated at the weight, they can vouch for that, it may not be enough to placate KG, but they can speak up for Kayes on that issue.. The 12lb Hatton put on for this fight will not have been put on in the same way as his 14lb was put on when working with Kayes. See BBN interview with Kayes/Graham for quotes on this, cannot post it as it will get classed as spam.

That's a really great interview, Terry. Genuinely excellent. I supposed Graham sin't exactly difficult to get good copy from, though -- right?

Anyway, Graham is 100% pure class and, in my opinion, right in 95% of what he says. He does overrate Ricky a bit much, but he's right in almost everything else.

Any you know what? The way he's handled himself after the split is something that very few could do. I'm not sure I'd have put up with Mayweather slagging me every time a camera was near. Really. To not come back with something is impressive.

[dondada]

Any you know what? The way he's handled himself after the split is something that very few could do. I'm not sure I'd have put up with Mayweather slagging me every time a camera was near. Really. To not come back with something is impressive.

Agree 100%. Especially as Mayweather was so vitriolic AND making a complete arsehole of himself every time he opened his mouth. Would have been easy to shoot him down (I know we're talking Manchester here so I don't mean this literally).

[don't call it a comeback]

[quote="Terry D Floyd was so wrong for Ricky, those who brought him in should be sacked for services against Hatton's boxing ability.[/quote]

Hmmm, those who brought him in might be urging Ricky to continue with an enhanced role for themselves...

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

Kayes' fighters are always hydrated at the weight, they can vouch for that, it may not be enough to placate KG, but they can speak up for Kayes on that issue.. The 12lb Hatton put on for this fight will not have been put on in the same way as his 14lb was put on when working with Kayes. See BBN interview with Kayes/Graham for quotes on this, cannot post it as it will get classed as spam.

Terry it seems like your having a breakdown with all theses excuses, Ricky was just up against a stylistic nightmare and an elite 1 at that. I read the Billy Graham interview and he makes some valid points and makes up a load of excuses, blames Ricky's conditioning, Mayweather's practises and being a massive Ricky fan.

What Graham neglects to mention is that any version of Ricky Hatton would have been ko'd against Pacquaio. He always lunged in with hands down, he always threw wide shots that were there to be countered and he always had a leaky defense. Graham claims Hatton's punch resistance declined, but he got ko'd by the best hayemaker I've seen the Pacman throw after shipping about 80shots in 2rounds. Ricky was on jelly legs against Tackie, Collazo, Mayweather and to a lesser extent Phillips and Tyszu. None of them hit him as frequently and savagely as Pacquaio did. In terms of him being past his best and losing his punch resistance though, thats just another excuse.

Pacquaio would have always beat him to the punch and would always counter him and would always land his best shots.

As for being hydrated, they'll keep the water intake high until the last day, bang in a few natural diuretics while reducing water consumption and the water weight will be pissed out. In the last few weeks carbs will be depleted and protein will be ramped up. But are you telling me Ricky has never looked drained on the scales?

Ricky probably wasn't at his best bodyfat percentage wise and he would have done better if he'd wrestled, Billy is right on those points. But an extra 3lbs of muscle mass wouldn't have saved Ricky from being ko'd. What Billy forgets to mention is all the conditioning/weights training he had Ricky doing takes away from a fighters boxing specific ability, ie lifting weights especially the type Kayes/Graham had him doing aren't the best for punching/boxing ability and build different muscles. Punching a bodybag that doesn't punch back is going to make you used to not picking your shots and will make the fighter poor defensively despite being great for stamina.

[Deserter]

Kayes' fighters are always hydrated at the weight, they can vouch for that, it may not be enough to placate KG, but they can speak up for Kayes on that issue.. The 12lb Hatton put on for this fight will not have been put on in the same way as his 14lb was put on when working with Kayes. See BBN interview with Kayes/Graham for quotes on this, cannot post it as it will get classed as spam.

Terry it seems like your having a breakdown with all theses excuses, Ricky was just up against a stylistic nightmare and an elite 1 at that. I read the Billy Graham interview and he makes some valid points and makes up a load of excuses, blames Ricky's conditioning, Mayweather's practises and being a massive Ricky fan.

What Graham neglects to mention is that any version of Ricky Hatton would have been ko'd against Pacquaio. He always lunged in with hands down, he always threw wide shots that were there to be countered and he always had a leaky defense. Graham claims Hatton's punch resistance declined, but he got ko'd by the best hayemaker I've seen the Pacman throw after shipping about 80shots in 2rounds. Ricky was on jelly legs against Tackie, Collazo, Mayweather and to a lesser extent Phillips and Tyszu. None of them hit him as frequently and savagely as Pacquaio did. In terms of him being past his best and losing his punch resistance though, thats just another excuse.

Pacquaio would have always beat him to the punch and would always counter him and would always land his best shots.

As for being hydrated, they'll keep the water intake high until the last day, bang in a few natural diuretics while reducing water consumption and the water weight will be pissed out. In the last few weeks carbs will be depleted and protein will be ramped up. But are you telling me Ricky has never looked drained on the scales?

Ricky probably wasn't at his best bodyfat percentage wise and he would have done better if he'd wrestled, Billy is right on those points. But an extra 3lbs of muscle mass wouldn't have saved Ricky from being ko'd. What Billy forgets to mention is all the conditioning/weights training he had Ricky doing takes away from a fighters boxing specific ability, ie lifting weights especially the type Kayes/Graham had him doing aren't the best for punching/boxing ability and build different muscles. Punching a bodybag that doesn't punch back is going to make you used to not picking your shots and will make the fighter poor defensively despite being great for stamina.

Breakdown/ I am not making excuses, he looked terrible on the scales, you should be able to see that.

That first knockdown was not a huge shot, and I defy you to claim that he looked like it was a shot that he should not recover from. Granted, Manny had style advantages, but if you cannot see that Hatton looked poor on the scales, well I suggest that you change your user name.

Have I ever seen Hatton look that poor on the scales? Evidently not, as I make this point in the article. It was poor a condition, and the rumours on another thread point to him being dehydrated, and I know he hit the sauna, heavily, to make the weight for Paulie, it is all very old-fashioned.

It is there for anyone to see, perhaps the fact that you run a nutritional firm, banged on about how good Floyd would be for bringing in technique (which actually looked to have deteriorated) and generally boosted Floyd, means that you are looking to make the odd excuse.

Kerry and Billy have a track record for bringing athletes in on the weight, Kerry works with a healthy cross-section of athletes, you talk about nutrition on a forum, no offence but I am more inclined to pay attention to their side of things, as they have made a consistent success of it.

No excuses, but any fool could see that the condition was poor, and the technique was also poor. Floyd was a liability.

Oh, it is not just a case of saying it is about the 3lb of extra mass, they are saying that the weight he put on was poor weight, and that there is a way of doing this type of thing, it was not about volume of weight increase, it is about quality.

At the risk of sounding harsh, as interesting as this mini-debate is, it's all surely... well, pointless. The bottom line here is that I've yet to see anyone state a convincing case that the outcome on Saturday night could have been anything other than a Pacman KO, regardless of which version of Ricky entered the ring. He may have lasted longer, but Manny's blistering handspeed, combination punching and timing, which were all astounding, would have signalled the demise of a peak Ricky Hatton, let alone the version that turned up on Saturday.

[don't call it a comeback]

[.

There is a point to this debate but its not the one you aim yourself at. The point being, how well prepared, organised and coherent is the hatton set-up at the moment? This is a point as relevant to the next fight (if there is one) as to the last one.

[Deserter]

[.

There is a point to this debate but its not the one you aim yourself at. The point being, how well prepared, organised and coherent is the hatton set-up at the moment? This is a point as relevant to the next fight (if there is one) as to the last one.

Wasn't particularly relevant to the last fight, as ultimate outcome would have been the same regardless and seems incredibly premature and speculative given the ambiguity surrounding his future if that's your angle...

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

Kayes' fighters are always hydrated at the weight, they can vouch for that, it may not be enough to placate KG, but they can speak up for Kayes on that issue.. The 12lb Hatton put on for this fight will not have been put on in the same way as his 14lb was put on when working with Kayes. See BBN interview with Kayes/Graham for quotes on this, cannot post it as it will get classed as spam.

Terry it seems like your having a breakdown with all theses excuses, Ricky was just up against a stylistic nightmare and an elite 1 at that. I read the Billy Graham interview and he makes some valid points and makes up a load of excuses, blames Ricky's conditioning, Mayweather's practises and being a massive Ricky fan.

What Graham neglects to mention is that any version of Ricky Hatton would have been ko'd against Pacquaio. He always lunged in with hands down, he always threw wide shots that were there to be countered and he always had a leaky defense. Graham claims Hatton's punch resistance declined, but he got ko'd by the best hayemaker I've seen the Pacman throw after shipping about 80shots in 2rounds. Ricky was on jelly legs against Tackie, Collazo, Mayweather and to a lesser extent Phillips and Tyszu. None of them hit him as frequently and savagely as Pacquaio did. In terms of him being past his best and losing his punch resistance though, thats just another excuse.

Pacquaio would have always beat him to the punch and would always counter him and would always land his best shots.

As for being hydrated, they'll keep the water intake high until the last day, bang in a few natural diuretics while reducing water consumption and the water weight will be pissed out. In the last few weeks carbs will be depleted and protein will be ramped up. But are you telling me Ricky has never looked drained on the scales?

Ricky probably wasn't at his best bodyfat percentage wise and he would have done better if he'd wrestled, Billy is right on those points. But an extra 3lbs of muscle mass wouldn't have saved Ricky from being ko'd. What Billy forgets to mention is all the conditioning/weights training he had Ricky doing takes away from a fighters boxing specific ability, ie lifting weights especially the type Kayes/Graham had him doing aren't the best for punching/boxing ability and build different muscles. Punching a bodybag that doesn't punch back is going to make you used to not picking your shots and will make the fighter poor defensively despite being great for stamina.

Breakdown/ I am not making excuses, he looked terrible on the scales, you should be able to see that.

That first knockdown was not a huge shot, and I defy you to claim that he looked like it was a shot that he should not recover from. Granted, Manny had style advantages, but if you cannot see that Hatton looked poor on the scales, well I suggest that you change your user name.

Have I ever seen Hatton look that poor on the scales? Evidently not, as I make this point in the article. It was poor a condition, and the rumours on another thread point to him being dehydrated, and I know he hit the sauna, heavily, to make the weight for Paulie, it is all very old-fashioned.

Kerry and Billy have a track record for bringing athletes in on the weight, Kerry works with a healthy cross-section of athletes, no offence but I am more inclined to pay attention to their side of things, as they have made a consistent success of it.

No excuses, but any fool could see that the condition was poor, and the technique was also poor. Floyd was a liability.

Oh, it is not just a case of saying it is about the 3lb of extra mass, they are saying that the weight he put on was poor weight, and that there is a way of doing this type of thing, it was not about volume of weight increase, it is about quality.

What Hatton did really didn't matter imo because Manny is still such a physical beast at 140lbs, a very fast starter and against a come forward fighter with openings, its just bread and butter for him. If Marquez had been stopped in round 1 he'd be a footnote now himself.

As for the first KD, no it didn't have as much on it but neither did the Maggee KD, Hatton was peppered and was off balance. The early KDs and shots hurt him but the final punch was MASSIVE, Manny couldn't have thrown a bigger punch on a heavybag and if you've boxed you know how hard it is to land your biggest shots on a moving opponent. Manny hasn't ever hit an opponent that hard before imo and most at 140 wouldn;t take it, maybe that human buffallo beast URango would

I thought Ricky's variety, jab, strength and inside work might work but still thought Manny would edge it in a war of a backburner. But Hatton's jab and lead hook were picked apart and countered and he never kept it inside, no slight physical would change that imo, but everyone has their opinions.

And when were talking about conditioning look at the man in front of him, Manny may weigh 'only' 147 on fight night but he must have 5% bodyfat or less, hes a monster himself and his muscle is more boxing specific

Ricky needed to make it an inside fight, he wouldn't have won even if he tried to keep it inside but it would have gone on longer.

I don't think Floyd is a bad trainer, he just couldn't make Hatton into 'Slick Rick' and its not his fault Ricky wouldn't do as told, ie 'Don't lunge in, keep your hands up'. Hatton may do a bit better with Graham/Kayes, but it could easily be the same result

I used to be a Hatton hater in the past but came to appreciate his style just as the ride was coming to an end. Manny did him, but you probably remember I picked Tyszu to expose Hatton and that never happened

[hitman09]

I notice you did not object to your obmission from the list of posters with brains. It is good that you are not in denial about your lack of intellect.

Object?

A Simpleton (you) makes a list and I am supposed to object to not being on it?

Listen 'dumbo' my 'perceived' lack of intellect has not stopped me doing quite well for myself, thank you very much.

Its a forum, quick few lines then out, some posters like to wrote novels, but I see no need to do that.

Do you work? What do you do? Live with Mummy? Own your own home? Drive? Walk? Busk?

All irelevant, but just showing you that you know nothing about me, and I know nothing about you other than you are dumb.

There, that was a much better comeback. I may not be giving you enough credit. Your IQ may be in double figures after all. perhaps that's stretching it a bit

[gobbles]

What the hell has whether he was properly hydrated or not got to do with what happened?

He got smashed inside two rounds, had he run out of steam later on, maybe it would have made a difference. Hatton couldn't cope with Pacquiao's speed, nor his southpaw style.

As for Billy Graham, he is absolutely detested by Hatton. If there ever had been any hope that Hatton and Graham could patch up some sort of relationship, that ended when Graham went to the Malignaggi fight and spent the entire week getting pissed in the MGM Grand bar and shouting his mouth off to the media. And then, the week before Hatton-Pacquiao, he starts suing Hatton. What a pal he is. The only person Billy Graham is interested in is Billy Graham.

Graham can shout his mouth off to friendly websites all he wants, but it was Hatton that made Graham, not the other way round.